As a DM, how would you go about presenting Returned Abeir in a way that sets it apart from familiar Faerun?
Fundamentally here, we have a vast region that was all part of the same thing early on, but split off, and might have potentially taken a completely different path; evolutionarily, culturally, atmospherically, et cetera. However, as we read it in the FRCG, the threats and the societies found there don't seem too much different from what we're used to--as a general approach, this is well and good, but I can't at all envision at least a few subtle differences.
The Land
Just having a sky cast in grey metallics might be jarring enough--but what of the landscape itself? The flora seem more sparse under this, or in stark contrast to the lifeless sky it might grow more wildly and abundantly, right up to civilization's doorstep; something you'd find in Faerun to be in the heart of the High Forest, Cormanthor, or Chult. The mountains to the north; they're more rugged, more forbidding, more generally ominous than that which you might find even in places like the Spine of the World. This isn't a land cultivated by peoples guided by gods--this is a land tied inextricably to primordials; entities of a vast, primal nature first and foremost.
The People
Human, halfling, dwarf, and dragonborn; here we have people of ordinarily jarring differences brought together under the oppression of merciless Dragon Emperors, some of which have nonetheless cleared their own territory in the realm and resisted the beasts with great fortitude, as well as some who only recently have cast off the yoke right alongside them. The descriptions of the societies in the FRCG paint a picture of unusual optimism in the face of that kind of adversity. These are people that are very close to their heroes, that owe the shaping of their civilization almost entirely to adventurers much like any PC. The same could be said for many old cultures in Faerun, but unlike them, they don't all quite seem so comfortably dug-in that the trappings of civilization have mostly overshadowed their roots--yet, anyway. It certainly doesn't seem like it's been that long, in the greater scale, since the slave revolts.
But, especially here, how do they react to outlanders? Would they welcome Faerunians with open arms? Hell; these people barely even know what an elf is. They might not even bat an eye at a drow walking into town beyond simply curiosity over her skin tone. Then again, they might instead react with open hostility to all foreigners, just because they're that--foreign. Everyone might have an academic understand of what happened when the two worlds merged, but that doesn't prevent some potentially massive culture-shock from occurring anyway.
And on that note, what about them is different to a Faerunian's eyes? Even getting past the almost-certain lack of a common language, they might certainly dress differently, have different expectations of etiquette, or simply have a very exotic appearance. 30,000 years is a very, very long time, speaking in terms of human cultural evolution.
Threats
It seems ironic, but the enemies one might encounter in Abeir really don't seem that greatly different from ones Faerunians have faced as well--depraved dragons, sinister undead, great powers stirring in the darker spots of the map; all these things are what both Abeirans and Faerunians can look at and immediately know, "if we have any common ground at all, it's that these are our enemies." It's surprisingly clear-cut.
But, these are all the questions that've stuck on me since I cracked open the FRCG and decided I'd give Abeir--with all of it's outright newness--a good long look. What do you guys make of all this?
-I'd make 'Abeir' very..."trippy". Think Yellow Submarine. Think how the designers wanted to spruce up the mundane magical aura of the Forgotten Realms, by adding motes and things like that, but even more so.
-Basically, as John said:
Picture yourself in a boat on a river
With tangerine trees and marmalade skies.
Somebody calls you, you answer quite slowly
A girl with kaleidoscope eyes.
Cellophane flowers of yellow and green,
Towering over your head.
Look for the girl with the sun in
her eyes and she's gone.
...
Follow her down to a bridge by a fountain
Where rocking horse people eat marshmallow pies.
Ev'ryone smiles as you drift past the flowers
That grow so incredibly high.
Newspaper taxis appear on the shore,
Waiting to take you away.
Climb in the back with your head in
the clouds and you're gone.
...
Picture yourself on a train in a station
With plasticine porters with looking-glass ties.
Suddenly someone is there at the turnstile,
The girl with kaleidoscope eyes.
...
-Asides for Humans, were it up to me, I wouldn't have any other 'common' races. Maybe Halflings, or Gnomes, but certainly no Elves, no Dwarves...I'd make it full of the more 'extravagant' races...Genasi, Goliaths, Dragonborn, Tieflings, Cat-Folk, Yak-Folk, things like that.
Now see, that I LIKE. :D I was honestly kind of disappointed that, other than the addition of dragonborn, most races present were more or less their own usual selves. But this, I can get behind for sure, to the point where you're almost moving into Planescape territory with just weird racial diversity.
Damn...yak folk.
As for the rest of your suggestion...I'm not entirely certain I've got access to enough drugs to quite grasp it, and that old Yellow Submarine VHS looks like it's about to crumble in a stiff breeze...but I think I follow.
But this, I can get behind for sure, to the point where you're almost moving into Planescape territory with just weird racial diversity.
-Exactly.
Damn...yak folk.
-They need a home, too.
As for the rest of your suggestion...I'm not entirely certain I've got access to enough drugs to quite grasp it, and that old Yellow Submarine VHS looks like it's about to crumble in a stiff breeze...but I think I follow.
-Hey, you don't need drugs to appreciate it. But, what I was trying to get at, is the pure illogicalness and magical nature and such of what I would have wanted it to be.
-Asides for Humans, were it up to me, I wouldn't have any other 'common' races. Maybe Halflings, or Gnomes, but certainly no Elves, no Dwarves...I'd make it full of the more 'extravagant' races...Genasi, Goliaths, Dragonborn, Tieflings, Cat-Folk, Yak-Folk, things like that.
If we're going by what's in the FRCG, Abeir has humans, dwarves, genasi and dragonborn but no elves.
Anyway, on with the brainstorming!
I like the idea of having a very different selection of races populating Abeir, to justify this I'm a fan of saying that because of the world's unique nature planar travel is virtually impossible on Abeir. This means that Abeir lacks a good portion of the 'immigrant' races on FR with humans being the last race to arrive there. Angels, Demon's and Devils are therefore unheard of on Abeir, though powerful Elementals, Archons and other primodial-descendents often occupy similar places in Abeir's mythology. Likewise, Abeir has no Mind Flayers or Beholders, but considerably more active Aboleths than Toril.
Orcs and goblinoids are non-existant, though kobolds exist in great numbers and have numerous larger and more threatening subspieces that fill the gamut between kobolds and dragonspawn.
Given its seperation from Toril, I also found myself wondering what happens to the souls of Abeir's dead. The people of Abeir don't seem to worship gods, but it's unlikely they go to the Fuge Plane when they die. Personally I'm partial to the idea that Telos was the custodian/guide/devourer of dead souls on Abeir (read up on the origins of his name) but that since the Primordial's dissappearance, souls have had nowhere to go after death. Most of these souls exist as bodiless spirits unable to interact with the living world, but a large portion have become various forms of undead, such that the numbers of undead on Abeir have skyrocketed over the last century.
If we're going by what's in the FRCG, Abeir has humans, dwarves, genasi and dragonborn but no elves.
-Well, that's a good thing. I'd axe the Dwarves as well.
Given its seperation from Toril, I also found myself wondering what happens to the souls of Abeir's dead.
-An interesting idea for a new thread. If you'd like, go ahead. If not, I'll start it.
It's difficult to imagine any human society evolving with absolutely no semblance of religion, though. Perhaps they'd have an animistic faith (kinda like Shintoism, or something vaguely shamanic?) that attributes the unseen (rightfully) to vagrant souls or slumbering elemental forces.
I sort of picture their version of spirituality, now, at least in regards to the "afterlife", as something strongly circumscribed by ritual. Funeral proceedings are elaborate affairs with the soul being ceremonially 'released', so that it could reincarnate or become one with the earth.
If such a ceremony is not performed, there is the extremely real possibility that it may decay along with the body, become exposed, unprotected, to the necrotic forces at work in the Shadowfell, and rise as a malevolent undead. This being D&D, and specifically Forgotten Realms, this is literally what happens. We already know that Abeir is home to an underworld society of the restless dead, in an extremely literal sense--this would certainly explain just how it got to be that way.
Of course, the average Abeiran doesn't know the sordid details of the Eminence of Amaunt, but they'd still be a pretty superstitious lot when it comes to death.
How's that for fleshing it out?
Also, on a completely different note, you know what I realized Abeir also needs?
Saurials. Hell yes.
Personally I'd go with the peasantry of Abeir either worshipping their draconic overlords or largely fictional entities based on half-remembered legends of primordials/elementals, while the educated and the nobility are largely agnostic or leaning towards ancestor worship, reasoning that most of these religions are myths and that if the gods/titans do exist they seem largely indifferent to humanity, whereas your ancestors actualy care about you and there's always the chance that you might join their ranks one day.
Anyway I've made a thread at Karsus suggestion.
I figured I'd get something like this started, for any who've also had notions along these lines.
As a DM, how would you go about presenting Returned Abeir in a way that sets it apart from familiar Faerun?
Would it be inappropriate of me to say I would just use it in a different setting?
The descriptions of the societies in the FRCG paint a picture of unusual optimism in the face of that kind of adversity. These are people that are very close to their heroes, that owe the shaping of their civilization almost entirely to adventurers much like any PC.
Sounds like something Ed Greenwood would write.;)
I'm actually more interested in RA (as a seperate setting) than in the reworked Faerun.
-I'd make 'Abeir' very..."trippy". Think Yellow Submarine.
You could just go to Pepperland for that.:P
Damn...yak folk.
I know some, they're nice.
As for the rest of your suggestion...I'm not entirely certain I've got access to enough drugs to quite grasp it, and that old Yellow Submarine VHS looks like it's about to crumble in a stiff breeze...but I think I follow.
INDEED.
INDEED.
Dear god, I so needed that.
Would it be inappropriate of me to say I would just use it in a different setting?
I'm actually more interested in RA (as a seperate setting) than in the reworked Faerun.
I'm kinda feeling the same way, with all this. I'm starting to get some interesting ideas just for the different ways it might be skewed.
The actual framework I'm working up for it right now involves PCs originating from Faerun coming to explore it, but alongside them are plenty of others with similar agendas that're guaranteed to come into conflict; specifically the Zhentarim, Red Wizards, Cult of the Dragon, the Shades, Bregan d'Aerthe, and the Five Companies. All with different aims and different approaches, but all presenting plenty of problems even as the obstacles the PCs face in Abeir itself come to pile up. It could get insanely convoluted, but those seem to make for some of the best times in actual gaming, in my personal experience.
Dear god, I so needed that.
And that's exactly why I posted it.:D
I'm kinda feeling the same way, with all this. I'm starting to get some interesting ideas just for the different ways it might be skewed.
Glad to hear it.
You could just go to Pepperland for that.:P
-Maybe 'Abeir' is Pepperland...
I know some, they're nice.
-I hope I'm not a Yak-Folk.
-Maybe 'Abeir' is Pepperland...
Only if it's 80,000 leagues beneath the sea...
-I hope I'm not a Yak-Folk.
You aren't.
Only if it's 80,000 leagues beneath the sea...
-That might have been where it was hidden in 1e-3e.
You aren't.
-Okay, that's a good thing. You can be my Tressym. Only if you'd like, of course.
-That might have been where it was hidden in 1e-3e.
Oh yeah.:P
-Okay, that's a good thing. You can be my Tressym. Only if you'd like, of course.
Of course.
-I was loading something into my iPod, and another source of "Abeir" could also stem from Led Zeppelin album covers.
So I put together a list of these concepts and assigned the known primordials to their concepts.
Air - Akadi
Chaos – Bazim-Gorag
Creation
Day
Destruction – Kezef, the Chaos Hound
Dust
Earth – Grumbar
Entropy – Erek-Hus, the King of Terror
Fire – Kossuth
Force
Ice
Lightning
Magma
Mud – Borim of the Boiling Mud
Night – Dendar, the Night Serpent
Shadow
Steam -
Storms – Telos, Lord of the Iron Sky
Water – Istishia
Of course these are only guesses and any input on filling in the others and/or adding or subtracting spheres would be appreciated.
Bel
To be fair, nowhere in the FRCG does it say that Abeir wasn't 80,000 leagues beneath the sea.
-The Plane of Nowhere...The Demiplane of Holes ::Shudders ::
-The Plane of Nowhere...The Demiplane of Holes ::Shudders ::
I for one am shedding a tear right now for our dear, departed Plane of Vacuum.
I for one am shedding a tear right now for our dear, departed Plane of Vacuum.
It can be there if you want it to be.;)
I've been giving some thought to the nuances of culture within Returned Abeir. The groups I play with tend to gravitate towards a whole lot of dialogue, so this is usually a thing for me--I love to chew on these details.
The way it's presented (and depicted in what sparse bits of artwork there is), the civilizations in Returned Abeir have the same generic "Medieval Europe" look that's so, so very prevalent everywhere else. I, for one, think that's lame, we've already got plenty of that, so I'm for transplanting, borrowing, and otherwise blatantly ripping off distinctly non-European cultures, at the very least, to represent these new folks.
As to what I'd suggest, and have come up with thus far: stuff that originates from aboriginal or otherwise isolated, or failing that, simply exotic things work--universally, it's all advanced to a level of technology and cultural 'awareness' that's comparable to low-Renaissance, but the flavor of things should stay different.
For what it's worth, here's the sort of thing I'm using for my campaign:
The Sword Lands: The Sword river is the lifeblood of these independent holdings. Fishing is obviously a prime industry. The general appearance of the locals is superficially similar to Japan's aboriginal Ainu people, however, with loose, sturdy garments woven with intricate geometric patterns a common fashion, and past a certain age the men favor wearing long beards. (Ex. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/AinuGroup.JPG ) Other little details:
-Soldiers and town militiamen have a well-documented series of markings that they paint their faces with while on duty, to denote rank and responsibility.
-Feathers, beads, and intricately braided hair (including beards) are common accessories.
-Their religious culture is vaguely animistic, owing to the incredibly verdant land around the river, reverent of "Earth Spirits" (elemental creatures). The Swordlanders have a truly massive plethora of myths, legends, fables, and otherwise folklore concerning these spirits, including many a saga of adventures had by elemental archons and other such humanlike beings.
-Also owing to this proximity to the elements, genasi, particulary earth and water (assuming there are such distinctions in 4e), are extremely common among the populace.
Other little bits I've thrown in:
- The Eskornar are vaguely Indonesian, favoring gamelan music and kecak performances accompanying the theatrical enactment of folktales (ex. http://www.imeem.com/people/5J0waL/music/nyWJ7Znt/kecak_sekaha_ganda_sari_kecak/ ) and are known for extremely elaborate sculptures (which adds a whole new level of atmosphere to tombs within the region claimed by the Eminence of Araunt). (Examples: http://bp2.blogger.com/_W1ueYt1O3xs/Rs1EWKfbgbI/AAAAAAAAAlA/6FvQEm_l6F0/s1600-h/Bali,+Indonesia.jpg , http://farm1.static.flickr.com/146/418050667_5803709659.jpg?v=0 )
-The people of the Dusk Ports and the surrounding countryside have a superficially Navajo look about them, favoring a lot of earth-toned garments with distinctive woven patterns.
-Tarmalune (Pronounced: tar-ma-LOO-nay?) is almost certainly a giant cultural melting pot, but has probably over the years established a distinct feel itself thanks to this.
-I haven't come up with much yet for the Dragonborn, but I'm leaning towards a sort of Hebrew-ish motif, and a proclivity towards nomadism. (ham-handed, I know. The 'Pharaoh' they just escaped from could breathe fire!)
-Dwarves sort of overtake the traditional niche of elves here, being a somewhat reclusive folk with an enigmatic mystique about them, living 'closer to nature' than most humans. Very strong 'connection' to the primordials.
Of course, this is all painfully non-canon, and for all I know the FRPG is going to actually elaborate on the Abeiran culture itself anyway (and, I'm dreadfully certain, cement it as being yawn-inducingly generic medieval-European). Not that that's stopping anyone from staying distinct in their own campaigns, 'course.