is it possible to use Vindicator to resurrect Helm??
we don't need the weave.
and we dont want mystra back.
I would like Helm back though.
You did stipulate he had to be sitting...... ;)
I'd like alternate realities/timelines for 5e than ''super'' adventures
-That'd be interesting, but TSR/WotC has never really done alternate dimension-type things. That would mean they'd have to support these theoretical places, which would basically dedicate precious space in either print or online with material that is more or less "throw away", as in it doesn't really affect too much the actual Forgotten Realms. The only mention of an alternate dimension would be in Bruce Cordell's Darkvision novel, and that made little-to-no sense, all in all.
-Alternate dimensions though, that is interesting stuff to think about.
Are you suggesting Charles Xavier for the position?
You did stipulate he had to be sitting...... ;)
funny.
and didnt marvel say that he was stryfe??
and didnt marvel say that he was stryfe??
-Cable. Stryfe was a clone of Cable that was created by Mother Askani (Rachel Summers/Phoenix) in case Cable succumbed to the Techno-Organic Virus that was kidnapped, brainwashed and raised by Apocalypse, to be used as his next host body.
@ MT Xavier would be God of Psionics.... duh! and lets stop the comics references
we need a sitting god of magic.
"Need" is a strong word.
we need a sitting god of magic.
No we don't.
"Need" is a strong word.
-We don't need a deity of magic. We just need an explanation as to how magic is still possible, given all we know about Raw Magic and the Weave.
LK: TSR did have an accessory called Chronomancer. And I think the DragonLance modules that were following the books had some time travel too. At least in 1E there was a 9th level wizard spell Timereaver.
-I know: I have Chronomancer. ;)
-That doesn't really get into alternate dimensions, and the support thereof. If I recall (it's been a while since I actually looked at it, read alone read through it), there's a section, or sections, about the effects of time travel on people, places and things, and the different scenarios can happen as a result, but I wouldn't really qualify that as the active support of alternate-dimension versions of official settings.
-A "What If?" line would be really cool, but plenty of effort would need to be put into all of that, something I don't see WotC doing.
No we don't.
Boccob never bothered anyone.
I doubt Azuth would have either if they let him live.
Heck, Mystra bothers people less than many want to believe.
and we dont want mystra back.
long as "we" doesn't imply that I'm included or in agreement
I personally want Mystra and the Weave back more than I want oh EVERYTHING done to the realms post 1385 DR. Her death is on the short list of reasons (about 2-5 other reasons some connected) that I won't spend money on any FR product even vaguely connected to the Spellplague or set after 1385DR.
no more mystra.
midnight/mystra's write up was a joke and so was the weave.
all it did in the end was give the designers a reason to create the shadowweave and give it to shar.
(may her black arsed soul rot in Asmodaus's clutches)
and yes okay when I say magic I mean a sitting god of arcanists.
I want Vhaeraun back.
But back to the thread, what is Vindicator?
a bastard sword in Eric Scot deBIe's Downshadow of the Ed Greenwood presents: WATERDEEP line of novels
we don't need the weave.
and we dont want mystra back.
Who is this "we" you speak of ;) ?
Anyway, I liked the idea of Mystra (whatever the incarnation) and she was usually neutral enough not to matter all that much except as a sort of guardian of the balance of magic. The idea of the sentience of magic being, effectively, a deity, is imo way better than that of an uber-outsider staking his/her/its claim on any supernatural occurences and saying "Listen up, you, that here's my turf. Capisce?".
Resurrecting a deity, as LK said, is as easy to do when the plot requires it as killing one is. Given the explanation we had for the deaths of Mystra, Helm and others it might take the death of a single cranium rat to bring them back.
Resurrecting a deity, as LK said, is as easy to do when the plot requires it as killing one is. Given the explanation we had for the deaths of Mystra, Helm and others it might take the death of a single cranium rat to bring them back.
-Looking back, it all sounds like a situation that a wacky cranium rat would think up.
Who is this "we" you speak of ;) ?
Dunno, but I'm not part of that "we" either.
Anyway, I liked the idea of Mystra (whatever the incarnation) and she was usually neutral enough not to matter all that much except as a sort of guardian of the balance of magic. The idea of the sentience of magic being, effectively, a deity, is imo way better than that of an uber-outsider staking his/her/its claim on any supernatural occurences and saying "Listen up, you, that here's my turf. Capisce?".
I like her too(in all her incarnations), enough so that my homebrew FR has Mystril back as the deity of magic(N alignment), and Midnight is with Kelemvor, working as my FR's Raven Queen.
Poor Cyric! First he failed to slay Mystra/Midnight in my homebrew, now he has to endure the fact she and Kel are back in each other's arms...
Resurrecting a deity, as LK said, is as easy to do when the plot requires it as killing one is.
Worked fine for Bane in 3E...:P
thats because Bane was a bad a$$
can't argue with you there...
thats because Bane was a bad a$$
-So, if Bane was a badass, and thus, was able to bring himself back to life, then Mystra's revival is imminent. After all, wasn't Mystra the ultimate tyrant, with a monopoly on magic and the use thereof, who sought to shape the world into something she saw more favorably, based on her own personal biases, through the use of her powers...?
;)
liked Helm better than her.
and yes she was the ultimate Tyrant, right up there with Tyr.
like'em better dead.
mystra 1.0 or mystryl
-I know: I have Chronomancer. ;)
-That doesn't really get into alternate dimensions, and the support thereof. If I recall (it's been a while since I actually looked at it, read alone read through it), there's a section, or sections, about the effects of time travel on people, places and things, and the different scenarios can happen as a result, but I wouldn't really qualify that as the active support of alternate-dimension versions of official settings.
-A "What If?" line would be really cool, but plenty of effort would need to be put into all of that, something I don't see WotC doing.
The Arcane Ages-Series had timetravelling stuff and some kind of rules in it. I believe it was in Cormanthyr, where there was said that Mystra hold her hands over timetravelling and prevent people who try it from undoing something of their own future. Maybe that is the reason why there could not exist any alternative forms of the actual Forgotten Realms.
Well but that goes only until the 4th Ed. Another nice thing to think about is, now that Mystra is dead, who guards timetravellers? I mean if someone of 1475 DR uses a spell and travels back to, let's say the day when "the ominous ape learned to fly" in -339 DR, how can Mystra create a backup of their version of the future, if she is not there and has no knowledge about the events leading to that special version of the future? If she creates a backup from that time, when they cross the date of Mystra's ultimate destruction, she even can become aware of what will happen to her in the future and maybe circumvent her own death. Well better not to touch this plagued logic hole, it's just another one.
But back to the thread, what is Vindicator?
I remember that I have read about it somewhere, but can't remember where it was. The only thing which crosses my mind now is a cruiser from the Star Wars EU, looking like an Interdictor. But someone else here knows the answer, if they only would be so kind to let us know it.
*cough* Myrin *cough*
The Arcane Ages-Series had timetravelling stuff and some kind of rules in it. I believe it was in Cormanthyr, where there was said that Mystra hold her hands over timetravelling and prevent people who try it from undoing something of their own future. Maybe that is the reason why there could not exist any alternative forms of the actual Forgotten Realms.
-That wasn't really support for alternate dimensions or anything like that. I'm talking like Marvel "What If?" comics. What if Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul hadn't stolen the Tablets of Fate, what if Myth Drannor hadn't fallen, what if Ioulaum had cast Karsus' Avatar, those big kinds of what ifs that would have massive changes, if they happened like that.
Mystryl, Mystra...
*cough* Myrin *cough*
-Don't get it.
downshadow girl
nice kid, but not as hot as the Fox at Twilight
Show
My impression from the book was that Myrin has a soulshard part of Halasters soul in her. She has a Rogue-like azure spellscar that absorbs magic.
-That'd be interesting, but TSR/WotC has never really done alternate dimension-type things. That would mean they'd have to support these theoretical places, which would basically dedicate precious space in either print or online with material that is more or less "throw away", as in it doesn't really affect too much the actual Forgotten Realms. The only mention of an alternate dimension would be in Bruce Cordell's Darkvision novel, and that made little-to-no sense, all in all.
-Alternate dimensions though, that is interesting stuff to think about.
even that can be fixed, no quality lore should be invalidated
we need a sitting god of magic.
we don't need the weave.
and we dont want mystra back.
I would like Helm back though.
You should not say "we" when you are making those statements. "I" want the weave back AND Mystra back. Mystra and the Weave were big parts of FR for me and the fact that they ripped them out of the setting was pretty tragic for me. But I will allow that not everyone feels the way I do, you should do the same.
You should not say "we" when you are making those statements. "I" want the weave back AND Mystra back. Mystra and the Weave were big parts of FR for me and the fact that they ripped them out of the setting was pretty tragic for me. But I will allow that not everyone feels the way I do, you should do the same.
You're a better person than the supposed waves of reputedly disenfranchised would-be-fans of the Realms who hated Mystra and the Weave and created their loud ruckus to get their way.
Funny thing is I don't believe most of those people would use the Realms once those Weave elements were removed. Whereas those of us who do (or did) use the Realms have to deal with yet another disruption to an already precariously swiss-cheesed setting.
(Yes, I'm pulverizing the dead horses at a sub-atomic level by now.)
Funny thing is I don't believe most of those people would use the Realms once those Weave elements were removed.
I like the removal of both actually and I never liked Mystra especially. Trying to argue Mystra was "neutral" with an army (somewhat) of generally Good aligned epic level characters as her chosen is an extremely disingenuous argument to me and always has been. I have never liked the metaplot around her and the chosen either; so seeing her dead even under completely illogical circumstances (I still can't figure out how they managed to write it like that) was a definite step forward for the setting to me.
I like the removal of both actually and I never liked Mystra especially. Trying to argue Mystra was "neutral" with an army (somewhat) of generally Good aligned epic level characters as her chosen is an extremely disingenuous argument to me and always has been. I have never liked the metaplot around her and the chosen either; so seeing her dead even under completely illogical circumstances (I still can't figure out how they managed to write it like that) was a definite step forward for the setting to me.
I actually don't disagree that her role could be reduced or made less apparent (more behind the scenes as opposed to upfront heroics and strong-arming like in the novels). I generally dislike the method and then the complete dropping of that 20-year-old, since-inception (as a published setting) flavoring.
If good chosen were the problem, they were a bit more expendable and readily changeable (retired, de-powered, killed, imprisoned, vanished or otherwise removed) from the setting than the very physics of magic. The chosen sometimes do some not so great things in the name of good (or otherwise), it's a bit more nuanced situation than flat alignment listings.
I like to separate the setting flavor element from the novel version of individual personas which don't even seem like a good representation based on the sourcebook info. I feel most of the people against those elements are just jumping on the bandwagon after a brief browsing of the setting, parroting what a few disgruntled players and readers reiterate. But that's just my opinion.
This argument is going to go around like it has for month and years. Drop your stock reply in like I just did and we can call it a night.
If good chosen were the problem, they were a bit more expendable and readily changeable (retired, de-powered, killed, imprisoned, vanished or otherwise removed) from the setting than the very physics of magic
Which is exactly what killing Mystra accomplished. It's the neatest solution to both, because if you have her there what prevents her from simply making more?
Well you can't if you're dead. So that's the optimal solution to them.
there's dead and then there's dead.
you dont Believe me, ask Bane.
they could bring back Mystra, or elevate Elminster and The Symbul
Let's not make things even worse now.
Does anyone know what has happened to Torm? He was always my favorite God from the rpg and novels.
-He's still around, and has received a 'promotion', of sorts; see the FRCG for the exact details. Overall, nothing major has changed about him.
I never really cared for Mystra 2.0 (or Mystryl 3.0, depending on how you look at it) - all the characters from the ToT novvels left me flat. The only one that was interesting was Cyric, and then they made him a complete A-hole (and a stupid one at that).
Anyhow, I appreciated the Weave for the flavor it brought to the setting, but since I am a multispheric DM, it didn't really make a lot of sense in the greater scheme of things.
Ergo, Mystra and the Weave I could take or leave - it doesn't really matter to me all that much either way, and it won't effect my games a bit.
At this point, I'm creating my own pantheon, which I will use in my next campaign, whether it's FR or not. I'm tired of some unfeeling company trying to tell all of us which gods we can and can't play with.
I never really cared for Mystra 2.0 (or Mystryl 3.0, depending on how you look at it) - all the characters from the ToT novvels left me flat. The only one that was interesting was Cyric, and then they made him a complete A-hole (and a stupid one at that).
Quite frankly, they should have nuked the whole lot of them from Orbit and started over. I am convinced from reading the boards again, some novels and sourcebooks that Faerun has the stupidest Gods in existence. How do beings this dumb become Gods and not get killed by any high level daemon, devil, or other similar immortal with half a brain
Suffice it to say that most people only have a limited amount of creativity, and after awhile, it all gets used up.
Thats when we start to see the same plots over and over again, and 'fallen civilizations' coming back.
How do beings this dumb become Gods and not get killed by any high level daemon, devil, or other similar immortal with half a brain
-As you'll notice, the behavior of the various deities being portrayed differs from writer to writer, and from novel to sourcebook.