However, I am basing much of my imagined 4e setting on FR lore, so I felt it was okay to bring up the first part of it here (and besides, I like the people here better - even the ones I disagree with). :D
For the Elves of my Sundered Realms Campaign (or Abeir-Toril 1610, to use Charles' euphamism), I wanted them more the way I play Elves - darker, and more mysterious. I like some of what Eberron has done, but I don't want to copy that (or anything, for that matter). I also like Michael Moorcock's Melnibonéans, which ar not really Elves, per se.
So, I decided to 'break them up', just like 4e has done. You have the classic 'Woodland' variety, who are very much like the Elves of Mirkwood (or FR woods, like the Forest of Amtar), where they would just as soon put an arrow through an intruder as look at them. Their city(ies?) will be well-hidden, and only rumour to humans.
As for Drow, I'm thinking of splitting them up. For personality, I'd like a wretched Island Empire heavily in decline, very much like the Melnibonéans or the Undying Court from Eberron. However, these will be my 4th edition Eladrin - decadent and Haughty... and on their way out. As for Elves that that are more like Drow from the 'locale' POV, I'm going to go with Albino Elves living undergroung, like Ed's originals, or Mystara's.
So, my Eladrin will act more 'Drowish', and the Drow (which I will rename) will be secretive skulkers from the Underdark - not really evil, but more like amorally neutral to other races. Also, all three groups will be extremely uncommon in human lands (pretty much only PCs, or the occasional important NPC).
If I do Avarials and Lythari, I'm thinking about going with some of the stuff from Elfquest - with Wolfriders, and a group of birdlike 'Elders'. Still not sure if I'll even go with that, though. I can just as easily use Raptorans in that role, and shapechanging Kender for the Lythari/Wolfriders.
I like the Kender as Wolfriders, and perhaps using the Dino-riders from Eberron as my halflings (at least one group), but thats food for another thread.
So, what does anyone else think? If you were to re-imagine the Elves from the very beginning, how would you do them? I'm looking for any and all ideas for my 4e world - that means using all the 4e rules, but changing up most of the flavor.
-...
-But, anyway, looks good to me, for your own campaign. I don't particularly understand or agree with the "seperation" of the Elves and their subraces, but whatever.
-Unearthed Arcana, and a DRAGON Magazine issue that currently escapes me has rules about adding those extraneous templates to creatures- Jungle, Plains, Mountain, Aquatic, whatever- so that could be useful. I'm currently going to be using those in my own campaign setting, on Halflings. I am envisioning an underground Halfling city inhabited by deevolved Halflings very much like Gollum, using tips from those two sources, as well as info I have on those evil Halflings in the Book of Vile Darkness from DRAGON 300.
I'll take notes because I also want to create my own world and, as though influenced by Greenwood's Realms, it will not be gonna set in Faerûn. I'm going to make it with my players. I have an upcoming pantheon already going to be finished very soon and I hope to share it with you, guys.
-I laugh in your general direction.
*snort!*
Anyway, yeah, I think what you're doing is fine, Markus.
I haven't really thought much about how *I* would reimagine elves, though.The Wood Elves may have a few good types, that try to get along with others (think Legolas), but still think they are better then them (some feel 'magnanimous'). Those are the ones I'm thinking will mostly be for PCs, similar to how Elves were in 1e.
I toyed with the idea of Snow Elves, but it feels forced to me - if I wind up with something that is a good fit, I'll use them, but I don't want to use them just for the sake of using them (like 4e FR Dragonborn :yuck
.Subterranean Gollum-like Halflings? Aren't those Goblins? :P
If I use 'devolved' Halflings at all, I might go with something like Athasian Halflings (cannibals). Man-Eating Hobbits are always good for a laugh... just before they tear you limb from limb. I'm thinking of putting them in the same general area as the Dino-riders, but in Mountains surrounding the plains-region the Dino-riders are from (making them enemies). Perhaps I'll stick my Lythari-Kender (Kendari?) somewhere around there as well, either in an 'Outlands' type remote region, or on a seperate sub-continent. We'll see...
Right now I'm just working up what I would want to do, and like everything else I decide, its all subject to change at a moments notice. ;)
Thanks for your input, guys.
Markus, let me congratulate you for making your own 4e setting. I'm being intrigued for all these "creative inspirations" all those who do not like the new "worlds" of 4e (including myself) are going to make.
Thanks. I'm looking foprward to reading whatever you come up with.
My world is going to be loosely based on Ed's as well, and have human Kingdoms very similar to the ones found there (without all the redundancy the Realms suffered from). I'l definately have my Cormyr, and waterdeep/Sharn (Shardeep?), and Thay/Stygia, etc...
But I will have ONLY ONE area where Middle-Eastern type nations exist!!! It'll be a combination of Zakhara, Warhammer Tomb Kings, Mulhorand/Egypt, and Athas (with perhaps a dash of Tatooine and pinch of Arrakis thrrown in).
1) Maydarin (Moon)- Open to other races, admire humanity's lust for life. Have adopted many human customs. Though are still protective of the old or "true" ways.
2) Taydarin (Sun)- A mixture of the Elves of Evermeet and Lothlorien, isolationistic. Master sailors.
3) Eridarin (Aquatic) - Little contact with surface elves other than Taydarin. Though generally cautiously friendly.
4) Syndarin (Green)- Wood elves, reclusive, protective, violent to non-elven races
5) Maydarin (Drow) - A mix of all but the Eridarin, "seduced" to the darkside (so to speak) by the Goddess of Shadows. Infused with a bit of "shadowstuff". They are not shades, but their skin has a dusky/shadowy hue.
I completely forgot about the Winged Elves, I may need to add those.
What I'm shooting for (and obviously Karsus got) was that there are no 'good' Elves... not that any of them are truly 'evil', either.
-You don't really need to 'deconstruct' things to get that effect, just so you know. I mean, Elves are "Usually Chaotic Good". There will always be a Elaith Craulnober, a Kymil Nimesin, and a Drizzt Do'Urden in every crowd.
If I use 'devolved' Halflings at all, I might go with something like Athasian Halflings (cannibals).
-That's what the Halflings in the BoVD that I was citing are like (Jerren, I think they are called in DRAGON 300).
-You don't really need to 'deconstruct' things to get that effect, just so you know. I mean, Elves are "Usually Chaotic Good". There will always be a Elaith Craulnober, a Kymil Nimesin, and a Drizzt Do'Urden in every crowd.
I find it hilarious that Drizzt wound up in the company of Elaith and Kymil, there.
I agree with your main point, too.
I find it hilarious that Drizzt wound up in the company of Elaith and Kymil, there.
-Just trying to point out the 'oddities' in the group. Drizzt is an obvious one, but actually, he came to mind as an afterthought, ironically.
I probably won't go with Sea Elves; I find them rather redundant. I'll probably use Tritons and have them as 'cousins of the Elves' - that sort of thing. I'll also use Merfolk and some 'ugly' race, most likely Sahuagin, to round out my undersea. I personlly thought there was too much going on under the waves in Faerûn - after I 'color-coded' my copy of GHotR, there were entire pages of blue entries - none of which I'll ever use (nor do most people, I'm sure).
I do plan on having several races that live on the Sea however, including the Beiy’maar I invented in the Kara-Tur thread, and used in my CK article. They have pointed ears as well (swept back and bat-like), so they take the place of the Sea Elves (both Aquatic and Tolkien - they breath air but can stay under water for incredible lengths of time). They are similar to gypsies culturally and literally live on their ships, and it is rumoured that they have a 'floating capital' hidden somewhere (A city of ships lashed together).
I suppose if someone wanted to, both the Tritons and Beiy’maar could be considered Elven 'sub-races', but I consider them seperate altogether (In FR K-T, I have them as decendents of the Maraloi, who were themselves decendents of the original Fey). It depends on how you view subraces, I suppose. Since I personally consider ALL Elf and Fey races as subraces of the original Fey (Le'Shay), the lines get a bit blurred.
So the only Elves that are called Elves by humans would be the Sylvan variety - they would call themselves something different, and the Dwarves would have yet another name for them (equating to 'Tree-Huggers' in Auld Dwarvish). As far as anyone knows, ther is no relationship between the 'Maeladrin' (working race name, subject to change), and the Elves, aside from a simiar outward appearance (like Vulcans and Romulans).
I toyed with the idea of a Half-Elven race, but I decided not to. Players can still have them, but they will be incredibly rare (and ONLY PCs and special NPCs). Considering the Elvish attitude toward humans, you can see how this would be fairly unheard of.
In fact, I'm even considering a storyline where humans, either in the distant past or barabarians, raided Elven Forests and 'made off with' Elven maidens, or just 'had their way with them'. Since Elves revere ALL Elven life, they would be forced to accept and raise such a child until adulthood... but then they would 'kick them out' and have nothing further to do with them. Thatr would leave almost all Half-Elves very bitter, and not a few of them would probably seek revenge against their human parent (who could very possibly already have died of old-age by then). Its sort of like how people pictured Half-Orcs coming about, except this time its the Elves.
For Half-Orcs, I decided to use the FR name Ondanti (I like them a lot). They will only be Half-Orcs mechanically and appearance-wise, otherwise they will just be a more peaceful, slightly 'better looking' Orc. If a player wants to run a true Half-Orc, it would be possible, but everyone would just take him for an Ondanti. I'm also going to have at least four other Orcish sub-races, who don't all get along. However, I will have seperate name for them, and for the race as a whole. Bugbears will become my 'Black Orcs' - large and brutal. Grey Orcs will be D&D Hobgoblins, Reds will be something new (smaller, maybe 5', and more like rogues - very wirey). The Green Orcs will be your standard garden-variety D&D Orc - mean-spirited barbarians, but not neccessarily evil, just VERY territorial. The Greys will have their own Kingdom, anmd attempt to 'get along' with their neighbors (which doesn't really work out to often).
@LK - My 'Maeladrin' will be very much like Craulnober, with a few 'Nimesans' thrown in (the ones that don't just ignore the other races, they try to use/enslave/destroy them). Picture Myth Drannor at its height, with them thinking the other races are little more then beasts, with some going out of their way to hurt them (but not all) - I like the way Ed portrayed MD in his Elminster novel, and I'm going to run with that (more dark though, or 'Gothic'). The Drow (I need a new name for them) will be like Drizzt in abilities, but like Jarlaxle in personality - completely self-serving, but not above 'honor' (they would honor the letter of an agreement, but not neccessarily the intent). WoodElves wouldn't be like any of the FR archtypes I can think of - more like Legolas with an attitude. Maybe like those Elves from Shilmista (Grugach Elves?).
The 'Little People' up next.
As in: they all dervied from various sorts of fey via evolution, rather than a racial split here or there. While they do look very much like one another (elven races that is) and some may have developed certain traits (e.g. say the race "green elves" split into wood and wild elves), the basic fey creatures they came from lent a few special features, like the drow's SR, SLAs or darkvision. Not that many (or any) of the current fey have those, but since they achieved this by evolution rather than some magical spell or something, there is a touch more logic behind it. (You know, what do we know about the fey creatures of 250,000 years ago?)
Beiy’maar I invented in the Kara-Tur thread, and used in my CK article. They have pointed ears as well (swept back and bat-like), so they take the place of the Sea Elves (both Aquatic and Tolkien - they breath air but can stay under water for incredible lengths of time). They are similar to gypsies culturally and literally live on their ships, and it is rumoured that they have a 'floating capital' hidden somewhere (A city of ships lashed together).
I've always liked the idea of a race or ethnic group functioning as a somewhat devil-may-care nomadic society, so these Beiy'maar sound awesome. [I made the Gnomes of my Scarred Lands game into nomads that travelled in brightly colored wagons that had removable wheels and also served as boats, but Elves as pseudo-pirates is just too cool!]
It depends on how you view subraces, I suppose. Since I personally consider ALL Elkf and Fey races as subraces of the original Fey (Le'Shay), the lines get a bit blurred.
I went a step further, and gave the Elves, Gnomes and Goblinoids (Bugbear, Hobgoblin and Goblin) some Fey heritage (seelie for some, unseelie for others). The Halflings I left up in the air. The Dwarves, Humans and Orcs were very much earthly beings.
So the only Elves that are called Elves by humans would be the Sylvan variety - they would call themselves something different, and the Dwarves would have yet another name for them (equating to 'Tree-Huggers' in Auld Dwarvish). As far as anyone knows, ther is no relationship between the 'Maeladrin' (working race name, subhiect to change), and the Elves, aside from a simiar outward appearance (like Vulcans and Romulans).
Based off of fey stories and their chaotic nature, I ran a few games set in a version of the Realms where the elves were 'the people under the hill' to humans, with a near-alien mentality. Their emotions were grossly exaggerated by human standards, and an elf who was laughing with you one moment might take offense and try to chop your head off the next. Whether he succeeds or fails, once his rage subsides, he might fall to the ground in tears, or go back to laughing (with good or evil alignment being a deciding factor here). Hard to say. Elves were fickle, and as dangerous as sharks to be around, and many elves regarded life itself as a waking dream with no consequences, and the 'earthly races' as being transient creatures at best, whose deaths and concerns were fleeting and unimportant matters of no interest.
Half-elves were called 'elf-blooded' or 'feytouched' and had the normal stats, being the result of elven wanderers falling passionately and madly (and sometimes destructively...) in love with humans, which, given elven natures, rarely lasted in any sort of stable family structure, as the elf is as likely as not to wake up 'not in love anymore' the next morning.
The name 'half-elf' or 'half-breed' might be derisively used by some humans, but since the so-called 'full elves' are no more than watered-down fey, having lost much of their fey heritage and supernatural nature due to many generations of walking the prime and interbreeding with the earthly races, there really is no such thing as a 'half-breed,' given that the most pure of 'elves' is really nothing more than an earthly humanoid with a touch of fey heritage...
For Half-Orcs, I decided to use the FR name Ondanti (I like them a lot). They will only be Half-Orcs mechanically and appearance-wise, otherwise they will just be a more peaceful, slightly 'better looking' Orc. If a player wants to run a true Half-Orc, it would be possible, but everyone would just take him for an Ondanti. I'm also going to have at least four other Orcish sub-races, who don't all get along. However, I will have seperate name for them, and for the race as a whole. Bugbears will become my 'Black Orcs' - large and brutal. Grey Orcs will be D&D Hobgoblins, Reds will be something new (smaller, maybe 5', and more like rogues - very wirey). The Green Orcs will be your standard garden-variety D&D Orc - mean-spirited barbarians, but not neccessarily evil, just VERY territorial. The Greys will have their own Kingdom, anmd attempt to 'get along' with their neighbors (which doesn't really work out to often).
Working Bugbears, Hobgoblins, Orcs and Goblins into one family is a nifty idea. I went another direction, but with the recent tightening of the 'Goblinoid' races, it makes sense to put Orcs in there are well, since they've become the 'odd man out' of the most common humanoid opponent races.
When a character meets one of these beings, there should be a certain feeling of 'Awe' that comes about. Bilbo was amazed when the Dwarves showed up at his door, and when Sam first arrived in Rivendell, he was mesmerized, and Frodo says "Yes Sam... that's an Elf". But then later, humans are amazed by the Halflings themselves.
Thats what I want - I want people to know about these races, but to a rural farmer, they would be just 'myths'. City-folk may have seen a few of each in their day, but they would still seem out of place walking down the street in a human city.
I also enjoy Dennis McKiernan's Mithgar series, wherein the Warrows (that worlds halflings) are very much like the halflings of the Shire, and the other races, including humans (the 'Big Folk') are rarely seen.
The one thing I can totally agree with the 4th edition team is that I want to recapture that 'sense of wonder' I used to get when I first discovered D&D, all those many years ago. I remember when Orcs used to scare me, rather then make me yawn. We need to put the 'Fantastical' back into Fantasy.
Anyhow, I like what I'm seeing, because it jibes with my own thoughts on the matter - ONLY humans (so far) are a naturally occurring race (have evolved from primates) - all the others came from elsewhere... and it may be, that in the distant past, this may have been the same 'elsewhere' for all the non-humans. I'm picturing a war/catastrophe in Faerie, at some point in primordial times, that drove the other races to new worlds and settle.
That means even Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings could all be part of this 'Fey Group' originally (and some might have even been the result of breeding with humans, or genetic 'experiments' - not just evolution).
I think if I go with another aboriginal race, it may be a Sauroid one, like the Sarrukh from FR (but looking more like some of the Saurials, like Dragonbait). These creatures would have been the ones around when the 'others' arrived, and their own great civilizations would have been destroyed by the new arrivals.
That means lots and lots of ancient 'reptilian' ruins, but the race that built them has devolved mostly into savagery. I like that - although they are 'monsters', their's will be a sad and tragic tale.
I don't think I want ANY aberrations, except for Beholders - after all, this IS D&D. ;)
ELF (interloper, native, ancient bloodline alteration: fey; ancient belief: ancestral/Labelas Enoreth was the first leader of the Seldarine, and Gruumsh was then a part of him/her)
sun (slow evolution); cultures: Cormanthor, Evereska, Evermeet, Xalenar (where is Chondath, influential religions: Tethrin Veralde and Kirith Sotheril), Lyrandrar (in Chondalwood, from Dragon 259)
moon (evolution, alteration: Sehanine Moonbow); cultures: Evereska, Evermeet, Silverymoon, Cormanthor (the Retreat never happened; influential religion: Araleth Letheranil, in Elven Court), Synnoria, Aiseriel (High Ice, alteration: Tarsellis Meunniduin; influential religion: Naralis Analor), ancient Orishaar (in Duskwood's Faerie, alteration: Mythrien Sarath), avariel (Mount Sundabar, Anchorome, alteration: Aerdrie Faenya; Eaerdor, south of Katashka, enemies of local giant realms, particularly followers of Surtr and Imix, alteration: Rellavar Danuvien), alu (Seros, Iumathiashae, Aumrauth, Mlossae, Nindrol, Ondroth, aquatic evolution, alteration: Deep Sashelas), kholiathra (Evermeet, arcana alteration: Sehanine Moonbow), lythari (Evermeet, Hordelands; arcana alteration)
wood (fast evolution, alteration: Rillifane Rallathil); cultures: High Forest, Evermeet, Cormanthor, Lands of Intrigue, Rhymanthiin (influential religion: the Pentad), Sildeyuir (influential religion: Melira Taralen), Yuirwood and Great Dale, Chondalwood, Aluenal (Winterwood and Winterwood's Faerie, alteration: Sarula Iliene), Misty Vale, Mhair and Chult (alteration: Fenmarel Mestarine), Amtar (north of the woodland realm of Rawh which replaced Dambrath; adu'ja bloodline alteration, alteration: Alathrien Druanna; e.g. how this works: a PC playing a sylvan elf from Amtar can potentially become a better druid, enchanter, summoner, runemaster, be born with a runemark which provides some unique power that can improved or remain underdeveloped due to inaction, or can learn to cast more powerful and strategically better entangle etc., gain photosynthesis, etc. the possibilities are endless), Aerenal (south and east of where is canon Lurien, alteration: ancestral belief), yuristru (Aerenal outcasts, fled west to an undead continent, half-vampires, alteration: Kanchelsis)
drow, they aren't elves, so, in the southern continent, call it Xen'drik so far, but with a different shape, don't like it, there are the Vulkoor (alteration: scorpion beast cults), the Sulatar (alteration: Surtr), the Umbragen (alteration: Umbra, aspect of Shar), and the gyrderi are replaced with lythari, I like the albino drow idea, but haven't used it so far
and those Raurinese elves (would be desert evolution) they aren't there, cause of Cordell
eladrin, won't be using the name, tough I never liked that these two races are so separated. I consider that the PCs born and raised or living in Arvandor or Evermeet could be given a possibility to use eladrin feats (or ex, su, sp ...), so the ones dedicated to the teachings of Darahl Firecloak could be like firre in some aspects, or coure of Erevan Ilesere, bralani of Aerdrie Faenya, shiradi of Lashrael, tulani of Corellon Larethian (or the Court of Stars), ghaeles (Elf Knight kit of Evermeet) etc.
I'm thinking about using 'Sylvanesti' from DL for my WoodElves - I always liked that name (with a 'Y' instead of an 'I').
So now all I need is a name for the Albino Drow - the Shadow Elves from Mystara would be perfect, but I don't care for their name (Schattenalfen). Maybe I'll just go with Dökælfen (it looks so fantasy-ish).
Also, I'm thinking about making the Wood Elves similar to the Night Elves of warcraft (but not the same) - I like the face-painting (also used in DL), and the whole 'Night' theme (I can wrap it around the Moon, as they do). I think I may even give them light sensitivity (the jungles they hail from are so overgrown and lush that very little sunlight penetrates the canopy). I also want the trees to be HUGE there - not Redwood huge, I'm talking BIGGER! Entire Towns could built around the branches of a single tree (they would have no cities).
Hmmm.... since everyone else is getting it, maybe I'll give the 'High Elves' (my Maeladrin) light sensitivity as well... just a thought. I have no explanation for it, though... unless I make them Shades (:yuck
.Then again... A combination of Shade and Myth Dranor... it could work.... hmmmmm
So now all I need is a name for the Albino Drow - the Shadow Elves from Mystara would be perfect, but I don't care for their name (Schattenalfen). Maybe I'll just go with Dökælfen (it looks so fantasy-ish).
Dokkalfar? They can borrow from the dark elves of Norse myth, tricksterish in the same way that Loki could be tricksterish (i.e. Loki thinking that starting the apocalypse would be funny...).
Also, I'm thinking about making the Wood Elves similar to the Night Elves of warcraft (but not the same) - I like the face-painting (also used in DL), and the whole 'Night' theme (I can wrap it around the Moon, as they do). I think I may even give them light sensitivity (the jungles they hail from are so overgrown and lush that very little sunlight penetrates the canopy). I also want the trees to be HUGE there - not Redwood huge, I'm talking BIGGER! Entire Towns could built around the branches of a single tree (they would have no cities).
The Scarred Lands divides elves into wood elves (who pierce themselves, paint themselves and prefer spears and bows and non-metal weapons, living in tribes in the forest that are fiercely territorial, even fighting each other!), 'forsaken elves' (the remnants of vast 'high elven' societies and nations, who have been cursed with infertility among themselves and kidnap / recuit humans to create a half-elven subcaste rather than admit that their society is effectively doomed) and dark elves (originally surface dwelling dark-skinned elves who were so strongly allied with the surface-dwelling dwarves that they were known to intermarry, despite not being interfertile, until an act of treachery drove the two races apart, these dark elves, instead of a spider association, have a *construct* association, being amazing craftsmen, metalworkers and stonemasons, and having golems scattered throughout their hidden city).
They were fairly unique presentations of those three sub-races, and I particularly like the idea of wood elves being more like wild elves or grugach, with animalistic faiths and practices. They may have started out 'not of this earth,' but they have plunged deeply into it, unlike their high elven kin, who still hold themselves above it and pine for their otherworldy fey days.
As for the light-sensitive thing, it would fit the otherworldly feel of elves, and their tendency to live in the deepest forests, under a canopy of shadow. They might even be nocturnal, using their low-light vision to gain advantage over prey animals and humans, halflings, etc. but suffering a disadvantage when removed from their shaded forests during the harsh daylight.
I've always found it neat how elves don't seem to have a melanin reaction like humans. Humans denied sunlight grow pale. Humans in sunlight-intense areas grow darker. Elves who live in the high mountains and are exposed to sunlight are the palest of all elves, while those who live in the woods are darker-skinned, and those who live in the deepest woods (wild elves) are described as nut-brown, while those who live in eternal twilight have skin so dark blue or brown as to be almost black, while those who live in the water have blue or green skin. Unlike humans, elven skin bleaches in intense sun and tends to pick up the colors around it. Presumably an elven race that lived in the elemental plane of fire would be red-skinned...
Hmmmm... maybe, in order to satisfy their 'hunger' for Sunlight, the Drow have turned to Faerzress Cysts for this life-giving radiation, which in turn had the unpleasant side-effect of making them all a little insane (chaotic).
I probably won't be using that (especially since it's from 2 editions ago) part about the elven skin absorbing light, but I always found it interesting none-the-less.
I really like the Scarred Lands take on the Wood and 'High' Elves - I may use some of that (I have that book around somewhere, but I don't think I ever read it). Thanks for pointing that setting out.
Also, the Drow associated with Loki is indeed interesting - maybe they are a race of Jarlaxles. :D
I wouldn't use the Scarred Lands interpretation of them, though - having them use constructs seems a little odd to me. I suppose thats why it is so creative, but thats a little too far from the Drow concept for me. I would use it for their cities, though, and perhaps artificial limbs/organs - maybe they don't have access to powerful healing magics, and rely on technology for that?
Just keep those ideas coming, my concepts will just keep morphing along with them.
Maybe like those Elves from Shilmista (Grugach Elves?).
-No, they were just normal ol' Wood Elves.
I think if I go with another aboriginal race, it may be a Sauroid one, like the Sarrukh from FR (but looking more like some of the Saurials, like Dragonbait). These creatures would have been the ones around when the 'others' arrived, and their own great civilizations would have been destroyed by the new arrivals.
That means lots and lots of ancient 'reptilian' ruins, but the race that built them has devolved mostly into savagery. I like that - although they are 'monsters', their's will be a sad and tragic tale.
-Want me to give you the stats for the Saurials, in my campaign? They are pretty much exactly what you just said.
It seems a lot of people imagine similar stuff, which is cool, because if I ever get around to writing stuff down about my world, at least I know people will like at least some of it.
Go ahead - I know the Saurials were covered in 3e in the Serpent Kingdoms WE, but I'll take whatever people want to give me here.
-They aren't D&D Saurials, per se. I made them up, but just liked the name. I'll post the info later, when I sign back on.
-The basic gist of them was that radioactivity from a creature that appeared via a meteor "evolved" a group of dinosaurs in the area into two divergent evolutionary lines: Saurials and Reptites. Visually, I guess the Saurials looked a lot like FR Saurials. You know, basic Dinosaur people, with horns, claws, spikes, and whatever else. I never made any differentiation between those attributes when I gave them stats. The Reptites were a slave race. They were very much akin to Trogladytes, and Lizard-Folk combined.
-Both were cold blooded, so had those penalties. The Saurials had natural claw attacks, while the Reptites didn't. The Saurals were large creatures, while the Reptites were Medium.
-Hope that's useful.
As for references, Svartalfheim is Eilistraee's "home", Svart (black) alf (elf) heim (home). It was originally home to the svartalves of (Northern) Germanic Mythology , as opposed to the "light elves". Whether either of these are actually "dwarves" (i.e. "elves living below the surface of the world"), "trolls" (Germanic sense), or "elves" is very much up to debate and has never been convincingly determined. Not that it need be, from a mythological point of view.
I think if I go with another aboriginal race, it may be a Sauroid one, like the Sarrukh from FR (but looking more like some of the Saurials, like Dragonbait). These creatures would have been the ones around when the 'others' arrived, and their own great civilizations would have been destroyed by the new arrivals.
That means lots and lots of ancient 'reptilian' ruins, but the race that built them has devolved mostly into savagery. I like that - although they are 'monsters', their's will be a sad and tragic tale.
For my Freeport game, the Serpent Folk civilization collapsed as per that setting, with the Serpent Folk devolving into two subraces, the shapeshifting 'Civilized' Serpent Folk and the barbaric 'Degenerate' Serpent Folk. Their magically potent civilization included aquatically-adapted forms (which served as the parent species to the Sahuagin and Locathah), infiltrators able to shed their skins and disguise themselves as other humanoid races (Civilized Serpent Folk), hardier ground troops (parent species to Lizardfolk, Troglodytes and Degenerate Serpent Folk), etc. Most of these races have no clue that they once were subraces of a single parent species, as all of them have fallen far from the days when they practically ruled the world. The Troglodytes, Yuan-Ti and Sahuagin, in particular, survived the downfall of their civilization by turning to other powers to protect them, and were warped by those associations. Even more recently, Lizardfolk have split into sub-breeds as well, as I use the Blackscale and Poison Dusk races.
I've also written the Scarred Lands Asaatthi into the setting, representing the core Serpent Folk race, awakening from suspended animation and surprised at how far their own descendents have fallen. Even the 'Civilized' Serpent Folk are nothing more than a subrace of infiltrators that the original Valossan Serpent Folk held in contempt...
The whole region I'm using has remnants of the ancient Serpent Folk civilization, including ruins, shrines to strange powers (and demon lords, as the desperate and declining civilization turned to anything and anyone that they thought might save them from the incoming disaster) and altered creatures (their cities were 'policed' by magically tamed Giant Preying Mantis,' and the different houses and sub-factions of Valossans would breed them for unique colorations, to distinguish them from each other, breeding them the way a person might cultivate roses...).
After playing WoW the last few days as a Blood Elf (close to FR's Sun Elves), I'd like to use a couple of the 'cooler' concepts from there. I'm thinking about having the original race be called something like Eldaar (I know... derivitive, but I like it), and have them be addicted to magic, sort of.
After fleeing Faerie (I told you it was based on FR ;) ), the Eldaar find that their new world doesn't naturally provide them with 'magical sustenance' like they received back home. The only way for them to survive would be to tap into other sources.
For the Maeladrin, that would be the Shadowfel - now my arrogant, self-serving haughty Elves will be a cross between Evermeet's Gold Elves and the Shades (Yeah, I hate 'Shadow' in FR, but thats only because they beat it to death). So my own city of Shade (Umbrillyr?) will be situated on an island, where the decadent Elves hail from. Don't want to get heavily into the world history yet, but at the time of their arrival they destroy the then-dominant race (something perhaps combining both Dwarves and Giants, maybe Goliaths), and enslave some of the worlds dragons (Dragonriders, a'la Melnibonea). They would also revere Erebus (didn't want to go with Shar, the designers have really made me dislike the name, but not the concept). He's basically the same as Shar, though, and perhaps has a female aspect among humans.
The Wood Elves (I decided for now to go with Sylvanari) would have split from this group early on, not wanting to succumb to the corrupting effects of the Shadow - they instead tap into it's 'opposite', the 'lifeforce' of the planet. Not sure what I'm going to name that, combining things like Chi and spirit together. Basically, their entire culture revolves around protecting their forest, home of their 'Mana Tree'. The name of both the Tree and the most prominent settlement around it would be Telmiithlor (working title). Also, each Elf would be tied to his or her own 'life tree' - at birth the 'placental seed' would be planted and nurtured, and as long as one lived, the other would remain healthy. Elves can leave the vicinity of their tree, but will slowly loose Con when away from it. This means any PC 'adventuring Elves' would have to be young, and carry around their sapling with them! In this way, I sort of make my Wood Elves into 'old school' Dryads - the humans would even refer to females as 'Nymphs'. I also get to have the Mana Tree as central to their culture.
The Shadow Elves would be yet another group that broke off later - perhaps the 'labor class' revolted against their betters (the nobles), and were banished for it. Now they skulk about in the Shadows (Underdark, caves, etc), and have had to turn to Faerzress (stealing from FR once again) for their own sustenance (the Maeladrin cursed them when they were banished, and they are now denied the Umbral power source). The problem is that the Faerzress Radiation also corrupts, but not in the same way as Shadow does. It has caused wild mutations, a leprosy-like rotting disease, and insanity (they are HIGHLY chaotic - moreso then evil). The Rotting Disease is like Radiation sickness, and many of them that live close to the power source hide their faces behind scarves because of the skin damage. Prosthetics are also popular amongst them, because the disease has caused many to lose limbs (and eyes). Their Goddess is really just a Demon-Queen (thats an easy one), and cannot grant Healing Magic, so they have to depend on artificial means like the prosthetics and alchemical concoctions to keep themselves healthy. These guys are like a cross between Mystara's Drow and the irradiated humans from the original Planet of the Apes.
All three races depend on something to survive, and all three need carry their 'power source' with them as PCs.
Still working on the 'Little People' concept - it has grown to include Giants, so that term really doesn't fit. They are a group linked to the earth, and use Runes, and will be similar in many respects to Dragonlance's Urda. I'm thinking a primordial race of Giants, who took the world away from the Dragons, who in turn took it away from Saurainas and Reptoc (another working title). Those two would have been divergent evolutions from dinosaurs, and the Saurians created the Metallic Dragons, while the Reptoc created them Chromatic. At first they would have been machines of war, but eventually they rebelled and enslaved their own masters. The gods would be Bahamut of the Saurians, and Leviathan (Tiamet) of the Reptoc. Both of those gods are the children of Io, who created the world (in their myths). Both races still exist, in various forms, but have changed and devolved (except for perhaps a scant few) over the past 50,000 years.
I'm starting to get a 'world picture' in my head, so I may start a new thread for geography soon.
After playing WoW the last few days as a Blood Elf (close to FR's Sun Elves), I'd like to use a couple of the 'cooler' concepts from there. I'm thinking about having the original race be called something like Eldaar (I know... derivitive, but I like it), and have them be addicted to magic, sort of.
Suiting their adaptive nature (see the reverse-melanin thing), the original proto-elves who left the realm of Faerie may have adapted to the world, and found themselves considered 'tainted' and unwelcome in their original plane (or perhaps were barred from it for other reasons, such as planes moving out of alignment somehow, or religious strife between those who stayed behind and those who left, whatever. They'd never tell humans anyway, especially if the true history, such as them being kicked out of Faerie, made them look bad...). The 'official story' might present those original proto-elves (closer to LeShay in nature) as bold explorers who came to our world, and like boddhisattvas, chose to stay behind only because they pitied us and wanted to help elevate us out of the mud and share with us the glories and wonders of their home plane. Millenia later, having lost most of their magical power, diluted through various means, most humans with any experience working alongside elves would tend to roll their eyes at such a high-falutin' and pretentious origin story...
In any event, magic flows differently here, and they were forced to find other means of reclaiming the power they see as their birthright. The plane of shadow could be one source, the life-force of the planet could be another. This sort of concept opens up the notion of elves who entreat with demons, a more 'Melnibonean' caste of elves who think of themselves as wresting the power that is due to them through their conjurings, and the creatures of the planes as power sources just ripe to be plucked. Naturally, exposure over long time to demonic forces and entities would have tainted and warped the culture of these elves, turning them into the sorts of elves who would not balk at surgically modifying human slaves to produce one pure not and then conducting grand and decadent 'symphonies' by training them to 'sing' on cue. The sorts of jaded ageless people to whom torture would become a performance art.
@Soltares - thanks for your contribution, good stuff.
The basic premise of the Campaign seems to be "A World Finally Free" - in other words, there has been a succession of powerful entities and empires controlling most of the world, from the time of Dragons who were replaced by the Giants, to the Elves (Eldaar), who were in control for thousands of years, until internal strife tore their empire apart (the 'working class' rebelled against the nobles, which caused the split into the Drow-like race). After sliding into decadence, they Maeladrin Empire would be replaced by something even more vile - some sort of despotic Communist-like group similar to the Necromunger of the Chronicles of Riddick fame. These guys would have probably come from another continent (this idea being similar to both the Seachan of WoT and the Orgoth from the Iron Kingdoms setting). As of right now, I'm seeing this group (thought I had a great name, but then I saw it somewhere else) slowly replacing the Maeladrin as a world-controller. The Maeladrin, off safe on their Island Kingdom, basically ignore much of what transpires in the rest of the world by this point. Even though they have lost a great deal of revenue in taxes and slaves, it doesn't seem to even faze them. After a century more of control, the new BBG decides to attack Umbrillyr itself, which turns out to be a HUGE mistake. Although the Maeladrin have grown complacent over the millenia, they are still incredibly powerful Sorcerors, and the two 'super-powers' practically wipe-out each other's forces - it could be said that the Maeladrin 'won', but only because the invading fleet of 10,000 ships were completely destroyed, but at great cost.
This of course causes a massive number of uprsings around the world, and the 'Invader' controlled regions in the main campaign join together and take back their continent. So to do the few remaining 'colonies' of the Maeladrin. During these wars, many strange alliances are formed. For instance, the 'good' Dwarves which are common to most campaign worlds side with the Invaders, because they embrace "Lawfulness". On the other hand, the 'bad' Dwarves (who are a cross between Duargur and Warhammer's Chaos Dwarves) side with the forces of 'good' who are rebelling, because they embrace 'Chaos'.
What I'm left with is a Campaign world with two powerful fallen empires, Tons of ancient ruins, dozens of small, 'new' Kingdoms experiencing growing pains, and plenty of post-war animosty going around. Also, the 'Invaders' power came from a technological base - they had things like Steam tanks and Warforged Juggernaughts, whereas the old Eladrin's power was base on Eldritch Sorceries. The Dwarves have divided along similar lines, with the 'good' Dwarves embracing 'tech' (using primitive guns - they are very similar to WoW's Dwarves), but not being much-loved throughout the 'New Kingdoms'. The 'Dark Dwarves' (I really need to name all of these groups) were the ones that helped the Alliance, so even though they are evil (sort of - lots and lots of 'grey area' in my campaigns), they are still excepted in human-held lands.
So basically, every group is out for themselves, and trying to grab a 'piece of the pie', and no one is truly good or evil - I plan on having divisions much more along the lines of Chaos vs Law, a'la Michael Moorcock's books, although not so 'all-encompassing' as he writes (like I said, lots of grey areas). Some groups of Dökælfen (my Drow) even worked for both sides during the war, as mercenaries (the war for Freedom, not the war between the two empires). The entire race is set-up like Bregan D'aerthe - they are cut-throat Rogues and warlocks, and while some operate like Jarlaxle's group, others take to raiding or even living hidden on the surface, like the Cormanthor Drow.
Borrowing heavily from many different settings, and taking the parts I like best. :D
I'm even thinking about a train (built by the old empire) that the Dwarves keep running, that actually passes through a section of the Underdark (talk about your subway systems!). The Underdark section, of course, is constantly coming under attack - think Drow train-robbers, complete with the 'masks' (I said they almost all wear veils).
I'm thinking about transplanting the Gnoblins from the Utter East thread here, since they were based heavily on the WoW Goblins. I like Zeppelins.... such an efficient way to get characters around your world for adevnturing.
Although I don't like the entirety of Eberron (Aberrations, the Cosmology, and psionics mostly), you can see a lot of that going on as well here.
Also, now that the other two 'super-powers' are out of the way, there is a growing threat to the East (think Emperor Ming/the Mandarin), and also at least one 'new kingdom' that is still primarily composed of 'loyalists' to the old regime (think the Great Kingdom from GH campaign), who would like to see their 'old glories' re-established. These two have struck-up talks, but both want to be in control of a new 'world empire', so it doesn't really go much beyond trade deals. Think WWII Japan and Germany here - if they work out their differences, it could spell doom for newly established freedom.
With all the intrigue and ruins, you'd think I was running the Realms here. ;)
I'm probably going to start some world-building soon somewhere - I'm just not sure how I want to handle that... or where. I already have the 'Great Plains' region and the Elven forest worked out in my head, so I need to start putting things down on paper to see how it all fits together.
Also, I want some sort of 'Horde' to have done something major at some point in the past, practically defeating everyone else on the main continent, and pouring "out of the east":, which will be just a mosly unexplored barren wasteland. This idea alsio stems from Wot, with the Aeil, and also the Iron Kingdoms setting, where a 'strange race' lives in the wastes, riding grat 'war Beasts'.
Basically, I want threats all around, constantly hanging over everyone's head, and the idea is to keep playing them all off against one another (else all those fragile little 'new' kingdoms will get overrun). It also gives me 'adventure areas' in EVERY direction, so the campaign can evolve however the players see fit (depending on what sparks their interest).
So, in 4e terminology, I'm looking at a cluster of 'Points of Light', with 'darkness all around', but in my world, evil most certainly fights evil, more often then not. Also, I'm picturing 3-4 main continents, with many island chains, and the 'Great Sea' in the center being a major point of the campaign. I'm hoping for seaborn/pirate type stuff, but that all depends on what the players want (which is the premise behind this design).
i like your setting btw=)
As for continents, could have your Seanchan come from a massive continent?
I'm really set on having the water central, like in Moorcock's Elric stories, or the excellent Earthsea trilogy by Ursula LeGuinn. I think that better explains why the cultures from the various regions are so different, and have different magic and technology levels. If some ancient empire(s) controlled the seas, it would explain why Ocean-going vessels are only recently being developed by the newly-freed lands.
I may even use the basic outline of the Realms for my continent - I like it a lot, and my world is sort of a 'what if' version of FR.
HEY! I just got an idea!!!
How about if it IS Abeir-Toril, before the Elves sundered the continent? Definate possibilities there, and I wouldn't really need to follow any canon, considering almost none exist before that time. It would be the time when humans are first coming into their own...
Plus, its a good excuse of why I'm hosting this thread here, rather then in any of the world-building forums. ;)
Plus, its a good excuse of why I'm hosting this thread here, rather then in any of the world-building forums. ;)
-That you want our opinions, and not anyone else's has precidence, and thus, can be done. Numerous threads on the "Astrid's Parlor" threads are rather general in nature, but are not off-topic for that area because they are requesting the regulars of "Astrid's Parlor" specifically for answers/advice/whatever else. That said, there's the precidence you need.
Sounds extremely familiar, but I think I'm having a 'senior moment'.:embarrass
I like the idea of the edges of the map 'trailing off' to parts unknown, much like it is with Moorcock's Young Kingdoms. I also am very into having an 'Endless Waste' to the east, and the Oriental-style lands acrosss the ocean having the same thing to their west (but 'off-screen').
I'm thinking an Athas-like Badlands that are un-traversible by anything other then the natives... which could be the very reason why they are called 'Black Orcs'! I hadn't even been thinking about skin color, but rather their violent nature. If the tempertures are insanely hot, they would have a 'burnt' appearance.
Thats a rather obscure piece of lore - what were they, only mentioned once or twice in passing?
Good catch, though.
Something like that - perhaps an immense landrise, like in the Shaar, but a couple mile high. Then the 'Barbarians' could live on a high, wind-swept forbidding plateau that is thousands of miles across.
And every once in awhile, they come pouring down to wreak havoc, and all those races/nations that normally don't get along have to ally just to stay alive. Sounds similar to the Aiel war, I know, but these guys aren't going to be 'attractive' like the Aiel (they'll be more like the Trolocs).
Also, if I do go with airships/zeppelins, they will NOT be able to cross the 'Fallen Lands' (has that been used yet?), because it will also be heavily populated with dragons. Not the cold, calculating brilliant creatures they are in D&D and modern movies, but rather terrible beasts of wanton destruction. No subtle, noble creatures here - I want giant Lizards who will eat anything in sight, not sit down and have a cup of tea over brunch.
Something like the Ogier, too. I have something in mind, combining that concept with the one from Dragonlance, about the Ogres. Once a bright, powerful race, which has now fallen and fragmented into several different groups, some beastial. I have to see what the 4e rules say about Giants though, before I finalize any of that. In D&D, Ogres have been part of the Giant race, the Orc race, and the Goblinoids, and I think I like them best as their own seperate group. Geez, I remember when Orcs were Goblinoids.
I will have completely different names for each race though, so they will match an existing D&D one in stats, but not neccessarily in culture or physical description. The terms 'Elves' and 'Dwarves' will even be just the human names for them - they will call themselves something else entirely. This way, I can get all the pleasure of designing new races, but I will only have to deal with the fluff.
Can't wait till I get home so I can start organizing some of this stuff and begin the basic continental outlines and racial/kingdom placements.
Ah, Okay.
Thats a rather obscure piece of lore - what were they, only mentioned once or twice in passing?
Good catch, though.
Something like that - perhaps an immense landrise, like in the Shaar, but a couple mile high. Then the 'Barbarians' could live on a high, wind-swept forbidding plateau that is thousands of miles across.
And every once in awhile, they come pouring down to wreak havoc, and all those races/nations that normally don't get along have to ally just to stay alive. Sounds similar to te Aiel war, I know, but these guys aren't going to be 'attractive' like the Aiel (they'll be more like the Trolocs).
Graendal captures the King and Queen, who are quite annoyed about the whole surviving part, so compulsion FTW. Think the Aiel talk somewhat about Shara, but most of it's from "The World of Robert Jordan" or so, which is basically aGHotR for the Wheel of Time. They even explain why Sammael loved shock lances! Did you know it was Lanfear that discovered the Dark One by drilling into his prison, looking for an alternative source of power, not knowing what was down there? Did i hear a "whoops!"?
i wubz the Aiel - they're gingers.
But like your take on dragons=)
They will have darkvision, and definately NOT Infra-vision, because the entire Plateau will be geothermically unstable. That would wreak havoc on any type of heat-oriented vision. I'm picturing sudden steam gysers, and cracks just appering in the land at random, with large rivers of lava flowing around. One MASSIVE Volcano somewhere, that constantly spews smoke, leaving the surrounding land shrouded in darkness (good for the Hurrg). Because the land will be riddled with fissures and lava rivers, I'm thinking of going wit the name "The Bleeding lands" - The 'Fallen Lands' sounds derivitive, and not scarey enough (plus it doesn't really fit anymore).
I like those Knights I'm reading about in pathfinder - they sound similar to the 'Blue Cloaks' I came up with for the Utter East thread (and yes, they are based on the White Cloaks of WoT). I think I'll have them be part of the 'Old Kingdom' that still wants to bring back the empire. No magic for them - they are dead-set against it (Seachan meets Warhammer's Empire, with a dash of Necromunger thrown in). Definately Bane worshippers, especially now that he's 'gone Core'.
If my world were to look like Faerûn, that Empire would be where calimshan is, and completely surrounded by mountains (similar to Halruaa), with only one major way through (and a 'Moria' take-off for the Dwarves they work with). They're chief city will be very much like Calimport, but back when it was at it's height (more like Shoonach really).
More later - keep the ideas coming. :D
But yeah, you need White Cloaks! Lord Captain High Commander rocks!
But what me and my brother once did for a world we planned (much like yours) was that magic was only available through either tapping directly into it (think Aes Sedai/Asha'man), which was like sorcerers; you're born with it. The other possibility was you could make a pact with a daemon/fiend/evil god to grant you the same power. This made White Cloaks necessary!
Yup, getting back to the Warhammer stuff, they'd be like the Imperial Witchunters, which of course are based on RW Inquisitionists. So, not as 'white and fluffy' as the White Cloaks - grittier, with a nasty job to do. Not all bad though, because they wll also take down demons, undead, Vampire and Lycanthrope infestations, etc...
The problem is convincing them you are not one of the 'fallen' - they tend to burn entire towns to the ground when they find something.
Damn, I think this is starting to sound more "Points of Light" then anything WotC is working on. I haven't come up with a single 'good' group yet.
I do plan a Cormyr/Camelot/Bretonnia type kingdom, with lots of Celtic elements, so it won't be all bad. I think thats going to have to be one of the 'start areas', to use a MORPG term.
I'm leaning heavily towrd duality here, with two versions of everything. I'll need something like 'the Taint' to effect certain creatures, similar to many settings, including Rokugon.
Maybe two differnt 'taints' vieing for control - one Lawful, the other Chaotic (or something like that - Shadow and Psuedo? No... wait... thats 4e FR...)
Wow... that just made me come up with a good monster - the Shuedow.
I feel good right now - I'm being creative, rather then negative - that's really been getting me down the past few months.
Also, you could have an order of knights that all get turned into vampires, Blood Dragon style?
But the White Cloak questioners were pretty gritty. They didn't play around; and tbh, the White Cloaks were just more full of themselves than the Witch Hunters.
Also, you could have an order of knights that all get turned into vampires, Blood Dragon style?
-I'm going to have to steal that. Vampire Knight mercenaries...
I'm definately seeing two knightly orders, like the Knights Hospitalar and the Knights Templer. I don't picture them being enemies so much as rivals. This way we have our 'Inquistion' type, and our 'Camelot' type. Given the new rules regarding Paladin alignments in 4e, I suppose anything goes.
Oh, and the planet has four moons... that they know of. ;)
Could have skeleton knights? That template out of BoVD.
I'm picturing something akin to 40K's 'Grey Knights' (can't remember the real name - I don't do 40K).
Anyway, I having a bit of a dilema - the "Old Kingdom" needs to be on the coast, because it is the last bastion of the old empire - the one that invaded from across the sea.
However, I want it to have a snowy siberian-like northern border (like WH's Empire), with Highlander/Rus types defending the mountains, keeping monstrous stuff from even further north at bay (like WoT). So, unless that Kingdom/empire takes up the entire eastern coast, its not do-able (the invaders came from the south).
Unless I have the invaders come from the east... but then I still have to move my Viking-types off the main continent... maybe that would be better anyway...
My Vikings are going to be based on a race I used in a campaign 30 years ago called the Vogalts, and they are more like Firbolgs anyway, so maybe having them off-shore is the best solution.
I was thinking something closer to 'Warrior-Liches' - ancient, cadaverous knights still fighting '"the good fight" - perhaps because of a curse.
-Conjures images of Lord of the Rings, with the cursed Gondorians whose names escape me at the moment.
I was thinking a little more physical - my very first thought was Galahad (?) at the end of The last Crusade; he's still there, protecting the Grail, and his holy mission has become something of a curse for him.
I think to make this work, there has to be something 'epic' that they are 'waiting for', before they can go to their final rest.
Perhaps I can make them like the Bloodgaurd from the Thomas Covenant novels - they have sworn themselves to some sacred duty, and by doing so, they are granted a form of immortality.
I just have to figure out what they are gaurding, or what 'momentous event' they are awaiting. I think I prefer the event - the 'gaurdianship' thing is a bit over-done.
Weren't those ghosts, though?
-Undead is Undead. Especially if you are physical enough to do all of the things those Gondorians did.
'Battlefield Remnants'...Aren't those in a D&D book, somewhere?
-Conjures images of Lord of the Rings, with the cursed Gondorians whose names escape me at the moment.
They weren't Gondorians. it's pretty clear they weren't the same ethnic group, as they're always referred to as men and not Númenoreans, which were Gondor's forefathers.
And Grey Knights were daemon hunters in 40k, if my memory serves correctly?
And Grey Knights were daemon hunters in 40k, if my memory serves correctly?
I only played WH, not 40K, so my knowledge of them only comes from owning the GW catalogue.
All I remember is something like "Grey Wolves" or some such, and they were older men, with grey hair and beards. I guess they were a unit of super-elite veterans or something - I just loved the look.
I bought a couple 40K models for conversions, though - In its day, GW had the most unique looking minis around.
Anyhow, I just stopped in here to say that any future work I do on my 'Amalgam World' will be over at the Vault. I want to look at the Pathfinder/Golarion maps before I go any further though, because adapting is always easier then creating from scratch. Since I'm stuck where I am for two more days, thats another two days before I download the PF stuff, so don't expect any posts at the Vault until then.
I've decided to go with Golarion for my normal fantasy gaming - its so much easier then starting from scratch, and I can always change whatever I want (without the problems that sometimes caused when done in FR).
However, I've just 'dissected' this thread, and taken all the goodness from it and put it in a document for another idea I have in mind.
What I may work on is a Steampunk-genre style campaign for FR/Anchorome, depending on what they do with Anchorome in the 4e FRCG. I've tried this before, and I had a lot of fun designing it, but I couldn't find anyone willing to play in it (it is a very specific sub-genre). I figure I can still have fun creating it, and just play in another world more to everyone's liking.
The reason I got interested in this again is because of some stuff I recently wrote about the FR iconic character, Dûdon Ahörz, and I'd like to see him in a setting where he can really shine - fighting Undead and Werewolves in the Old West. :D
-You should go for my setting, for all of your campaigning needs...
where is it? Lets see it all my friend
where is it? Lets see it all my friend
-Nah, I'd never want anyone else to actually set a D&D campaign in it, other than me. I'd feel...Weird. I have been doing a lot of overhauling to it, lately, though. I'm redesigning the "index" of nations/kingdoms/cities I have, by creating "regions".
-Maybe one day, I'd put it online, or something. I know all of the characters that I have (well, most of them, not all of them) are written with my setting in mind, so from reading those, one might be able to get a "sense" of the world.
-Nah, I'd never want anyone else to actually set a D&D campaign in it, other than me. I'd feel...Weird. I have been doing a lot of overhauling to it, lately, though. I'm redesigning the "index" of nations/kingdoms/cities I have, by creating "regions".
-Maybe one day, I'd put it online, or something. I know all of the characters that I have (well, most of them, not all of them) are written with my setting in mind, so from reading those, one might be able to get a "sense" of the world.
I'd love to see it, especially online
and why would you feel weird if others used it or at least elements of it?
How long have you been developing it?
I'd love to see it, especially online
-I recently thought of getting a free Angelfire website, to write the chronology, and link to biographies and such. I tried something like that with MS Word, and it didn't exactly work.
and why would you feel weird if others used it or at least elements of it?
-Because, it's mine, and whomever it is doesn't understand what everything "means", if that makes sense.
How long have you been developing it?
-About four years?
-I recently thought of getting a free Angelfire website, to write the chronology, and link to biographies and such. I tried something like that with MS Word, and it didn't exactly work.
Cool. I would like to check it out
--Because, it's mine, and whomever it is doesn't understand what everything "means", if that makes sense.
Basically, you don't want someone spellplaguing it
Basically, you don't want someone spellplaguing it
-Yes, and no. What someone did in their own campaign wouldn't have any bearing on things, because what they thing/say/do doesn't matter, but it'd feel weird if someone picked up on some plothook, and then took it in a direction that I did not intend. For instance, in my setting, there was a pivotal event where a large creature from space came and crash landed on the setting. This was the eventual downfall of the large Elven empires that once ruled the main continent of the planet. The creature was defeated, but not before it created three spawn. In the text, I have written that two of the three spawn were located and destroyed, but one remains theoretically out there, somewhere. If someone picked that up, it'd be weird, because I never intended that to be picked up. Know what I mean?
- Know what I mean?
Yes. Its your baby. But here is the flip side. You put it out there and someone uses stuff from it. Its unlikely someone would just take the setting for their own. But someone might read your stuff and say "hey thats cool". I am gonna have a alien monster fall from space and kill an empire off and now my adventurers have to stop it from re-awakening or the spawn or whatnot. Thus, you have a homage
-Regardless...Once it was more finished, I wouldn't mind sharing it with a select few, but...
I understand. I guess we should get back to re-inventing Elvis now
I understand. I guess we should get back to re-inventing Elvis now
-He could definitely benefit from losing some weight...
Lets reinvent some Elves.
and they need bigger ears
be like having to face off against a droblin
And they should be different colors. I always hate pictures of elves and they all have pretty much human coloration. When we say green elves they should be green.
-You don't really need to 'deconstruct' things to get that effect, just so you know. I mean, Elves are "Usually Chaotic Good". There will always be a Elaith Craulnober, a Kymil Nimesin, and a Drizzt Do'Urden in every crowd.
I find it hilarious that Drizzt wound up in the company of Elaith and Kymil, there.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall during THAT tea party.
ok let make em more fey, lets give em fairy wings. And they should be more of a party down race. They always say Elves are supposed to be carefare and everything, but everyone ive ever known always played them as being very serious and stoic.
and they need bigger ears
What you're describing sounds very much like the elves of Golarion.
Shameless Golarion plug! I love it EC.
I don't mean to single out Golarian. I like Golarion elves, Forgotten Realms elves, Tolkien elves, dark elves, and Santa's elves. I even like Terry Prachett elves, mostly because they are so thoroughly unlikeable. I like elves from real-world folklores ranging from the linchetto of Tuscan folklore to the mischievous Polish psotnik to Irish fairies to the little folk in various Native American tales.
Sensing a theme yet? ;)
Stigger will hate you now...
Elf Power!
Maybe I should start a group for Elven Supremists...I would call it the Eldreth Veluuthra.
D&D needs to use more pixies, nixies, grigs, jermlaine, and spriggan. Cute, tiny, bouncy, evil ones.
what ever you say
Oh, I dunno about that... I'm pretty sure they know a good time when they see one. How else would they know to bash you on the head when you're smiling and laughing afterall? 
In my campaign they live in a southern continent, heavily jungled. Sort of like the Amazon. In this jungle the canopy is so thick in areas that daylight sometimes never gets through. The dark Elves evolved their dark completion from a milenia of hunting under the dark canopy. At some point they came under the thrall of a demonic demi god. This demi god demands constant blood sacrifices, and as a result they have become vicious slavers and raiders to appeas him.
Culturally they are like an amazonian tribe, still in the stone age, but with powerful blood magics.
Sounds very interesting Bonzai. Do you have a write up for them? or are they game mechanically like Drow?
So mostly just fluff changes with a few NPC classes, and a few odd new creatures thrown in. (They some times ride those prehistoric Emu things who's name escapes me).