My impression is that they've generally been supported by a trilogy of novels, often with an accompanying anthology sharing the same trade dress. I'm less clear on what gaming materials have supported them beyond the big ones like the new campaign guide level material that came with the Time of Troubles and the Spellplague.
So, the RSEs I can think of are those I just mentioned, which marked, in rules set terms the switch from AD&D to 2nd Edition and from 3.0/3.5 to what is now Dungeons & Dragons.
What are the others? And how were they reflected in gaming terms? For instances, there was that Threat From the Sea trilogy and accompanying anthology. Was it an RSE? If so, were there gaming materials released explaining or supporting it? Or outlining significant (or "shaking") changes to the Realms?
What fiction, if any supported and explained the shifts from 2nd Edition to 3rd and from 3rd to 3.5?
Cheers,
Christopher
What fiction, if any supported and explained the shifts from 2nd Edition to 3rd and from 3rd to 3.5?
-None. The closest there is would be Windwalker, which describes a possible theory as to why the Drow changed.
-As for RSEs, (Realms Shaking Events) there are very few, in reality:
- The Time of Troubles
- The Rage of the Dragon (which was handled quite aptly, in a way that, I feel, most found satisfactory)
- The Spellplague
-As for RSEs, (Region Shaking Events), there are quite a few more:
- The Twilight War
- The Tearfall of 1,374 DR
- The War of Blingdenstone
- The Elven Crusade
- The Founding of Many-Arrows
-There's plenty of others, but those are just off the top of my head.
- The Twilight War
Prior to that, the Return of Shade.
- The Tearfall of 1,374 DR
For the record, this event is officially known as the Rain of Fire :P
For the record, this event is officially known as the Rain of Fire :P
-Good to know BRJ! :P
18DELTA
-Good to know BRJ! :P
18DELTA
By all accounts, 18D, you should have known this already.
I'm disappointed.
I stopped reading the novels years ago becuase I was sick and tired of Drizzt books and uneven quality in the main FR books. Looks like I missed a lot of big stuff goiing on.
I remember thinking the Avatar trilogy books were interesting but not really liking either the writing style or really what happened that much. The stakes were so big that I read all three books though just to see what happened.
That was my first and only RSE. I much preferred fiction like the Finder's Stone trilogy or the Moonshae books.
I gather RSEs really sell books then?
I gather RSEs really sell books then?
So much so that we got 4e by some accounts.
I gather RSEs really sell books then?
-Which would you rather read: Cormyrian Farmer with Pitchfork #2 travels to town, and gets swindled by a city slicker, or a group of Shade Hunters infiltrating the Shade Enclave, tampering with the mythallar of the city, and then attempting to take out one of the High Princes of the city in a suicidal rush?
-Which would you rather read: Cormyrian Farmer with Pitchfork #2 travels to town, and gets swindled by a city slicker, or a group of Shade Hunters infiltrating the Shade Enclave, tampering with the mythallar of the city, and then attempting to take out one of the High Princes of the city in a suicidal rush?
Thats a good point but there doesnt have to be that big of an extreme difference. I just finished reading the novel The Nether Scroll and it didnt have a RSE and it wasnt about boring things like farmers, really.
-Which would you rather read: Cormyrian Farmer with Pitchfork #2 travels to town, and gets swindled by a city slicker, or a group of Shade Hunters infiltrating the Shade Enclave, tampering with the mythallar of the city, and then attempting to take out one of the High Princes of the city in a suicidal rush?
I am with DaveSaunders on this on LK, you have taken that distinction to extremis when the proof of the point doesn't really need it. Novels can be impactful in both the emotional and action based senses without being about RSEs or farmers.
A quick example of this is the focus on a single character or group of characters. I would refer to Darkwalker on Moonshae which I have just finished reading but that tends towards Region Shaking eve if it isn't Realms shaking.
Take... the attack on and flight of the young Alusair in the Swords of Dragonfire. It isn't a Realms or even Region shaking event but because I have read a great deal about and enjoy the characters of Alusair and Florin greatly I would enjoy the book even if scenes like that were all that it was made up of. I don't need tales that shake continents or even countries... in fact I wish there weren't any... less criticism to be levelled at the novels that way. :D
Regardless of the extremity of the example, I think you got LK's point... which was probably extreme intentionally knowing him. Its an extreme time we're in at the moment, and moderation seems to be in extraordinarily short supply for some reason.
Oh I am almost certain of it, Stigger. However making an example extreme may well help clarify the point but it also runs the risk of polarizing the response. Hence my suggestion of a middle ground. The time is indeed extreme and the lack of moderation is one reason that I am posting less these days. Especially on the Realmslore board.
-Iluvrien, you don't know the story of Cormyrian Farmer with Pitchfork #2, do you?
Nope but if you are comparing that to a tale about Alusair or Florin then you have a fight on your hands, buddy. ;)
Which is to make a point about RSEs. We don't need them if there are characters that we give a damn about and they are written well that said, a good way to collate these events, Mr Rowe would be to use something like the "books by series" list at the Forgotten Realms Library and then identify which ones could be attributed to which series and how their "magnitude" could be enumerated.
So much so that we got 4e by some accounts.
Heh. well it's like a lot of IPs out there - owner wants to reinvent to attract some new blood without (hopefully) alienating the old guard.
Heh. well it's like a lot of IPs out there - owner wants to reinvent to attract some new blood without (hopefully) alienating the old guard.
Didn't work.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate 4e, RSE's, or Eliminster's retarded ability to get all the babes. Just think it was all done wrong.
All the same, to my point, RSE's were a large part of the excuse to make this 100 year leap into the post Spellplague era.
Nope but if you are comparing that to a tale about Alusair or Florin then you have a fight on your hands, buddy. ;)
-Here's the long and short of it:
GothicDan (One of the "old school" posters, who stopped posting because of his dislike for 4e, as well as real-life college stuff [He's also a physicist. You'd probably like him]), in a thread about a Forgotten Realms movie, said that he'd direct it. I mentioned that, in the script, I'd like a cameo as someone in the background, Cormyrian Farmer with Pitchfork #2. The entire thing degenerated into it somehow being a porno, starring said Cormyrian Farmer with Pitchfork #2 and all Seven Sisters...
-A few other RSEs (Regional Shaking Events) that I just thought of:
- The Silence of Lolth
- The Destruction of Zhentil Keep
- The Zhentarim takeover of Hillsfar
[*]The Silence of Lolth
Didn't we at one point debate this--not just you and me, but the masses? I still don't see this as a RSE. Outside the Underdark, there was really no affect.
Didn't we at one point debate this--not just you and me, but the masses? I still don't see this as a RSE. Outside the Underdark, there was really no affect.
-That's why I said it was a RSE (Regional Shaking Event), and not a RSE (Realms Shaking Event).
-That's why I said it was a RSE (Regional Shaking Event), and not a RSE (Realms Shaking Event).
Aasimaar!
Death of Azoun (not major, but it shook up Cormyr)
Threat from the Sea (largely ignored, but still deserves a place)
Rise of Mulhurand (3e FRCS, reshaped the entire region)
Return of the Archwizards (Shade trilogy)
Finder Wyvernspur's Ascension (again, minor)
Return of Mezro (Chult specific)
Horde invasion (one of the first RSEs)
Discovery of Maztica (again, one of the first RSEs)
-The invasion of the Tuigan, I'd call that a RSE (Realms Shaking Event), even though there wasn't much actually being shaken. It was a world-wide event, with repercussions being felt in Cormyr, Sembia, Thay, Rashemen, Shou Lung, the Hordelands...
- The Destruction of Zhentil Keep
Which time? Honestly, this is one 4E change to the Realms I'm still shaking my head over. Really, Zhentil Keep is ruined... again?
Thanks for the suggestions! And keep the on topic posts coming!
My idea is that we should include anything that has a significant amount of description and support both in fiction and in gaming products--it doesn't really matter which comes first.
I'll go back in and edit the first entry in the thread to list entries for each one we come up with data on--probably using those little boxes to hide the bibliographical data for each event (once I figure out how to do that :D ).
I'll paste in my idea for a format (and my stab at two entries based on what y'all have posted) below.
How about going forward, people propose an event, and then list the sources where it's described? Then I'll pop that info into this format (or another if y'all want something else) and add it to the list in the first entry, probably in the order in which they occur along the FR timeline.
So have at it!
Cheers,
Christopher
------------------
The Darkwalker War and the founding of the Kendrick Dynasty of High Kings
What happened? Following the events of the Darkwalker War, Tristan Kendrick became High King of the Moonshaes, uniting the Ffolk under single rule for the first time in over 400 years.
When did it occur? The Years of the Saddle and of the Bloodbird (1345-46 DR)
Where is it described in fiction? The Moonshae Trilogy.
Where is it described in gaming products? The sourcebook FR2 Moonshae and the article "Grand History of the Realms: The Moonshaes."
Bibliography of Sources:
Black Wizards, the Second Book of the Moonshaes, by Douglas Niles (1988).
Darkwalker on Moonshae, the First Book of the Moonshaes, by Douglas Niles (1987).
Darkwell, the Third Book of the Moonshaes, by Douglas Niles (1989).
FR2 Moonshae, by Douglas Niles (1987).
"Grand History of the Realms: The Moonshaes" by Brian R. James. Dragon 362 (10 January 2008).
The Time of Troubles
What happened? The overgod Ao forced all other deities to fully invest themselves within earthly avatars on Faerûn. This led to disruptions in both divine and arcane magic, and, ultimately to the deaths of several deities and divine ascensions of several mortals. This series of events is now seen as marking the end of one of the great epochs of the history of the Realms, the Age of Humanity, and the beginning of another, the current Era of Upheaval.
When did it occur? The Year of the Shadow (1358 DR)
Where is it described in fiction? The Avatar Trilogy.
Where is it described in gaming products? The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, 2nd Edition; the adventures Shadowdale, Tantras, and Waterdeep; and the sourcebooks Faiths and Avatars and Forgotten Realms Adventures.
Bibliography of Sources
Faiths and Avatars by Julia Martin with Eric Boyd (1996).
Forgotten Realms Adventures by Jeff Grubb and Ed Greenwood (1990).
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, 2nd Edition by Jeff Grubb, Ed Greenwood, and Julia Martin (1993).
Shadowdale, the First Book of the Avatars, as by "Richard Awlinson" (Scott Ciencin) (1989).
Shadowdale, an adventure by Ed Greenwood (1989).
Tantras, the Second Book of the Avatars, as by "Richard Awlinson" (Scott Ciencin) (1989).
Tantras, an adventure by Ed Greenwood (1989).
Waterdeep, the Third Book of the Avatars, as by "Richard Awlinson" (Troy Denning) (1989).
Waterdeep, an adventure by Ed Greenwood (1989).
Which time? Honestly, this is one 4E change to the Realms I'm still shaking my head over. Really, Zhentil Keep is ruined... again?
-I was thinking the first time. By the second time, and afterwards, it's nothing new anymore. I bet the people don't even bother evacuating anymore.
"Yup...Just another day here at Zhentil Keep..."
-I was thinking the first time. By the second time, and afterwards, it's nothing new anymore. I bet the people don't even bother evacuating anymore.
"Yup...Just another day here at Zhentil Keep..."
Yup. Ditto, Brian R.
-I was thinking the first time. By the second time, and afterwards, it's nothing new anymore. I bet the people don't even bother evacuating anymore.
"Yup...Just another day here at Zhentil Keep..."
They prolly do not evacuate but that does not stop them from putting on their tinfoil hats and ducking under a table.
They prolly do not evacuate but that does not stop them from putting on their tinfoil hats and ducking under a table.
And we got Katrina! Yeah!
Which time? Honestly, this is one 4E change to the Realms I'm still shaking my head over. Really, Zhentil Keep is ruined... again?
You know why I like you and Rich Baker?
Because you guys are very honest about some of the 4e stuff.
When I read that tidbit for the first time, I didn't know weather to laugh or cry. I loved it when it fell the first time (and went right out to buy The Ruins of Zhentil Keep), and then a few months later it was as-if nothing had ever happened.
"The COMPLETE and UTTER destruction of our base of operations? Minor set-back..."
I was so mad when it came back... but then I read that it is gone again, and now I'm like "ohhhhh... it's a Soap-Opera character! NOW I get it!".
Seriously, what was the point of that? There was a little too much of that 'doing-stuff-just-for-the-sake-of-doing-stuff' going on there in the FRCG. Zhentil Keep being taken over by an old and crusty Manshoon-Lich fused with his armor? Now thats *Kewl*!!! Zhentil Keep getting easily knocked-over by a bunch of new-comer archmage wannabes... I'm just not buying it.
So much could have been done with the Keep in 4e, to make it a really cool locale, and instead it was just sorta 'erased'.
On Topic:
Someone mentioned the Death of Azoun, but I would roll that all together with the return of the Dragon - there was really a series of three (four?) events going on there simultaneously that left that country in hardship.
1) Dragon Returns
2) The Gazneths (sp?)
3) The Death of Azoun
4) The Goblins of Grodd (which is asociated with #1, but a seperate thing, really)
Its cynicism like that which killed the Realms, that nothing could really be good, and that sinister ulterior motives lurked beneath every smile and kind word. Tis sad really, that altruism is so mistrusted and denied to truly exist... the heavens should weep at the state of man's lack of faith in something better. And so was wrought the Spellplague.
