If so, what happens to the old areas of Toril? I believe Maztica isn't going to disappear but will sink (like Atlantis), but other regions are disappearing, so where do they go?
What if they went to Abeir instead? I think it'd be interesting to eventually get an Abeir sourcebook that shows what happened to all these regions and how another world was affected by the events. Alternatively, players could always make their own world ;)
What do others think? Interested in seeing an Abeir with some Toril regions?
-Oh yeah, all that reasoning, and the fact that, by and large, the regions that are being replaced are the regions that "very few liked", so...There's even less incentive, there.
-Oh yeah, all that reasoning, and the fact that, by and large, the regions that are being replaced are the regions that "very few liked", so...There's even less incentive, there.
By whose definition were they not popular? I never liked Maztica, but what about other areas?
What is gone by the way
Maztica, Unther, and a chunk of Chondath, at least.
are these Changelands Abeir?
By whose definition were they not popular? I never liked Maztica, but what about other areas?
-We've been through this already. This is one of the points so many people dislike: They're liked by some people. Everything has it's share of tractors and detractors.
What is gone by the way
-See MT's 4e FAQ. He compiled things.
-We've been through this already. This is one of the points so many people dislike: They're liked by some people. Everything has it's share of tractors and detractors.
I'm just pointing out that there is no definition as to what was "popular". Its not like they released a 3e maztica book that bombed
I'm just pointing out that there is no definition as to what was "popular".
-Yes, you are parroting what has already been said. ;)
Its not like they released a 3e maztica book that bombed
-Well, that's because it wasn't really that popular in 2e, so...
I only meant that I am good a re-stating things
-Yes, yes you are.
They did disrupt my own campaign plans for the region though... I had the last of the Vishanti elves, that had fled west after the last Crown War, having settled there, and rebuilt there own kingdom. They were working towards a time when they could assault Evermeet and gain revenge over the other "lesser" elves who dared to punish them. This is why the elves found there were so homocidal towards interlopers, they were keeping outsiders away from their masters.
Maybe I will work it so that they find themselves in a new world, assuming that the larger continent to the north of Maztica is taken too, and now they have to accelerate their plans to escape a hostile world.
Maztica failed, because it was to real world. If it had been what it will be in 4e, a starnge land full of unknown monsters and cultures, it might have worked better, but the author chose to write real world history with just a touch of the Realms involved.
That's exactly what I disliked about it.
That's exactly what I disliked about it.
As did I. I liked Kara-Tur but they should have stopped there. Did we need a real-world South America or even a Egypt, Arabia, India, and the others
As did I. I liked Kara-Tur but they should have stopped there. Did we need a real-world South America or even a Egypt, Arabia, India, and the others
To each their own, but I liked these areas and they will be missed.
-Regardless of their problems, for better or for worse, they were part of the Forgotten Realms, so...
To each their own, but I liked these areas and they will be missed.
Surely, Zakhara and Mulhorand had their advocates. In fact, I am sure they had more advocates that Maztica. I was never a big fan of Mulhorand specifically. I did not like that set up but they have been around awile for sure
Eh when did anything happen to Zakhara?
Nothing has happened to it per se. Though I believe the spellplague is global so they would theoretically have the same problems
Eh when did anything happen to Zakhara?
Nothing has happened to it per se. Though I believe the spellplague is global so they would theoretically have the same problems
-Right. It affected Faerûn and Maztica, so we should assume it affected Kara-Tur, Zakhara, Anchorome, Osse, and all of the other continents out there as well.
I thought I saw somewhere that Set survived and also recall some vague references to Mulhorand being toast, but beyond that I'm at a loss.
Anyone know what happened to Mulhorand and the Mulhorandi pantheon?
I thought I saw somewhere that Set survived and also recall some vague references to Mulhorand being toast, but beyond that I'm at a loss.
-See the 4e Changes FAQthread.
Didn't Drizzt mention the Mulhorandi in the future sight in the Orc King? Their empire isn't what it used to be.. or something of the sort.
-I...don't believe so.
Drizzt mentioned Mulhorand along with Thay and Sembia in a short list of places that had meant with disaster (unlike the orc kingdom!). He doesn't say what exactly happened to those places, though.
Rino is 100% correct
Rino is 100% correct
As usual!:P
So Mulhorand will go through a mighty crazy period during the spellplague. Set will likely take his chances with overthrowing the pantheon and its godkings.
yeah i think its set too.. a bit like in conan...
Eh when did anything happen to Zakhara?
we have no fate, but fate itself!
That said, the jann might have gotten real mean under their amir that perhaps finally managed to gather the peacock throne.. thus unleaching the curse that brought that city Mogh-something down aswell.
But even thats not really neccesary, the land was sparsely detailed as it was.
Also, they seem to want to get rid of any of the gods that were 'borrowed' from RW, and Set is one of the biggest offenders (although I like him a lot). Figure he makes a bid for Mulhorand, and at the same time Lathander 'eats' Ra and becomes Aumanator. Hoar was original, and Baast is better known as Sharess anyway, so they will probably stay, AFAIK.
Tyr's out, and I have a feeling we will loose a few others for the same reason, like Loviatar (NO!
) and Silvanus (I thought he would become Obad-Hai - they are EXACTLY the same, after all - but he isn't in the 4e book either).Pelor was an obvious choice for Lathander/Aumanator (remember that pic from the GHotR?), but they've changed him as well, and have given him agriculture! That doesn't really fit with the old interpretation of Aumanator (as per the Bedine's beliefs), but with so much changing, maybe poor old Silvanus will be rolled into this new Aumanator - perhaps that was what the Dawn Cataclysm was all about, and the gods involved resisted (Ra, Silvanus, perhaps a couple of others). Maybe Lathander was trying to re-absorb some 'wayward' aspects, and the Spellplague gave him another opportunity to get it done.
I know that sounds really hokey, but this is 4e we are talking about, and I'm just trying to figure out their plans, which doesn't follow any of the normal logic in most cases.
Anyway, like usual, I strayed from the topic (old age and all), but my point was that Mulhorand will probably become the 'ebil Snake Kingdom' a'la Stygia (as Ed imagined it), and Thay, which TSR tried to make into Ed's Mulhorand (without Set, though, just the 'Black Wizards' thing) is also being re-imagined closer to Ed's original - a mysterious 'far eastern' land of strange magic and stranger creatures.
Since Thay WAS Ed's Orient (it IS the Unapproachable East, after all), it makes me wonder how they will 'nuke' kara-Tur, if it becomes redundant.
And according to Brian R. James, Maztica is NOT destroyed, merely moved, and is still reachable if you know the way (to Abeir).
Now I have to go and check my Old Grey Box for that silly line about Undermountain and Abeir....
As usual!:P
Hey! Now you're stealing MY line. :P
On topic, I used Maztica and Zakhara both. Never used Kara-Tur. I admit, Maztica was my least favourite of the two, but I will still miss it. Amn got a fair amount of play in my games. And I used Maztica basically as a place to put everything new that I didn't feel had a place on the main continent. I suppose I can just do this with whatever's there now, but Maztica had history tying it to Faerun which I liked. A bit too RW, sure.
I'm not quite as clued up on the Abeir concept as the rest of you folks (I dislike the retcon), but I gather that Maztica's replacement is an abberation based continent in the style of Lords of Madness? Maybe this will be more meaningful than Maztica, I'll admit, but I prefer my far realm type material being in the far realm, not covering the continent next door as well. Maybe I'm wrong though, and this is all drivel. I am interested in seeing what Maztica's replacement looks like. If the idea turns out to be awesome I suppose I could be swayed.
Not too happy about Thay, though...
There is a portal to Areib in the undermountain. It's where they got the whole spellplauge idea, it was a one or two line blurb in the grey box set created by the dwarves who carved out the undermoutain.
Still looking for this - I don't think Undermountain is even mentioned in the 'Old Grey Box' - I know I can't seem to find it.
If the above poster - or anyone else for that matter - would like to elaborate on this, I would really appreciate it.
I think it mostly has to do with the militaristic dragonborn next door.
-Remember, ladies and gentlemen: A vote for Karsus is a vote against illegal Dragonborn immigrants taking the jobs our native Dragon-Kin can do!
Still looking for this - I don't think Undermountain is even mentioned in the 'Old Grey Box' - I know I can't seem to find it.
If the above poster - or anyone else for that matter - would like to elaborate on this, I would really appreciate it.
-It's not.
And as to your above 'cause', SIGN ME UP! :D
"Dey touk ow jubs!"
Gawdamn Finbacks! :P
"Dey touk ow jubs!"
Gawdamn Finbacks! :P
Too close for comfort 
So that was falsified info, then?
-Intentionally or unintentionally.
And as to your above 'cause', SIGN ME UP! :D
-I've been campaigning in THIS thread. You are in the Veep race, just to let you know. ;)
-Remember, ladies and gentlemen: A vote for Karsus is a vote against illegal Dragonborn immigrants taking the jobs our native Dragon-Kin can do!
-It's not.
Lord Karsus, surely you need a 5th dimensional imp as your running mate. I can pull that floating city of yours out of the past and create wizards robes that act as immunity to plot (100% pure plot armor). I can even weave a sweater out of the leftover strands of Mystra's weave. Pick me for your VP.
-Mister Mxyztplk, F**king up reality since the dawning of time.
Lord Karsus, surely you need a 5th dimensional imp as your running mate. I can pull that floating city of yours out of the past and create wizards robes that act as immunity to plot (100% pure plot armor). I can even weave a sweater out of the leftover strands of Mystra's weave. Pick me for your VP.
-Mister Mxyztplk, F**king up reality since the dawning of time.
-Well, the Hands of Karsus really aren't eligible. You guys will be like my Secret Service. If elected, of course.
-Well, the Hands of Karsus really aren't eligible. You guys will be like my Secret Service. If elected, of course.
-Well, the Hands of Karsus really aren't eligible. You guys will be like my Secret Service. If elected, of course.
Sweet! Can I start an anti-dragonborn weapon manufacturing company?
Sorry, but it was a 'spoof' of a 'spoof' - you need to see the Southpark episode with the people from the future who come to get jobs, and they refer to them as 'Goobacks'.
I love SP because it is SO politically relevant, and the bottom line is that the people are calling them names because they are mad that the future-people do THEIR JOBS better for less money.
VERY poignent - if Americans weren't so greedy and lazy, they wouldn't be in jeopardy of losing their jobs in the first place.
Sorry, but it was a 'spoof' of a 'spoof' - you need to see the Southpark episode with the people from the future who come to get jobs, and they refer to them as 'Goobacks'.
I love SP because it is SO politically relevant, and the bottom line is that the people are calling them names because they are mad that the future-people do THEIR JOBS better for less money.
VERY poignent - if Americans weren't so greedy and lazy, they wouldn't be in jeopardy of losing their jobs in the first place.
actually its about trying to compete with someone taking 8 quids a week in pay, and they get welfare and free services on top of that useless pay. You arent eligeble for the same treat. No, you should be paying taxes on that 32 dollars a month income, no welfare and you will be asked to pay for healthcare, education, insurance, taking a drivers licence etc...
The governments policies are nothing short of genocide.
So please, dont go about spouting about some superrich media houses lies. They want that cheap labour they dont have to pay for.. thus they want you to think you shouldn't be up in arms.
actually its about trying to compete with someone taking 8 quids a week in pay, and they get welfare and free services on top of that useless pay. You arent eligeble for the same treat. No, you should be paying taxes on that 32 dollars a month income, no welfare and you will be asked to pay for healthcare, education, insurance, taking a drivers licence etc...
The governments policies are nothing short of genocide.
So please, dont go about spouting about some superrich media houses lies. They want that cheap labour they dont have to pay for.. thus they want you to think you shouldn't be up in arms.
And this is not just an American problem, Europe has a large number of Africans trying to head north to find better conditions.
Pro illegal-immigration people need to stop spending money to convince us that it is all ok, and start spending it to improve conditions in the countries of origin of those immigrants to provide reforms that will provide opportunities there. Which would also force those businesses here to start paying real wages for work, when they no longer have cheap labor to fill those jobs.
-But, such discussions are not only off-topic, but against the CoC, so let's avoid them, or keep 'em in PMs.
-Remember, a vote for Karsus is a vote against illegal Dragonborn.
-But, such discussions are not only off-topic, but against the CoC, so let's avoid them, or keep 'em in PMs.
You're right, just kinda slipped out.
Sorry
And, on topic, what about the portals that were being created between Faerun and Maztica, where do they go, if anywhere? Did they just go random, or maybe a way to traverse the two worlds... Also how much of the continent of Maztica is gone, because (not to go back to off topic) there was a large amount of unexplored land to the north and I wonder if any of that remains.
You're right, just kinda slipped out.
Sorry
-You don't have to apologize.
And, on topic, what about the portals that were being created between Faerun and Maztica, where do they go, if anywhere?
-Are there any rules anywhere for "broken" portals? 'Cause, odds are, those portals are broken now.
Also how much of the continent of Maztica is gone...
-All of it.
...there was a large amount of unexplored land to the north and I wonder if any of that remains.
-That was Anchorome. Back in September or so, rumors were that Ed Greenwood was going to be fully detailing it. Now that word's reached that he's detailing the landmass from "Abeir" that replaced Maztica, I believe that those earlier rumors were mistaken.
For the last 10 years, I have kept throwing references to Maztica into my games. Maztican NPCs, brief visits to Maztica, a bunch of Cormyrean mages trying to unravel the secrets of pluma magic and so on. While I concur that Maztica was not implemented perfectly -- in fact, I would concede that the boxed set was pretty bad -- I love the concept and if they're excising Maztica from Faerun, that's a big reason for me not to buy 4e FR. (Not the only one, however. I don't make such big decisions on just one thing.)
-In the end, it is indeed your prerogative to buy into the product or not.
My son picked up the 4e MM... I won't go into that, but I'm thinking about posting a DETAILED anlysis/review over at CK - and several races (Yuan-ti, Naga, etc) are HEAVILY connected with Zehir... I'm thinking they are going to merge him with Set for FR. The connections are just too intrinsic, and it wouldn't make sense for them to re-write them or FR lore to make it work. The easiest solution would be just to say Set has ALWAYS been Zehir, and that was his Earth/Egyptian name, which transferred along with those cultures.
I just want to let you know that over on CK, Brian James has stated that Zehir is not a 4E FR god.
-Are there any rules anywhere for "broken" portals? 'Cause, odds are, those portals are broken now.
In one of the first few chapters of the 3ed FRCS, there are rules/spells/descriptions concerned with portals.
In one of the first few chapters of the 3ed FRCS, there are rules/spells/descriptions concerned with portals.
-I seemed to recall something.
-G-d knows, though, if those rules are still in effect, with the new ruleset and everything.