Does anyone have any more info on the river? Or resources to suggest?
If the flow was somehow altered, the salt water mingling with the freshwater would make the area an estuarie... (orography and such)
Or more regarding canon books?
I believe the 2e Moonsea accessory has some information on it, so you might want to check that out... beyond that, I don't recall all that much being said about it specifically.
There are a few bits, focused on the one page on the South Coast in the Player's Guide. I didn't recall much else, either.
Does your question head towards the technical aspect? As in...
If the flow was somehow altered, the salt water mingling with the freshwater would make the area an estuarie... (orography and such)
Or more regarding canon books?
Well, I do recall something indicating that the canon was evolving the Lis to be more of a swampy area, but I'm more focused on the practical aspects of traversing the Lis: how long does it take? It looks like it's in the area of 65-75 miles long. How fast is the current? It's indicated that fairly large ships can make the journey. Do they need oars? If the winds aren't right, are there other, non-magical ways that those ships can move up the river? It would seem like it's pretty hard to tack a large ship on a river.
Etc., etc. I may have to wait until Candlekeep is back up...
The Lis is broad, slow, meandering, muddy and swampy.
Ok, I appreciate the help, but where are you getting that? I'd like to see the source, if I can. I haven't been able to find that information anywhere yet.
For example, broad and slow generally mean shallow. The deeper the cleft cut by the flow of water, the faster the water was traveling (the greater the force exerted on the soil/rock/ground beneath, thus, the more material removed).
However, it's clearly in the canon that fairly large trading vessels are able to make the passage to and from the Moonsea essentially at will. Given that they'd have a significant draft, how do they make the journey?
Meandering would fit in with the broad and slow, but again, we're talking about something that would be problematic for large, fairly clumsy cogs and the like. Look at some aerial pictures of the Mississippi in a number of places, and you'll see meandering - U turns and the like. However, you can't get a cog up the Mississippi for any significant distance, as far as I'm aware.
So, I'm trying to reconcile these two concepts - big, clumsy medieval trading vessels can make the passage from Moonsea to Dragon Reach, but the River Lis is meandering.
I'm far from an expert on waterways, so any help is appreciated.
Thinking about it, the Raven's Bluff Living City thingy might have mentioned it, but the memory is really hazy on that. Don't recall it mentioning much more than the Moonsea did really.
Thanks. I flipped through it (how could I have ever resisted an FR supplement with Caramon and Raistlin on the cover?
) and while there was a limited amount of information on shipping in the Dragon Reach and into the rest of the Sea of Fallen Stars, nothing on the River Lis.I did find a sentence in Mysteries of the Moonsea that described it as 'gentle and easy to travel by ship or barge.' and that it 'carries water south into the Dragon Reach'... not much, but something anyway.
Here is the relevant portion:
Much blood has been spilled over control of the Lis, but the terrain itself has defeated any longterm control beyond the “as far as the point of my blade/reach of my spells extends” sort.
The term ‘the Lisen Sands’ refers to treacherous marine navigation and flooded areas, not broad beaches or desert area. You recall brackish water from the freshwater swamps (fed by local streams and springs) emptying into a broad, shallow, VERY silty saltwater river that generates lots of oxbows, side-channels, quicksand, dunes (that unlike ‘desert dunes’ change only by water action, not wind, as they’re well-anchored with vegetation), standing dead ‘drowned’ trees, lots of choking vines and stunted wetland living trees (in short, large marshes with lots of ground cover for lurking outlaws and critters) . . . and everywhere insects, insects, clouds of stinging insects.
Through the heart of it all winds the broad, slow, mud-opaque-water Lis, sometimes impassable to deep-keeled ships, but never choked so much that water cannot pass from the Moonsea to the Dragonreach. Indeed, spring storms in particular (and fierce winds blowing up heading-south waves at all times of year) can generate ‘Scourings’ of the Lis that briefly give it depths of more than forty feet and a clear, straight channel. Usually, it’s 12 to 15 feet deep (with a soft-chocolate-mud bottom that will allow solid objects to readily pass or sink through it for about another six feet or so), and permanently cloudy.
I hope this helps.
Was thinking of the City of Raven's Bluff... don't recall those two on the cover though.
Thanks for the reply, Stigger. Turns out I was looking at LC1 Gateway to Raven's Bluff, based on the Living City RPGA campaign. I had never downloaded City of Raven's Bluff from the WOTC site, because I was assuming they were one and the same. Silly me.
Cheers
Damian
Yes, the River Lis is frozen over, for the greater part of most winters. It’s a series of shallow brackish channels, sandbars, and marsh plants for much of its run, and can easily be traversed by lone humans (and smaller humanoids) afoot, dragging sledges or just packs behind them on lines so as to distribute the weight (mules with “snowshoes” fitted and some magical means of calming them to keep them from kicking wildly, falling, and breaking legs at the sensation of having big dinnerplate-things strapped to their feet, and slipping constantly, can also be used, kept on long reins or “lead lines” to keep them from wandering, but horses and suchlike are usually too heavy; plate armor should be doffed and dragged, not worn).
However, this works for intrepid peddlers and small bands of adventurers, NOT for caravans. The problem is that the eastern bank of the Lis is treacherous brackish (to freshwater, as one moves farther east) swamp with lots of decay and therefore “marsh gas” bubbling up (heat due to vegetative rotting), and there are many places in that swamp that either don’t freeze over, or that freeze over with very thin “crackle ice” that won’t support anything heavier than a bunny or large carrion bird).
So a caravan would get bogged down in that trackless swampland, and swooped upon by hungry winter predators of all sorts (wyverns and peryton, for example). A walker controlling a Tenser’s Floating Disc would have no problem, but assembling and persuading a group of wizards to do anything so dangerous as a caravan stroll in severe winter weather is harder than it sounds. Some winters they could make big coin carrying the right goods, yes, so it might be worth doing.
I also remember some sort of battle too - I think it may have been River-pirates using shallow-bottomed boats that try to force the larger vessels onto the sandbars.
I would check, but I can't find the book ATM.
