Suggestions for a Cleric of Mask. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Suggestions for a Cleric of Mask.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
overworkeddm
Jan 24, 2009 19:40:38 Hey guys,

I will be playing in a 3.5 edition forgotten realms game coming up very soon, and my Dm instructed me that I was to make a Cleric of Mask to help his storyline. I'm looking for any suggestions on making the class, such as feats, spells, items, roleplaying suggestions, prestige class suggestions, basically anything you all would like to share. The character is starting out at fifth level, and to help you guys out I would like to play up his stealth abilities, and try my best to not carbon copy Erevis Cale. Thanks a lot in advance for any help or advice.
#2
rauric
Jan 24, 2009 20:08:07 My 3.5 cleric of Mask was Hazim Ali Hassad from Calimport. He was a Zhent and pretty sneaky and scummy. The party loved him though because he was a nice guy and healed everyone, even the Shar worshippers. I hired the fighter who was a follower of Bane to be my bodyguard to protect me from the Sharites in our party and eventually got him and the gnome PC who worshipped Shar to worship Mask. Good times.

At 5th level take one level of Rogue and build up his stealth stuff. Then just keep with the cleric. Or stay with cleric forever. Spells in 3.5 are overpowered and can compensate for lack of skills. It can be lots of fun. Take the spells that raises your str and hps and at later levels there is one that makes you large and very good at melee. Or just take Blind and Bestow Curse. Then there was an option to give up your turning and be able to gain some wizard spells. I took Spectral Hand so I could use touch spells from a distance. That was good times as well.

Remember being a good healers makes even evil pcs like you so that makes you the most powerful member of the party ;) .
#3
lord_karsus
Jan 24, 2009 20:18:43 -Definitely take Rogue as your first level, that way you get all of the Skill Points and Class Skills. I'd personally take two levels in Rogue, and then go three in Cleric, that way you get Evasion. Three levels in Cleric gives you Second Level spells, and four levels in Cleric gives you Second Level spells, only one extra. So, Evasion is probably preferable than one extra spell.
#4
rauric
Jan 24, 2009 22:28:13 When it comes down to it full cleric might just trump the multi-dip. Full spell progression at max uberness is pretty nice. If you want to be a partial skill monkey then start your first level with rogue.
#5
overworkeddm
Jan 24, 2009 22:59:36 What would a good prestige class be for a cleric of Mask? Ive noticed there aren't a lot of good prestige classes for multi-class cleric/rogues out there, any suggestions? Homebrews are acceptable also. Also, any feat suggestions that will help with sneakiness, deception, etc. Thanks again for the help.
#6
rauric
Jan 24, 2009 23:04:01 This irked me also.There are none. Even though Kemp made mask a bit more popular there were no real good PRcs. Perhaps the Vaheraun one would be somewhat decent. If you cannot find any just go straight cleric.
#7
phelf_der_zemit
Jan 25, 2009 0:05:07 If I were you I'd try and convince your DM to buy yourself the shadow template. Full of nifty abilities that will assure some fun time while gaming. The template is located in the Shining South Source Book. Very fun.
#8
Diffan
Jan 25, 2009 2:43:50
I will be playing in a 3.5 edition forgotten realms game coming up very soon, and my Dm instructed me that I was to make a Cleric of Mask to help his storyline. I'm looking for any suggestions on making the class, such as feats, spells, items, roleplaying suggestions, prestige class suggestions, basically anything you all would like to share. The character is starting out at fifth level, and to help you guys out I would like to play up his stealth abilities, and try my best to not carbon copy Erevis Cale. Thanks a lot in advance for any help or advice.

...

What would a good prestige class be for a cleric of Mask? Ive noticed there aren't a lot of good prestige classes for multi-class cleric/rogues out there, any suggestions? Homebrews are acceptable also. Also, any feat suggestions that will help with sneakiness, deception, etc. Thanks again for the help.

Hmm, let me put my character crafting skills to work here....(BTW, this is going to be from an Optimized standpoint).

Ok, first LK's advice of two levels in rogue are pretty solid mainly for grabbing evasion at 2nd level. Keep in mind that you don't want more than 3 non-spellcasting levels in this build because that will keeping you from casting 9th level spells by 20th level.

So rogue 2/ cleric 3 is a good start. For PrCs, your pretty limited as to what works well with rogue/clerics and not loosing spellcasting levels. I've looked through the Complete Scoundrel and there are a few promising classes.

1st-Magical Trickster: Only a 3 level PrC with 2 caster levels but, you gain bonus tricks, a bonus meta-magic feat, Spontaneous Trickster (channel magic, aka prepared spells, into using skill tricks to re-plenish them), 1/day Metamagic trick (add a metamagic feat to a spell w/o raising the level), Tricky Magic (increase spell DCs after you perform a skill trick).

2nd-Master of Masks: I only added this one in because it fits the theme. A 10 level PrC but with only 4 caster-levels (horrible). As you gain levels, you gain specific masks to wear that give you various benefits.

3rd-Shadow Adept: I know, I know..no Erevis Cale but this PrC packs a punch for dark/sneaky clerics (and you don't even have to follow Shar). I like this class for the obvious reasons and it's flavorful.

Lets look at Domains. As per the FRCS (i'm away from the PGtF right now) you got Darkness, Evil, Luck, and Trickery. Honestly, I would go with Darkness and Trickery. Darkness grants you Blind-Fight, an awesome feat no one wants to take (like Improved Initiative). And the spells your granted are pretty usefull throughout your progression. Trickery grants you a number of good rogue class skills as cleric class skills (except for trap skills) and all the spells on the list are good. If you don't like Darkness or Trickery, then I strongly suggest Luck as an alternative. Evil just doesn't measure up to any usefulness (+1 to CL on evil spells = dumb).

For other good cleric spells from the Spell Compendium:
1st-
Ebon Eyes
Grave Strike
Omen of Peril
Sign
2nd-
Curse of Ill Fortune (not a great spell but I think it's fun)
Dark Way
Divine Protection
Iron Silence
Veil of Shadow
3rd-
Aid, Mass
Darkfire
Knight's Move (a cleric teleport spell)
Slashing Darkness
4th-
Consumptive Field (a must for evil clerics)
Recitation
Sound Lance
5th-
Curse of Ill Fortune, Mass
Revivify
Righteous Wrath of the Faithful
Sanctuary, Mass (to heal your friends unimpeded)
Triadspell
6th-
Cometfall (just for fun :P)
Stone Body
7th-
Consumptive Field, Greater
Brilliant Blade
Planeshift, Greater
Restoration, Mass
Withering Palm
8th-
Brilliant Aura
Death Ward, Mass
9th-
Call Marut

Now for feats. I hope your playing a human for the bonus feat at 1st level and additional skill points. Barring prerequisite feats, I always like Extra Turn/Rebuke undead. They help if you decide to take Quicken Spell/Divine Meta-Magic (Quicken Spell). Another feat that will help you is Practiced Spellcaster. It'll increase you CL because of the rogue levels. A few luck feats from Complete Scoundrel wouldn't hurt you either.

Other feats for a cleric really depend on what type of build he's going for. A sneaky cleric might want Domain Spontaneity to get more uses of invisibility or Craft Wand will allow you to keep on-hand cure X wounds spells if your an evil cleric and can't spontaneously cast them. Of course, there is also the classic Combat Expertise/Improved Feint as well. But please, steer clear of Skill buff feats like Deceitful, Nimble Finger, Persuasive, Stealthy, etc... they're not worth it.

Any questions, just post'em or PM me.
#9
lord_karsus
Jan 25, 2009 22:23:28 -An alternative to Rogue might be Beguiler. Beguilers get plenty of Skill Points, have "sneaky" skills as Class Skills and get spell progression (Arcane). They don't get the Sneak Attacks, or the Evasion, but at Level 1 and 2, they get Trapfinding and the ability to use armor as magicians.
#10
the_shaman
Jan 26, 2009 3:15:53 What about a rogue/cloistered cleric? That takes care of the skills issue. I think giantitp.com has the Divine Trickster PRC, to round you off.

Edit: here it is: http://www.giantitp.com/articles/5M5QGsJ5mpbLfAHduZG.html . I would have preferred more skill points, but it should work well enough. Either that or you can try to make a divine version of the Unseen Seer from CMage.
#11
Diffan
Jan 27, 2009 3:18:26 I'm not sure if the Divine Trickster has any official backing (Dragon magazine for example) but if your DM is cool with homebrew PrCs than this one is excellent for you. Though you do have to have 3 levels in rogue to start with this class. I'd suggest going rogue 2/cleric 3/rogue 1/divine trickster 10/cleric 4.

As for the cloistered cleric, it's eh-ok IMO because of the poor BAB and 6HD per level but the skills (6+INT) isn't bad and you gain Knowledge Domain as a bonus domain. I think it depends on preference rather than optimization.

In case you want a closer look at the cloistered cleric
#12
lord_karsus
Jan 27, 2009 11:00:35 -Divine Seeker. I think it's in the FRCS. Is that worth it?
#13
threedeeglasses
Jan 27, 2009 13:09:48 Favoured Souls from Complete Divine cast spells with Charisma, which can be more useful to a rogue than wisdom. But the cost is no domains, and the trickery domain is super useful to you. The Shugenja does the same - and you might find conceivably some of those at work in the powerful clergy of Mask in Thesk, where all kinds of different traditions are practiced in odd mixtures.
There are a few prestige classes floating around that could be adapted: Temple Raider of Olidammara is one, although not ideal. More interesting is the Shadowbane Stalker from Complete Adventurer. It would need some serious work because it is totally a good-alignment-based class (although its abilities aren't necessarily), but it does a good job of blending cleric and rogue stuff, more than any other that I've seen. It lets you burn prepared divine spells to give bonuses to stealth or AC, and to up your sneak attack dice.

But I don't think you need any of that. Play a straight cleric/rogue. Take the trickery domain. Clerics are strong on achieving tactical advantages for the whole party, and rogues (both yourself and those you work with) are very good at taking advantage of the same.
#14
overworkeddm
Jan 27, 2009 20:32:26 Thanks again for all the suggestions guys, great stuff! Please keep it coming, any additional info is greatly appreciated. My first game isn't until Tuesday, so I've got time to make adjustments if you guys think of anything else.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 overworkeddm Jan 24, 2009 19:40:38	Hey guys, I will be playing in a 3.5 edition forgotten realms game coming up very soon, and my Dm instructed me that I was to make a Cleric of Mask to help his storyline. I'm looking for any suggestions on making the class, such as feats, spells, items, roleplaying suggestions, prestige class suggestions, basically anything you all would like to share. The character is starting out at fifth level, and to help you guys out I would like to play up his stealth abilities, and try my best to not carbon copy Erevis Cale. Thanks a lot in advance for any help or advice.
#2 rauric Jan 24, 2009 20:08:07	My 3.5 cleric of Mask was Hazim Ali Hassad from Calimport. He was a Zhent and pretty sneaky and scummy. The party loved him though because he was a nice guy and healed everyone, even the Shar worshippers. I hired the fighter who was a follower of Bane to be my bodyguard to protect me from the Sharites in our party and eventually got him and the gnome PC who worshipped Shar to worship Mask. Good times. At 5th level take one level of Rogue and build up his stealth stuff. Then just keep with the cleric. Or stay with cleric forever. Spells in 3.5 are overpowered and can compensate for lack of skills. It can be lots of fun. Take the spells that raises your str and hps and at later levels there is one that makes you large and very good at melee. Or just take Blind and Bestow Curse. Then there was an option to give up your turning and be able to gain some wizard spells. I took Spectral Hand so I could use touch spells from a distance. That was good times as well. Remember being a good healers makes even evil pcs like you so that makes you the most powerful member of the party ;) .
#3 lord_karsus Jan 24, 2009 20:18:43	-Definitely take Rogue as your first level, that way you get all of the Skill Points and Class Skills. I'd personally take two levels in Rogue, and then go three in Cleric, that way you get Evasion. Three levels in Cleric gives you Second Level spells, and four levels in Cleric gives you Second Level spells, only one extra. So, Evasion is probably preferable than one extra spell.
#4 rauric Jan 24, 2009 22:28:13	When it comes down to it full cleric might just trump the multi-dip. Full spell progression at max uberness is pretty nice. If you want to be a partial skill monkey then start your first level with rogue.
#5 overworkeddm Jan 24, 2009 22:59:36	What would a good prestige class be for a cleric of Mask? Ive noticed there aren't a lot of good prestige classes for multi-class cleric/rogues out there, any suggestions? Homebrews are acceptable also. Also, any feat suggestions that will help with sneakiness, deception, etc. Thanks again for the help.
#6 rauric Jan 24, 2009 23:04:01	This irked me also.There are none. Even though Kemp made mask a bit more popular there were no real good PRcs. Perhaps the Vaheraun one would be somewhat decent. If you cannot find any just go straight cleric.
#7 phelf_der_zemit Jan 25, 2009 0:05:07	If I were you I'd try and convince your DM to buy yourself the shadow template. Full of nifty abilities that will assure some fun time while gaming. The template is located in the Shining South Source Book. Very fun.
#8 Diffan Jan 25, 2009 2:43:50	I will be playing in a 3.5 edition forgotten realms game coming up very soon, and my Dm instructed me that I was to make a Cleric of Mask to help his storyline. I'm looking for any suggestions on making the class, such as feats, spells, items, roleplaying suggestions, prestige class suggestions, basically anything you all would like to share. The character is starting out at fifth level, and to help you guys out I would like to play up his stealth abilities, and try my best to not carbon copy Erevis Cale. Thanks a lot in advance for any help or advice. ... What would a good prestige class be for a cleric of Mask? Ive noticed there aren't a lot of good prestige classes for multi-class cleric/rogues out there, any suggestions? Homebrews are acceptable also. Also, any feat suggestions that will help with sneakiness, deception, etc. Thanks again for the help. Hmm, let me put my character crafting skills to work here....(BTW, this is going to be from an Optimized standpoint). Ok, first LK's advice of two levels in rogue are pretty solid mainly for grabbing evasion at 2nd level. Keep in mind that you don't want more than 3 non-spellcasting levels in this build because that will keeping you from casting 9th level spells by 20th level. So rogue 2/ cleric 3 is a good start. For PrCs, your pretty limited as to what works well with rogue/clerics and not loosing spellcasting levels. I've looked through the Complete Scoundrel and there are a few promising classes. 1st-Magical Trickster: Only a 3 level PrC with 2 caster levels but, you gain bonus tricks, a bonus meta-magic feat, Spontaneous Trickster (channel magic, aka prepared spells, into using skill tricks to re-plenish them), 1/day Metamagic trick (add a metamagic feat to a spell w/o raising the level), Tricky Magic (increase spell DCs after you perform a skill trick). 2nd-Master of Masks: I only added this one in because it fits the theme. A 10 level PrC but with only 4 caster-levels (horrible). As you gain levels, you gain specific masks to wear that give you various benefits. 3rd-Shadow Adept: I know, I know..no Erevis Cale but this PrC packs a punch for dark/sneaky clerics (and you don't even have to follow Shar). I like this class for the obvious reasons and it's flavorful. Lets look at Domains. As per the FRCS (i'm away from the PGtF right now) you got Darkness, Evil, Luck, and Trickery. Honestly, I would go with Darkness and Trickery. Darkness grants you Blind-Fight, an awesome feat no one wants to take (like Improved Initiative). And the spells your granted are pretty usefull throughout your progression. Trickery grants you a number of good rogue class skills as cleric class skills (except for trap skills) and all the spells on the list are good. If you don't like Darkness or Trickery, then I strongly suggest Luck as an alternative. Evil just doesn't measure up to any usefulness (+1 to CL on evil spells = dumb). For other good cleric spells from the Spell Compendium: 1st- Ebon Eyes Grave Strike Omen of Peril Sign 2nd- Curse of Ill Fortune (not a great spell but I think it's fun) Dark Way Divine Protection Iron Silence Veil of Shadow 3rd- Aid, Mass Darkfire Knight's Move (a cleric teleport spell) Slashing Darkness 4th- Consumptive Field (a must for evil clerics) Recitation Sound Lance 5th- Curse of Ill Fortune, Mass Revivify Righteous Wrath of the Faithful Sanctuary, Mass (to heal your friends unimpeded) Triadspell 6th- Cometfall (just for fun :P) Stone Body 7th- Consumptive Field, Greater Brilliant Blade Planeshift, Greater Restoration, Mass Withering Palm 8th- Brilliant Aura Death Ward, Mass 9th- Call Marut Now for feats. I hope your playing a human for the bonus feat at 1st level and additional skill points. Barring prerequisite feats, I always like Extra Turn/Rebuke undead. They help if you decide to take Quicken Spell/Divine Meta-Magic (Quicken Spell). Another feat that will help you is Practiced Spellcaster. It'll increase you CL because of the rogue levels. A few luck feats from Complete Scoundrel wouldn't hurt you either. Other feats for a cleric really depend on what type of build he's going for. A sneaky cleric might want Domain Spontaneity to get more uses of invisibility or Craft Wand will allow you to keep on-hand cure X wounds spells if your an evil cleric and can't spontaneously cast them. Of course, there is also the classic Combat Expertise/Improved Feint as well. But please, steer clear of Skill buff feats like Deceitful, Nimble Finger, Persuasive, Stealthy, etc... they're not worth it. Any questions, just post'em or PM me.
#9 lord_karsus Jan 25, 2009 22:23:28	-An alternative to Rogue might be Beguiler. Beguilers get plenty of Skill Points, have "sneaky" skills as Class Skills and get spell progression (Arcane). They don't get the Sneak Attacks, or the Evasion, but at Level 1 and 2, they get Trapfinding and the ability to use armor as magicians.
#10 the_shaman Jan 26, 2009 3:15:53	What about a rogue/cloistered cleric? That takes care of the skills issue. I think giantitp.com has the Divine Trickster PRC, to round you off. Edit: here it is: http://www.giantitp.com/articles/5M5QGsJ5mpbLfAHduZG.html . I would have preferred more skill points, but it should work well enough. Either that or you can try to make a divine version of the Unseen Seer from CMage.
#11 Diffan Jan 27, 2009 3:18:26	I'm not sure if the Divine Trickster has any official backing (Dragon magazine for example) but if your DM is cool with homebrew PrCs than this one is excellent for you. Though you do have to have 3 levels in rogue to start with this class. I'd suggest going rogue 2/cleric 3/rogue 1/divine trickster 10/cleric 4. As for the cloistered cleric, it's eh-ok IMO because of the poor BAB and 6HD per level but the skills (6+INT) isn't bad and you gain Knowledge Domain as a bonus domain. I think it depends on preference rather than optimization. In case you want a closer look at the cloistered cleric
#12 lord_karsus Jan 27, 2009 11:00:35	-Divine Seeker. I think it's in the FRCS. Is that worth it?
#13 threedeeglasses Jan 27, 2009 13:09:48	Favoured Souls from Complete Divine cast spells with Charisma, which can be more useful to a rogue than wisdom. But the cost is no domains, and the trickery domain is super useful to you. The Shugenja does the same - and you might find conceivably some of those at work in the powerful clergy of Mask in Thesk, where all kinds of different traditions are practiced in odd mixtures. There are a few prestige classes floating around that could be adapted: Temple Raider of Olidammara is one, although not ideal. More interesting is the Shadowbane Stalker from Complete Adventurer. It would need some serious work because it is totally a good-alignment-based class (although its abilities aren't necessarily), but it does a good job of blending cleric and rogue stuff, more than any other that I've seen. It lets you burn prepared divine spells to give bonuses to stealth or AC, and to up your sneak attack dice. But I don't think you need any of that. Play a straight cleric/rogue. Take the trickery domain. Clerics are strong on achieving tactical advantages for the whole party, and rogues (both yourself and those you work with) are very good at taking advantage of the same.
#14 overworkeddm Jan 27, 2009 20:32:26	Thanks again for all the suggestions guys, great stuff! Please keep it coming, any additional info is greatly appreciated. My first game isn't until Tuesday, so I've got time to make adjustments if you guys think of anything else.