-The idea recently hit me: In the Yuir Deities article of Elves of Faerûn, I'd like to do a little guessing/postulating/guessing about who the lost members of the Yuir pantheon are/were.
-So, can anyone making any convincing arguments for preexisting deities?
-Here's rips's weigh-in on the matter:
Vanathor, the Golden Harpist, is Bahamut's advisor and bard, appearing as a gold dragon with a swirl of rainbow colors on his breast. The master of all things musical, Vanathor dwells with the Platinum Dragon in his palace. He is on good terms with all the gods of music, especially Corellon Larethian. He sometimes appears as a handsome half-elven bard. Some myths say he was actually a dead god from an ancient pantheon, given new life by Bahamut's magic.
--From "Spawn of Tiamat, Children of Bahamut" by Keith Francis Stohm in Dragon #260.
It seems possible that Vanathor was once a member of the Yuir pantheon.
Why? Have you lost yours?
:P
Seriously - thats a pretty darn good idea.
And I know you HATE 4e cosmology, but rolling certain Deities into others is sort of the way to go, these days. ;)
No... I haven't.
Why? Have you lost yours?
:P
Seriously - thats a pretty darn good idea.
:OMG!
-That was good, actually...
And I know you HATE 4e cosmology, but rolling certain Deities into others is sort of the way to go, these days. ;)
-Well, that's not "how I roll".
-Come on...Has everyone's creativity been sapped by the Spellplague?
-Pretty much. Don't know whats going to survive it.
18DELTA :P
-Pretty much.
-Snap out of the torpor and stupor, then! All of you!
so these Yuir deities were originally fey?
-No one knows. They were a pantheon worshiped by the indigenous Humans of the Yuirwood, and then later resurrected by the Elves (Wood and Star) when they came to the region.
-Come on...Has everyone's creativity been sapped by the Spellplague?
Maybe you'll have to specify what you are looking for. Not everybody knows of the 10 Totem(god)s of the ancient Yuir, of whom only 5 (including the suspected Simbul) are identified. Maybe you should add a direct link to the part of the Elves of Faerun?
Although they probably belong to the 'outer' Seldarin Circel of the Totemmenhirs, I think that Erevan Ilesere (as a fey trickster god) and Fenmarel (the Lone Wolf, who might be alone and bitter, because the rest of his original pantheon vanished?) would 've fit nicely with the 'inner circel' of the Yuir Deities.
And another speculation/hope connecting to the Yuir Deities: I hope the Simbul (of the Seven Sisters) will become the Simbul of the Yuir via the Epic Path of Demigod in 4ed FR. So Elminster also could have a new divine lover now tha Mystra is gone ;)
Oh and what other gods are we/you imagining were in this select group? I see the above and can't help but think I'm missing half of the story. My anctient Faerun history is spotty at best.
Although they probably belong to the 'outer' Seldarin Circel of the Totemmenhirs, I think that Erevan Ilesere (as a fey trickster god) and Fenmarel (the Lone Wolf, who might be alone and bitter, because the rest of his original pantheon vanished?) would 've fit nicely with the 'inner circel' of the Yuir Deities.
-You think that Erevan Illesere and/or Fenmarel Mestarine were members of the Yuir pantheon, and then grew powerful enough to become part of the Seldarine proper? Never thought of that, before. Why do you say that?
And another speculation/hope connecting to the Yuir Deities: I hope the Simbul (of the Seven Sisters) will become the Simbul of the Yuir via the Epic Path of Demigod in 4ed FR. So Elminster also could have a new divine lover now tha Mystra is gone ;)
-Well, the Simbul (Queen of Alglarond) took her name from the Simbul (Yuir Deity), so...
Do you have the time when they fell out of worship?
-They were already..."extinct" by the time the Wood/Star Elves headed east, into the Yuirwood. This would then precede the founding of Yuireshanyaar.
Oh and what other gods are we/you imagining were in this select group?
-That's what I'm asking you guys. ;)
One that was later absorbed like the rest. Then at some point in time Shevarash takes up the title, and becomes the second incarnation of the Black Archer!
Would explain that little glitch in the Realms of the Elves anthology. The only thing I'm not sure about is weather the timing would be correct - did the Yuir Totems get absorbed into other gods before Shevarash ascended? Everything would hinge on that.
How about an early Yuir version of the Black Archer? Perhaps a noble defender of woodlands?
-That's a VERY good idea.
One that was later absorbed like the rest. Then at some point in time Shevarash takes up the title, and becomes the second incarnation of the Black Archer,!
-Sure, Corellon Larethian was able to elevate the mortal Shevarash by merging him with the "ailing" Black Archer concept deity.
Would explain that little glitch in the Realms of the Elves anthology. The only thing I'm not sure about is weather the timing would be correct - did the Yuir Totems get absorbed into other gods before Shevarash ascended? Everything would hinge on that.
-The Yuir deities- that is, pre-merging- could have theoretically been very alive and active at this time, however. Remember, this was circa -24,000 +/-.
Also it's possible for Darahl Firecloak, long ago he was known as Tilvenar, and he also served Rillifane Ralathil
Araleth Setheranil is similar to Shevarash, and is known as Prince of Stars
Sarula Iliene the Nixie Queen?
Araleth Setheranil is similar to Shevarash, and is known as Prince of Stars
-Where can information about these two be found?
-The Yuir deities- that is, pre-merging- could have theoretically been very alive and active at this time, however. Remember, this was circa -24,000 +/-.
No, I knew that part works out - I was wondering if Shevarash ascended before the Yuir Totams were absorbed. I'm assuming it would work, because Shevarash is a fairly new deity, and I think the Yuir Totems were absorbed some time ago (but after the Mulan pantheons arrived on Toril.
In fact, I know you just lost your timeline, but if the two happened pretty close together (the Yuir vanishing and Shevarash ascending), that would be a good way to work-out which god absorbed the primordial 'Balck Archer' god.
How about those dragons that serve Corellon? Maybe I'm not remembering them right (were they even Dragons?), but I can see several Yuir Deities choosing to serve the Seldarine rather then being absorbed (that just doesn't sound very pleasant).
Herne is another good choice - primordial Hunter god slain early on by Malor (from E:IoE), but not neccessarily on Toril. I think on Toril he would have had to have died much later, after humans evolved and became semi-civilized, because there are still myths about him and there is a forest named after him in the Utter East (Canon, form a novel - its the north-western corner of the Jungle).
I was planning on connecting him to the proto-Cortae peoples that first evolved across the central portion of Faerûn in an article, some of which became the Talfir-Cortae, Issa-Cortae, and Datha-Cortae (early Dathites, later to be known as Chondathans). I was going to use several Celtic Gods (Irish, Briton, and Gaulish) for that, and was planning on explaining away Silvanus and Oghma much the same way (both of whom managed to survive into later pantheons).
I think if I make the Yuir Totems the last vestiges of the Cortae Pantheon (who already have connections to the Fey), it would allow everything to come full-circle with the Seldarine.
Whatever you come up with LK, I'll apply to my proto-pantheon - the EARLIEST one known for humans in the Realms.
Dragon 236, 251
-Thank you. I'm pretty sure I have both.
;)
No, I knew that part works out - I was wondering if Shevarash ascended before the Yuir Totams were absorbed. I'm assuming it would work, because Shevarash is a fairly new deity, and I think the Yuir Totems were absorbed some time ago (but after the Mulan pantheons arrived on Toril.
-Ah. Well, it's not like it all happened at once. It was a gradual fading, not something all at once.
In fact, I know you just lost your timeline, but if the two happened pretty close together (the Yuir vanishing and Shevarash ascending), that would be a good way to work-out which god absorbed the primordial 'Balck Archer' god.
-No, the two probably took place long after each other. If you figure the merging began around when the Wood/Star Elves arrived, and Yuireshanyaar was founded, this was around -10,000 DR. Shevarash became a deity long after that. The doesn't necessarily mean that the connections cannot be there. In theory, there could have been six clear totems until recently. Demihuman Deities reflects around 1369 DR, or something like that. So, at that point, the 6th totem could have been clear.
How about those dragons that serve Corellon? Maybe I'm not remembering them right (were they even Dragons?), but I can see several Yuir Deities choosing to serve the Seldarine rather then being absorbed (that just doesn't sound very pleasant).
-Dragons that serve Corellon Larethian...? "Quicksilver"? He's already an aspect of a Draconic deity. Do you mean his two Solar servators?
Herne is another good choice - primordial Hunter god slain early on by Malor (from E:IoE), but not neccessarily on Toril. I think on Toril he would have had to have died much later, after humans evolved and became semi-civilized, because there are still myths about him and there is a forest named after him in the Utter East (Canon, form a novel - its the north-western corner of the Jungle).
-Herne the Hunter...Perhaps this was where the "divinity" that we can merge with Shevarash came from. Perhaps Malar slew Herne on some other Crystal Sphere, but his(?) aspect in Realmspace was able to gain "life" of it's own, separating itself as it sometimes happens. Being very weak, the entity put itself into stasis, somewhat like Utiliu (sp?), and was eventually merged with Shevarash. The 'hunter' aspect is present in both.
The Mulan aspects of the Egyptian Gods are no longer connected to their Pharoanic counterparts, so their is a precedent for individual aspects to be independent form one world to the next.
One of Malar's Avatars probably just killed one of Herne's, is all, I didn't think Malar was multispheric the way Herne was, but E:IoE says otherwise.
And Yes, it is probably the two Solars I'm thinking of - its been awhile since I went throught that book (wasn't it in the Evermeet source?)
One of Malar's Avatars probably just killed one of Herne's, is all, I didn't think Malar was multispheric the way Herne was, but E:IoE says otherwise.
-That works very nicely, then.
And Yes, it is probably the two Solars I'm thinking of - its been awhile since I went throught that book (wasn't it in the Evermeet source?)
-Yes. That and in Elves of Faerûn.
Weapons Of Legacy actually gives some attention to Shevarash, in the Bow Of The Black Archer, and says that the name "Black Archer" was made up by the drow themselves. (Strangely, Elikarashae sounds similar to Kiralasha the drow mentioned in the Legacy tale, but only anagrammatically.)
I feel that Leraje, the Green Herald, a vestige from the Tome Of Magic should have some presence in FR. After all, there's an unexplained grudge with Amon (Amaunator).
Herne's Wood is mentioned only in the Blood & Magic PC game. That bit is technically not canon. (Hmm, the great thing about FR fandom I find is that people are happy to accept non-canon info and use whatever they can.)
*
Herne's Wood is mentioned only in the Blood & Magic PC game. That bit is technically not canon. (Hmm, the great thing about FR fandom I find is that people are happy to accept non-canon info and use whatever they can.)
Dagnabbit!
This is a problem I had recently over at CK too - sometimes I read so much fan-lore that I forget what is 'real' and what is not.
I had to double-check the one official map we have for the Ue -
And you are quite correct - only the Mead Hall of the Northmen is mentioned there.
Does anyone know the details of THAT locale? If it's on the map, I would assume someone in the novel had to have travelled there, and perhaps "Herne's Woods" was mentioned in passing?
Anyhow, from Spellbound -
Elikarashae. A mighty elven warrior who bore three great weapons: the spear Shama, which could speak to elven warriors of pure heart and noble mind; the sling Ukava, that never missed; and the club Maelat, which could only be wielded in defense of the Yuir. Elikarashae fought many of the Yuir's enemies and was finally lifted up to Arvandor and made a god.
Sounds like a pretty good candidate for an ancient 'Hunter Deity', although he wasn't known for his use of a bow, as Shevarash is. Maybe Shevarash absorbed two - one (the Black Archer) to get the divine spark to ascend in the first place, and then Elikarashae later on, when the final six Yuir deities degan to fade (allowing Shevarash to make a brief jump to lesser god status, which he then lost over time).
I still like Herne as a Primordial 'Hunter God' -
That's from the 1e DD source, and it's a portrayal of the Wild Huntsnman - a tradition that is still carried out on the island of Nimbral, I might add. ;)
Then again, you could always just say that Elikarashae is an alias of Herne amongst the Elves and Yuir.
Aside: I always assumed the difference between Malar and Herne was thus - Herne is a human/demihuman with animalistic qualities, whereas Malar is a beast with anthropomorphic qualities - very similar, yet opposites in a way.
Shevarash absorbed Elikarashae of the Yuir pantheon. This was explained in Demihuman Deities, which puts the date of his ascension at circa -4070 DR, and the merger after that.
-The Dark Court Slaughter took place in -4400, and Shevarash died in -4070.
I feel that Leraje, the Green Herald, a vestige from the Tome Of Magic should have some presence in FR. After all, there's an unexplained grudge with Amon (Amaunator).
-Can you give me some information about this guy...girl...?
Herne's Wood is mentioned only in the Blood & Magic PC game. That bit is technically not canon. (Hmm, the great thing about FR fandom I find is that people are happy to accept non-canon info and use whatever they can.)
-Hmm...That's good. That links Herne with woods, which would make it (I think) a bit more realistic for Herne to have been a member of the Yuir Pantheon, which was based out of woods. And, if it's in the east, that would place it somewhere in the vicinity of the Yuir.
Not wanting to get involved into your treehuggers mumbo-jumbo thing*, but why not contacting the designers of the Realms and the Spellbound box and ask what they think (over at Candlekeep)?
*
-What they think of what? The lost totems? I already asked Mr. Boyd who the other totems were, a long time ago, and he replied that they never developed the others.
Maybe Shevarash absorbed two - one (the Black Archer) to get the divine spark to ascend in the first place, and then Elikarashae later on, when the final six Yuir deities degan to fade (allowing Shevarash to make a brief jump to lesser god status, which he then lost over time).
-Yes, this is what I am envisioning. Upon his apotheosis, Shevarash merged with the lingering essence of Herne*, and became a deity. Later on, he merged with Elikarashae. Perhaps Elikarashae chose to seek Shevarash out because of the lingering essence of Herne within him, being as that Herne and Elikarashae would have been pantheon mates.
*This part is subject to change, maybe.
-Can you give me some information about this guy...girl...?
Show
Laraje, the Green Herald
Once a favored servant of the primary deity of the elves, Leraje allowed her pride to become her downfall. Leraje gives her summoners the ability to bring a bow to hand at will, to fire it with accuracy, and to damage a foe's sense of self with it. In addltion, she gives her hosts keen vision in darkness and skill at hiding.
Legend: Tales of Laraje's prowess with a bow exist to this day, although her feats are now ascribed to deities and other great heroes, and most elves think her legend is heresy. Pact magic treatises maintain that Corellon Larethian called upon Leraje to be his first herald among mortals. She taught the elves how to make and use bows, though none could ever come close to matching her prowess. Legend holds that she killed Thessala, goddess of hydras, by shooting a single arrow through all one thousand of her heads, thereby causing her children, the hydras, to be dull and crude throughout eternity.
One day, Leraje helped Corellon save Lolth, who had not yet fallen from grace, from an ambush set by Gruumsh. Lolth praised Leraje for her skills, claiming thar not even Corellon could Fire an arrow as fast or as accurately as his herald. Leraje beamed under the compliment, and a bemused Corellon challenged her to an archery duel to settle the matter. When Leraje agreed, Corellon declared their target: her heart.
Corellon expected his Servant to realize the error of her pride and yield the contest, but Leraje instead brought up her bow, aimed an arrow at Corellon, and pulled back the string. Surprised, he raised his own bow and fixed at her. Leraje released her bowstring at that same moment, aiming not at the god but at the arrow that sped toward her heart. Leraje's arrow met thar ofher deity in midair and ricocheted back, piercing her heart before Corellon's arrowhead even touched her chest. As punishment for wasting her life for the sake of her stubborn pride, Corellon Larerthian cast leraje's soul from heaven and earth.
Once a favored servant of the primary deity of the elves, Leraje allowed her pride to become her downfall. Leraje gives her summoners the ability to bring a bow to hand at will, to fire it with accuracy, and to damage a foe's sense of self with it. In addltion, she gives her hosts keen vision in darkness and skill at hiding.
Legend: Tales of Laraje's prowess with a bow exist to this day, although her feats are now ascribed to deities and other great heroes, and most elves think her legend is heresy. Pact magic treatises maintain that Corellon Larethian called upon Leraje to be his first herald among mortals. She taught the elves how to make and use bows, though none could ever come close to matching her prowess. Legend holds that she killed Thessala, goddess of hydras, by shooting a single arrow through all one thousand of her heads, thereby causing her children, the hydras, to be dull and crude throughout eternity.
One day, Leraje helped Corellon save Lolth, who had not yet fallen from grace, from an ambush set by Gruumsh. Lolth praised Leraje for her skills, claiming thar not even Corellon could Fire an arrow as fast or as accurately as his herald. Leraje beamed under the compliment, and a bemused Corellon challenged her to an archery duel to settle the matter. When Leraje agreed, Corellon declared their target: her heart.
Corellon expected his Servant to realize the error of her pride and yield the contest, but Leraje instead brought up her bow, aimed an arrow at Corellon, and pulled back the string. Surprised, he raised his own bow and fixed at her. Leraje released her bowstring at that same moment, aiming not at the god but at the arrow that sped toward her heart. Leraje's arrow met thar ofher deity in midair and ricocheted back, piercing her heart before Corellon's arrowhead even touched her chest. As punishment for wasting her life for the sake of her stubborn pride, Corellon Larerthian cast leraje's soul from heaven and earth.
Another candidate I would like to offer up is Khalreshaar. Mielikki is a Finnish interloper deity and strongly associated with the woods of the north. Yet she has aspects as far east as Rasheman under the name Khelliara. Mielikki is also a deity that has only in recent centuries risen to prominence and nearly everywhere there are variances on her faith. What I am proposing is the possibility that as the various human pantheons have begun to intermingle into a confusing meta-pantheon, rather than fall into conflict as usually happens the various deities of specific forests began to merge in hopes of gaining prominence and pushing back the tide of deforestation. Their strongest aspect became the main guise but confusion still abounds.
Khalreshaar could have been the deity of the Yiurwood itself, a goddess of druidic bent that focussed on homeland protection and living in balance with the forests. Her druid priestesses defending the Yiur alongside their Elvish companions could have been responsible for the myth of a human druid being risen to the Seldarine, their actions directly forming a basis for mutual worship especially among half-elven children. Through the millenia she adapted to the ways of the Seldarine and favored the half-elves who were her primary worshippers. She may have been a somewhat active aspect of Rillifane during much of this time. Not as absorbed as the others but still fully under sway. When the time came for the various deities of the woods to merge she also joined in the cause with Rillifane's blessing. This brought an elvish experience to Mielikki and helped strengthen alliances between the Seldarine and like minded human powers. This could also have strengthened the half-elvish deity myths that recently appeared in force, being a gift of an Elvish deity aspect to an otherwise human power.
ShowLaraje, the Green Herald
Once a favored servant of the primary deity of the elves, Leraje allowed her pride to become her downfall. Leraje gives her summoners the ability to bring a bow to hand at will, to fire it with accuracy, and to damage a foe's sense of self with it. In addltion, she gives her hosts keen vision in darkness and skill at hiding.
Legend: Tales of Laraje's prowess with a bow exist to this day, although her feats are now ascribed to deities and other great heroes, and most elves think her legend is heresy. Pact magic treatises maintain that Corellon Larethian called upon Leraje to be his first herald among mortals. She taught the elves how to make and use bows, though none could ever come close to matching her prowess. Legend holds that she killed Thessala, goddess of hydras, by shooting a single arrow through all one thousand of her heads, thereby causing her children, the hydras, to be dull and crude throughout eternity.
One day, Leraje helped Corellon save Lolth, who had not yet fallen from grace, from an ambush set by Gruumsh. Lolth praised Leraje for her skills, claiming thar not even Corellon could Fire an arrow as fast or as accurately as his herald. Leraje beamed under the compliment, and a bemused Corellon challenged her to an archery duel to settle the matter. When Leraje agreed, Corellon declared their target: her heart.
Corellon expected his Servant to realize the error of her pride and yield the contest, but Leraje instead brought up her bow, aimed an arrow at Corellon, and pulled back the string. Surprised, he raised his own bow and fixed at her. Leraje released her bowstring at that same moment, aiming not at the god but at the arrow that sped toward her heart. Leraje's arrow met thar ofher deity in midair and ricocheted back, piercing her heart before Corellon's arrowhead even touched her chest. As punishment for wasting her life for the sake of her stubborn pride, Corellon Larerthian cast leraje's soul from heaven and earth.
He's really perfect for a proto-human/early Elven deity.
Another candidate I would like to offer up is Khalreshaar. Mielikki is a Finnish interloper deity and strongly associated with the woods of the north. Yet she has aspects as far east as Rasheman under the name Khelliara.
Nice catch - I've associated Mielikki with the Goddess Ki (Sumerian/Unther), and have placed an aspect of her in our Utter East Campaign thread (Using her Indian Name, Kivati).
I've also surmised that the Finnish Gods in the Realms are remnants of the Kalmyk Pantheon, from the far north of the Eastern Hordelands, and the forebears of the Raumathari people. That would give our Mielikki/Ki/Kivati/Khelliara an origin in the north-east, fairly close to the Yuir forest and the main region for the Kalmyk decendents (Raumathari).
NP - Consider the Warhammer version of Herne, called Orion (Lord/Demigod of the Wood Elves) -
-I have no intention on incorporating extra-"continuitical" entities.
Some of those other vestiges are pretty cool - there is a Sea-god one as well (though not a good fit unto itself), but ther IS a mention (in Spellbound) of a 'lost sea God' off the coast of Aglarond that the Half-Elves still pay lip-service to - I'll have to find that...
Edit: - Eligor seems like a decent fit - a half-Elven Dragonrider/slayer.
That was just a reference to another Herne clone, in Elf guise. I wasn't intending for you to use him thusly.
-Whaddya trying to do? Confuse me? :P
Some of those other vestiges are pretty cool - there is a Sea-god one as well (though not a good fit unto itself), but ther IS a mention (in Spellbound) of 'lost sea God' off the coast of Aglarond that the Half-Elves still pay lip-service to - I'll have to find that...
-I really don't see a water deity as part of the ancient Yuir Pantheon. Primitive Humans, I don't really see as having much use for water transport and such. Water could be in the dominion of the nature deity of the Yuir Pantheon.
-You find the name of that supposed deity, MT?
Focalor:
Focalor has power over storms and seas. He gives those who bind him the power to drown souls in sadness and sink ships in an ocean of tears.
If that doesn't sound like a bunch of melancholy, emo Elves, I don't know what does. :D
Thats from Tome of Magic though - the one from Spellbound wasn't named, IIRC - I'll check now.
-Tears even fits in...Sorrow, sadness, danger, invasion, woe, war.
"Given the ancient and mystic nature of much of Aglarond's territory, it is not surprising that several rare, enchanted species such as selkies, sirines, and marid have also been encountered. The half-elves of Aglarond believe that a great sea-god inhabits the sea nearby, keeping watch over a terrible sea-giant who was imprisoned here centuries ago. Certainly the diversity and rare beauty of Aglarond's coast is unusual, but whether this is due to divine means or not is a matter of individual belief."
Thats it - It was in a section detailing Aglarond's seas and the profusion of 'fey' races within it.
You could easily fit that 'core' concept of Focalor to this 'lost god' - especially since there are several FR vestiges listed in the ToM (like Karsus himself).
One idea for the sea giant being imprisoned is the remnants of the Elven High Magic that destroyed Jhaamdath. Elven High Magic tends to have consequences. A tidal wave of sufficient power to reform the Jhaamdath Bay would have consequences all along the Inland Seas. This happened in -255, which is a few centuries past the time most Elven High Magi of Yuireshanyaar had retreated to Sildeyuir. This lost sea god could have stepped in and prevented devastating disaster to the Yuirwood, imprisoning the magic beneath the sea in the form of a terrible giant. All of his power is wrapped up in containing this magic and his faith waned even further from lack of attention. Now only a vestigial interaction remains beyond this prison. A side effect of keeping the magic contained is a calming effect on the coast. This both beautifies the coastal land and nearby seas as well as attracting fey and sylvan creatures of the sea. The Asathalfinare regularly visit and keep company, though they cannot free him from his self imposed duty.
Plus that sort of self burdening duty sounds like an emo elf mentality.
I like the idea that the energy the Elves unleashed against Jhaamdath was some sort of 'Primal Power' - perhaps a Titan? - that had to be contained after the initial destruction. That is SO cool, and bridges this region to other parts of Torillian lore.
Will there be a larger marker warning people about the official and semi-official and non-official content in this project?
I don't know about Karsus' final version, but I color-coded the non-canon material in my Dark Elven Realms piece.
Yeah, yeah... I know, I know... it's coming... :embarrass
Will there be a larger marker warning people about the official and semi-official and non-official content in this project?
-No.
I like the idea that the energy the Elves unleashed against Jhaamdath was some sort of 'Primal Power' - perhaps a Titan? - that had to be contained after the initial destruction. That is SO cool, and bridges this region to other parts of Torillian lore.
-The thing that doesn't work about that is that the Yuir Deities aren't originally and necessarily Elven in nature. The Yuir Deities would predate the casting of the High Magic against Jhaamdath.
It would be a long time to have his essence linger.
Is it just me, or did the story of Leraje not put Corellon in a very good light? To me he came across as overly prideful: insisting on an impossible target, then punishing Leraje for successfully hitting it first.
It would be a long time to have his essence linger.
-Utiliu is still slumbering, and the Psionic deity of Jhaamdath whose name I can't remember but it begins with an 'A' is still around as well.
Is it just me, or did the story of Leraje not put Corellon in a very good light? To me he came across as overly prideful: insisting on an impossible target, then punishing Leraje for successfully hitting it first.
-Elves are prideful creatures.
-The thing that doesn't work about that is that the Yuir Deities aren't originally and necessarily Elven in nature. The Yuir Deities would predate the casting of the High Magic against Jhaamdath.
Yes, but...
MT means that a summoned Titan could be the sea giant that the lost sea god keeps imprisoned.
Exactly! That would fit perfectly with the bit from Aglarond - combined that with the stuff about Focalor.
He was an ancient (Yuir) Sea God, but after the Elves unleashed that devastation (the Primordial, Elemental Titan), he got stuck babysitting it, after the Yuir deities and Seldarine (and perhaps a few others) managed to imprison him.
At one point he would have had the help of his fellow Yuir, but with them gone, he has to spend 100% of his time (and energy) gaurding the Titan.
Since that happend (the sinking of Jhaamdath), another god could have absorbed his essence, and either freed the Titan, or absorbed it too. The perfect candidate would be Umberlee.
In fact, Umberlee could BE Focalor, after he decided to absord the (female?) Titan, and was changed by the overwhelming energies of the Primordial monster (much like Selvatarm was changed when he absorbed that Spidery Arch-fiend).
In retrospect, perhaps Ulutiu would make a better choice? He is already a canon 'minor Sea-God', so he could very well be the 'long-lost' one from the Aglarondan coast. He could have been the Titan's gaurdian before his run-in with Annam (and subsequent 'Freeze'). Then we could just say that the Primordial was really Umberlee all along.
Is there any reference to Umberlee pre-dating the sinking of Jhaamdath?
Evermeet: Herne: slain by Malar immediately prior to the assault on Arvandor by Lolth's first "Anti-Seldarine"
It would be a long time to have his essence linger.
If you read carefully, they never say which worlds Lolth is going around to and finding allies - the one where she found Malar (and Herne) isn't neccessarily Toril, and probably wasn't - she only finds out about Toril later, I think, AFTER the Elves escape the sinking of Tintageer.
Is it just me, or did the story of Leraje not put Corellon in a very good light? To me he came across as overly prideful: insisting on an impossible target, then punishing Leraje for successfully hitting it first.
I always thought he was an obnoxious, stuck-up pr... jerk. ;)
That story just confirms it. :P
-- George Krashos
Why are titans extinct in the Realms?
-- George Krashos
-Extinct, as in the Titans are gone.
the Planescape setting differentiated between the mortal titans (just bigger giants) and the Greater Titans living in the outer planes, which are the same beings as the Primordials in 4e.
They came before the gods, and are much more powerful then them, but there are fewer of them, so the gods were able to usurp their power (and imprison quite a few of them, I think in Hell). Perhaps Annam himself was one of those Greater Titans originally, that has been allowed to retain his freedom, for whatever reason.
One of THOSE is what I was saying LK should use for the back-story in Aglarond, not the silly 'giant men' that are D&D titans (which have since been retconned into 'Elementl Titans').
The titans that used to dwell in Ostoria were the lesser variety. If any Greater Titans ever existed on Toril (which none do in canon), it would have probably been Annam himself, and perhaps even Othea.
Just because we have NO canon Greater Titans recorded in FR history doesn't mean there weren't any (or that we couldn't stick one in some where). If people have a problem with the Greek name 'Titan', then just call it a Primordial (4e temrinology), or even an 'Elder God' or 'Old One'. Mechanically it would be a Greater Titan, but we needn't use the non-FR name for them.
What else would you call a giant that requires a god to gaurd him? Certainly not a lesser titan or any of the other giant races. And that excerpt I quoted earlier IS canon, so that means something powerful enough to hold a god's attention is under the sea, and the myth did call 'it' a giant, so..... ;)
There is a degree of seperation from 'making stuff up', and extrapolating lore from canon facts. :P
How far back does lore about her go?
We have Ulutiu mentioned earlier then her, and there is also a bizarre mention of Poseidon in early Bloodstone Lands material (before it became part of FR).
If some other god used to be the Sea God for Faerûn, then perhaps Umberlee was this 'primal evil' that escaped into the world.
18DELTA ;)
-What if it is 'The Abolethic Sovergnity'(sp) from Bruce Cordells novel 'Stardeep'?
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-Nope. Based on the circumstantial evidence present, I speculate that the Yuir deities are the ones that did the banishing of them, in Stardeep.
Don't forget that Labelas Enoreth absorbed Kronus. AKA Chronos, but the two were separate entities in our world, merged due to their similar names, and Karonis, likely a mispronunciation. Kronus/Chronos was of course worshipped in Orva, Cormyr.
And Set goes by the alias Typhon in Thay and Unther (Typhon being a half-Titan, I think). This merger also occurred in our world, but there's no reason why it couldn't have also happened in FR. Actually, it would have had to have happened in FR as well, to explain why the name carried over.
And Prometheus appears in the Raurin desert, in the Desert Of Desolation. But then, the whole place seems to have once been a planar crossroads with a great many stray gods moving into the Imaskari void.
Personally, I think of these and similar entities as the lost gods of the Turami people, being precursors to the modern Chessentans (just as the Titans were precursors to the Greek gods). It's entirely possible that some of them migrated north into Aglarond when fleeing the Untherites.
And there's that Melith chap in Chessenta, standing in for Lathander's Creativity portfolio in Chessenta. I had some ideas on what Melith could be, but there lost by the boards.
Tome Of Magic's Vestiges are core, so there's no need to slot many of them in FR. But some seem to have a presence in FR: Amon (Amaunator) and Karsus, while Amon has an unknown dispute with Karsus (over Netheril, I guess), Chuboclops (a peer with Dendar the Night Serpent, and Fenris/Kezef The Chaos Hound), Leraje (Elven goddess) and Eurynome (a Titan). So the rest port in as well.
Eurynome is said to be a Titan in ToM, and presumably a half-Titan in the Greek myths. She's an ocean goddess and former mother/nature goddess in RW, and a rather decayed mother/nature vestige in ToM.
But in this area, you have to be careful of which ancient deities are Yuir, Jhaamdathan, Turami, Untheric or Mulhorandi, and whatever else is floating around.
Wouldn't it be a kick in the head if Umberlee was the same being as Set?
Just sayin'... ;)
The Typhon connection is weak, at best.
I started a thread over at CK to ask about Umberlee's origins, and was pleasantly surprised to find she is an unknown quantity, so we can call her whatever we like before the 'modern' age (post-Netheril).
-Yes, didn't we all just say that she has no specific "start" date? Geeze, you don't believe us or something?
RIGHT, buuuuut...
the Planescape setting differentiated between the mortal titans (just bigger giants) and the Greater Titans living in the outer planes, which are the same beings as the Primordials in 4e.
They came before the gods, and are much more powerful then them, but there are fewer of them, so the gods were able to usurp their power (and imprison quite a few of them, I think in Hell). Perhaps Annam himself was one of those Greater Titans originally, that has been allowed to retain his freedom, for whatever reason.
One of THOSE is what I was saying LK should use for the back-story in Aglarond, not the silly 'giant men' that are D&D titans (which have since been retconned into 'Elementl Titans').
I don't use titans, Olympus or Carceri in my cosmology, it's all too confusing. Annam doesn't seem nothing like them, only in size
there are greek titans and there are beings of titanic size, such as draedens, they're like greater gods in power
there are also ruined titanic cities in Mithardir, the Sleeping Ones in Ice, or the throat slit 200 ft. rotting titanic corpses ...
anyway I think that Ulutiu is a better choice than Umberlee, she is more western
anyway I think that Ulutiu is a better choice than Umberlee, she is more western
-Ulutiu is more northern than eastern, though. Same boat, more or less. At least Umberlee is more widely known.
Plus, he just sounds so cool (and elvish), and his non-identity in FR makes him perfect for use as a 'lost god'.
I was only suggestiong Umberlee as the "terrible Sea Giant" mentioned in that small blurb, but we could just as easily use a Primordial Kraken (which others have speculated that Umberlee is, giving certain 'hints' in canon). I rather see her as the 'evil thing that got out' then the theoretical Sea God of Aglarond.
-I know that Umberlee, some say, was originally a Kraken, an octopus, or an Illithid, or some other kind of tentacled creature from the sea. Perhaps the avatar of Umberlee that was a Kraken is the entity being contained. Without it, Umberlee lost some power, and needed to create a new avatar, which is the more common Humanoid form. That would also demonstrate why she "tried so hard"- though, in reality, nothing is said on this matter- or gaining the services of Slalawhateveritsnamewas that is her current Chosen.
-Thoughts?
-I was intending on sticking with Focalor, Prince of Tears, but I'd rather have a name to use with the sea entity that he's holding back.
-I know that Umberlee, some say, was originally a Kraken, an octopus, or an Illithid, or some other kind of tentacled creature from the sea. Perhaps the avatar of Umberlee that was a Kraken is the entity being contained. Without it, Umberlee lost some power, and needed to create a new avatar, which is the more common Humanoid form. That would also demonstrate why she "tried so hard"- though, in reality, nothing is said on this matter- or gaining the services of Slalawhateveritsnamewas that is her current Chosen.
-Thoughts?
-
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FOCALOR (Duke of Hell)
Focalor is seneschal (an agent, or bailiff) to Mammon, and wields much of the real power in Minauros, for his master somewhat neglectful of security and diplomacy. The thin, often silent Focalor is careful in word and deed, and a master strategist. He is respectful, too, and takes no risks with the safety of Glasya (Mammon'’s consort) and that of the palace itself. Most of the other archdevils (and the outcast Nergal) believe that Mammon would be easy prey were it not for the strength of his few dukes, and for the wise care of Focalor. Focalor’s loyalty seems unshakeable; most of the archdevils have in the past tested it, and they continue to do so.
Description: Focalor appears human —a thin, bearded, and middle-aged statesman or sage with power and heavy concerns — until he unfurls his feathered wings from his flowing robes or reveals his brown cloven hooves. Focalor wears an iron gauntlet on his right hand, as his badge of office, and with this gauntlet he can strike for 1-6 damage. He is normally armed with a staff, but will seize any weapons in battle. His skin is a palepink-green, and if his armpits and flanks are revealed, tiny scales will be seen.
When summoned to the Prime Material Plane, Focalor will seize any chance to swim (for this he enjoys), and revels in the use of two powers of his that are ineffective in the hells: fish command (as in the trident of fish command, DMG p. 155; all fish save at +1), and call storms ...
but it can be merged
Show
Focalor has power over storms and seas. He gives those who bind him the power to drown souls in sadness and sink ships in an ocean of tears.
legend: Accounts of Focalor's origins vary Widely. Some claim he was once a demon, and others say he was an angel - likely a planetar.
The constantly crying spirit has never uttered a coherent word, so binder scholars must look elsewhere to solve the mystery of how he came to be a vestige. All agree, however, that Focalor was an immortal creature that died of grief, and his immense anguish kept him from being absorbed into his home plane. The cause of his sadness, however, is as unclear as his origin.
legend: Accounts of Focalor's origins vary Widely. Some claim he was once a demon, and others say he was an angel - likely a planetar.
The constantly crying spirit has never uttered a coherent word, so binder scholars must look elsewhere to solve the mystery of how he came to be a vestige. All agree, however, that Focalor was an immortal creature that died of grief, and his immense anguish kept him from being absorbed into his home plane. The cause of his sadness, however, is as unclear as his origin.
(and the outcast Nergal)
And there's Unther's lost deity of the underworld.
he could have a similar story like Tiamat's
in my campaign Nergal and Ereshkigal, as ancient baatorians (I use Sumerian names for them, to accentuate their ancientness) have taken back the control of the first layer from Bael and Zariel
or vice versa, haven't really thought about creating more detailed mythological origin of spellweavers or thri-kreen
Nergal, after entering Realmspace (and he did - that parts canon), decided to add to his power by absorbing an ancient primordial 'death god' (Batrachi? Abeiration?), who instead 'consumed' him. I assume that god's name began with a 'J' (something un-pronouncable), and it was able to 'swap' power (DR) with him. That allowed the ancient deity (the new and improved Jergal) to rise in power once again, while the original Nergal (reduced in power to that of a demi-god) died during the Orcgate wars.
However, since the aspects of the Mulan Gods on Toril were 'mortal' at that time, and not 'true' gods, Nergal's spirit instead went to Hell (literally), where it amused Asmodeus to make him one of his lieutenants and allow him to reatin his demi-god prowess (now as an Arch-fiend).
A little convoluted, but I've patched the three together somewhat. The Jergal of the Realms is the power of Nergal combined with the persona of the original primordial death god (who always manges to figure out how to avoid his own demise).
except Nergal as an archdevil is much older, he is mentioned among important devils back when Satan was the ruler of Baator, Beelzebub (Baalzebul/Triel) asked for his support when he challenged Satan
thats the best I got... something similar happened to Illyana Rasputin (Magik, Colossus' sister), where she got trapped in Limbo (more like Hell, though) for years, but only a few seconds passed on earth.
Or you could just say that the original Nergal left Earth two thousand years ago with the rest of the Untheric pantheon, and left behind a single Avatar, who became demoted in status and eventually died a mortal death, winding up under Asmodeus' thumb (much the way Thor wound up under Mephisto's power, also from Marvel Comics).
That way, all of it occurred long before the events (Orcgate War) on Toril, and the Torillian aspect of Nergal would have no idea about what happened to his original essence. He would have found out after the ToT (when the Mulan gods were re-merged with their Outer-planar aspects), but he never lived long enough to find out.
It would make a helluva piece of historic fan-fic for some Mulhorandi Demonologist to summon Fiend Nergal for help against the Untherites, and the God Nergal winds up confronting his own past.
Wasn't Zandilar the Dancer also one of the ancient Yuir totems? If I recall correctly, Zandilar was later absorbed by Bast(et) during her "Westernization" into Sharess.
-Yes. She's not a lost Yuir deity, whereas the others are.
-I need to write an article on the Yuirwood, now...
He almost looks like a Dopplganger in its natural state, or even a Bodak.
-Looks like I'll do all of the work here...Again. Copying and pasting right now. Don't expect to see anything for a little bit, though.
The Orcs of the High Forest do not woship the Orc Pantheon - they revere the Lord of the Hunt.
The source (The Savage Frontier) even goes so far as to say to use the Celtic write-up in Legends and Lore!
Also, you got those weird 'Wild Hunts' that fly through the skies coming out of Nimbral (or was it Lantan? I always get those confused).
Just let me send that 'other thing' off to you first, of course. ;)
Bel
Herne is Celtic, and the source I mentioned above pointed to the Celtic source for the FR version.
The early Talfir-Cortae peoples most likely venerated the Celtic Pantheon, and some of that can still be seen in the Realms today.
Saying that Herne is a child of the Earthmother works, though, very well in fact...
Perhaps all the Yuir deities were the Childen of the Earthmother and the First Sun? They might have been FR's own pantheon, and most of the others are just interlopers.
Perhaps all the Yuir deities were the Childen of the Earthmother and the First Sun? They might have been FR's own pantheon, and most of the others are just interlopers.
-They might very well be one of the earliest pantheons. Remember, when the Elves cam to the Yuir circa -10,000 (I think it was a little after that, but...), the Yuir deities were already in partial "hibernation", having had the indigenous people leave.
-Perhaps another clue as to this pantheon can be found in where these Humans might have migrated to. MT, sounds like something you might be in the know of. Any Human migrations around this time, from the people in the area? They might have carried on these deities with them to their new homes, where they might have "morphed" and grown.
The did quite a bit of shuffling around, especially once the Mulan were freed of the Imaskar yoke. I have them connected to Thazalhar as a survivor-state of the Imaskari collapse, but thats 100% homebrew (to help rectify a couple of odd mentions of Thazalhar being an independent political entity at some point).
Having a dark-skinned race associated with the earliest known humans would make sense scientifically, but this is FR we're talking about, and races don't always evolve along the normal liness.
The only other humans that had civilizations that far back were the Talfir (too far away) and the race that built the Citadel of the Raven (also too far).
I have a proto-race, but its hypothetical, called the Cortae, and they would have been one massive ethnic group living in the central portions of the continent when the Tear of Selune fell and created the SoFS. After that cataclysm, the group broke up into various tribes and ,migrated, which would include the Talfir-Cortae (north), the Issa-Cortae (east), the Datha-Cortae (south), and the Shae-Cortae (Islands).
I have them as FR's version of Celts, and the Yuir could have been another off-shoot of that group. I'm not sure where they would have went, though - the Tuigan were migrating into the Taan around that time, so it is unlikely they went east (unless they became the early Raumathari). Geographically (around the Lake of Mists), that would fit, but culturally I'm just not seeing it. The Raumathari are closer to the Finno-Rus of our world.
The did quite a bit of shuffling around, especially once the Mulan were freed of the Imaskar yoke. I have them connected to Thazalhar as a survivor-state of the Imaskari collapse, but thats 100% homebrew (to help rectify a couple of odd mentions of Thazalhar being an independent political entity at some point).
-That'd be too late, anyway.
-Damn, that's a shame. That would have been an interesting way, to see what other deities might have been the other Yuir Totems based on the deities in the offshoot of these people's pantheon.
there was a mention of ancient human tribes inhabitating Aglarond and Thay but I can't recall their names
-If so, these might be the people we are "looking for".
-Is there an ancient Aglarondan pantheon?
I don't remember whether these tribes were canon or homebrew, from some web timeline I think
have you ever heard of some native tribes that were there before Nars, Rashemaar or Raumathari?
Well.. I could... but it would be a while before we got any response.
When I mentioned the Turami, I was thinking that they could have inhabited the Yuirwood, and then for some reason (Dragons?) they all migrated East long ago, in the area that covers Thazalhar and western Murghôm.
These people would have become more vassals to the ever-expanding Imaskari, and when the Mulan broke free and went east, they 'displaced' the Turami from the region around the Alamber Sea (that part IS canon).
A small group was left to the north as the Mulan settled in their new lands (Thazalhar), and would have become a survivor state for awhile (until the Orcgate wars decimated them). The rest would have continued to be pushed west by the Mulan, and eventually settled in Turmish (that part is also canon).
I have it written that way in my Imaskari history (mostly homebrew), except for the part that the Turami originally came from the Yuirwood. That could have been a tribe of Chultans (proto-Tabaxi/Eshowe) that was seperated from the rest when the world was split asunder (most of that group wound up trapped on the piece that became Katashaka).
if I have these Turami coming out of the Yuirwood around -10,000, that should work for you, shouldn't it?
Hmmm... I like that date... forget Dragons... what if the Yuir Turami were fleeing the Sethomiir Dark Elves?! Timeline-wise, that works rather nicely, and once the got cursed they would run to the nearest place to get out of the sunlight - the deep, ancient forest of Yuir.
Whatya think?
Then enter the Yuir Elves, who take it upon themselves to drive the dark Elves (now Drow) underground in the region (where they later created the ten cities of Undrek'Thoz). The Star Elves may even have started out as a group of Grey (Eladrin) Elves that went hunting for any Illythiir that may have escaped elsewhere (like the Sethomiir). Not sure how well that fits with whatever lore we already have on the Star Elves, though.
if I have these Turami coming out of the Yuirwood around -10,000, that should work for you, shouldn't it?
-Depends. The Elves arrived in the Yuirwood in exactly -9,800 DR. At this point, when they discovered the Yuir Pantheon, they were already abandoned and 'ancient'. From a Human perspective, since the Yuir Pantheon was originally Human, what exactly would constitute 'ancient'? It's somewhat subjective.
Hmmm... I like that date... forget Dragons... what if the Yuir Turami were fleeing the Sethomiir Dark Elves?! Timeline-wise, that works rather nicely, and once the got cursed they would run to the nearest place to get out of the sunlight - the deep, ancient forest of Yuir.
Whatya think?
Then enter the Yuir Elves, who take it upon themselves to drive the dark Elves (now Drow) underground in the region (where they later created the ten cities of Undre'Thoz). The Star Elves may even have started out as a group of Grey (Eladrin) Elves that went hunting for any Illythiir that may have escaped elsewhere (like the Sethomiir). Not sure how well that fits with whatever lore we already have on the Star Elves, though.
-The Yuirwood, specifically, no prevalent history of Drow. The Elves who came to the area came to escape the Crown Wars, and the very next record of conflict we have concerning them would be Untheric Expansion, and then the OrcGate Wars. Nothing about Yuireshanyaar fighting with Drow.
-That said, there is one particular thing of note: In the Yuirwood, used by the Masters of the Yuirwood group, is a tree known as the 'Tree of the Dhaeraow'. A Drow presence, and a Drow "hunt" dating back to this early time can certainly be tied to this tree, which has no specific history itself.
-I feel like an anthropologist, here.
Suppose the Sethomiir Elves (who we now know were crawling all over this region pre-10,000 DR, thanks to the GHotR) chased the Turami east from the Yuirwood between -10,600 and -10,000. Then when the Descent Curse hits, they are the only ones around in the Yuir... for 200 years. Then the Star Elves arrive - by this time, the Drow would have been living in underground shelters for the most part, and only coming out at night. When the Star Elves show up - in force - it wasn't so much a fight as a strategic withdrawal (to the Realms below).
We have a 400-year window for the Dark Elves to chase the Turami east and south, and we have a 200-year window for the Drow to be left alone (creating those things you mentioned) until the Eladrin (:yuck
show up and force them to retreat.I KNOW I read something about Drow in the Yuirwood at one point - let me check my notes.....
Yes, but the Turami of the Yuirwood could have been there for thousands of years - making them, and their gods, 'ancient', by anyone's standards.
-And, do we know anything about their pantheon?
Suppose the Sethomiir Elves (who we now know were crawling all over this region pre-10,000 DR, thanks to the GHotR) chased the Turami east from the Yuirwood between -10,600 and -10,000.
Then when the Descent Curse hits, they are the only ones around in the Yuir... for 200 years. Then the Star Elves arrive - by this time, the Drow would have been living in underground shelters for the most part, and only coming out at night. When the Star Elves show up - in force - it wasn't so much a fight as a strategic withdrawal (to the Realms below).
-That doesn't work out. The Elves of House Sethomiir arrived in -10,400 DR, and promptly went to creating Narathmault. In -10,000 DR, with the Descent, they fled, having been chased away by the demons and other creatures that were now free of their bindings, with their Minotaur servants, and went southeast, to the caverns under Thay.
I KNOW I read something about Drow in the Yuirwood at one point - let me check my notes.....
-I can't say I've ever uncovered anything about Drow in the Yuirwood, in my research for Yuireshanyaar and the Sildeyuir. I'm going to be starting an article on the Yuirwood soon, but, most of the sources are the same.
-And, do we know anything about their pantheon?
Zilch.
Thats why my original thought was to connect them to a proto-group that included the Talfiric, Island, and perhaps Chondathan people. Several other 'learned scribes' (regulars at CK) have also postulated the Celtic pantheon being part of that group, and that divine grouping fits best with anything Fey or Elven (among the human pantheons known in the Realms).
-I can't say I've ever uncovered anything about Drow in the Yuirwood, in my research for Yuireshanyaar and the Sildeyuir. I'm going to be starting an article on the Yuirwood soon, but, most of the sources are the same.
Pg. 47 of the Spellbound Campaign Guide, covering the history of Agloarond -
"Slowly, human civilization expanded inland, building farms and villages, clearing woodland, and clashing with the evil denizens of the Yuirwood - owlbears, stirges, drow, and trolls - as well as with less malevolent beings such as the Yuir Elves and satyrs, who were none-theless determined to defend their homes from encroachment"
The date given for that wave of human expansion is 756 DR - quite a long time from -10,000 DR, but it does prove that Drow did indeed exist within the Yuir before the 'modern period'.
I keep tellin' ya' I've been finding the nasty little buggers in the curioust places. :D
Half-drow who were exiled from Yuirwood long ago are rumored to live among the trolls.
The trolls live in villages, by the way. Presumably they have internet access as well.
As an aside, as this seems like the current thread for such things, I was looking through Elminster's Ecology for gem dragons, and stumbled across some surprising tidbits of information about ancient history and religion. There's one garbled tale of the Khala people of Imaskar who were turned into the perytons as divine punishment for their wicked ways. And there's an obscure legend of a lost city in the High Moors where wizards once captured a minor goddess to steal her power. She might be there still.
They just don't make 'em like that anymore.
I especially like the invisible city of psionic Monks located somewhere between Cormyr and the Dales.
Trolls in towns, eh? I heard they also have a very nice Country Club and a smashing Cricket team. :P
Which EE was that tidbit about the Khala in? I can really work with that. If I turn them into my Yuir Turami, I can give them a better (story-wise) end then just saying they were wiped out during the Orcgate Wars.
Especially since it says they were Divinely punished - what better then a group of people that stopped worshipping their 'old gods' (the Yuir Totems)?
That 'garbled tale' sounds a lot like a legend revolving around Miyeriitar, and that council of High Priests that performed the 'Sharn Ritual' that was in Blackstaff.
The book itself advises heavy caution about taking the tales literally. I guess they've been told and retold, and adapted, and so on. That's nice. I find FR and other settings don't have enough myths and legends, just actual events. They add to the history, but not the flavour.
Invisible city? Psionic monks? You've got me intrigued.
EDIT: Where is it? I'm having troubles finding it. It must be invisible.
Zilch.
-Damn...
Pg. 47 of the Spellbound Campaign Guide, covering the history of Agloarond -
The date given for that wave of human expansion is 756 DR - quite a long time from -10,000 DR, but it does prove that Drow did indeed exist within the Yuir before the 'modern period'.
-Hmm...Well, you know, it wouldn't not make sense for the Drow of House Sethomiir to, at some point, send scouts once they were settled under Thay to see what became of their fortress, and to see if there was any way to salvage the power of it. So, that could explain a temporary, or sporadic presence of Drow in the Yuirwood.
And The trolls live in villages, by the way. Presumably they have internet access as well.
-Unfortunately for us, they do.
Invisible city? Psionic monks? You've got me intrigued.
EDIT: Where is it? I'm having troubles finding it. It must be invisible.
The first mention of it I came across is in the Thunderpeaks and Stormhorns EE supplement. Right at the beginning, on page three, under Hidden Cities.
I didn't think much of it at first, but then I came across a second reference to it, and it being an 'invisible city'. I can't find it ATM - if it isn't in that same booklet, then it is most-likely in one of the other EE supplements.
Ed tended to connect lore together (isn't he the greatest?), and I even found a mention of the Peryton article you found, in the Stormhorns book (in that booklet's 'Peryton' excerpt). It makes mention of the fact the Peryton's are a bit more intelligent then most other flying species, and tend to avoid confrontation with them (like Griffons and Hippogriffs).
Also found mention of Fomorians and DWARVES in both mountain Ranges - funny, now that 4e has made such a big deal about them, I'm starting to notice lots of Fomorians in old FR lore.
I'll try to find that other mention - it may have been in the Stonelands booklet. In another thread about the Stormhorns, I was trying to link that city to a group Monastic Dwarves that were gaurding some ancient, imprisoned 'evil' beneath the Stormhorns - I need to try and find THAT thread now - once again I developed a bunch of fluff in a thread and forgot to copy it all into my notes. :embarrass
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