I just picked up my copy of the FRCG today and discovered an interesting bit of information. While many gods perished in the spellplague, the text also states that whole pantheons left Faerun. In addition, some of the gods disappeared into Abeir. So, if your favorite god/goddess is missing from the updated setting, you can easily have them still exist on Abeir (possibly looking for a way back to Faerun), or busy establishing themselves in a new world.
Personally, I am using this information to keep Mystra alive and well. While Mystra has reincarnated in the past (saving the Weave), Cyric's attack and the occurance of Abeir aligning with Faerun interferred with the process and the resulting explosion shunted her into Abeir. Recovered, the weakened goddess tried to return to Faerun but has found herself blocked (i.e. Shar "blocking" the rise of a deity of magic). My parties goal will eventually be to open a portal allowing her return and resumption of the sphere of magic (albeit in a more neutral form).
Thoughts?
18DELTA
AKA far-fetched death escape.
Seems like a deus ex machina to return her - retcon-retcon her death in a metagaming way.
Well considering one of the only ways Cyric could have survived the detonation of an entire plane would have been to escape before she died, it is not far fetched that she somehow managed to survive by escaping into Abeir. I would also point out that the entire history of the realms is filled with both protagonists and antagonists escaping at the last moment or returning from the dead. Much of the new realms you enjoy is the result of comic book cliches coming true.
Its like Crisis and Ultimates all rolled up into one ugly, fan-offending ball.
The entire 'Abeir' alternate-Toril thingy reaks of 'comic book', so why not this?
Its like Crisis and Ultimates all rolled up into one ugly, fan-offending ball.
-The 'Primordials' vs. the 'Deities' aspect of it: Marvel Civil War
-The major retcony way in which is was done: Marvel One More Day
With the Karse stone, magic could be restored to its prior state and return wizards back to creating and using their spellbooks again. While I realize that the damage of the old spells need to be reduced to fit 4.E parameters along with the saves attached to any death/transformational magic, such adaptations could easily be accomplished. I would also allow Mystra to regain her greater god status and the sphere of magic. Perhaps an epic adventure to steal the Karse stone from Shar...
Isn't that a comic book cliché?
I love comic book cliches
Thoughts?
This is a great way for DMs to build entire campaigns in the Realms.
There's so much lore to build off of in the Campaign Guide....it's fricking awesome.
While I realize it might be a cliche to bring her back yet again, it seems a plausible idea as my group wants to use an adapted 3.5 magic system. I also thought that the voices in Elminster's head might be the multiple avatars of Mystras that ended up inside him along with the seed of her power. The voices could also be Mystra and Savras.
I like your idea about the voices in Elminster's head. I've not yet decided if I want to introduce him into my game or not, but if I do I can roleplay him speaking with different personalities the way you've described.
Heck, I just thought of this too: The deities who are unaccounted for so far could all be inside Elminster. That would give him plenty of voices lol
That's brilliant!
In this idea, the voices in his head might be partially Mystra trying to get him to ascend, but mostly Shar enjoying life without a God of Magic and creating enough doubt in the old man to keep him from taking that final step to divinity.
This has the benefit of there being a God of Magic, without Mystra getting up yet again which shouldnt happen, after all she was the Weave and the Weave is now gone... time for a new God of Magic. This also is good for the game as a whole, if Elminster did become a God, he would probably be filled with enough doubt due to time hearing voices that he wouldnt take on the aspects of Mystra readers hated. (Always butting in, saving the day, etc.)
...the only problem is why Shar wouldn't just kill Elminster
...the only problem is why Shar wouldn't just kill Elminster
Well if she thinks he is insane perhaps she would leave him alive as a lesson to all those that would dare oppose her. Plus maybe his agony amuses her.
Well, Shar does not have murder in her portfolio. It is why she needed Cyric. That could be a possible reason. I posted information on a scenario with a returned Mystryl in the Running the Realms if any are interested.
You don't need murder in your portfolio to kill things as a god...Shar has killed many gods in the past.
True she has, but those gods had portfolios similar to hers that she wanted to absorb/take. Deities are still supposed to act within the bounds of their spheres/portfolios. As a god of murder Cyric could kill others for any reason. Shar would need a justification.
Um how did Tyr kill Helm then? That was completely outside of his portfolio...if it was Sune or Torm. I guess gods are just more then their portfolios.
Um how did Tyr kill Helm then? That was completely outside of his portfolio...if it was Sune or Torm. I guess gods are just more then their portfolios.
Because Tyr was supposedly under the influence of Cyric? Therefore, it wasn't really Tyr murdering Helm, it was Cyric murdering Helm but using Tyr as his tool.
At least that seems to be the conclusion we're supposed to draw.
Um how did Tyr kill Helm then? That was completely outside of his portfolio...if it was Sune or Torm. I guess gods are just more then their portfolios.
They aren't really, but there is room for interpretation. If you've read The Grand History of the Realms, it details why Tyr killed Helm:
"Siamorphe quarrels with Tyr when the deities take different sides in a clash between Tethyrian and Calimshite forces. She removes herself from the House of the Triad and joins Sune’s court in Brightwater. Tyr sends Helm to plead his case with Sune. The goddess of love suggests a marriage between Tyr and Tymora to set the celestial planes in balance again. Helm conveys Sune’s suggestion to Tyr, and begins to chaperone a chaste courtship between Tyr and Tymora. Strange and fateful misunderstandings lead to the accusation that Helm has stolen Tymora’s heart while conveying the gifts and sentiments of Tyr. A strict interpretation of his own ideals forces Tyr to challenge Helm, and Helm is obliged by his own ideals to meet the challenge. The two gods do battle, and Tyr slays Helm before the deities come to their senses. Heartbroken, Tymora accompanies Tyr back to the House of the Triad. Though nothing can be proved, the gods sense the hand of Cyric in Helm’s death."
Cyric wasn't influencing Tyr, per se, (at least not directly) but Cyric was spreading rumours and falsehoods about the deeds of Helm as the god of lies, intrigue and illusion should be doing. Also, killing /= murder. In this case, Tyr thought, originally, his cause was just and within the bounds of law and retribution.
...the only problem is why Shar wouldn't just kill Elminster
It could be that she fears the reprecussions. She took a bit of a hit the last time she had a deity of magic offed, and that doesn't take the Spellplague into account.
Cyric wasn't influencing Tyr, per se, (at least not directly) but Cyric was spreading rumours and falsehoods about the deeds of Helm as the god of lies, intrigue and illusion should be doing. Also, killing /= murder. In this case, Tyr thought, originally, his cause was just and within the bounds of law and retribution.
Ok that is interesting the penalty of wooing somebodys girlfriend is death...but murder is being sent to your room.(refering to the fact that they didn't just kill Cyric here). Seems odd to me.
...the only problem is why Shar wouldn't just kill Elminster
Also perhaps the death of Elminster will release the divine spark within him allowing him to ascend. Better to keep him insane and immortal.
Also perhaps the death of El minster will release the divine spark within him allowing him to ascend. Better to keep him insane and immortal.
Interesting,
Could the whispers in his head be the remnants of Azuth and Mystra urging the old man to ascend to replace them or could it be Cyric and Shar keeping the old man down and out? You could darn near craft a campaign just around Elminster and his dilemma.
Also perhaps the death of Elminster will release the divine spark within him allowing him to ascend. Better to keep him insane and immortal.
Another possibility is that when he gained the divine spark he also gained Mystra's habit of reincarnation. And so either he would be reincarnated OR the divine spark would be reincarnated in someone else.
OR it could be Shar fears this is the case (and it may or may not be the case) and so leaves him be.
Thanks!
While I realize it might be a cliche to bring her back yet again, it seems a plausible idea as my group wants to use an adapted 3.5 magic system. I also thought that the voices in Elminster's head might be the multiple avatars of Mystras that ended up inside him along with the seed of her power. The voices could also be Mystra and Savras.
Told my husband about these ideas of yours and this one in particular really impressed him. Thank you.
Thanks!
While I realize it might be a cliche to bring her back yet again, it seems a plausible idea as my group wants to use an adapted 3.5 magic system. I also thought that the voices in Elminster's head might be the multiple avatars of Mystras that ended up inside him along with the seed of her power. The voices could also be Mystra and Savras.
That is ok really it really cliche to kill her again...now I know why Midnight didn't want the job in the first place.
I'm glad some of my ideas can be used by others as well! In my mind, magic is an instrinsic part of the Realms. Even though it has changed and continues to change, I think Mystra can never truly die because magic always comes back. Which is why I updated her holy symbol when I brought her back. If you liked this idea, I have a post titled Mystryl which you might also enjoy.