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Redemption for Selvetarm

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Slad_Chaos
Jun 17, 2008 6:25:13 Hello,

From Faith & Pantheons p.113 :
When Selvetarm defeated and absorbed the demon, he was overwhelmed by Zanassu's evil and fell into Lolth's mental traps. He now serves her utterly.
#2
lord_karsus
Jun 17, 2008 8:12:29 -All of that is totally up to you, as DM.

-That said, just to bring it up, Selvatarm is dead, in the canon Realms. Make of that tidbit as you will.

-Information about Selvetarm, and One Thousand Broken Dreams can be found in Elves of Faerûn.
#3
Slad_Chaos
Jun 17, 2008 8:18:03 Your link : Elves of Faerun ?
#4
lord_karsus
Jun 17, 2008 8:23:42 -In the signature.
#5
Slad_Chaos
Jun 17, 2008 8:46:03 Ok, in what section described the dead of Selvetarm, please ?

Is it the story for the deities to pass 3.5 in 4 th edition ?

what means "Sava, a Drow board game" ?
#6
lord_karsus
Jun 17, 2008 8:48:12
Ok, in what section described the dead of Selvetarm, please ?

Is it the story for the deities to pass 3.5 in 4 th edition ?

-That story is told in the Lady Penitent Trilogy books. The first one in the series, to be specific, Sacrifice of the Widow.

-Part of the reason a lot of the stuff in those books happened the way it did is probably because of the 3e to 4e change, yes.
#7
ranielk
Jun 17, 2008 9:19:03
Hello,

From Faith & Pantheons p.113 :

A character, follower of Eilistraee wants to save Selvetarm. He wants that Selvetarm turned to good and join Eilistraee to fight against the other evils drow deities.

Is it possible to extract the evil essence of Zanassu from Selvetarm ?

Are there a spell for the mortals to extract the evil essence ? If yes, what spell, please ?

From Magic of Faerun p. 143 :

The character wants to find One Thousand Broken Dreams and uses 999 moonstones to redeem Selvetarm.

Thanks for your future answer.

Ummmm, just a technicality, but for Atonement to work, doesn't the recipient have to want to atone?

I'm picturing the movie Constantine where John is administering the Catholic Last Rites to a half-demon as torture (how much fun would it be to be a demon in heaven?). The half-demon cracks and spills the beans. John smirks and points out to be forgiven you must be repentant. The Last Rites would have no affect on the unrepentant half-demon. The half-demon dies of its wounds howling in frustration at being tricked so thoroughly.

Now, I could see using the moonstones harvested from the use of One Thousand Broken Dreams in some Epic Ritual to shift Selvetarm slightly away from evil, thus giving him the chance to decide to atone. Outright atonement would require his willing participation. I'd love to see the diplomacy check on that!
#8
suin_bahhar_02
Jun 17, 2008 11:46:41 This idea is METAL!

999 Moonstones eh? That sounds like a frikkin WICKED METALSONG! (Although 99 Moonstones mouthes better)

When a goodaligned drow draws that sword, do those stones scatter ethereally to the far winds? Or can they be caught easily...
#9
Stigger
Jun 17, 2008 12:16:44 A Sanctify the Wicked spell from the Book of Exalted Deeds properly modified could conceivably do it with a powerful enough caster... maybe converting it into an Epic Sanctified spell would probably be a better solution.
#10
rinonalyrna_fathomlin
Jun 17, 2008 20:03:23
The character wants to find One Thousand Broken Dreams and uses 999 moonstones to redeem Selvetarm.

I think that's a great idea, go for it!
#11
ranielk
Jun 17, 2008 20:32:59
A Sanctify the Wicked spell from the Book of Exalted Deeds properly modified could conceivably do it with a powerful enough caster... maybe converting it into an Epic Sanctified spell would probably be a better solution.

That would do it. It would need to be Epic, but it would work.
#12
Stigger
Jun 18, 2008 0:19:46 Presuming you can get the DC/Attack-versus-Defense high enough to get through that whole Divine Being thing, it should.
#13
Slad_Chaos
Jun 18, 2008 1:49:13 Are there a book describing the stats for Selvetarm ?
#14
valgard
Jun 18, 2008 2:33:51
Are there a book describing the stats for Selvetarm ?

No, at least, not official ones.
#15
zanan
Jun 18, 2008 3:25:09 As has been said, at home you can do whatever you like. Within Realmspace, it is still open who killed the deity, Cavatina with the sword or Lolth at that divine sava board. I'd doubt that the Demon Queen will ever release his soul (if he had one) though. The one way we know of in returning a deity is starting a cult and pray to him/her/it. Redemption would imply that he was a "neutral" or "good" dark elf before he fell under Lolth's sway and to the "evil" of Zanassu. That said, Selvetarm never was a dark elf in the first place, AFAIK. So I doubt that any redemption - as with the drow - would actually work. That's from the lore perspective.
#16
lord_karsus
Jun 19, 2008 14:46:16
Are there a book describing the stats for Selvetarm ?

-Demihuman Deities, a 2e book, has the stats for his avatar. Since it's his avatar, you could multiply those stats by two or three, or something, and get an approximation, in theory.
#17
zanan
Jun 23, 2008 3:37:15
-Demihuman Deities, a 2e book, has the stats for his avatar. Since it's his avatar, you could multiply those stats by two or three, or something, and get an approximation, in theory.

Well, for some reason, 3E did it vice versa. The old avatars, of whom the deities had inbetween 1 and 5 at a time, were more often than not more powerful than the deities statted in F&P and the like. For example, Lolth's avatar (one of four at the same time, methinks) had the powers of a Cleric 33 / Mage 31 / Fighter 20. Which is, IMHO about right for an "avatar" of an intermediate deity. A deity itself needs no stats at all. At the end of 3RE, they adopted as similar attitude again, "introducing" the "aspects" of Abyssal Lords et al.
#18
lord_karsus
Jun 23, 2008 10:02:36
For example, Lolth's avatar (one of four at the same time, methinks) had the powers of a Cleric 33 / Mage 31 / Fighter 20. Which is, IMHO about right for an "avatar" of an intermediate deity. A deity itself needs no stats at all.

-Agreed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Slad_Chaos Jun 17, 2008 6:25:13	Hello, From Faith & Pantheons p.113 : When Selvetarm defeated and absorbed the demon, he was overwhelmed by Zanassu's evil and fell into Lolth's mental traps. He now serves her utterly.
#2 lord_karsus Jun 17, 2008 8:12:29	-All of that is totally up to you, as DM. -That said, just to bring it up, Selvatarm is dead, in the canon Realms. Make of that tidbit as you will. -Information about Selvetarm, and One Thousand Broken Dreams can be found in Elves of Faerûn.
#3 Slad_Chaos Jun 17, 2008 8:18:03	Your link : Elves of Faerun ?
#4 lord_karsus Jun 17, 2008 8:23:42	-In the signature.
#5 Slad_Chaos Jun 17, 2008 8:46:03	Ok, in what section described the dead of Selvetarm, please ? Is it the story for the deities to pass 3.5 in 4 th edition ? what means "Sava, a Drow board game" ?
#6 lord_karsus Jun 17, 2008 8:48:12	Ok, in what section described the dead of Selvetarm, please ? Is it the story for the deities to pass 3.5 in 4 th edition ? -That story is told in the Lady Penitent Trilogy books. The first one in the series, to be specific, Sacrifice of the Widow. -Part of the reason a lot of the stuff in those books happened the way it did is probably because of the 3e to 4e change, yes.
#7 ranielk Jun 17, 2008 9:19:03	Hello, From Faith & Pantheons p.113 : A character, follower of Eilistraee wants to save Selvetarm. He wants that Selvetarm turned to good and join Eilistraee to fight against the other evils drow deities. Is it possible to extract the evil essence of Zanassu from Selvetarm ? Are there a spell for the mortals to extract the evil essence ? If yes, what spell, please ? From Magic of Faerun p. 143 : The character wants to find One Thousand Broken Dreams and uses 999 moonstones to redeem Selvetarm. Thanks for your future answer. Ummmm, just a technicality, but for Atonement to work, doesn't the recipient have to want to atone? I'm picturing the movie Constantine where John is administering the Catholic Last Rites to a half-demon as torture (how much fun would it be to be a demon in heaven?). The half-demon cracks and spills the beans. John smirks and points out to be forgiven you must be repentant. The Last Rites would have no affect on the unrepentant half-demon. The half-demon dies of its wounds howling in frustration at being tricked so thoroughly. Now, I could see using the moonstones harvested from the use of One Thousand Broken Dreams in some Epic Ritual to shift Selvetarm slightly away from evil, thus giving him the chance to decide to atone. Outright atonement would require his willing participation. I'd love to see the diplomacy check on that!
#8 suin_bahhar_02 Jun 17, 2008 11:46:41	This idea is METAL! 999 Moonstones eh? That sounds like a frikkin WICKED METALSONG! (Although 99 Moonstones mouthes better) When a goodaligned drow draws that sword, do those stones scatter ethereally to the far winds? Or can they be caught easily...
#9 Stigger Jun 17, 2008 12:16:44	A Sanctify the Wicked spell from the Book of Exalted Deeds properly modified could conceivably do it with a powerful enough caster... maybe converting it into an Epic Sanctified spell would probably be a better solution.
#10 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Jun 17, 2008 20:03:23	The character wants to find One Thousand Broken Dreams and uses 999 moonstones to redeem Selvetarm. I think that's a great idea, go for it!
#11 ranielk Jun 17, 2008 20:32:59	A Sanctify the Wicked spell from the Book of Exalted Deeds properly modified could conceivably do it with a powerful enough caster... maybe converting it into an Epic Sanctified spell would probably be a better solution. That would do it. It would need to be Epic, but it would work.
#12 Stigger Jun 18, 2008 0:19:46	Presuming you can get the DC/Attack-versus-Defense high enough to get through that whole Divine Being thing, it should.
#13 Slad_Chaos Jun 18, 2008 1:49:13	Are there a book describing the stats for Selvetarm ?
#14 valgard Jun 18, 2008 2:33:51	Are there a book describing the stats for Selvetarm ? No, at least, not official ones.
#15 zanan Jun 18, 2008 3:25:09	As has been said, at home you can do whatever you like. Within Realmspace, it is still open who killed the deity, Cavatina with the sword or Lolth at that divine sava board. I'd doubt that the Demon Queen will ever release his soul (if he had one) though. The one way we know of in returning a deity is starting a cult and pray to him/her/it. Redemption would imply that he was a "neutral" or "good" dark elf before he fell under Lolth's sway and to the "evil" of Zanassu. That said, Selvetarm never was a dark elf in the first place, AFAIK. So I doubt that any redemption - as with the drow - would actually work. That's from the lore perspective.
#16 lord_karsus Jun 19, 2008 14:46:16	Are there a book describing the stats for Selvetarm ? -Demihuman Deities, a 2e book, has the stats for his avatar. Since it's his avatar, you could multiply those stats by two or three, or something, and get an approximation, in theory.
#17 zanan Jun 23, 2008 3:37:15	-Demihuman Deities, a 2e book, has the stats for his avatar. Since it's his avatar, you could multiply those stats by two or three, or something, and get an approximation, in theory. Well, for some reason, 3E did it vice versa. The old avatars, of whom the deities had inbetween 1 and 5 at a time, were more often than not more powerful than the deities statted in F&P and the like. For example, Lolth's avatar (one of four at the same time, methinks) had the powers of a Cleric 33 / Mage 31 / Fighter 20. Which is, IMHO about right for an "avatar" of an intermediate deity. A deity itself needs no stats at all. At the end of 3RE, they adopted as similar attitude again, "introducing" the "aspects" of Abyssal Lords et al.
#18 lord_karsus Jun 23, 2008 10:02:36	For example, Lolth's avatar (one of four at the same time, methinks) had the powers of a Cleric 33 / Mage 31 / Fighter 20. Which is, IMHO about right for an "avatar" of an intermediate deity. A deity itself needs no stats at all. -Agreed.