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The Red Wizards form a powerful mercantile force in the Realms. Dig into one of their enclaves, Rose Keep, in this article. Learn about the Wizards who run the enclave, explore the compound with the included map, and learn about the goals these Red Wizards pursue when not peddling their wares.
See it now! (1.6 Mbs PDF)
When one speaks of Red Wizards, one is most likely referring to merchants who specialize in scrolls, magic items, and sometimes, illicit substances and questionable trade goods.
The average Red Wizard enclave exists as small mercantile manor or trading compound within the walls of a city large enough to support even minuscule magical trade. Customers usually interact with Red Wizards (or their agents) on the enclave’s grounds. Red Wizard enclaves are in many of the major coastal cities of the Sea of Fallen Stars, as well as in the Moonsea region.
See it now! (1.6 Mbs PDF)
When one speaks of Red Wizards, one is most likely referring to merchants who specialize in scrolls, magic items, and sometimes, illicit substances and questionable trade goods.
The average Red Wizard enclave exists as small mercantile manor or trading compound within the walls of a city large enough to support even minuscule magical trade. Customers usually interact with Red Wizards (or their agents) on the enclave’s grounds. Red Wizard enclaves are in many of the major coastal cities of the Sea of Fallen Stars, as well as in the Moonsea region.
-Rose KeepShowThe Red Wizards form a powerful mercantile force in the Realms. Dig into one of their enclaves, Rose Keep, in this article. Learn about the Wizards who run the enclave, explore the compound with the included map, and learn about the goals these Red Wizards pursue when not peddling their wares.
See it now! (1.6 Mbs PDF)
When one speaks of Red Wizards, one is most likely referring to merchants who specialize in scrolls, magic items, and sometimes, illicit substances and questionable trade goods.
The average Red Wizard enclave exists as small mercantile manor or trading compound within the walls of a city large enough to support even minuscule magical trade. Customers usually interact with Red Wizards (or their agents) on the enclave’s grounds. Red Wizard enclaves are in many of the major coastal cities of the Sea of Fallen Stars, as well as in the Moonsea region.
simplification goes that far that Veleprintalar is Veltalar
not bad for an enclave, thought they were abandoning that concept
Dedicated to Kossuth, with a secret HQ somewhere and linked to the Brotherhood of the Flame in Zakhara, they'd be just what my campaign needs to tie up some loose ends.
And I miss the tattoos. They were one of those things that made the wizards stand out.
And Rose Keep is in Aglarond. I mean. Like. Seriously.
I'm already thinking that a secret brotherhood of *real* Red Wizards within the merchantile houses would be a good (well, an evil) thing.
Dedicated to Kossuth, with a secret HQ somewhere and linked to the Brotherhood of the Flame in Zakhara, they'd be just what my campaign needs to tie up some loose ends.
I like that.
Wow do I ever detest this. I was extremely pumped for this article, and now I'm sorry I looked at it. I like to keep an open mind on things, but these Red Wizards could be anyone in red robes, not the true Thayan stock.
And I think, more than even the article, I hate the artwork. If it was done well, it might help sell it, but I am sorely tempted to begin fireing off samples to Wizards, so they at least have passable images to attach to their products.
*Get's out crayons and drags it roughly across the page* See? Already a step up.
-RW
And you know, maybe this is just a realistic evolution of the order - however, I'm not convinced it makes for a good setting (or a good story).
I'm already thinking that a secret brotherhood of *real* Red Wizards within the merchantile houses would be a good (well, an evil) thing.
Dedicated to Kossuth, with a secret HQ somewhere and linked to the Brotherhood of the Flame in Zakhara, they'd be just what my campaign needs to tie up some loose ends.
Very nice...
I didn't really like this new take on them, but when I gave it some thought, I realized they really left everything vague enough for us to spin it back into something recognizable - this is what I posted over at CK, which is similar to how you were thinking -
Now I picture that group being undecided and fractious - they are the true legacy of Thay, after all. I assume that their would be two major factions within the Enclave-Camp - the ones who want to try and re-take Thay from Szass and his minions, and the ones that want to establish a new Thay elsewhere, rather then waste what precious resources they have on a fruitless war.
And as usual, the various guys in charge can't agree on what to do, so they spend all their time arguiing and not getting much done in the way of their goals. Then I also see a new, 3rd faction rising in power, of young Wizards who aren't steeped in past traditions, who want to bring about a unified front... by assassinating all their Elders and taking over the consortium themselves.
I can even add your idea in as well - have those 'Young Mavericks' be the Kossuthan element you were talking about. I would also keep the 'Old Thay' crowd VERY traditionalist, still having tattoos and shaving their heads, and being against the all the non-humans now part of their organization. The other group would be busy trying to get ahold of a large chunk of land somewhere (possibly in Chult) to build their 'New Thay', and would be more tolerant of the non-humans.
Maybe it's time for a new project on the other FR board.
Ars Magica! That was it:
You play these magi, gathered in covenants with your allies and servants, unlocking secret powers and creating wonders. You and your friends will also portray the loyal companions and grogs who stand with the magi, as a buffer between them and the mundane world that often misunderstands their power and motives. When adventures draw you out into the medieval world of Mythic Europe, your stories are the stuff of legend.
Beautiful system and setting. Not that I was ever inclined to play it, but very pretty.
Anyway, a Red Wizard campaign as you describe could be a lot of fun. Politics, intrigue and fire magic. What could go wrong?
That is the one BIG positive I try to get across to my fellow 'Grognards' (;) ) - you can really take this setting anywhere you want now. There is definately something to be said for just having a basic backdrop to set your own stories in.
I'm not really sure how this wasn't true before, though... and to some extent, I think many people of the 'old guard' who were fans of the Realms were attracted to it in part because it was more than just a basic backdrop.
sounds like some people I know! ;)18DELTA :P
I'm not really sure how this wasn't true before, though... and to some extent, I think many people of the 'old guard' who were fans of the Realms were attracted to it in part because it was more than just a basic backdrop.
You are 100% correct.
The thing that first got my attention and stole my Greyhawk love was all the detail. On the other hand, the new setting is just like circa 1980 GH setting, and I can use it the same way - to plunk down whatever I want, wherever I want.
Although you are VERY much correct in saying this was always possible, I feel the depth of the setting before was such that it tied your hands a bit. I don't want to go down that 'detractor' road again, but basically, the old stuff was just so good you didn't WANT to change it.
The new FRCG is so sparse that it DEMANDS you add in your own fluff, so that the setting now becomes more like an amalgam of an official setting and a homebrew one. I suppose you could simply use it as-is, and go from dungeon to dungeon, and thats fine too. I, on the other hand, like designing my own stuff, but don't always have all the time required to create a 100% hombrew world.
Now I can take the planet and what little information we have, and build upon it as my campaign develops.
In a way, we are no longer chained to canon, because there really isn't much of any. Its hard to explain, but I hope I at least got the gist across.
The new FRCG is so sparse that it DEMANDS you add in your own fluff, so that the setting now becomes more like an amalgam of an official setting and a homebrew one.
You, sir, have an amazing talent for finding a silver lining in otherwise ...well, to put it diplomatically, 'not so good' aspects. ;)
Anyway, it's nowhere near as sparse as it was when the grey box was published!
A paladin of Waukeen, who champions "fair prices", just might be the ticket for a 4E character!
[INDENT]Maximus the Holy grabs the red-garbed dwarf wizard roughly shaking him, "Fiend! How DARE you set exhorbitent prices for wands that assist lvl 1 parties in healing?!"
Coinius Spellanvil gulps, "G-good sirrah, w-we are but simple merchant-wizards, and our country is in dire need of trickle-down economic support for the masses. We set our prices at 150% of the FRPG because Lord Tam desires renewed prosperity for our people!"
Maximus drops the dwarf unceremoniously, "Lord 'Tam' you say," his eyes narrowing on a new goal. "I suppose this is the same Lord Tam who rules your depraved country of
"Y-yes, my lord," stammers the dwarf.
"Well, my friends, it seems we have a new goal." Maximus glances back to his allies, "We ride for the Empire of Thay!"
"Uhm, Chad... I mean Maximus, Thay is like halfway across the world and we're only lvl 8. Tam is like lvl 30 or something."
"No problem, my good orcish friend, this is clearly the seed for an Epic quest! We'll be level 30 before we'll get there."
"HEY SARAH!" yells a distant voice. "Where's the Mountain Dew?"[/INDENT]
Except that there's a pile of pre-existing lore to build on ...
Anyway, it's nowhere near as sparse as it was when the grey box was published!
Which is why I made the 'spoiled children' analogy in the other thread.
If this were a brand new setting, we probably wouldn't say 90% of the bad stuff we are saying, because we wouldn't have any previously built-up expectatons. Its human nature - when people are used to getting a certain level of something, they go nuts when you take it away.
If the old setting wasn't so DAMN GOOD, we wouldn't be caring like we do. The Old Grey Box caught our attemntion, and after that it was like a run-away train crashing through our imagination. Now its like we got one of those electric 'Green' cars and are chuggin' along at 20 mph. It does the job, sure, but its just not what we are used to.
Once you have Filet Mignon, Hamburger just doesn't cut it anymore.
BUUUUUT, Hamburgers are still good in their own way. ;)
18DELTA
simplification goes that far that Veleprintalar is Veltalar
Wow, I didn't even notice that.
Now, I do think "Rose Keep" is a wussy name (*snicker*) but that said the actual content of the article isn't so bad. If I were to use it, I would definitely tweak it, but the overall setup between the characters could make for a fun, intriguing adventure. You could (with tweaking) take the basic information and plop it into the pre-Spellplague Realms, or a totally different setting.
I wasn't disappointed with this article.
"Rose Keep" brings to mind some real-life fortress with a similar name. Any ideas?
I like to keep an open mind on things, but these Red Wizards could be anyone in red robes, not the true Thayan stock.
I agree with you. As an article on "Red Wizards", this does nothing for me, because I don't plan to use the 4E Realms setting. However, as an article that features some interesting plothooks, it works for me, especially because it's so generic it can be used anywhere (the "Red Wizard enclave" can be tweaked into just a "merchant house").
Anyhow, back on topic.
My posts are on topic.
"Rose Keep" brings to mind some real-life fortress with a similar name.
Not for me.
Hm... maybe their "evil" is in how overpriced their magic items will be for PCs to purchase. Ooooh, that mean old Szass Tam and his lackeys who charge too much, grr!
A paladin of Waukeen, who champions "fair prices", just might be the ticket for a 4E character!
[INDENT]Maximus the Holy grabs the red-garbed dwarf wizard roughly shaking him, "Fiend! How DARE you set exhorbitent prices for wands that assist lvl 1 parties in healing?!"
Coinius Spellanvil gulps, "G-good sirrah, w-we are but simple merchant-wizards, and our country is in dire need of trickle-down economic support for the masses. We set our prices at 150% of the FRPG because Lord Tam desires renewed prosperity for our people!"
Maximus drops the dwarf unceremoniously, "Lord 'Tam' you say," his eyes narrowing on a new goal. "I suppose this is the same Lord Tam who rules your depraved country ofFerengimerchant-wizards with anironskeletal fist, that most evil of liches?"
"Y-yes, my lord," stammers the dwarf.
"Well, my friends, it seems we have a new goal." Maximus glances back to his allies, "We ride for the Empire of Thay!"
"Uhm, Chad... I mean Maximus, Thay is like halfway across the world and we're only lvl 8. Tam is like lvl 30 or something."
"No problem, my good orcish friend, this is clearly the seed for an Epic quest! We'll be level 30 before we'll get there."
"HEY SARAH!" yells a distant voice. "Where's the Mountain Dew?"[/INDENT]
I agree with you. As an article on "Red Wizards", this does nothing for me, because I don't plan to use the 4E Realms setting. However, as an article that features some interesting plothooks, it works for me, especially because it's so generic it can be used anywhere (the "Red Wizard enclave" can be tweaked into just a "merchant house").
-Yeah one could use it in Eberron as a Dragonmarked House! :D
18DELTA
:lightbulb :evillaugh 
Anyhow, back on topic.
"Rose Keep" brings to mind some real-life fortress with a similar name. Any ideas?
It initally reminded me of Stephen King's "Rose Red", but the cleverness didn't extend quite that far. At first, I thought it'd be an interesting take on a mansion-turned-trading center, and would have a ghost upstairs (knowing Cordell and his overworked penchant for making things supposedly spooky). But it's really just a sad play on the fact that roses are red... red wizards and all that. Too obvious, too normal, too simple. Cordell has taken the teeth out of what was once a very interesting cabal of evil wizards by reducing them to this.
This is just a -very- generic keep with a few generic wizards. Nice map, but zero creativity, and what was once quite inventive and unique has been erased.
As for the shaving the hair from their bodies that may have changed since they have probably adapted to some degree to their new homes and others may have done it as a 'memory' to the Thay they've lost to Tam and his undead.
It's hard to be the 'Red Wizards of Thay' when your Thay no longer exists. Even in Unclean there's mention that many Thayans when outside of Thay will let their hair grow out so they don't stand out as much from others.
From the article all these Red Wizard enclaves are amongst the ex-patriots of Thay who left with the Zulkirs (or were already at these enclaves from before the war) who refused to bow to Tam. As such they may not wish to keep the 'of Thay' part since they want to distance themselves from what Thay has become.
Well other than the art showing non-Thayan (or non-traditional Thayans) they do mention that the enclaves often don't take in new people other than through marriage or adoption. Most Red Wizards are born into it. As such it'd seem most are still pureblood Thayan/Mulan.
Except for the one enclave they choose to detail...
As to the bald/attoos: the fact that it can all have grown naturlaly to be somethign else is irrelevant. The baldness/tattoos defined the wizards'looks, gave them a certain air. Removing that seems to me a bit dumb.
And I still don't get how it can manage to be in Aglarond. I mean, they were and are at war with Thay. And the red wizards have an enclave? In the Simbul's time, too?
I've seen some people suggest dropping this enclave into Thunderspire Labyrinth in place of the "Mages of Saruun" who run the Seven-Pillared Hall in H2.
While it wasn't mentioned in the Realms conversion notes for either H1 or H2, it's certainly synergistic that the current majority owner of the Rose Keep, Tharna Shavres, "...had a son named Kalarel, but he has not been seen in decades. Apparently Tharna and Kalarel had a nasty falling-out over a cursed magic item--a sort of portal mouth. Tharna wanted it destroyed, but Kalarel wanted it for himself" (Cordell/WotC, "Rose Keep," Dragon #366 p. 3).
Kalarel, of course, is the name of the priest attempting to fulfill Shar's deal with the shadow dragon Shadraxil in the FR version of H1, The Keep on the Shadowfell.
(I originally posted this at Candlekeep, and crossposted it in a Dungeon thread above.)
Anyhow, back on topic.
"Rose Keep" brings to mind some real-life fortress with a similar name. Any ideas?
I don't know about a similar name, but the famous "rose" fortification is Alhama, isn't it? In Granada?
I thought the wizards were blad and tattooed because that was the fashion of Thay. Well to me if the Red Wizards are no longer living in Thay then after 100 years that custom will probably disappear. There may be some holdouts that like tradition or others who think it was a rather sharp look but it makes sense that they drop the look that was sported by an evil nation of slavers.
-It was their Mulan heritage, not their Thayvian nationality.
if you remove from a group all its cultural habits and looks and change them into a bunch of people whose only distinction is the color of their robes, you basically cut away quite a bit of what is interesting about them.
The tattoos were magical in nature, not cultural custom.
That didn't help me much... it makes removing it feel worse.
That didn't help me much... it makes removing it feel worse.
I'm with ya, buddy.
Kalarel, of course, is the name of the priest attempting to fulfill Shar's deal with the shadow dragon Shadraxil in the FR version of H1, The Keep on the Shadowfell.
Good call, Christopher.
The tattoos were magical in nature, not cultural custom.
This was also the reason that they shaved their heads, or one of them. It gave them more skin on which to ink magical tattoos (though why they couldn't then let the hair grow back was another matter). It was referenced a few times that cutting of hair was regulated by cultural laws (slaves weren't allowed to cut their hair, for instance), as well.
I did actually play a Red Wizard, once, who didn't shave his head. In his case, it was used as an example of his overweening arrogance. :P I do recall an instance of a female Red Wizard who did the same in one of the novels, though which slips my mind now (Unclean, maybe?).
With this set up, you can even have a Red Wizard PC. An unaligned, arrogant wizardling who thinks that she can shape the world for good with her ancestor's magics, and only gradually uncovers the true depth of their depravity. You can even fold an infernal warlock pact into that story without much trouble. Oooh, tasty.
This was also the reason that they shaved their heads, or one of them. It gave them more skin on which to ink magical tattoos (though why they couldn't then let the hair grow back was another matter). It was referenced a few times that cutting of hair was regulated by cultural laws (slaves weren't allowed to cut their hair, for instance), as well.
I did actually play a Red Wizard, once, who didn't shave his head. In his case, it was used as an example of his overweening arrogance. :P I do recall an instance of a female Red Wizard who did the same in one of the novels, though which slips my mind now (Unclean, maybe?).
If I am not mistaken, the whole point of shaving ones head was to differentiate ones status from common people / slaves. By not shaving your head, you'd basically be telling everyone, 'Look at me! I'm a slave!' It would be akin to a Red Wizard refusing to wear his red robes, because he likes the color green. Sure, it might be slightly 'rebellious' but culturally speaking, he'd only be telling everyone that he is a lesser person.
I'd imagine such an individual would be ostracized as well as being mocked outright and ridiculed. It is not as if fellow Red Wizards want to be seen working with a slave, which is more-or-less the signals you'd be sending.
Although, some Red Wizards do let their hair grow if they are outside of Thay, I think. It makes it easier for them to blend in and they get less hate that way. :P
This was also the reason that they shaved their heads, or one of them. It gave them more skin on which to ink magical tattoos (though why they couldn't then let the hair grow back was another matter). It was referenced a few times that cutting of hair was regulated by cultural laws (slaves weren't allowed to cut their hair, for instance), as well.
I did actually play a Red Wizard, once, who didn't shave his head. In his case, it was used as an example of his overweening arrogance. :P I do recall an instance of a female Red Wizard who did the same in one of the novels, though which slips my mind now (Unclean, maybe?).
Maybe it was the one with the canal?
Anyhow, I also had an NPC Red Wizard who didn't shave his head - this was quite normal outside of Thay. Bald guys wearing Red and sporting tattoos get way too much attention in Faerûn.
Strangely, not so much in San Francisco...
It would be akin to a Red Wizard refusing to wear his red robes, because he likes the color green.
-What a rebel.
If I am not mistaken, the whole point of shaving ones head was to differentiate ones status from common people / slaves. By not shaving your head, you'd basically be telling everyone, 'Look at me! I'm a slave!' It would be akin to a Red Wizard refusing to wear his red robes, because he likes the color green. Sure, it might be slightly 'rebellious' but culturally speaking, he'd only be telling everyone that he is a lesser person.
I vaguely recall that the length you were allowed to keep it at was directly related to your social status, yes. Of course, my choice was also affected by the fact that he a) wasn't in Thay, and b) was being played on Neverwinter Nights, where the only bald/Thayan type heads didn't fit the character at all. ;)
It initally reminded me of Stephen King's "Rose Red", but the cleverness didn't extend quite that far.
Yeah - I was actually disappointed they weren't dirivitive this once.
If I run this at all (which I doubt), I might just add all that cool 'Rose Red' stuff into it - you know, a haunted house with it's own agenda (Probably a female Red Wizard Spirit, so it dooesn't bother the other Red Wizards), and play up the 'moving rooms' aspect of it, lik the RW Winchester House Rose Red is based on.
I might even try my hand at mapping this place out - although the 'moving rooms' thing will be hard to simulate...
The above house - at least in the Rose Red movie - had a spooky, weird greenhouse full of exotic plants, so I'll definately be playing that up.
-You definitely need and exotic and deadly rose garden.
Yeah - I was actually disappointed they weren't dirivitive this once.
If I run this at all (which I doubt), I might just add all that cool 'Rose Red' stuff into it - you know, a haunted house with it's own agenda (Probably a female Red Wizard Spirit, so it dooesn't bother the other Red Wizards), and play up the 'moving rooms' aspect of it, lik the RW Winchester House Rose Red is based on.
See, now -those- ideas would've been interesting and fun. Maybe the spirit (perhaps a baelnorn?) of the Red Wizard lady has issues with the "new" Red Wizards in some way.
I also like Karsus' idea of a rose garden amplified by magic. That would've been Realmsy, for sure.
I will assume that only a small portion of the house is being used by the current RWs - maybe two dozen rooms at most. Like its Real-World counterpart, the total of rooms would float around 160 - give or take a dozen at any given time. I might even name the Ghostly Wizard (no Lich or Baelnorn, perhaps an Archlich - she should be more like Lady Saharel of Spellgard) Sarrahh Paardie, after Sarah Winchester who owned the real house.
As an 'Old School' Red Wizard, she takes exception to anyone with hair, or any non-human Red Wizards, so the 'Traditionalist' faction is definately in-charge in this enclave. Also, some of the rooms that 'come and go' will also appear elsewhere in the realms, so they acts as portals, so as to maintain that 'Realms Feel' with this re-make.
Yup - a Wizard's garden 'gone mad' - even the Red Wizards don't go in there anymore (I'm picturing a small-scale war between Myconids and Vegepygmys). There will also be a door leading to the outside, with more Garden (and critters) beyond.
Your DM is doing exactly what the NEW FR is designed to do - allow the DMs to hand-tailor the world to their own needs, rather then let the canon run rampant over them.
I'm going to take the bare-bones they gave us, and add equal amounts of the old Realms and my HB stuff in. Thats what we are supposed to do - make it OURS.
So you like the idea of..
vs 
?:D
• The Red Wizards who were basically the "Rebel Army" to Tam's "Galactic Empire." They apparently all either went into hiding or were killed by Tam's decree that they were the bad guys, not Tam himself. Now that everybody knows Tam's the bad guy, they've come out of hiding and started resuming their former past time as Magic Merchants™
• Tam's followers, who are now presumably all either dead, undead, or are generally serving Tam as part of his Legions of Terror™
Is this generally accurate?
So you like the idea of..
:D
Yep! Myconids and vegepygmies deserve more love. :D
With Blue Cheese dressing, of course. :D
I like them on my salad.
With Blue Cheese dressing, of course. :D
HERETIC! It's Ranch or nothing!!!
Yup - a Wizard's garden 'gone mad' - even the Red Wizards don't go in there anymore (I'm picturing a small-scale war between Myconids and Vegepygmys). There will also be a door leading to the outside, with more Garden (and critters) beyond.
I will assume that only a small portion of the house is being used by the current RWs - maybe two dozen rooms at most. Like its Real-World counterpart, the total of rooms would float around 160 - give or take a dozen at any given time. I might even name the Ghostly Wizard (no Lich or Baelnorn, perhaps an Archlich - she should be more like Lady Saharel of Spellgard) Sarrahh Paardie, after Sarah Winchester who owned the real house.
As an 'Old School' Red Wizard, she takes exception to anyone with hair, or any non-human Red Wizards, so the 'Traditionalist' faction is definately in-charge in this enclave. Also, some of the rooms that 'come and go' will also appear elsewhere in the realms, so they acts as portals, so as to maintain that 'Realms Feel' with this re-make.
-Why does that remind me of 'Hogwarts'? :D
18DELTA :P
Yuppers.
This plays, rather beautifully, into my character's history. He grew up in a frontier-esque town in Aglarond, and, early in his life, was training to become a Cleric, when he found an ancient tome and a few belongings that had belonged to his grandfather, and in an epiphany moment, changed course and self-trained himself (thanks to the collection of books left behind) as a Wizard.
Hand to god, that's how I wrote his history. Everything except Aglarond itself was how I wrote the character's history for CORE before I translated him into FR. When I did, I picked Aglarond as his home region, and said he'd grown up in a small town there.
This is hilariously awesome. For me, at least.
-You know what? This gives me an idea. A thread in the Running-The-Realms section to Realmsify the Rose Keep. :lightbulb
Note: The extremely large conservatory (Rich people's Greenhouse) house all the bizzaro plants, a'la Poison Ivy's Lab in Batman and Robin meets Little Shop of Horrors. I'm thinking a connected outdoor garden, just as large (that can only be accessed through the Conservatory), wherein the Vegepygmys rule by day, and the Myconids come out at night (from their rotted gardener's toolhouse).
It just tickles me no end to imagine a couple of stuffy, old Wizards making an off-hand mention of their little "Vegepygmy infestation".
Also, Jermlaine living in parts of the rest of the house - those guys used to give me nightmares. They remind me of Borrowers gone bad.
HERETIC! It's Ranch or nothing!!!
I save the Ranch for Pizza and French Fries. :D
I like a little Mold with my fungus though - something so wrong about pouring Blue Cheese over Mushrooms... and yet, SO delicious.
18DELTA ;)
Ummm... isn't it just a little... sad... that we need to 'Realmsify' an article about Red Wizards?
-Yes, yes it is. But, there are the times we live in...
-Yes, yes it is. But, there are the times we live in...
We can rebuild it. We can make it stronger, faster - we have the technology.
Would she be a half-Golem, or a demi-forged?
So, now we have the 'Bionic Red Woman"?
Would she be a half-Golem, or a demi-forged?
as long as it ain't one of them warforged
as long as it ain't one of them warforged
-Didn't you hear, The Red Wizards will create the Warforged to help reclaim Thay from the Ebil Lich Tamy. Or failling that a weak country somewhere! :P
18DELTA ;)
-RW
Personally I like the concept of the Enclaves being devided into old school vs new school ideals. Some wish for a return to the "glorious" past, in which only Mulani were eligable for Red Wizard membership, and Thay was a land of exotically beautiful vistas, kept perfect by magic, While others are content with the change, and just wish to continue petty power struggles, while growing as merchants. I'm sure we all know which side of that fence I am on. :P
-RW
-Petty Merchants? :P
18DELTA :D
-Petty Merchants? :P
18DELTA :D
I was wondering who would jump all over that. My guesses involved you. :P
-RW
-Yeah I couldn't resist it either!!!;)
18DELTA :D
I was wondering who would jump all over that. My guesses involved you. :P
-RW
-At least you didn't accidentally hit 'R' and type 'pretty merchants'.
I figure just about all the remaining Enclaves would either be Tradtionalist or Reform - with a few 'fence-sitters' - and each would most likely have at least one member of the Crimson Cabal (my name for the 'Upstarts'). mostly they just "talk the talk" and complain about the 'old-timers' running things, but occasionlly they fund 'private endeavors' outside of the Enlaves. Also, unlike most of the regular Red Wizards, they worship gods other then Kossuth (which isn't exactly against the rules, but is frowned upon). I see some darker members turning to Shar, or even Cyric, while more neutral ones would venerate Waukeen.
Aditionally, a yet 'unknown' 4th faction exists, hidden within the traditionalists (for the most part). It is a super-covert cell within the Enclaves, that act as the eyes an ears of Szass Tam - it consists of peple who had re-sworn their allegiance to Thay and Tam, and now report back to him with news of the outside world. This group is very small for now - perhaps a dozen, but they are trying to recruit more.
So, it seems, the more things change, the more they remain the same.
And don't forget the 'Young Upstarts' (:P LK) who "yes" all the older guys to death (both traditionalists and 'reform'), the whole while plotting their downfall so they can take all the goodies for themselves. Those guys wouldn't give a rat's ass about Thay or Red Wizarding, but rather money and power. Being a Red Wizard, to them, is just a means to an end (although, unbenownst to them, thats pretty much how it was back in Thay, in a lot of cases).
I figure just about all the remaining Enclaves would either be Tradtionalist or Reform - with a few 'fence-sitters' - and each would most likely have at least one member of the Crimson Cabal (my name for the 'Upstarts'). mostly they just "talk the talk" and complain about te 'old-timers' running things, but occasionlly they fund 'private endeavors' outside of the Enlaves. Also, unlike most of the regular Red Wizards, they worship gods other then Kossuth (which isn't exactly against the rules, but is frowned upon). I see some darker members turning to Shar, or even Cyric, while more neutral ones would venerate Waukeen.
Aditionally, a yet 'unknown' 4th faction exists, hidden within the traditionalists (for the most part). It is a super-covert cell within the Enclaves, tha ct as the eyes an ears of Szass Tam - it consists of peple who had re-sworn their allegiance to Thay and Tam, and now report back to him with news of the outside world. This grop is very small for now - perhaps a dozen, but they are trying to recruit more.
So, it seems, the more things change, the more they remain the same.
-This is pure WIN!
:lightbulb :evillaugh 
:bounce: 18DELTA ;)
And don't forget the 'Young Upstarts' (:P LK) who "yes" all the older guys to death (both traditionalists and 'reform'), the whole while plotting their downfall so they can take all the goodies for themselves. Those guys wouldn't give a rat's ass about Thay or Red Wizarding, but rather money and power. Being a Red Wizard, to them, is just a means to an end (although, unbenownst to them, thats pretty much how it was back in Thay, in a lot of cases).
I figure just about all the remaining Enclaves would either be Tradtionalist or Reform - with a few 'fence-sitters' - and each would most likely have at least one member of the Crimson Cabal (my name for the 'Upstarts'). mostly they just "talk the talk" and complain about te 'old-timers' running things, but occasionlly they fund 'private endeavors' outside of the Enlaves. Also, unlike most of the regular Red Wizards, they worship gods other then Kossuth (which isn't exactly against the rules, but is frowned upon). I see some darker members turning to Shar, or even Cyric, while more neutral ones would venerate Waukeen.
Aditionally, a yet 'unknown' 4th faction exists, hidden within the traditionalists (for the most part). It is a super-covert cell within the Enclaves, tha ct as the eyes an ears of Szass Tam - it consists of peple who had re-sworn their allegiance to Thay and Tam, and now report back to him with news of the outside world. This grop is very small for now - perhaps a dozen, but they are trying to recruit more.
So, it seems, the more things change, the more they remain the same.
Essentially what I had in mind, though better communicated than my little piddly post. ;)
-RW
I like this. You would essentially have four factions within the Red Wizards. The largest groups would be the Reform and the Traditional parties (Liberals and Conservatives?). You'd also have the more neutral Red Wizard, Inc, who don't really care about the exact political leanings of the organization as a whole, as long as it's financially beneficial for them, and then you'd have the sect-within-a-sect Red Wizards of Thay (Fundamentalists; Thayan National Revivalists).
I like that, a lot, actually.
:D
Basically, I put things back the way they were in 3e, with a wider geographic spread, so that now the 'Machievellian Intrigues' go on outsdide of Thay, rather then in (where Szass rules supreme). They've also obviously taken the place of the Zhents for FR's 'Black Market' - no one really likes them, but they're the guys to see when you need to purchase something a little 'less then legal',
They probably have a great many local officials, Port Authorities, Tax Collectors, and Constabulary chiefs bribed to look the other way. Not quite as pervasive as the RW Mafia - they'd be the guys the local thieves guilds go to to move stuff around, or take care of some business outside of their territory - sort of like 'neutral bad-guys' that everyone has to deal with. They'd even act as go-betweens in deals involving other guilds (thieves, assassins, cults, etc), or even other consortiums (Rundeen, Twisted Rune, Kraken Society).
They aren't quite 'bad guys' themselves anymore; more like where all the bad-guys 'go shopping'. They bill themselves as "Providers and Procurers of hard-to-find Items and Antiquities".
Actually... I think instead of a 'Black Market', in Faerûn it would be referred to as the "Red Market" in the vernacular.
"pssst... you know where I can find some Baalgyreum Toxin?"
"Thats stuff illegal... but I know where to purchae some on the Red Market"
Actually... I think instead of a 'Black Market', in Faerûn it would be referred to as the "Red Market" in the vernacular.
-The Zhents coined the term 'Black Market', with them being the 'Black Network'.