-As has been discussed in other places, with the new Cleric rules, with the anointing them forever, and all of that, there really isn't a need for such a feat. You can be blessed and anointed in the name of Kelemvor, and turn around and begin preaching the word of Myrkul without any penalty, save being harried by Kelemvor's faithful.
Yup you are correct. However this opens some questions:
-What if you time travel back in time get anointed as a cleric and go back to the future?
- Is threre currently a way other than taking a feat corresponding to you deity, to prove wher your divine power comes from? I don´t think there currently is one )other than failing at using a deity specify holy symbol.
Sun disc of Pelor adapted for FR
Sun Disk of Amaunator
Level 8+
This holy symbol flashes with light as your faith unleashes radiant energy that sears your enemies.
Lvl 8 +2 3,400 gp
Lvl 13 +3 17,000 gp
Lvl 18 +4 85,000 gp
Lvl 23 +5 425,000 gp
Lvl 28 +6 2,125,000 gp
Implement (Holy Symbol)
Prerequisite: To use this symbol, you must worship Amaunator.
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d10 radiant damage per plus
Power (At-Will Radiant): Free Action. All damage dealt by powers using this holy symbol is radiant damage. Another free action returns the damage to normal.
-another thing is, that you can be anointed as the cleric of one god - but aren´t bound to worship him at all - so you could a cleric of bane ans suddenly think - "hey that Mystra chick was hot, now I will worship her" or take a living deity and you can even take the divinity feat.
So you could even restart a chruch of Mystra if you have a cleric (and maybe a god) to sponsor the divine power.
It seems with so many dead deities there could be plenty of raw power waiting to be tapped. My concept, after a character develops some sort of connection with a dead deity they take my 'servant of the fallen' feat. Then you replace healing word with an at-will poweras an encounrt power or an encounter power as a daily power appropriate to the dead deity and spice it up. For instance, you could take SOF for Eilistrae (spelling?) and then either take Moon Prayer (healing word but the special effect is moonlight instead of divine light) as a daily power or say, Moon Glow, a daily version of divine glow with the moonlight special effect. This can be extended to power swaps also. Any ideas on viability or balance? This is just the gist.
Servant of the fallen is currently no option, we asked Rich about it. However once you are anointed as a cleric you can just change your god.
So not unlike the followers of Lathander that wanted Amaunator back and guess what - they succeded.
So you could even restart a chruch of Mystra if you have a cleric (and maybe a god) to sponsor the divine power.
-Right. Oghma and Mystra were good enough buddies, so in theory, the Church of Oghma could establish and support a new Church of Mystra. Note, this works really good with churches that work hand-in-hand, or are subservient to other churches. Like Lolth and Selvetarm, or Oghma and Denier.
Of course, you wouldn't really be a servant of Mystra, just serve in her name.
-Well, what's is the line drawn? Druids who serve Chauntea receive their powers from Mystra, via the Weave, so would you consider them servants of Mystra, or Chauntea?
I'm just asking about using this as a way to truly gain power from dead deities in limited circumstances, as a sort of maverick. There would need to be a reason, such as coming into contact with some of what the FRCG called, her 'flotsam' or part of her essence somewhere, or perhaps using a ritual to summon a former divine servant, in order to gain access to this power.
Other than that, I was wondering if anyone thought that keeping powers basically the same except for doing things like change radiant to electricity, etc. would imbalance anything.
Other than that, I was wondering if anyone thought that keeping powers basically the same except for doing things like change radiant to electricity, etc. would imbalance anything.
Since changing things like that don't affect the type attack and damage from the spell, IMO no, it would not imbalance anything. I did the same thing to turn a paladin into a martial defender... see the link in my sig.
-Right. Oghma and Mystra were good enough buddies, so in theory, the Church of Oghma could establish and support a new Church of Mystra. Note, this works really good with churches that work hand-in-hand, or are subservient to other churches. Like Lolth and Selvetarm, or Oghma and Denier.
Oghma and Deneir is one thing. The big thing about Mystra - or in general a new god of magic - would be to reestablish a weave and deal with the plkaguelands.
But.... I am quite shure that the trick would not work yet. First you have to hit Shar with a half-brick so there can be a new god of magic. And actually I am working on a new plot in the direction (someone thinks they can become the new god of magic if the absorb/capture/kill sharn/spellplague and get all the way to demigod and ascend) .
Lolth and Selvetarm is pretty unlikely since Lolth killed him for trying to get his own church to grow - Lolth really doesn´t want to share her drow (or at least thats what the designers wanted).
But still, it has a sort of flavor to it. Some deities with specific verbs tied to them *CoughMask-StealingCough* could make it worth a little to bump in the RPG realm of the game.
IIRC Cyric once posed as Helm, but AO said it was ok bechause of his portfolio. And Mask is saved or damned by the next books, but hey Myrkul liked it as a "mortal" so maybe Mask likes it too.
He could join a group of adventurers trying to kill Cyric (the group consists of players ****** off about Cyric killing Mystra :D ) and once they succed, he could take the divine spark and ascend again. It workend for Asmodeus - though he had it far easier.
Of course, you wouldn't really be a servant of Mystra, just serve in her name. My version is for tapping into whatever bits of the dead deity's power is still out there. You could not be an ordained cleric either as the power would be too fragmented for that much to be ordained into one being. But, if you took a SOF Mystra variant, and all three power swap abilities, plus ritual caster, then the demigod path and achieve your destiny, you could become a low power demigod picked up by Oghma. One long step on the road to recovery.
IIRC you had to be a cleric of an existing deity first before you could take servant of the fallen, so my idea isn´t really that different - but thats mostly chaused by the changes through 4th. Once you get your power you can take any power you want from the cleric list (there aren´t any shadow powers or evil stuff just jet ;) ) the only thing that makes a cleric unique to each god is the divinity feat(s) and once you worship the new god you can take it.
Clerics no longer pray for spells, and a god can no longer take their spellcasting away if the cleric displeases him. Nowadays gods no longer know all the stuff they used to know - which is if you look at the old rules a good thing if you want them to be killable. :D
Mystra is currently quite dead, and as Rich explained the rituals/ceremonies of anointment no longer work if the source if power is gone. So well you could start worshipping Mystra, then search for a priest/god willing to give you cleric powers so you can follow your goals and do what you described. Becoming demigod (with Spellscar multiclass please -after all thats uncontrolled weave magic) to serve as a vessel for her ressurection is a viable plot.
-Well, what's is the line drawn? Druids who serve Chauntea receive their powers from Mystra, via the Weave, so would you consider them servants of Mystra, or Chauntea?
Mystra could not stop cleric from receiving spells over the weave, just from using the weave to cast them - but in the the end I guess thats one of the reason why she got axed. A power she wasn´t allowed to use.
But could mystra restrict use of the weave? I thought she was more like a Pillar holding up the perverbial celling. But I see where you get the symantics feeling. Power is power, no matter where you get it from.
She could, but rarely used the power (more likely that one of her chosen used the spell that gave negative levels if the subject used magic) Mystra wanted Magic to be used - the only thing that wasn´t allowed was mass destruction and killing other casters (like in wizard genocide, not just killing a caster here and there).
If Mystra were alive and Chauntea died, you could no longer receive spells as a cleric of Chauntea w/o SOF. If Mystra died, which she did, you could still receive powers from Chauntea if ordained by a cleric of Chauntea.
I'm just asking about using this as a way to truly gain power from dead deities in limited circumstances, as a sort of maverick. There would need to be a reason, such as coming into contact with some of what the FRCG called, her 'flotsam' or part of her essence somewhere, or perhaps using a ritual to summon a former divine servant, in order to gain access to this power.
Other than that, I was wondering if anyone thought that keeping powers basically the same except for doing things like change radiant to electricity, etc. would imbalance anything.
First if Chauntea died, getting spells would be your least concern. Talk about end of the world. Your idea with SOF doesn´t imbalance anything, clerics and paladins are nowadays balanced without having to follow a code.
So if you want to, go for it, it just won´t comply with canon - but once PCs appear in a game canon gets kicked.
But could mystra restrict use of the weave? I thought she was more like a Pillar holding up the perverbial celling.
-Yes, yes she could. In Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad, she threatened to use her ability to prevent others from accessing the Weave on Cyric, and I believed she used it once. Ao then reprimanded her, and never again did she do anything of that sort. It's from here that people get the notion that Mystra can, and often does ban people that she doesn't like from accessing the Weave. That, of course, is a notion based on incorrect facts, like to many other criticisms lobbied against the setting by those who aren't familiar with it.
But I see where you get the symantics feeling. Power is power, no matter where you get it from.
-Yes, that was the crux of the point I was making. It doesn't matter the source of your power necessarily.
Lolth and Selvetarm is pretty unlikely since Lolth killed him for trying to get his own church to grow - Lolth really doesn´t want to share her drow (or at least thats what the designers wanted).
-Lolth already controlled the Church of Selvetarm, to begin with. See Elves of Faerûn, or Demihuman Deities.
Mystra could not stop cleric from receiving spells over the weave, just from using the weave to cast them - but in the the end I guess thats one of the reason why she got axed. A power she wasn´t allowed to use.
-Indeed, she could. Being as that Divine Magic taps into the Weave, a Cleric of X needs their deity to grant them the actual power to cast the spell, and then Mystra's Weave, to make the spell happen. Note, I don't like this at all, but it is what it is.
-Just one more way that Mystra was made too important for her own good. But, like you said, it was a power that she was never allowed to use (not allowing others to access the Weave), so...
-Lolth already controlled the Church of Selvetarm, to begin with. See Elves of Faerûn, or Demihuman Deities.
-Indeed, she could. Being as that Divine Magic taps into the Weave, a Cleric of X needs their deity to grant them the actual power to cast the spell, and then Mystra's Weave, to make the spell happen. Note, I don't like this at all, but it is what it is.
-Just one more way that Mystra was made too important for her own good. But, like you said, it was a power that she was never allowed to use (not allowing others to access the Weave), so...
I think Lolth was startingto get mad when some of Selvetarms faithfull killed a cleric of Lolth. It happened in the terribly named Lady Penitend (sp?) triology (haven´t read the last book yet, after the end was spoiled I no longer cared).
I guess you could bring back Mysta as a god of magic (with a heavy promote the use and pratice of magice portofolio) without a huge divine rank, power over the weave and powered up chosen and all the haters would no longer care.
On the other hand I guess Bane will count as a superpower now since he got so many other gods under his controll and killed some others. Thay belongs to Bane now too. The only thing that bothers me is that lame new Symbol from the FRCG....but I recently uderstood what it is. It´s Yodas hand (saw soul calibur 4 recently) so Bane wants to get all the Starwars fans ....talk about the power of faith ;)
I think Lolth was startingto get mad when some of Selvetarms faithfull killed a cleric of Lolth. It happened in the terribly named Lady Penitend (sp?) triology (haven´t read the last book yet, after the end was spoiled I no longer cared).
-Again, read Elves of Faerûn, or Demihuman Deities. Lolth has always controlled Selvatarm's church, and it has always been, more or less, a sham, to allow the Church of Lolth to exploit male Drow who climbed the ladder in Selvatarm's church.
-Again, read Elves of Faerûn, or Demihuman Deities. Lolth has always controlled Selvatarm's church, and it has always been, more or less, a sham, to allow the Church of Lolth to exploit male Drow who climbed the ladder in Selvatarm's church.
Well I´ll have to put these sources on my reading list, but I believe you. However I guess it was the designers intention to bring Lolth back full circle to make her the only god the drow revere, so all those deaths weren´t really based on anything other than :"thats how the books have to end".
Well I´ll have to put these sources on my reading list, but I believe you. However I guess it was the designers intention to bring Lolth back full circle to make her the only god the drow revere, so all those deaths weren´t really based on anything other than :"thats how the books have to end".
-That much, I agree.
The following is something I work on, so it's not finished yet, but I thought their would be no harm in sharing it with you at this point as well.
It's in a way my way to handel the demise of so many of my rounds favorite gods: So your god is dead? Become your favorite god in epic play.
Dead Gods of Toril
Many gods perished around the time of the Spellplague and whole pantheons left Faerun, some of them following their worshippers to Abeir. Still many of these deities have some die-hard followers and believers even today. And most of these groups are looking for a way to return their dead or vanished patron.
Servant of the Fallen
Requires: as Initiate of the Faith
You multiclass as a cleric to a dead god. Although taking a primary class that was somehow connected to the deity (like wizards and Mystra) is the norm it’s not a requirement. This feat works like ‘Initiate of the Faith’ except:
It’s not possible to continue as a cleric of a dead god as a Paragon-Path.
Once per day you may call upon the powers of your fallen patron and gain one action point.
Some Paragon-Paths connected to dead gods, like ‘Harbringer of Myrkul’, do require this feat.
Shards of the Fallen (Epic Feat/Ritual?)
Requires: Trained: Religion & History, Demigod-Epic Path, Relics connected to the dead god
The Character becomes the Reincarnation of a Dead God (of Demigod-lvl).
At 30th level the Character gains a sphere of influence befitting the former god. Other ‘Servants of the Fallen’ dedicated to the reborn god may now progress as clerics as a Paragon-Path.
-Again, read Elves of Faerûn, or Demihuman Deities. Lolth has always controlled Selvatarm's church, and it has always been, more or less, a sham, to allow the Church of Lolth to exploit male Drow who climbed the ladder in Selvatarm's church.
And in the triology it seems that Selvetarm was trying to change that and Lolth found out before he was ready. Poor fellow
And in the triology it seems that Selvetarm was trying to change that and Lolth found out before he was ready. Poor fellow
-That's what you get when you try to undermine an tyrannical, despotic leader.