Scepter Tower Of Spellgard - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kildaere Sep 19, 2008 12:33:20	NOTE: SPOILERS *********************************** I have been really excited about getting this adventure as I was planning on using it to kick off my new 4e FR campaign. And I have to say I am pretty disappointed. Is it just me or does this module seem pretty half-baked? No offense to the writers, they have scipted a fairly ok dungeon crawl. The adventure just seems laking for an adventure to set the tone for their new 4e FR campaign. Or maybe it did do that and I just expected too much. Here are some of my specific gripes: 1. Where exactly does the adventure end? The end of book 2 is simply a regular encounter. I understand that the BBEG is a few levels down, but there is no wrap up? No quest XP for solving the adventure? No Hooks/suggestions for future adventures/products? Usually there is at least a paragraph of suggestions. There are suggestions in book 1 for how to run "the question" but is there an encounter with "the spirit"? Where is the end? Did I miss it from Book 1? (which leads me to gripe 2) 2. The "new" organization style for most of the 4e books is horrible (I like the new 4e PHB). Maybe I will get used to it, but I don't think so. The FRCG is a prime example of how NOT to organize a book, the Loudwater stuff up front seems cluttered and isn't what I need to see first, lots of flipping back and forth to find what I need. Same with SToS. Why do the room descriptions need to be in one section and the room encounter PAGES later. Cripes....the players are going to be wandering around the ruins in book one, but the description for when they first see the tower is burried in the middle of book 2. 3. Scaling. A level 10 elite (in disguise no less) against my likely party of 4, 4th level characters...I need to adjust this encounter or I am looking at a wipe. I didn't see any suggestions for scaling for 4-6 players. 4. The "hook". The hook for the adventure is the possible chance to get the answer to any question in the form of a crypic riddle? I will work something out with this. But as is, it is pretty weak. And without heavy re-work does not have the danger and importance of, say, a death cult trying to re-open a rift to the shadowfell. I think that is why I am so disappointed. I wanted a strong start for 4E FR, I like 4E, and I like the 4E realms. But a giant dungeon crawl with room after room after room of combat, and VERY few skill challenges or roleplay opportunites is ....well ...it is disappointing.
#2 lirdolin Sep 19, 2008 13:18:35	Although the seperation of the 'encounter' and the 'room description' is nothing new to 4e (it was introduced at the 'end' of 3e) I agree in disliking it, because you have to flip back and forth. Although the location of Spellgard is ripe with adventure, I must say the adventure itself reminds me of a story hook fleshed out. It's not bad, but not really good either. I would have liked to see more informations about the Fallen Lands surounding Spellgard (preferable in form of a seperated 2-page 'The Fallen Lands' write up similar to the Land-descriptions in the FRCG). There are informations about locations in it's vicinity (and a map), but for instance the 'Deep Maw' is only mentioned once and that's about it. Some more background-info about the lady-ghost of Spellgard wouldn't have hurt either. Although it will be usefull to people wanting to play in Spellgard/the Fallen Lands, I for one am glad, that it bought it as an e-book. Lirdolin
#3 lord_karsus Sep 19, 2008 15:17:19	-Having read someone else's review of it, they also agree that the premise behind it all- getting to ask a single question- is weak.
#4 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Sep 19, 2008 15:18:16	-Having read someone else's review of it, they also agree that the premise behind it all- getting to ask a single question- is weak. Hmm, what review? I'd like to see it.
#5 lord_karsus Sep 19, 2008 15:21:56	Hmm, what review? I'd like to see it. -THIS thread. When it gets moved here, this thread and that thread will be merged, so...
#6 kildaere Sep 19, 2008 15:43:45	I think my big issue is the lack of an encounter with our ghostly lady. Am I correct that there is not one...and it is up to the GM to work it in. It just seems lame to have the point of the adventure, the entire reason that the PCs are there, not have an encounter (really? I feel like it must be in there and I am just not seeing it). We are given a ton of combat encounters and for the end....well the GM can just make that up....here are some hints about how to handle prophesy. It just feels like a half-baked story hook idea that they fleshed out with a lot of combat encounters. I mean I do like the occasional Dungeon Crawl. But I can make those myself. When I pay close to $30.00 for an adventure I expect a bit more.
#7 kildaere Sep 19, 2008 16:41:59	I just found the "after the adventure" paragraphs on page 10. It is not much to go on. No quest rewards. No final XP. hmmmm. Without a final encounter setup, how are the PC's supposed to know that they need to "do the thing" to get her to appear. The poem does not seem to give a hint. The end of the adventure just seems loped off. I am getting closer...but I still feel like I am missing something.
#8 Harn_Winterfell Sep 19, 2008 16:48:34	Look through and check out the treasure rewards as well.
#9 kildaere Sep 19, 2008 18:07:12	I think I see what you mean. The "secured" items. So here is how I see the end: SPOILER **************************************** Show 1. Characters defeat the Big Bad Evil Guy 2. He has some money and some key items (get XP for defeating him) 3. Characters have the encounter in T10 (Get XP for that) 4. Characters some how figure out that they need to remove the A.P.s and do stuff with them. (I am still not clear on where they find the information that they need to do this). 5. The lady appears when they do this and they get their question 6. They also can go back and use certain things to get the "secured" items
#10 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Sep 21, 2008 20:52:02	-THIS thread. When it gets moved here, this thread and that thread will be merged, so... Thanks. If it's true that the adventure kinda fizzles out, that is dumb...
#11 Mr_Miscellany Sep 22, 2008 0:33:07	-THIS thread. There is no need to merge that thread with this one. The OP of the linked thread is clearly writing from a generalist-non FR DM point of view. :::::::::::::::::::: As someone who actually owns the product (I get the impression some of those who've commented postive/negative don't actually own it) I can say......I don't know yet. ;) I just bought it, but haven't read it yet. :P
#12 tastygreenapple Sep 23, 2008 9:50:36	It's a bit...lackluster in its final execution, and I for one, think it has too many combat encounters (but that's just my opinion, my groups really enjoys combat, so...). It's a simple thing to jazz it up a bit, but you kinda wish that they could have come up with something better for "the Big FR Adventure!(zorz) oh well... Overall, I give it a 3 out of 5 stars. Pretty good, but not the best, could have been better. Still using it, just have to alter it some.
#13 keveras Sep 23, 2008 10:06:58	Although the seperation of the 'encounter' and the 'room description' is nothing new to 4e (it was introduced at the 'end' of 3e) They had already 4e in mind, so don't blame 3e for this. I think my big issue is the lack of an encounter with our ghostly lady. At least the pic of her is better than the one in Lost Empires. Edit: Ok, when I look at the pic in SToS, I've to admit that the face is horrible. (and this isn't good at all)
#14 aseran Sep 23, 2008 10:11:45	I find myself getting this impression with a lot of adventure modules; on rare occasions you get really compelling stuff, on others, like this, you find yourself with little more than a basic--but serviceable--framework to flesh out with details pertaining to an ongoing adventure. I kind of like the format they use now, myself--it feels a lot more functional during the actual course of the gameplay. I plan on using this--how, though, pretty much depends on players. They might either be given a map to it as an oblique "reward" for services rendered by the Shades, or end up coming right up through the catacombs, which have been claimed by the Eminence of Araunt, entering the tower from below and finding it in the middle of Returned Abeir.
#15 Martryn Sep 23, 2008 16:08:25	I don't like the little mistakes throughout the thing. Example: The vampire spawn arrive in round 6: Barthus moves adjacent to as many of them as possible, than makes a desecrated ground attack as soon as it's recharged and at least some of the vampire spawn are bloodied. So as soon as those 1 HP minions are bloodied.... they can regenerate 4 HPs a round!
#16 rizzotherat72 Oct 07, 2008 19:13:37	How are DMs linking the Loudwater adventure with this? Seems like there is no link other than the adventure sites are close by. I agree with the comments on weak plot. I'm just completing a 3rd Ed mod of Dead Gods which the players have loved. I'm going to have to do a lot of work with Scepter Tower to make it anywhere near as compelling. I fear the players will blame 4th Ed rules for the letdown rather than the story if I don't.
#17 lord_karsus Oct 07, 2008 19:37:27	How are DMs linking the Loudwater adventure with this? Seems like there is no link other than the adventure sites are close by. -There aren't. They're stand alone adventures. You can link them if you want, but it's not as if they were designed such that, you do this book first, then this one, then this one, and so on. -If you want to link them...Well, both locales are in the north, so that's a start.
#18 rizzotherat72 Oct 08, 2008 3:11:46	-There aren't. They're stand alone adventures. You can link them if you want, but it's not as if they were designed such that, you do this book first, then this one, then this one, and so on. -If you want to link them...Well, both locales are in the north, so that's a start. Certainly living up to your byline there ;) I was expecting a little more in way of a link thematically or at least have some threats in common (given Loudwater is for 1st level, Scepter starts at 2nd, it seems obvious that most DMs kicking off their FR campaign for 4th ED will look to use them together. You gotta extract some value from the FRCS...) So, my post was a fish for ideas from DMs who have trod this path. Anyone?
#19 christopher_rowe Oct 08, 2008 7:35:31	Certainly living up to your byline there ;) I was expecting a little more in way of a link thematically or at least have some threats in common (given Loudwater is for 1st level, Scepter starts at 2nd, it seems obvious that most DMs kicking off their FR campaign for 4th ED will look to use them together. You gotta extract some value from the FRCS...) So, my post was a fish for ideas from DMs who have trod this path. Anyone? You might want to check the main Wizards site out. Looks like another 2nd level adventure set in that area had gone live at Dungeon this morning. (I haven't read it, but thought of your post when I saw the description.)
#20 henchman Jul 11, 2009 13:37:55	When I ran this, I wasn't doing Forgotten Realms, so I had a bit of freedom with the story. First of all, on the way, I had them following clues about an item that would surely interest the lady to a nearby town. Tracing it to a dealer, we found a lifelike statue of an eladrin holding the item, which would turn out to be a long undelivered enchanted 'message' to Saharel being carried by a long petrified messenger. She was healed and later became a PC but that's not necessary; she could just as easily have died. That kind of thing also gives you a reason to expand the encounter using whatever kind of personal or important message you wanted in an encounter with the Lady at the end. As for spicing up the adventure, I did end up using something like the Scepter Tower of Spellgard Sample Skill Challenge by GrudgeRockhorn. It adds a lot of life to the outdoors. In addition, my players ended up performing a skill challenge to lure kruthik to Vannak's camp from the nearby nest, serving as a distraction so we could perform some 'daring heroics' and liberate the halfling rogue I had replaced the captured elf with. The whole thing did seem a bit sparse, but there are ways to get around that. I'm going to be linking their questions into a crazy, tentacle-filled sequel to the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (great adventure.) So it's either going to have to be Revenge of the Temple of Elemental Evil, or Son of the Temple of Elemental Evil. :D

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

kildaere

Sep 19, 2008 12:33:20

NOTE: SPOILERS

***********************************

I have been really excited about getting this adventure as I was planning on using it to kick off my new 4e FR campaign. And I have to say I am pretty disappointed. Is it just me or does this module seem pretty half-baked? No offense to the writers, they have scipted a fairly ok dungeon crawl. The adventure just seems laking for an adventure to set the tone for their new 4e FR campaign. Or maybe it did do that and I just expected too much. Here are some of my specific gripes:

1. Where exactly does the adventure end? The end of book 2 is simply a regular encounter. I understand that the BBEG is a few levels down, but there is no wrap up? No quest XP for solving the adventure? No Hooks/suggestions for future adventures/products? Usually there is at least a paragraph of suggestions. There are suggestions in book 1 for how to run "the question" but is there an encounter with "the spirit"? Where is the end? Did I miss it from Book 1? (which leads me to gripe 2)

2. The "new" organization style for most of the 4e books is horrible (I like the new 4e PHB). Maybe I will get used to it, but I don't think so. The FRCG is a prime example of how NOT to organize a book, the Loudwater stuff up front seems cluttered and isn't what I need to see first, lots of flipping back and forth to find what I need. Same with SToS. Why do the room descriptions need to be in one section and the room encounter PAGES later. Cripes....the players are going to be wandering around the ruins in book one, but the description for when they first see the tower is burried in the middle of book 2.

3. Scaling. A level 10 elite (in disguise no less) against my likely party of 4, 4th level characters...I need to adjust this encounter or I am looking at a wipe. I didn't see any suggestions for scaling for 4-6 players.

4. The "hook". The hook for the adventure is the possible chance to get the answer to any question in the form of a crypic riddle? I will work something out with this. But as is, it is pretty weak. And without heavy re-work does not have the danger and importance of, say, a death cult trying to re-open a rift to the shadowfell.

I think that is why I am so disappointed. I wanted a strong start for 4E FR, I like 4E, and I like the 4E realms. But a giant dungeon crawl with room after room after room of combat, and VERY few skill challenges or roleplay opportunites is ....well ...it is disappointing.

lirdolin

Sep 19, 2008 13:18:35

Although the seperation of the 'encounter' and the 'room description' is nothing new to 4e (it was introduced at the 'end' of 3e) I agree in disliking it, because you have to flip back and forth.
Although the location of Spellgard is ripe with adventure, I must say the adventure itself reminds me of a story hook fleshed out. It's not bad, but not really good either.
I would have liked to see more informations about the Fallen Lands surounding Spellgard (preferable in form of a seperated 2-page 'The Fallen Lands' write up similar to the Land-descriptions in the FRCG). There are informations about locations in it's vicinity (and a map), but for instance the 'Deep Maw' is only mentioned once and that's about it. Some more background-info about the lady-ghost of Spellgard wouldn't have hurt either.

Although it will be usefull to people wanting to play in Spellgard/the Fallen Lands, I for one am glad, that it bought it as an e-book.

Lirdolin

lord_karsus

Sep 19, 2008 15:17:19

-Having read someone else's review of it, they also agree that the premise behind it all- getting to ask a single question- is weak.

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Sep 19, 2008 15:18:16

-Having read someone else's review of it, they also agree that the premise behind it all- getting to ask a single question- is weak.

Hmm, what review? I'd like to see it.

lord_karsus

Sep 19, 2008 15:21:56

Hmm, what review? I'd like to see it.

-THIS thread. When it gets moved here, this thread and that thread will be merged, so...

kildaere

Sep 19, 2008 15:43:45

I think my big issue is the lack of an encounter with our ghostly lady. Am I correct that there is not one...and it is up to the GM to work it in. It just seems lame to have the point of the adventure, the entire reason that the PCs are there, not have an encounter (really? I feel like it must be in there and I am just not seeing it). We are given a ton of combat encounters and for the end....well the GM can just make that up....here are some hints about how to handle prophesy.

It just feels like a half-baked story hook idea that they fleshed out with a lot of combat encounters. I mean I do like the occasional Dungeon Crawl. But I can make those myself. When I pay close to $30.00 for an adventure I expect a bit more.

kildaere

Sep 19, 2008 16:41:59

I just found the "after the adventure" paragraphs on page 10. It is not much to go on. No quest rewards. No final XP. hmmmm.

Without a final encounter setup, how are the PC's supposed to know that they need to "do the thing" to get her to appear. The poem does not seem to give a hint. The end of the adventure just seems loped off. I am getting closer...but I still feel like I am missing something.

Harn_Winterfell

Sep 19, 2008 16:48:34

Look through and check out the treasure rewards as well.

kildaere

Sep 19, 2008 18:07:12

I think I see what you mean. The "secured" items.

So here is how I see the end:

SPOILER
****************************************

Show

1. Characters defeat the Big Bad Evil Guy
2. He has some money and some key items (get XP for defeating him)
3. Characters have the encounter in T10 (Get XP for that)
4. Characters some how figure out that they need to remove the A.P.s and do stuff with them. (I am still not clear on where they find the information that they need to do this).
5. The lady appears when they do this and they get their question
6. They also can go back and use certain things to get the "secured" items

#10

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Sep 21, 2008 20:52:02

-THIS thread. When it gets moved here, this thread and that thread will be merged, so...

Thanks.

If it's true that the adventure kinda fizzles out, that is dumb...

#11

Mr_Miscellany

Sep 22, 2008 0:33:07

-THIS thread.

There is no need to merge that thread with this one. The OP of the linked thread is clearly writing from a generalist-non FR DM point of view.

::::::::::::::::::::

As someone who actually owns the product (I get the impression some of those who've commented postive/negative don't actually own it) I can say......I don't know yet. ;)

I just bought it, but haven't read it yet. :P

#12

tastygreenapple

Sep 23, 2008 9:50:36

It's a bit...lackluster in its final execution, and I for one, think it has too many combat encounters (but that's just my opinion, my groups really enjoys combat, so...). It's a simple thing to jazz it up a bit, but you kinda wish that they could have come up with something better for "the Big FR Adventure!(zorz)

oh well...

Overall, I give it a 3 out of 5 stars. Pretty good, but not the best, could have been better. Still using it, just have to alter it some.

#13

keveras

Sep 23, 2008 10:06:58

Although the seperation of the 'encounter' and the 'room description' is nothing new to 4e (it was introduced at the 'end' of 3e)

They had already 4e in mind, so don't blame 3e for this.

I think my big issue is the lack of an encounter with our ghostly lady.

At least the pic of her is better than the one in Lost Empires.

Edit:
Ok, when I look at the pic in SToS, I've to admit that the face is horrible. (and this isn't good at all)

#14

aseran

Sep 23, 2008 10:11:45

I find myself getting this impression with a lot of adventure modules; on rare occasions you get really compelling stuff, on others, like this, you find yourself with little more than a basic--but serviceable--framework to flesh out with details pertaining to an ongoing adventure. I kind of like the format they use now, myself--it feels a lot more functional during the actual course of the gameplay.

I plan on using this--how, though, pretty much depends on players. They might either be given a map to it as an oblique "reward" for services rendered by the Shades, or end up coming right up through the catacombs, which have been claimed by the Eminence of Araunt, entering the tower from below and finding it in the middle of Returned Abeir.

#15

Martryn

Sep 23, 2008 16:08:25

I don't like the little mistakes throughout the thing.

Example:

The vampire spawn arrive in round 6: Barthus moves adjacent to as many of them as possible, than makes a desecrated ground attack as soon as it's recharged and at least some of the vampire spawn are bloodied.

So as soon as those 1 HP minions are bloodied.... they can regenerate 4 HPs a round!

#16

rizzotherat72

Oct 07, 2008 19:13:37

How are DMs linking the Loudwater adventure with this? Seems like there is no link other than the adventure sites are close by.

I agree with the comments on weak plot. I'm just completing a 3rd Ed mod of Dead Gods which the players have loved. I'm going to have to do a lot of work with Scepter Tower to make it anywhere near as compelling. I fear the players will blame 4th Ed rules for the letdown rather than the story if I don't.

#17

lord_karsus

Oct 07, 2008 19:37:27

How are DMs linking the Loudwater adventure with this? Seems like there is no link other than the adventure sites are close by.

-There aren't. They're stand alone adventures. You can link them if you want, but it's not as if they were designed such that, you do this book first, then this one, then this one, and so on.

-If you want to link them...Well, both locales are in the north, so that's a start.

#18

rizzotherat72

Oct 08, 2008 3:11:46

-There aren't. They're stand alone adventures. You can link them if you want, but it's not as if they were designed such that, you do this book first, then this one, then this one, and so on.

-If you want to link them...Well, both locales are in the north, so that's a start.

Certainly living up to your byline there ;)

I was expecting a little more in way of a link thematically or at least have some threats in common (given Loudwater is for 1st level, Scepter starts at 2nd, it seems obvious that most DMs kicking off their FR campaign for 4th ED will look to use them together. You gotta extract some value from the FRCS...)

So, my post was a fish for ideas from DMs who have trod this path. Anyone?

#19

christopher_rowe

Oct 08, 2008 7:35:31

Certainly living up to your byline there ;)

I was expecting a little more in way of a link thematically or at least have some threats in common (given Loudwater is for 1st level, Scepter starts at 2nd, it seems obvious that most DMs kicking off their FR campaign for 4th ED will look to use them together. You gotta extract some value from the FRCS...)

So, my post was a fish for ideas from DMs who have trod this path. Anyone?

You might want to check the main Wizards site out. Looks like another 2nd level adventure set in that area had gone live at Dungeon this morning. (I haven't read it, but thought of your post when I saw the description.)

#20

henchman

Jul 11, 2009 13:37:55

When I ran this, I wasn't doing Forgotten Realms, so I had a bit of freedom with the story. First of all, on the way, I had them following clues about an item that would surely interest the lady to a nearby town. Tracing it to a dealer, we found a lifelike statue of an eladrin holding the item, which would turn out to be a long undelivered enchanted 'message' to Saharel being carried by a long petrified messenger. She was healed and later became a PC but that's not necessary; she could just as easily have died.

That kind of thing also gives you a reason to expand the encounter using whatever kind of personal or important message you wanted in an encounter with the Lady at the end. As for spicing up the adventure, I did end up using something like the Scepter Tower of Spellgard Sample Skill Challenge by GrudgeRockhorn. It adds a lot of life to the outdoors. In addition, my players ended up performing a skill challenge to lure kruthik to Vannak's camp from the nearby nest, serving as a distraction so we could perform some 'daring heroics' and liberate the halfling rogue I had replaced the captured elf with.

The whole thing did seem a bit sparse, but there are ways to get around that. I'm going to be linking their questions into a crazy, tentacle-filled sequel to the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (great adventure.) So it's either going to have to be Revenge of the Temple of Elemental Evil, or Son of the Temple of Elemental Evil. :D