Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 redglacier Jan 02, 2009 2:06:14	Just what the thread title says. Keep in mind: -It's still a skeleton -I'm not a great writer, so don't expect Ed-like descriptions -I don't mind questions Table of Contents -Random Stuff -The Past(Distant & 1375-1479 DR) -Nations -Organizations -Deities -Races -Planar Stuff
#2 redglacier Jan 02, 2009 2:11:36	Random Stuff Nothing yet
#3 redglacier Jan 02, 2009 2:15:51	The Past(Distant & 1375-1479 DR) WARNING: no literary qualities whatsoever are likely to be found in this section. The(crudely described) Distant Past Realmspace didn't come into being until, long, looooooong ago, Ao was hired to build and maintain it(basically, Ao doesn't own Realmspace, he's just the guy in charge of it.) After getting the hardware from four different stores (Akadi's, Grumbar's, Istishia's, and Kossuth's) on credit("should there ever be intelligent life there, we can get some of its worship"), Ao assembled realmspace. At first, there was just a lot of emptiness(Shar), a cool, blue giant of a star(Selune), and a disk of random matter orbiting that star. It was a pretty sweet rig, and it ran without a hitch(Shar and Selune got along.) Eventually, the stray matter started clumping together into big, chunky round thingies, eventually forming six planets(Anadia, Colliar, Abeir-Toril, Karpri, Chandos, and Glyth.) They were quiet children, so neither Shar nor Selune minded, becoming over time quite attached to their children. So far so good; Realmspace still ran smoothly. Eventually, a voice rang out. Chauntea(or wathever nickname Abeir-Toril had then) wanted to make life of her own, and demanded warmth in order to do so. Shar was far too comfy to want that, of course, so Selune, not wanting to fight her sister/lover/lifepartner(don't dwell on the Ickiness of that too long), sadly denied Chauntea's request. The five other children learned to talk too, and they added their voice to Chauntea's pleas. Finally, compassion overtook Selune(Servants of Shar say it was exasperation), and while her sister rested Selune warmed up, to the delight of the children, who quickly set off to work. Chauntea herself sired three children(we know them now as Talos, Umberlee, and Ibrandul.) The planets and their offspring then made toys for themselves, but these were misshappen, violent, and unruly, so the children grew bored and abandoned them. Eventually Shar woke up in great discomfort, and when she found out what happened, she became quite p***ed! Thus began the legendary conflict between the two sisters, which spawned yet more gods. During those intervening years, the gods tried to create the first primitive forms of mortal life. But the violent, everpresent energies surrounding everything(raw magic) burned these alive as soon as they were created, and the very, very few that were somehow immune(through pure chance) Shar herself snuffed out. At last a tiring Selune took a part of herself and threw it at Shar, tearing a part of her away, a single being coalesced from those two parts who had great control over raw magic. While an exhausted Selune took refuge near her children(abandoning her first shape and becoming the rings and moons surrounding them), the newborn Mystril took a shape of her own, blanketing Realmspace and, by her very existence, filtering raw magic into something less deadly. Mystril then turned the small, weakened blue star into a fiercely bright, hot yellow one. It gained a mind of its own, ant thus Amaunator came into being. Shar could not stand the brightness and warmth, and so retreated. That conflict ended, but the war would never end, even if it became a covert one. Now life could truly begin, for as long as Mystril lived, raw magic would not burst forth to twist and kill the gods' mortal creations. To be continued
#4 redglacier Jan 02, 2009 2:52:14	Nations Regions --ANAUROCH-- Border Forest Evereska Netheril's Folly --CHULTAN PENINSULA-- Chult Samarach Tashalar Isles Thindol --COLD LANDS-- Damara Impiltur Narfel Sossal Vaasa --THE HEARTLANDS-- Cormyr the Dales Dragon Coast Moonsea Pirate Isle the Ride Sembia Thar the Vast --ISLAND KINGDOMS-- Evermeet Lantan Moonshae Isles Nelanther Isles Nimbral Ruathym --LANDS OF INTRIGUE-- Amn Calimshan Tethyr Tharsult Wealdath --THE NORTH-- Goblin Holds Hartsvale High Forest Icewind Dale Silver Marches Sword Coast(includes Waterdeep) Western Heartlands --OLD EMPIRES-- the Alaor Chessenta Ixinos Mulhorand Murghom Threskel Unther --THE SHINING SOUTH-- Border Kingdoms Dambrath Durpar Estagund Goldlands Halruaa Ironwall Lake of Steam Lapaliiya Luiren Rethild the Rift Sea the Shaar Var the Golden Veldorn --UNAPPROACHABLE EAST-- Aglarond the Great Dale Rashemen Thay Thesk Yuir --UTTER EAST-- Hordelands Imaskar Raurin Desert Semphar Ulgarth Yaimunnahar --VILHON REACH-- Chondath the Emerald Wilds the Shining Plains Turmish
#5 redglacier Jan 02, 2009 2:53:46	Organizations Nothing Yet
#6 redglacier Jan 02, 2009 2:55:37	Deities Rank -Greater Deities(G):Often(but not always) the head of a pantheon. Known by practically everyone on the face of Faerun. Numerous temples. Many worshippers and/or massive influence on the world. -Intermediate Deities(I):Well-known. Independant of, but often allied with, greater deities. -Lesser Deities(L):relatively well-known, generally known by the race(s) worshipping in their pantheon. Serve more powerful deities, but are given great leeway in the execution of their duty.. They have at least one Temple on the face of Abeir-Toril -Demigod(D):relatively well-known, generally known by the race(s) worshipping in their pantheon. Serve more powerful deities, owing a varying portion of the worship they receive to their master. They have at least one Temple on the face of Abeir-Toril. -Quasideities(Q): Known as Exarchs or Saints, they are divine servants of the deities, whose names are well known to the clergy of the individual deity they serve. Their names are often lent to various divine orders within a church. Saints are mortals whose exceptional deeds in life earned them a place as a favored servant of their god in the afterlife, and whose exploits have become legends of the faith.(4E's Demigod Epic Path leads to this status.) Exarchs are outsiders(extraplanar immortal beings) whose exploits in service to their deity have become legends of the faith.
#7 redglacier Jan 02, 2009 2:57:17	Races Nothing yet
#8 redglacier Jan 02, 2009 2:58:53	Planar Stuff Nothing yet
#9 quale1 Jan 03, 2009 11:11:41	CALIMSHAN -Most purebreed calishite fled by boat to Zakahara (and they want their land back!) interesting, I have something similar, the Shoon empire had colonies in Zakhara, and they outlived it, they have lots of ash genasi slaves also the Twisted Rune is there cause it's an undead continent, but they aren't nationalistic like the Shoonites DAMBRATH I also decided to place shifters there, having some Crinti remnants in the Corsair isles is a good idea Meriadar is a perfect choice for Veldorn, tough I'd use him as the protector of the poor monsters against the Scarlet Brotherhood Netherese enclave off-shore of Lantan is also good, wonder what they would do with the place, using their mechanics I like what you did with Vaasa, Melantholep, that's one of the most inspiring places in Abyss, and vs. Levistus
#10 lord_karsus Jan 04, 2009 0:35:38	-I'd suggest linking individual posts to the original post.
#11 redglacier Jan 04, 2009 0:39:50	interesting, I have something similar, the Shoon empire had colonies in Zakhara, and they outlived it, they have lots of ash genasi slaves also the Twisted Rune is there cause it's an undead continent, but they aren't nationalistic like the Shoonites Neat. I sent the Calishite fleeing there because I wanted the Myhtic Arabia theme squarely in Zakhara, but also because I'm not using Akanul and I wanted the Genasi to have a homeland. In my game there was no land-switching with "Returned Abeir"(I'm not calling it that in my game), so refugees from there are adapting to their new land, rather than founding kingdoms left and right. I also decided to place shifters there, having some Crinti remnants in the Corsair isles is a good idea Thank MarkusTay for the Crinti/corsair isles idea. His maps are really good, too. Meriadar is a perfect choice for Veldorn, tough I'd use him as the protector of the poor monsters against the Scarlet Brotherhood Forgot about the SB. I'll add it to my game, with an order of the church of Meriadar fighting it. Netherese enclave off-shore of Lantan is also good, wonder what they would do with the place, using their mechanics Right now, they're(barely) defending the small part of the enclave they control, making warforged, and looking for much-needed help from abroad(hint, hint.) I like what you did with Vaasa, Melantholep, that's one of the most inspiring places in Abyss, and vs. Levistus Yep. When I read about chole dragons in Dragon #344, it thought they(and the mystery of their native abyssal layer) was a great concept. Later on I read Dragons of Faerun, and the section on Prothanter(page 30) caught my eyes. The gold great wyrm was(as of 1374DR) fighting "ice demons, strange tentacle-covered dragons and mutated giants" that had emerged from a newly formed rift in the southern part of the Great Glacier. I taught connecting the two stories would be cool. When they previewed 4e Vaasa, I thought the warlock-knights were a good idea, but Telos didn't appeal to me. Then my Melanthotep/Prothanter idea came back to me, and suddenly 4e Vaasa was much, much more interesting. For Levistus, it all started with a fansite for Planescape I saw, where one of Levistus' aliases was Leviathan... Later, as I was trying to figure out how to rationalize the succubi suddenly serving the Nine Hells, I figured I would have Asmodeus(needing a replacement for the Erinyes, who had felt the divine call to service) strike a deal with Malcanthet, Queen of Succubi. So now I had a new Lord of the Nine, but who do I depose to make way for her? But what if Levistus wasn't just a powerful devil, but something more? Something Asmodeus would have wanted on his side, because that being had a foothold on many, many a world, even if the King of Hell had to make it forget its true nature? So add the Spellplague restoring Levistus' memories, and you get him freeing himself through sheer rage, vowing revenge on Asmodeus(and a few other Lords of the Nine), and fleeing the Nine Hells for parts unknown. So I have Abeir-Toril's Leviathan sleeping in the Great Ice Sea, with Levistus looking to wake this body up so he can wreak bloody vengeance on his former jailers. Leading to two rival factions among the warlock-knights and a few... ambiguous choices for PCs. After all, while the cultists of Levistus are quite evil, the goal of their patron is(when all is said and done) to get a great threat to the material plane's existence out of Realmspace, and into a vile, corrupt plane where it would do much damage before it is(perhaps) put down.:D
#12 redglacier Jan 04, 2009 1:14:57	-I'd suggest linking individual posts to the original post. Good Idea. I'll start doing that once I have enough posts up. By the way, does anybody know the number of the Dragon magazine that had lore about several elven demigods in it? I'd like to know so I can get it and include them in my expanded Elven Pantheon.
#13 lord_karsus Jan 04, 2009 1:19:29	-DRAGON 236 and 251 (the second one, I'm not 100% sure).
#14 redglacier Jan 04, 2009 1:42:57	I'll post brief notes about my(not yet complete) Elven Pantheon now. -Names in () means those deities aren't considered part of the elven pantheon, but are sometimes worshiped by elves. Technically, elves(or any mortal, for that matter) don't have to pick a patron deity from their racial pantheon, but the majority of them do(the overwhelming majority, in the Elves' case.) Quick List: Aerdrie Faenya CG Alobal Lorfiril CG Corellon Larethian CG Deep Sashelas CG Eilistraee CG Elebrin Liothiel CG Erevan Ilesere CN Fenmarel Mestarine CN Hanali Celanil CG Labelas Enoreth CG Rillifane Rallathil CG Sehanine Moonbow CG Selvetarm CN Solonor Thelandira CG Tarsellis Meunniduin CN Vandria Gilmadrith LN (Mielikki) NG Worshipped in elven lands only by small cults of half-elves, who know her as Khalreshaar. (Shevarash) CE Went off the deep end(with a small push by Shar;) ) after he learned of the ongoing redemption of the drow. (Vhaeraun) CN Part of the drow pantheon, but worshipped by some dark elves. (Zinzerena) CN Part of the drow pantheon, but worshipped by some dark elves. Serves Vhaeraun. Brief overview The end of the non-faerunian human pantheons of Toril also meant the end of their respective cosmologies, allowing elven gods(old & new) not present on the Faerunian continent to reunite with the Seldarine. Lesser Elven deities do not serve a higher deity. It's just not in the Seldarine's nature to do such a thing. Show Aerdrie Faenya CG Intermediate goddess(rising) Favored Weapon:Quarterstaff Worshiper alignments allowed: CG NG CN N Clergy alignments allowed: CG CN Portfolios: Air, weather, rain, fertility. Patron of the Avariel(winged Elves.) Notes: The many earthmotes that appeared in the skies of Toril signaled a welcome opportunity for revival in the Avariel race(& many other avian races.) Establishing new homes in the sky, the Avariel of the Aerie of the Snow Eagles have spread beyond their last redoubt(in the Icerim Mountains of Sossal), aided by other avian creatures and races in scouting for and bringing back to the skies(and civilization) wild Winged Elves tribes, who for millennia have lived fearful, miserable and(worst of all), landbound lives, fearful of the dragon attacks that decimated the race long before the first Crown War. The race is now fast recovering, and the Winged Mother is more joyful than she has been in a long time. Alobal Lorfiril CG Lesser god(rising) Favored Weapon: Dagger Worshipper alignments allowed: Any nonevil Clergy alignments allowed: CG CN Portfolios:Hedonism, Mirth, Revelry Notes:{I took him from Races of the Wild(p.30)} Alobal only recently reunited with the Seldarine, having stayed in the Feywild for all those millennia, where he survived thanks to the worship of the fey(which, given his portfolio, isn't surprising.) Sildeyuir's shunting into the plane alerted him to the survival of the elven race(The Queen of Air and Darkness and her minions had slaughtered what few elves remained in the Feywild after Tintageer's end.) The celebrations that sparked in many elf lands(notably over Netheril's end, Cormanthyr's refounding, the Wealdath's reclamation, Yuir's independence, the Avariel's revival, the end of the wild elves' isolation, and Sildeyuir's rebuilding, among others) have ensured the swift rebirth of his faith in elven lands. Corellon Larethian CG Greater god(rising) Favored Weapon:Longsword Worshipper alignments allowed: Any nonevil Clergy alignments allowed: Any good Portfolios: Elves, magic, music, elven high magic, crafts. Patron of the Sun Elves. Notes: Not much change, except he's quite happy nowadays(elven civilization renewed vigor, return of old friends to the Seldarine, Eilistraee's return to Arvandor, Selvetarm's redemption, Vhaeraun's shift to CN, Dark elves returning, etc...) Deep Sashelas CG Intermediate god(stable) Favored Weapon:Trident Worshipper alignments allowed:Any nonevil Clergy alignments allowed:CG NG CN N Portfolios: Oceans, creation, water magic, sailors. Patron of Sea Elves. Notes:After a disastrous few decades(especially in the Sea of Fallen Stars), his children are recovering, thanks to new alliances(with Umberlee, who is now CN) and a new homeland in the Rift Sea. Eilistraee CG Intermediate goddess(rising) Worshipper alignments allowed: Any nonevil Clergy alignments allowed:Any good Favored Weapon:Bastard sword Portfolios:Redemption, song, dance, swordwork, moonlight. Patron of Dark Elves & Good Drow Notes:The divine game the Masked Lady played with her mother(Lolth) stretched through the years, until the Spellplague brutally ended it, splitting the Masked Lady back into Corellon's twin daughter and son. Eilistraee rejoined the Seldarine and now allows males into her clergy(a result of hers and her brother's soul having shared a common body.) When Mystra called upon Qilué Veladorn(chosen of Mystra and Eilistrae) to sacrifice herself so the sickened deity could continue fighting the foul poison affecting her, the pregnant drow agreed. As she lay dying, Qilué and fellow sisters of the faith, with Eilistrae and Corellon's guidance, together wove a great, enduring work of High Magic powered by every scrap of magical power Qilué's being possessed(save the gifts Mystra gave her chosen.) Just as she died, she gave birth to the first Dark Elf to be born since the Descent of the Drow(-10000 DR.) More would follow over the years. Elebrin Liothiel CG Lesser god(rising) Favored Weapon:Quarterstaff Worshipper alignments allowed:Any nonevil Clergy alignments allowed:Any good Portfolios: Orchards, gardens, the harvest, renewal. Notes:{Was always part of my FR's Seldarine. I plucked him from Races of the Wild(page 21.)} A quiet deity, Elebrin and his faith are practically unknown outside elven society. His faith is seeing growth for the first time in millenia as the Wealdath elves and the Yuir half-elves are expanding their respective forests. Erevan Ilesere CN Intermediate god(stable) Favored Weapon:Short Sword Worshipper alignments allowed:CG NG CN N Clergy alignments allowed:CG CN Portfolios:Mischief, change. Patron of elven rogues. Notes:Not much change. He's delighted with Alobal's return. Fenmarel Mestarine CN Lesser god(falling) Favored Weapon: Dagger Worshipper alignments allowed:Any nonevil Clergy alignments allowed:CN Portfolios:Outcasts, Isolation. (Reluctant)patron of the Wild Elves Notes:Falling in influence due to the end of the Wild Elves' exile & the Avariel's return to the skies. Doesn't care, mind you. Hanali Celanil CG Intermediate goddess(rising) Favored Weapon: Dagger Worshipper alignments allowed:Any nonevil Clergy alignments allowed:CG NG CN Portfolios:Love romance, beauty, the arts, artists. Notes:Not much changed about her. Labelas Enoreth CG Intermediate god(stable) Favored Weapon:Quarterstaff Worshipper alignments allowed:Any nonevil Clergy alignments allowed:Any nonevil Portfolios:Time, longevity, history, knowledge. Notes:Again, no change. Resumed his old alliance with Chronos. Rillifane Rallathil CG Intermediate god(rising) Favored Weapon:Quarterstaff Worshipper alignments allowed:Any nonevil Clergy alignments allowed:CG NG CN N Portfolios:Nature, woodlands. Patron of the Wood Elves. Notes:No change here. Sehanine Moonbow CG Intermediate goddess(rising) Favored Weapon:Quarterstaff Worshipper alignments allowed:Any nonevil Clergy alignments allowed:CG NG CN N Portfolios:Mysticism, dreams, death, journeys, the night sky. Patron of the Moon Elves. Notes:No change. Selvetarm CN Lesser god(rising) Favored Weapon:Heavy mace Worshipper alignments allowed:Any nonevil Clergy alignments allowed:Any nonevil Portfolios:Rest, serenity, psionics. Patron of neutral(LN,N,CN) drow who have rejected the evil ways of their race. Notes:Slain during Lolth & Eilistraee's game, he was absorbed by Lolth. His divine spark was ripped from his grandmother by the Spellplague, free of the taint of a demon lord he had long ago slain and absorbed. -Rejecting drow society and abandoning his evil priesthood(who still prayed to him, unaware it was Lolth who for years had answered their prayers), Selvetarm, ater conferring with his aunt Eilistraee, talked in their dreams(or reverie) to those among his worshipers who were not evil and whose life had led them to reject the cruel, pointless ridiculousness of drow society. From those few the god picked his new priesthood, who led the groups out of drow cities and to the surface. from there they made their way to the Wealdath, traveling stealthily at night. -The next few years the god spent aimlessly wandering a spellplagued Faerun(via an avatar), lacking purpose, just as he had done before his fall to evil. But on one moonless night his avatar happened to be in the Vilhon Reach observing the phantom city of Dhinnilith, which appeared every few years above the waters of the reach. he felt in the nearby city of Hlondeth the great concentration of divine energies that always signified the arrival(or return) of a deity to Realmspace. -His avatar teleported there at once, and its gaze met the serene eyes of Auppenser, and witnessed the sheer mental power behind them, and for the first time in his life, Selvetarm knew inner peace. Once the Serene One ascended to resume godly duties left long ago, Selvetarm dismissed his avatar. There was no need for more wandering. -He joined the Seldarine and, to thank Auppenser, took to practice and patronage of psionics, giving Dark Elves born from that point on a propensity and talent for the invisible art. Solonor Thelandira CG Intermediate god(rising) Favored Weapon:Longbow Worshipper alignments allowed:Any nonevil Clergy alignments allowed:CG NG CN Portfolios:Archery, hunting, wilderness survival. Soon-to-be new patron of the Wild Elves Notes:Gaining more and more wild elven worshippers. Tarsellis Meunniduin CN Lesser god(rising) Favored Weapon:Spear Worshipper alignments allowed:All nonevil Clergy alignments allowed:CG NG CN N Portfolios:Mountains, arctic wilderness. Patron of the Snow Elves. Notes:{got him from here} Distant from the rest of the pantheon, Tarsellis has only recently reunited with his fellows, as a recent truce with Auril has finally given enough relief from life's hardships to the Snow Elves to allow exploration. The small population boom that followed(snow elves reach adulthood at only 60 years of age) led many a family of young snow elves to set off from the arctic mountains of Anchorome and cross the frozen waters of Toril's northern wastes in search of new dwelling grounds, where they came into contact with other elves. Vandria Gilmadrith LN Lesser Deity(rising) Favored Weapon:Longbow Worshipper alignments allowed:Any nonevil Clergy alignments allowed:LG NG LN N Portfolio:Defense, guardianship, justice, vigilance, warriors, battle, war Notesandria an elf from eastern Anchorome, who became a war hero after leading her people in revolt against the dictatorship of the Vyshan remnant(who had secretly escaped the purge of their bloodline during the last Crown War.) She was raised to godhood by an Anchorome war deity who was impressed by her battle prowess. Her worship stayed strong due to subsequent attacks first by neighboring nations looking to plunder the weakened elf nation, then later by attacks launched from the Ethereal Plane by the Mist Elves(vengeful descendants of Vyshan survivors.) Despite her portfolio, Vandria remains true to elven ideals (she does not welcome or encourage battle, but preaches readyness for it), and was therefore welcome into the fold of the Seldarine(even if considered something of an oddity by them.) Her faith is gaining ground among the Wild Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, and the half-elves of Yuir.
#15 redglacier Jan 04, 2009 3:24:25	-DRAGON 236 and 251 (the second one, I'm not 100% sure). Thank you, Lord of Lore.
#16 quale1 Jan 04, 2009 7:58:05	yea, it's 251 When they previewed 4e Vaasa, I thought the warlock-knights were a good idea, but Telos didn't appeal to me. Then my Melanthotep/Prothanter idea came back to me, and suddenly 4e Vaasa was much, much more interesting. I forgot about that story in DoF Later, as I was trying to figure out how to rationalize the succubi suddenly serving the Nine Hells, I figured I would have Asmodeus(needing a replacement for the Erinyes, who had felt the divine call to service) strike a deal with Malcanthet, Queen of Succubi. So now I had a new Lord of the Nine, but who do I depose to make way for her? you could involve Lilith Leading to two rival factions among the warlock-knights and a few... ambiguous choices for PCs. After all, while the cultists of Levistus are quite evil, the goal of their patron is(when all is said and done) to get a great threat to the material plane's existence out of Realmspace, and into a vile, corrupt plane where it would do much damage before it is(perhaps) put down.:D interesting, there are several seemingly contradictory stories about Leviathan it's mentioned in Elder Evils, don't remember where, think he sleeps in the Sea of Swords then in the GHotR web article, it's the mighty fey guardian, c. - 11 000 DR, also in the Moonshaes trilogy there is Behemoth, the abyssal lord, who will fight Leviathan at the end of time there is the Lotan - Tiamat story in one of the Candlekeep Compendiums in my alternate cosmology this creature was originally from Ladinion, the previous universe, but it has many different aspects
#17 redglacier Jan 04, 2009 9:06:56	you could involve Lilith Good Idea. She's serving Baalzebul nowadays, and she isn't happy about that. I'll have Asmodeus send her to Malcanthet's court as his messenger. She's well-suited for the task, seeing as(in my FR, anyway) she is one of the first succubus the abyss created, a sister of Malcanthet. She decided to leave and wander the lower planes instead of fighting for the right to rule over the race, as many of her siblings did, eventually falling in with the devils("going native" as it were.) But to continue our story: Malcanthet accepted Asmodeus' offer, and asked as a small bonus of the Lord of the Nine Hells(he acquiesced) that Lilith(she didn't mind at all) become one of her consorts. ...and on that mental image, I leave the boards for a cold shower and some much-needed sleep.:P
#18 lord_karsus Jan 04, 2009 11:23:31	-Don't confuse Leviathans for Leviathan. That is, I see them as two separate entities: There is the Leviathan the monster in the Monster Manual, and then there is the Leviathan, the legendary, near divine entity.
#19 quale1 Jan 05, 2009 3:37:11	I don't, these are all Big L's
#20 keveras Jan 06, 2009 9:39:28	-Don't confuse Leviathans for Leviathan. That is, I see them as two separate entities: There is the Leviathan the monster in the Monster Manual, and then there is the Leviathan, the legendary, near divine entity. Well, there's also a kuo-toa leviathan in Underdark ;) Thus, because there are so many monsters out there that call themselves Leviathan (whether unique or not), I don't like the thought that Leviathan is an alias or an aspect or even the true form of Levistus. Well, the true form of Levistus actually is the one shown in BoVD, though it's still called Levistus. Just my opinion on that matter.
#21 lord_karsus Jan 06, 2009 11:53:16	Thus, because there are so many monsters out there that call themselves Leviathan (whether unique or not), I don't like the thought that Leviathan is an alias or an aspect or even the true form of Levistus. Well, the true form of Levistus actually is the one shown in BoVD, though it's still called Levistus. Just my opinion on that matter. -I don't, either. If Levistus was a Leviathan (Albeit, a Devil Leviathan), that's be, okay, but...
#22 redglacier Jan 06, 2009 23:01:57	To be frank, I wouldn't want my FR's Levistus to be the official WOTC one, either. I just like him that way in my homebrew. BTW, am I the only one who thought the devils' origin story in the Fiendish Codex II was just... bleh? I'd rather they have kept it a mystery. As it stands, the form he has in BOVD is(in my game) the physical manifestation of Leviathan,s mind, shaped by the eons spent in the Nine Hells. Levistus happens to rather like it, intending not to merge back with his original physical form, but rather to wake Leviathan as his puppet and take revenge on Asmodeus(for the brainwashing, and the iceberg prison thing)as well as Dispater, Mephistopheles, and a few other lesser devils(simply because they knew.) Once that's done, he intends to take Asmodeus' throne and become ruler of the Nine Hells. His old bodies on Abeir-Toril and other worlds are just tools to him now: as far as he's concerned, who he was in ancient times is trivial; he's a baatezu trough and trough. He's just very, very peeved that his mind was tampered with, and he wants revenge for that(and other slights; he's a devil, after all.) As thing are, Dispater has grown even more paranoid, Asmodeus doesn't seem fazed at all, and Mephistopheles is both greatly worried about the former Lord of the Fifth, and greatly disturbed about Asmodeus' utter lack of concern.
#23 lord_karsus Jan 06, 2009 23:04:35	I just like him that way in my homebrew. BTW, am I the only one who thought the devils' origin story in the Fiendish Codex II was just... bleh? I'd rather they have kept it a mystery. -I can't say I have even browsed it (I recently got both of the Fiendish Codex books, but I haven't given either much of a perusal). That said, I often like mysteries to stay mysteries. Some things, though, I like explanations. I guess it goes on a case-by-case basis.
#24 keveras Jan 07, 2009 7:36:47	BTW, am I the only one who thought the devils' origin story in the Fiendish Codex II was just... bleh? I'd rather they have kept it a mystery. Definitely not the only one. Imo there are better origins out there than the one presented in FC II.
#25 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Jan 07, 2009 12:25:58	-Don't confuse Leviathans for Leviathan. That is, I see them as two separate entities: There is the Leviathan the monster in the Monster Manual, and then there is the Leviathan, the legendary, near divine entity. You mean the one mentioned in Job 41:1?;)
#26 lord_karsus Jan 07, 2009 12:31:16	You mean the one mentioned in Job?;) -No, that one didn't even come to mind, beautiful (Though, I guess that's another one to put on the list). There's: The Biblical Leviathan The Hobbes Leviathan The "mundane" whale/crocodile/dinosaur Leviathan The Leviathan (D&D monster) The Leviathan (D&D magical entity Levistus) The Leviathan (The Moonshae Guardian)
#27 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Jan 07, 2009 13:40:07	-No, that one didn't even come to mind, beautiful (Though, I guess that's another one to put on the list). [/LIST] Definitely.
#28 keveras Jan 08, 2009 13:12:33	The Biblical Leviathan The Hobbes Leviathan The "mundane" whale/crocodile/dinosaur Leviathan The Leviathan (D&D monster) The Leviathan (D&D magical entity Levistus) The Leviathan (The Moonshae Guardian) And, not to forget, the Elder Evil Leviathan ;)