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Source of Magic in FR 4E

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
thomill
Sep 20, 2008 11:18:05 Hello,

I need some help in understanding the "source" of magic in 4E FR. I thought I had a relatively good handle on this, having read all of the prior edition rule books and about 90% of the novels. (Some novels I could no longer find in print or even used; for example, I still do not understand the initial band on epic spells, but that is for another post.) I have read the new 4E rulebooks only once so far, so I will admit to not fulling digesting them as of yet.

I have always been fascinated by Mystra and her Chosen, and I had thought (incorrectly?) that her diety was the source of magic via her Weave. Excluding the Shadow Weave for now, I thought this was the basis for spells "working" in the realms. During the ToT, I further thought that the lack of the stability of the Weave contributing to spellcasting failures.

Now that Mystra is no more (which, for what it is worth, really was distressing to learn), my question is this - what is the source of magic in the realms? Outside of spellplagued regions, magic is to work as intended (right?) - but was is the basis for this now that Mystra is gone?

Thanks.
T
#2
xmen510
Sep 20, 2008 13:34:20 Technically the Weave is still the source of Magic I believe (it is everywhere and infuses everything). There just isn't a God (Mystra) in control of it anymore. It is now open to anyone and everyone to use unconstrained. In this way, they can explain the change of "Rules" in the use of magic itself. After Mystras' death, it balanced out and calmed down so the average person could access it without her intervention. The Weave was always there, Mystra just brought balance to it.

I could be wrong, but I believe that is it in a nutshell.
#3
Mr_Miscellany
Sep 20, 2008 13:58:30 Raw, untamed magic (and not necessarily the Weave, which is now gone with Mystra's demise) still suffuses everything in the Realms.

Sans Mystra, there is no longer a medium or mediator of interaction between mortal spellcasters and raw magic.

Instead, spellcasters must access magic directly and often suffer the dire consequences for it.

A pet theory of mine I'm working on is that this is why rituals are required (in the 4E sense of the term) to cast so many different kinds of magic in this current ere of the Realms, because magic is too raw and untamed a thing now to be manipulated with simple gestures, paltry spell components and a few precisely spoken words.
#4
thomill
Sep 20, 2008 16:14:30 Many thanks. I hear that NWN-3 will have some storyline elements in this area - looking forward to this if so. Hopefully there will be some new FR novels around the time of the Spellplague as well.

Thanks again.
T
#5
karazhan
Sep 20, 2008 21:04:32 According to all that I have read in the new novels and guides, I agree with Mr Miscellany: Raw magic is now tapped to work spells. This explains why magic is (1) weaker, (2) requires rituals for more powerful magics, and (3) implements are needed to channels and focus magic.

I also think one interesting possibility introduced in the novel Mistshore is that the spellscarred are the last "weavers", custodians of the Art that was lost. While the guides portray spellscarred as being tainted, I think that they will be the ones to restore the Weave (if it ever is restored).
#6
lord_karsus
Sep 21, 2008 20:35:32
I also think one interesting possibility introduced in the novel Mistshore is that the spellscarred are the last "weavers", custodians of the Art that was lost. While the guides portray spellscarred as being tainted, I think that they will be the ones to restore the Weave (if it ever is restored).

-That sounds a lot like why I said the Sharn might be spreading Spellplague: It's the corrupted remnants of the Weave that, when encompassing everything, may return the Weave into being.
#7
zousha_omenohu
Sep 22, 2008 8:45:09
Many thanks. I hear that NWN-3 will have some storyline elements in this area - looking forward to this if so. Hopefully there will be some new FR novels around the time of the Spellplague as well.

Thanks again.
T

Neverwinter Nights 3? But there's no Neverwinter anymore. Both it and Luskan were basically nuked when the Spellplague hit, weren't they?
#8
rinonalyrna_fathomlin
Sep 22, 2008 10:33:23 I know NWN2 is going to have another expansion, but I haven't heard that NWN3 is coming out.
#9
GreenKnight
Sep 22, 2008 10:46:38 The Weave wasn't the source of magic in the Forgotten Realms. It was just an interface between the mortal spellcasters and the untamed forces of magic.
#10
GreenKnight
Sep 22, 2008 10:53:06
Many thanks. I hear that NWN-3 will have some storyline elements in this area - looking forward to this if so. Hopefully there will be some new FR novels around the time of the Spellplague as well.

Thanks again.
T

I haven't heard anything about a Neverwinter Nights 3, but I really hope it comes out. I loved NWN2, and would definitely like to play a computer game based on 4E rules. I just wish the combat was turn-based.
#11
lord_karsus
Sep 22, 2008 12:05:33
The Weave wasn't the source of magic in the Forgotten Realms. It was just an interface between the mortal spellcasters and the untamed forces of magic.

-The Weave was/is what made/makes magic something that mortals could/can use. The ambivalent Raw Magic was/is deadly. Not much you can do with it if you're dead. It was/is the radiation suit to allow you to work with your radiation.
#12
zousha_omenohu
Sep 22, 2008 12:07:26 Yes, an expansion is coming for NWN2, but that takes place pre-Spellplague. If what I've heard is correct, when the Spellplague hits, both Neverwinter and Luskan are basically nuked because of the strong magic in the foundations of the cities and the fact that both had large arcane populations. If that's true, then it'd be pretty damn hard to make a NWN 3 without a Neverwinter. Which really has me miffed because Neverwinter was my favorite Realms location!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thomill Sep 20, 2008 11:18:05	Hello, I need some help in understanding the "source" of magic in 4E FR. I thought I had a relatively good handle on this, having read all of the prior edition rule books and about 90% of the novels. (Some novels I could no longer find in print or even used; for example, I still do not understand the initial band on epic spells, but that is for another post.) I have read the new 4E rulebooks only once so far, so I will admit to not fulling digesting them as of yet. I have always been fascinated by Mystra and her Chosen, and I had thought (incorrectly?) that her diety was the source of magic via her Weave. Excluding the Shadow Weave for now, I thought this was the basis for spells "working" in the realms. During the ToT, I further thought that the lack of the stability of the Weave contributing to spellcasting failures. Now that Mystra is no more (which, for what it is worth, really was distressing to learn), my question is this - what is the source of magic in the realms? Outside of spellplagued regions, magic is to work as intended (right?) - but was is the basis for this now that Mystra is gone? Thanks. T
#2 xmen510 Sep 20, 2008 13:34:20	Technically the Weave is still the source of Magic I believe (it is everywhere and infuses everything). There just isn't a God (Mystra) in control of it anymore. It is now open to anyone and everyone to use unconstrained. In this way, they can explain the change of "Rules" in the use of magic itself. After Mystras' death, it balanced out and calmed down so the average person could access it without her intervention. The Weave was always there, Mystra just brought balance to it. I could be wrong, but I believe that is it in a nutshell.
#3 Mr_Miscellany Sep 20, 2008 13:58:30	Raw, untamed magic (and not necessarily the Weave, which is now gone with Mystra's demise) still suffuses everything in the Realms. Sans Mystra, there is no longer a medium or mediator of interaction between mortal spellcasters and raw magic. Instead, spellcasters must access magic directly and often suffer the dire consequences for it. A pet theory of mine I'm working on is that this is why rituals are required (in the 4E sense of the term) to cast so many different kinds of magic in this current ere of the Realms, because magic is too raw and untamed a thing now to be manipulated with simple gestures, paltry spell components and a few precisely spoken words.
#4 thomill Sep 20, 2008 16:14:30	Many thanks. I hear that NWN-3 will have some storyline elements in this area - looking forward to this if so. Hopefully there will be some new FR novels around the time of the Spellplague as well. Thanks again. T
#5 karazhan Sep 20, 2008 21:04:32	According to all that I have read in the new novels and guides, I agree with Mr Miscellany: Raw magic is now tapped to work spells. This explains why magic is (1) weaker, (2) requires rituals for more powerful magics, and (3) implements are needed to channels and focus magic. I also think one interesting possibility introduced in the novel Mistshore is that the spellscarred are the last "weavers", custodians of the Art that was lost. While the guides portray spellscarred as being tainted, I think that they will be the ones to restore the Weave (if it ever is restored).
#6 lord_karsus Sep 21, 2008 20:35:32	I also think one interesting possibility introduced in the novel Mistshore is that the spellscarred are the last "weavers", custodians of the Art that was lost. While the guides portray spellscarred as being tainted, I think that they will be the ones to restore the Weave (if it ever is restored). -That sounds a lot like why I said the Sharn might be spreading Spellplague: It's the corrupted remnants of the Weave that, when encompassing everything, may return the Weave into being.
#7 zousha_omenohu Sep 22, 2008 8:45:09	Many thanks. I hear that NWN-3 will have some storyline elements in this area - looking forward to this if so. Hopefully there will be some new FR novels around the time of the Spellplague as well. Thanks again. T Neverwinter Nights 3? But there's no Neverwinter anymore. Both it and Luskan were basically nuked when the Spellplague hit, weren't they?
#8 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Sep 22, 2008 10:33:23	I know NWN2 is going to have another expansion, but I haven't heard that NWN3 is coming out.
#9 GreenKnight Sep 22, 2008 10:46:38	The Weave wasn't the source of magic in the Forgotten Realms. It was just an interface between the mortal spellcasters and the untamed forces of magic.
#10 GreenKnight Sep 22, 2008 10:53:06	Many thanks. I hear that NWN-3 will have some storyline elements in this area - looking forward to this if so. Hopefully there will be some new FR novels around the time of the Spellplague as well. Thanks again. T I haven't heard anything about a Neverwinter Nights 3, but I really hope it comes out. I loved NWN2, and would definitely like to play a computer game based on 4E rules. I just wish the combat was turn-based.
#11 lord_karsus Sep 22, 2008 12:05:33	The Weave wasn't the source of magic in the Forgotten Realms. It was just an interface between the mortal spellcasters and the untamed forces of magic. -The Weave was/is what made/makes magic something that mortals could/can use. The ambivalent Raw Magic was/is deadly. Not much you can do with it if you're dead. It was/is the radiation suit to allow you to work with your radiation.
#12 zousha_omenohu Sep 22, 2008 12:07:26	Yes, an expansion is coming for NWN2, but that takes place pre-Spellplague. If what I've heard is correct, when the Spellplague hits, both Neverwinter and Luskan are basically nuked because of the strong magic in the foundations of the cities and the fact that both had large arcane populations. If that's true, then it'd be pretty damn hard to make a NWN 3 without a Neverwinter. Which really has me miffed because Neverwinter was my favorite Realms location!