Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 celestialkin May 01, 2008 23:30:12	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auppenser I found this very interesting, somewhat confusing, and extremely surprising. Instantly I remembered this one Wizard/Arcane fanatic player who's character(s) always had a little rivalry with my psion(s) (the (s)s is a complicated story) over "magic vs. psionics". It was always (well, usually) friendly, but now I doubt he would ever let me live this down. Another thing that got me was how Mystra seemed to genuinely care deeply about the fate of psionics. I would have never guessed. I figured she would have loved to see it gone and done with. What are your thoughts on this? Also, do you guys think there is any chance of the god of psionics making a comeback?
#2 the_ubbergeek May 01, 2008 23:51:18	Reposted from your sort of copy thread; Never forget that she is/was the, to make an explanation, more like the Mana Avatar than the Arcane Teacher (that would be Azuth the Mage god). So, in a way, as she is Ur-Magic... Considering how is Psionic power, the theme, the way it work.... why not? He could suddently have an Illumination, Awaken, touch the Satori so to speak. Psionic will still exist in the new edition (if not in the base three books), so... It's at least a reasonable way to put him back in business. While I never could play one still, I like the concept very much, btw.
#3 lord_karsus Jan 20, 2009 12:10:37	-I find Auppenser's entire existence silly.
#4 suzaku455 Jan 20, 2009 13:58:42	They're just another form of magic, they can be dispelled by dispel magic, have to roll manifester check to beat spell resistance etc. Unless of course you're using variant rule that psoinics are different from magic which I'll just throw a book at you...
#5 lord_karsus Jan 20, 2009 15:23:06	They're just another form of magic, they can be dispelled by dispel magic, have to roll manifester check to beat spell resistance etc. Unless of course you're using variant rule that psoinics are different from magic which I'll just throw a book at you... -What's the point of Psionics if you don't!? ;) -I've always used that rule. The only reason I like Psionics. Dark Chocolate and Milk Chocolate are both types of chocolate, sure, but they don't taste exactly the same.
#6 suzaku455 Jan 20, 2009 15:43:20	But if you're allergic to chocolate then you're allergic to both. It's kind of like Dark Chocolate is Arcane, Milk Chocolate is Divine and Mint Chocolate is Psionic. Kind of like Manhattan > Brooklyn ;)
#7 lord_karsus Jan 20, 2009 16:25:44	It's kind of like Dark Chocolate is Arcane, Milk Chocolate is Divine and Mint Chocolate is Psionic. -Exactly. Since they all taste different- albeit, only a little bit different- I wouldn't say that milk chocolate tastes like dark chocolate or white chocolate, and so on and so forth. Thus, I never used the Magic-Psionic Transparency rules.
#8 toastedamphibian Jan 20, 2009 16:32:41	-Exactly. Since they all taste different- albeit, only a little bit different- I wouldn't say that milk chocolate tastes like dark chocolate or white chocolate, and so on and so forth. Thus, I never used the Magic-Psionic Transparency rules. Nowonder you like psionics. Only 9/10th less creatures with resistance to it. White chocolate is not chocolate. It's soylectin, sugar, and vanilia. No coco in it at all.
#9 lord_karsus Jan 20, 2009 16:55:42	Nowonder you like psionics. Only 9/10th less creatures with resistance to it. -Or, because it presents a points-and-augmentation system that I find much preferable to the traditional Vancian spellcasting system White chocolate is not chocolate. It's soylectin, sugar, and vanilia. No coco in it at all. -Tell that to the people at Godiva!
#10 suzaku455 Jan 20, 2009 17:06:56	You can still enjoy the mechanic but still remain being effected by dispel magic...
#11 toastedamphibian Jan 20, 2009 17:08:42	Actually, I was mistaken. It normally contains Coccoa Butter. What's the point of Psionics if you don't!? You already said there is no point in using it if it doesn't bypass magical protections. No use trying to backpeddle now. :}
#12 lord_karsus Jan 20, 2009 21:27:44	Actually, I was mistaken. It normally contains Coccoa Butter. -A ha! You already said there is no point in using it if it doesn't bypass magical protections. No use trying to backpeddle now. :} -Well, yes. It isn't magic, so protections against magic shouldn't have any bearing on it. It's Psionics, not magic. It's not a "powergaming, rules lawyer" type of thing. 'A' is 'A' and 'B' is 'B'. 'A' is not 'B'. -All of this bodes poorly for Auppenser.
#13 sinfire_titan Jan 20, 2009 23:46:01	-A ha! -Well, yes. It isn't magic, so protections against magic shouldn't have any bearing on it. It's Psionics, not magic. It's not a "powergaming, rules lawyer" type of thing. 'A' is 'A' and 'B' is 'B'. 'A' is not 'B'. -All of this bodes poorly for Auppenser. It's worthless comparing Magic and Psionics to different kinds of Chocolate. The fact is that the Psionic/Magic transparency is there for balance purposes. THe variant is a holdover from AD&D and is incredibly unbalanced. Seriously, compare the number of Psionic creatures in the game to the number of magical ones. There's about 20 in the XPH and only 2 or 3 in the MM, as compared to the 600 or so magical ones. This means that only a fraction of the encounters you are throwing at a Psion are even resistant to his powers, and that those few are completely vulnerable to magic (!!!!!). It's not a Powergaming or Rules Lawyer thing at all, it's a Game Balance issue. In allowing the No Transparency variant, you've succssfully desabilized every bit of balance the designers so carefully put into the XPH. Congratulations, you've broken your own campaign.
#14 suzaku455 Jan 20, 2009 23:49:11	-A ha! -Well, yes. It isn't magic, so protections against magic shouldn't have any bearing on it. It's Psionics, not magic. It's not a "powergaming, rules lawyer" type of thing. 'A' is 'A' and 'B' is 'B'. 'A' is not 'B'. -All of this bodes poorly for Auppenser. By your logic I should be able to use this logic below -Well, yes. It isn't Arcane magic, so protection against magic (arcane) shouldn't have any bearing on Divine Magic. It's Divine Magic, not Arcane Magic. It's not a "powergaming, rules lawyer" type of thing. 'A' is 'A' and 'B' is 'B'. 'A' is not 'B'.
#15 sinfire_titan Jan 20, 2009 23:55:29	Could you put Quote tags around that? It took me a minute to realize you re-worded what he was saying.
#16 suzaku455 Jan 21, 2009 0:00:11	Is that better?
#17 sinfire_titan Jan 21, 2009 0:44:55	Is that better? Yes. Thank you.
#18 lord_karsus Jan 21, 2009 10:16:48	It's worthless comparing Magic and Psionics to different kinds of Chocolate. The fact is that the Psionic/Magic transparency is there for balance purposes. THe variant is a holdover from AD&D and is incredibly unbalanced. Seriously, compare the number of Psionic creatures in the game to the number of magical ones. There's about 20 in the XPH and only 2 or 3 in the MM, as compared to the 600 or so magical ones. This means that only a fraction of the encounters you are throwing at a Psion are even resistant to his powers, and that those few are completely vulnerable to magic (!!!!!). It's not a Powergaming or Rules Lawyer thing at all, it's a Game Balance issue. In allowing the No Transparency variant, you've succssfully desabilized every bit of balance the designers so carefully put into the XPH. Congratulations, you've broken your own campaign. -Having successfully used Psionics in my campaign for a while, I am still looking for the unbalancing part. Many people tote the phrase, but like anything else, it hasn't been inherently harmful to any games I have used it in. By your logic I should be able to use this logic below -Doesn't work. Both Arcane magic and Divine magic are both magic. Psionics are not magic. Psionics are psionics.
#19 suzaku455 Jan 21, 2009 15:23:10	Ok fine Psionic magic
#20 red_wizard Jan 21, 2009 20:39:29	Power is power is power IMO. So I agree with the analogy that White, Dark and Milk may all taste differently, but at the end of the day if you're allergic, you're allergic. When I look at the three - Psionic, Arcane and Divine - I see three different methods of channelling the same universal power. -RW