Re: Raise Dead in FR - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Re: Raise Dead in FR

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
salla
Dec 03, 2008 9:30:31 I have the FRPG, but not the Campaign Guide, which is why I need to ask, since I couldn't find any reference in the PG.

Does FR still have the ridiculous rule about getting hosed in the afterlife if you don't worship a god in 4e?
#2
colman
Dec 03, 2008 9:54:10 No, that's gone away, I think: coming from 2e to 4e, skipping 3e, I was very confused when people brought it up.
#3
lord_karsus
Dec 03, 2008 10:55:21 -The Wall no longer exists. Why it no longer exists is not explained, however. Personally, the status of the afterlife is in more shambles now than it was before, and before, regarding the faithless and the false, it was pretty bad to begin with.
#4
salla
Dec 03, 2008 23:32:55 Oh, good. Thank you.
#5
Stigger
Dec 04, 2008 0:18:42 Was always kind of fond of that one for some reason... not really sure why though. Could be that one of my players had his cleric constantly inquiring about the state of others souls, lest they end up in the wall, and had they much knowledge of Lliira... was more entertaining than annoying when she did it though. Don't like it much from a philosophical point of view though.
#6
Mr_Miscellany
Dec 04, 2008 2:09:20 Based on the (very) limited info in the Campaign Guide, I'd say those who are faithless end up serving Kelemvor in his divine realm on the Fugue Plane.

A DM could easily rule that the faithless -having little emotional or spiritual connection to the gods- remain in the Shadowfell plane or simply pass out of existence entirely (each of these ideas are in keeping with the information found on page 65 of the FRCG).
#7
rinonalyrna_fathomlin
Dec 04, 2008 9:43:11
Don't like it much from a philosophical point of view though.

The Wall? Never liked it myself.
#8
lord_karsus
Dec 04, 2008 11:33:34
The Wall? Never liked it myself.

-If it was fleshed out more, it could have been an interesting concept. It wasn't, though, so...
#9
Stigger
Dec 04, 2008 14:44:13 Indeed the wall. Of course having said that, I'm not a big subscriber to the idea of an afterlife period, at least not a conscious, self-aware one. But I do agree its an interesting concept in terms of the Realms cosmology, although one that was never really explained to my satisfaction.
#10
lord_karsus
Dec 04, 2008 15:21:17 -Like the whole Time of Troubles, in my opinion, it was an interesting concept that had potential, and probably could have been a lot better if done in a different manner.

-In my own setting, what I do with the afterlife, those who have deities are picked up by their deities, and become petitioners in their respective realms. Devils and Demons do the usual recruiting, on the way. Those without deities become "citizens" of the City of the Dead, or can elect to return to the Bastion of Souls, and be reborn. Those who are "false"- and I don't use that concept- they can either become "citizens" of the City of the Dead, or be reborn as well. Those who worship the deity of the dead, in death, go to the City of the Dead, and act as 'police officers', maintaining things, and such.
#11
markustay_dup
Dec 04, 2008 18:29:32 I heard when Ronald Reagan died, he went to FR's afterlife and said -

"Mr. Kelemvor... TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!"

Everybody listens to Ronald Reagan. :D

I just want to know what happened to all the souls in the wall after it was destroyed.
#12
lykor
Dec 04, 2008 20:20:22
-If it was fleshed out more...

Was that a poor choice of words or a really bad pun?

On a serious note, I never really liked the Wall concept (and no, not The Wall album). It just seemed like kind of a cop out, really. I don't have a problem with doing something "bad" with faithless/false, but the Wall was not it. I kind of like the "go directly to Shadow Plane, do not pass go" idea. Or maybe sold/traded/punished by transforming them to some crappy outsider.
#13
lord_karsus
Dec 04, 2008 23:41:07
I just want to know what happened to all the souls in the wall after it was destroyed.

-Utterly obviated. It's sad, really.

Was that a poor choice of words or a really bad pun?

-The former.
#14
Mr_Miscellany
Dec 04, 2008 23:57:08
I just want to know what happened to all the souls in the wall after it was destroyed.

I bet Kelemvor sacrificed them to maintain his realm during the Spellplague.

Makes me imagine a metallic colored circle with a dash at one point (like a capital "Q") surrounding the City of Judgment, that follows the shape of the old wall of the faithless.

The dash-shaped area would be the exact point where Kelemvor stood and absorbed the souls of the faithless, channeling that power through the Crystal Spire and into the very fabric of the Fugue Plane, thus keeping it from dissolving and maintaining its links to the prime material plane and the reformed planes of the other deities.
#15
Stigger
Dec 05, 2008 5:14:53 Oddly enough, I'd tend to think of Kelemvor's Realm being one of the few, if not the only, places that would have had little trouble resisting the effects of the Spellplague... but I've got an odd view of cosmology for D&D, shaped my by ideas from the WoD than anything else, so take that with a grain of salt.
#16
Mr_Miscellany
Dec 05, 2008 20:50:43 My brain went that route initially too, but I figured it'd be more interesting to assume Kelemvor's realm went on a roller coaster ride like every other deity's during the Spellplague.
#17
markustay_dup
Dec 06, 2008 13:56:42 Nice take, Misc,

I really like the part where Kelemvor absorbes the souls - I've always felt that Fiends and celtial-types (including gods) were really all part of the same group (thats how it is in Eastern Mythology). What Kel is doing there is resorting to 'Fiendish' behaviour - what we mortals would call 'barbarian', or 'savage' behaviour when applied to a human. Basically, he opted for a very primitive route to accomplish what he needed to do - the direct absorption of souls for power. Normally, 'good' or 'neutral' gods would never do such a thing... at least not in polite company.

Nicely done.
#18
Mr_Miscellany
Dec 06, 2008 15:42:24 Perhaps it was this act that made him an unaligned deity (matching his description in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide)?

Maybe this caused him to loose whatever humanity or mortal-ish feelings he had left?
#19
erevis_cale_dup
Dec 06, 2008 18:11:55 "All in all were justa, nother brick in the wall"....

#20
lord_karsus
Dec 08, 2008 10:33:46 -You can find more musing about it in THISthread.
#21
salla
Dec 08, 2008 19:41:22 The rule is gone, which makes me happy. I'm good.
#22
blackmasque
Dec 11, 2008 21:45:40 I always ignored that game in my Realms campaigns. Except for the one time when all of my PCs were TPKed but I continued on the game with them as ghosts with the Wall being threatened as punishment for failing the missions I had them sent on.
#23
quale1
Dec 12, 2008 2:50:28 petitioners normally get absorbed sooner or later, so nothing fiendish about that

I liked the wall, maybe it wasn't fair, but why it should be. imagine Defier groups attempting to free them
#24
lord_karsus
Dec 15, 2008 10:56:33
I liked the wall, maybe it wasn't fair, but why it should be.

-No reason to have it fair or unfair. A universal phenomenon like that, it shouldn't inherently lean one way or the other, I think.
#25
rinonalyrna_fathomlin
Dec 15, 2008 12:07:16
-No reason to have it fair or unfair.

Agreed. Besides, why shouldn't things be fair is an equally valid question, isn't it?
#26
Stigger
Dec 15, 2008 13:00:35 Depends on philosophical outlook more than anything... one could look at life as inherently fair, or as inherently unfair, and probably be able to make a case for either depending on the point of view and criteria used to make the assessment. Not sure why the "afterlife" should be any different, although it probably would depend on the point of view of the person making the judgment.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 salla Dec 03, 2008 9:30:31	I have the FRPG, but not the Campaign Guide, which is why I need to ask, since I couldn't find any reference in the PG. Does FR still have the ridiculous rule about getting hosed in the afterlife if you don't worship a god in 4e?
#2 colman Dec 03, 2008 9:54:10	No, that's gone away, I think: coming from 2e to 4e, skipping 3e, I was very confused when people brought it up.
#3 lord_karsus Dec 03, 2008 10:55:21	-The Wall no longer exists. Why it no longer exists is not explained, however. Personally, the status of the afterlife is in more shambles now than it was before, and before, regarding the faithless and the false, it was pretty bad to begin with.
#4 salla Dec 03, 2008 23:32:55	Oh, good. Thank you.
#5 Stigger Dec 04, 2008 0:18:42	Was always kind of fond of that one for some reason... not really sure why though. Could be that one of my players had his cleric constantly inquiring about the state of others souls, lest they end up in the wall, and had they much knowledge of Lliira... was more entertaining than annoying when she did it though. Don't like it much from a philosophical point of view though.
#6 Mr_Miscellany Dec 04, 2008 2:09:20	Based on the (very) limited info in the Campaign Guide, I'd say those who are faithless end up serving Kelemvor in his divine realm on the Fugue Plane. A DM could easily rule that the faithless -having little emotional or spiritual connection to the gods- remain in the Shadowfell plane or simply pass out of existence entirely (each of these ideas are in keeping with the information found on page 65 of the FRCG).
#7 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Dec 04, 2008 9:43:11	Don't like it much from a philosophical point of view though. The Wall? Never liked it myself.
#8 lord_karsus Dec 04, 2008 11:33:34	The Wall? Never liked it myself. -If it was fleshed out more, it could have been an interesting concept. It wasn't, though, so...
#9 Stigger Dec 04, 2008 14:44:13	Indeed the wall. Of course having said that, I'm not a big subscriber to the idea of an afterlife period, at least not a conscious, self-aware one. But I do agree its an interesting concept in terms of the Realms cosmology, although one that was never really explained to my satisfaction.
#10 lord_karsus Dec 04, 2008 15:21:17	-Like the whole Time of Troubles, in my opinion, it was an interesting concept that had potential, and probably could have been a lot better if done in a different manner. -In my own setting, what I do with the afterlife, those who have deities are picked up by their deities, and become petitioners in their respective realms. Devils and Demons do the usual recruiting, on the way. Those without deities become "citizens" of the City of the Dead, or can elect to return to the Bastion of Souls, and be reborn. Those who are "false"- and I don't use that concept- they can either become "citizens" of the City of the Dead, or be reborn as well. Those who worship the deity of the dead, in death, go to the City of the Dead, and act as 'police officers', maintaining things, and such.
#11 markustay_dup Dec 04, 2008 18:29:32	I heard when Ronald Reagan died, he went to FR's afterlife and said - "Mr. Kelemvor... TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!" Everybody listens to Ronald Reagan. :D I just want to know what happened to all the souls in the wall after it was destroyed.
#12 lykor Dec 04, 2008 20:20:22	-If it was fleshed out more... Was that a poor choice of words or a really bad pun? On a serious note, I never really liked the Wall concept (and no, not The Wall album). It just seemed like kind of a cop out, really. I don't have a problem with doing something "bad" with faithless/false, but the Wall was not it. I kind of like the "go directly to Shadow Plane, do not pass go" idea. Or maybe sold/traded/punished by transforming them to some crappy outsider.
#13 lord_karsus Dec 04, 2008 23:41:07	I just want to know what happened to all the souls in the wall after it was destroyed. -Utterly obviated. It's sad, really. Was that a poor choice of words or a really bad pun? -The former.
#14 Mr_Miscellany Dec 04, 2008 23:57:08	I just want to know what happened to all the souls in the wall after it was destroyed. I bet Kelemvor sacrificed them to maintain his realm during the Spellplague. Makes me imagine a metallic colored circle with a dash at one point (like a capital "Q") surrounding the City of Judgment, that follows the shape of the old wall of the faithless. The dash-shaped area would be the exact point where Kelemvor stood and absorbed the souls of the faithless, channeling that power through the Crystal Spire and into the very fabric of the Fugue Plane, thus keeping it from dissolving and maintaining its links to the prime material plane and the reformed planes of the other deities.
#15 Stigger Dec 05, 2008 5:14:53	Oddly enough, I'd tend to think of Kelemvor's Realm being one of the few, if not the only, places that would have had little trouble resisting the effects of the Spellplague... but I've got an odd view of cosmology for D&D, shaped my by ideas from the WoD than anything else, so take that with a grain of salt.
#16 Mr_Miscellany Dec 05, 2008 20:50:43	My brain went that route initially too, but I figured it'd be more interesting to assume Kelemvor's realm went on a roller coaster ride like every other deity's during the Spellplague.
#17 markustay_dup Dec 06, 2008 13:56:42	Nice take, Misc, I really like the part where Kelemvor absorbes the souls - I've always felt that Fiends and celtial-types (including gods) were really all part of the same group (thats how it is in Eastern Mythology). What Kel is doing there is resorting to 'Fiendish' behaviour - what we mortals would call 'barbarian', or 'savage' behaviour when applied to a human. Basically, he opted for a very primitive route to accomplish what he needed to do - the direct absorption of souls for power. Normally, 'good' or 'neutral' gods would never do such a thing... at least not in polite company. Nicely done.
#18 Mr_Miscellany Dec 06, 2008 15:42:24	Perhaps it was this act that made him an unaligned deity (matching his description in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide)? Maybe this caused him to loose whatever humanity or mortal-ish feelings he had left?
#19 erevis_cale_dup Dec 06, 2008 18:11:55	"All in all were justa, nother brick in the wall"....
#20 lord_karsus Dec 08, 2008 10:33:46	-You can find more musing about it in THISthread.
#21 salla Dec 08, 2008 19:41:22	The rule is gone, which makes me happy. I'm good.
#22 blackmasque Dec 11, 2008 21:45:40	I always ignored that game in my Realms campaigns. Except for the one time when all of my PCs were TPKed but I continued on the game with them as ghosts with the Wall being threatened as punishment for failing the missions I had them sent on.
#23 quale1 Dec 12, 2008 2:50:28	petitioners normally get absorbed sooner or later, so nothing fiendish about that I liked the wall, maybe it wasn't fair, but why it should be. imagine Defier groups attempting to free them
#24 lord_karsus Dec 15, 2008 10:56:33	I liked the wall, maybe it wasn't fair, but why it should be. -No reason to have it fair or unfair. A universal phenomenon like that, it shouldn't inherently lean one way or the other, I think.
#25 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Dec 15, 2008 12:07:16	-No reason to have it fair or unfair. Agreed. Besides, why shouldn't things be fair is an equally valid question, isn't it?
#26 Stigger Dec 15, 2008 13:00:35	Depends on philosophical outlook more than anything... one could look at life as inherently fair, or as inherently unfair, and probably be able to make a case for either depending on the point of view and criteria used to make the assessment. Not sure why the "afterlife" should be any different, although it probably would depend on the point of view of the person making the judgment.