I was strongly leaning on beginning the Cormyr:Tearing of the Weave adventure in the current campaign I'm DMing, and plan to run the Shadowdale and Anauroch adventures that follow. I've been looking forward to running these modules since the campaign started.
However, I just bought the Grand History of the Realms, and the last entry indicates that in 1385 DR, Cyric and Shar destroy Mystra.
So here is my question: Why should my players care about saving Mystra and her Weave from Shar & Cyric through these adventures after knowing that she's going to be killed off 10 years from now anyways, as indicated in GHotR? Why save Mystra now when the developers at WOTC killed her off in the last product they released? It seems pointless now, and the Anauroch module hasn't even been released yet.
(It's kinda like, why should I buy the 3.5 Rules Compendium book coming out next month when I know they're releasing 4.0 shortly after?)
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where does "O", place his next one? ;)
hwy should meta-game knowledge affect your players descison? Did any of them state in thier character bio's that hey could divine the future with crystal clarity?
That was my first thought.
Of course, I can understand though how knowing as a player that Mystra won't be around much longer might affect my enthusiasm as a roleplayer. Some people are good at blocking out that foreknowledge, others are not.
Of course, no one said you have to have the Spellplague events happen at all.;)
On another note, funny how things change, I read the ToT novels and really liked Cyric as a human, and Kelemvor and Midnight as well, Adon was kinda forgettable to me, Now I despise Cyric and feel sorry for Midnight/Mystra (what a bum ride, elevated to godhood only to have you life snuffed out by a former comrade) and am indifferent toward Kelemvor.
I always felt sort of bad for Adon.
hwy should meta-game knowledge affect your players descison? Did any of them state in thier character bio's that hey could divine the future with crystal clarity?
The issue is not of PCs using out-of-character knowledge in order to pass up an adventure arc.
The issue is why should a DM, who does know what will happen in the official timeline, spend $90 on a three-part adventure series, along with valuable free time preparing for and playing through the campaign arc, when they already know that the underlying goal/premise of the adventure as a whole will be for naught insofar as the official realms are concerned.
Normally when an adventure is absorbed into the timeline, it is assumed that players are largely--if not entirely--successful, and thus when all is said and done (if the PCs were successful) the players feel that their efforts will be worth something in the long run, even when dealing with a shared epilogue.
By contrast, it largely seems like a waste of time if your goal is to have persistent characters in an ongoing campaign, who desire to be something more beyond the adventure than just helpless spectators in their own setting, or victims of predetermined fate.
Heres what I've been considering doing with the adventures:
I'm planning on using them as background for 4ed Realms games. Over the adventure I'll be prodding characters toward developing new abilities, and allowing new feats to represent them.
Warrior types will have the potential to gain combat feats. Spellcasters, exposed to so many dead Weave zones will gain the opportunity to learn how to cast some without the weave.
Thus these PCs will be the origin for some of the new mechanics coming in 4ed, particularly spellcaster's ability to function without the Weave and Mystra.
I don't give a damn if it isn't "Cannon", with the lame 4ed RSE, "Cannon" isn't important anymore.
The issue is not of PCs using out-of-character knowledge in order to pass up an adventure arc.
The issue is why should a DM, who does know what will happen in the official timeline, spend $90 on a three-part adventure series, along with valuable free time preparing for and playing through the campaign arc, when they already know that the underlying goal/premise of the adventure as a whole will be for naught insofar as the official realms are concerned.
Normally when an adventure is absorbed into the timeline, it is assumed that players are largely--if not entirely--successful, and thus when all is said and done (if the PCs were successful) the players feel that their efforts will be worth something in the long run, even when dealing with a shared epilogue.
By contrast, it largely seems like a waste of time if your goal is to have persistent characters in an ongoing campaign, who desire to be something more beyond the adventure than just helpless spectators in their own setting, or victims of predetermined fate.
Why? Because it's a fun story, especially if you tailor it to your home group. It's not about the destination, it's about the journey, and the development of the characters along the way. It's the same reason someone would play in the Ancient Empires setting of FR.
Just because you have *some* idea what the future holds, does not mean you can't greatly enjoy the present, or even enjoy it more knowing that your actions are shaping that future.
When I read through GHotR, I immediately thought, "Man, the things my players are going to do in this series are written in this book! They'll be able to look at that entry in the timeline and say 'We did that!' ".
The issue is why should a DM, who does know what will happen in the official timeline, spend $90 on a three-part adventure series, along with valuable free time preparing for and playing through the campaign arc, when they already know that the underlying goal/premise of the adventure as a whole will be for naught insofar as the official realms are concerned.
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...it largely seems like a waste of time if your goal is to have persistent characters in an ongoing campaign, who desire to be something more beyond the adventure than just helpless spectators in their own setting, or victims of predetermined fate.
I agree completely. What draws me to play/DM is taking part in an epic story. Gaining levels and loot are great incentive too, but like junk food, they leave me feeling a little empty half an hour later. Its the story I remember and the thrill of putting those new levels to good use that I anticipate.
I haven't read much about 4th ed. or very many of the novels so I can't really talk intelligently about either. I guess I just have faith that the 4ed developers understand how important the FR world and it's characters (and players!) are.
That said, I also was planning on running the Cormyr - Anauroch series but now I'm a little skittish about it. It seems to me, if WotC wants us to buy into these adventures and 4ed. they need to come forward with at least an "it'll make sense, we promise".
Just because you have *some* idea what the future holds, does not mean you can't greatly enjoy the present, or even enjoy it more knowing that your actions are shaping that future.
It seems that our actions are in fact not shaping the future. That's why some of us want to know why we should invest in these 3 books.
Affecting the history and story of the Realms is one of the main motivations for buying these official modules.
The purpose of my campaign now is for the PC's to save Mystra, and thus prevent 4th edition from coming to the realms.
May Mystra live forever!
Long live the Goddess of Magic!!!
Why should my players care about saving Mystra and her Weave from Shar & Cyric through these adventures after knowing that she's going to be killed off 10 years from now anyways, as indicated in GHotR? Why save Mystra now when the developers at WOTC killed her off in the last product they released? It seems pointless now, and the Anauroch module hasn't even been released yet.
Well here's a question: Does she have to die?
With a bit of modifying (keeping in mind I know very little about FR) you could have it work like this:
The entity trying to kill Mystra is stopped by the players however and instead of her death, she is:
* moved forward in time 100 years
* sent insane and so she loses control of the Weave
* severely injured which will result in her needing time to heal making her lose control of the weave
* the killing of Mystra was merely a feint in order to gain control of the Weave, however with the player's meddling Mystra and the BBEG both lose control of the Weave and the Spellplague happens
* The players save the day, but with the BBEG's dying breath they manage to release a god virus (that the BBEG stumbled upon) which kills many of the gods and causes Mystra to become sick, losing control of the Weave.
All that really needs to happen is for Mystra to lose control of the Weave (assuming you want to play 4e FR). She doesn't really need to die, does she? So its up to the players: They save her and she continues to exist and perhaps even manages to stop the Spellplague early (by twenty or fifty years), lessening the damage.
If however you want to play 4e Forgotten Realms as is without any change whatsoever, then all of these are probably bad ideas.
Well here's All that really needs to happen is for Mystra to lose control of the Weave (assuming you want to play 4e FR). She doesn't really need to die, does she? So its up to the players: They save her and she continues to exist and perhaps even manages to stop the Spellplague early (by twenty or fifty years), lessening the damage.
Well, the Spellplague only happened because Mystra died.
Well, the Spellplague only happened because Mystra died.
Right, that's why I listed alternate causes for the Spellplague.
OP: Pull a George Lucas and say Mystra shot first. Shar and the Shadow Weave are destroyed, causing the Spellplague.
Deus ex machina can take a lot of forms. I'm another old 2e hand and hated 3e when it came out (so don't even get me started on 4e). When the Shadow Weave appeared I had a fit and promptly rearranged signicant parts of my campaign's history.
In short, I plunked a dozen Nikerymath high mages in the Forest of Amtar (easy enough, since my players hadn't been there), where they were hiding since the fall of their people (I ruled that they had been off doing something else when their remaining comrades brought down the tsunami). They stayed until an attack of shadow adepts killed one of them. Then they went on the warpath.
My players found them cutting a swath across southern Faerun, killing every Shar worshipper they could find. The PC's helped out, and ended up watching them use high magic to imprison Shar. After sufficiently awing my players, I told them that between them, Mystra and Corellon disassembled the Shadow Weave within an hour of Shar's imprisonment. Now, with her already gone, I can easily ignore anything that comes out mentioning the SW or Shar's plots.
My players still refer to that episode as "Angry DM Magic."