Originally Posted by Dm_from_Brazil on Enworld
I just received the RPGA adventure "Return to the Moathouse" (by Mike Mearls), which I ´m going to DM at a local event... and there IS playable SWORDMAGE character, AND a half-orc NPC...
< Ok, the half-orc NPC is useless, as a fountain of information, as it is also a "half-elemental" creature, and don´t have no identifiable "orkish" features - but still, it means that they don´t totally give up in the half-orc race "because it implies a very bad backstory" >
Anyway, here are the SWORDMAGE powers (it´s a 5th level character):
At-Will Powers:
Aegis of Shielding
Swordmage Feature
You create an arcane link between you and a foe, allowing you to instantly
respond to its attacks with a counterassault.
At-Will ✦ Arcane, Teleportation
Minor Action Close burst 2
Target: One creature in burst
Effect: You mark the target. The target remains marked until you use
this power against another target. If you mark other creatures using
other powers, the target is still marked. A creature can be subject to
only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was
already in place.
If your marked target makes an attack that doesn’t include you
as a target, it takes a ---2 penalty to attack rolls. If that attack hits and the attacker is within 10 squares of you, you can use an immediate
interrupt to reduce the damage dealt by that attack to any one
creature by 9 points.
Booming Blade
Swordmage Attack 1
A field of sound punishes your enemy, and it becomes louder if your enemy
tries to escape.
At-Will ✦ Arcane, Thunder, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: +9 vs. AC
Hit: 1d8 + 5 damage, and if the target is adjacent to you at the start
of its turn and moves away, it takes 1d6 + 4 thunder damage.
Sword Burst
Swordmage Attack 1
A sweep of your sword blasts those around you with force.
At-Will ✦ Arcane, Force, Implement
Standard Action Close burst 1
Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: +6 vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + 4 force damage.
Encounter Powers:
Chilling Blow
Swordmage Attack 1
Your blade rips into your foe and cold pulses from the wound, enveloping
your enemy’s body in a crust of frost.
Encounter ✦ Arcane, Cold, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: +9 vs. AC
Hit: 1d8 + 5 cold damage, and the target takes 4 cold damage each
time it attacks until the start of your next turn.
Corrosive Ruin
Swordmage Attack 3
You spin your blade in a tight circle in front of you, assailing foes with a
spray of flesh-melting acid.
Encounter ✦ Acid, Arcane, Weapon
Standard Action Close blast 3
Target: Each creature in blast
Attack: +9 vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + 5 acid damage.
Dimensional Warp
Swordmage Utility 2
You reach out with arcane power, and two of your nearby allies suddenly
wink out and reappear in each other’s places.
Encounter ✦ Arcane, Teleportation
Minor Action Close burst 3
Targets: You and one ally in burst or two allies in burst
Effect: Each target teleports into the other’s space. Both targets
must occupy the same size space, or the power fails.
Daily Powers:
Frost Backlash
Swordmage Attack 1
As your enemy swings for the kill, your warding suddenly turns to ice and
lashes out at your foe with the fury of winter.
Daily ✦ Arcane, Cold, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt Melee weapon
Trigger: An adjacent creature hits you
Target: The creature that hit you
Attack: +9 vs. Reflex
Hit: 3d8 + 5 cold damage.
Miss: Half damage.
Lingering Lightning
Swordmage Attack 5
Tendrils of bluish white lightning course from your blade to electrocute
your enemies.
Daily ✦ Arcane, Lightning, Weapon
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One, two, or three creatures
Attack: +9 vs. Reflex, one attack per target
Hit: 1d8 + 5 damage, and ongoing 5 lightning damage (save ends).
Miss: Half damage, and no ongoing damage
ENJOY!
DM_from_Brazil
Is there anything to indicate that Swordmages originated from Faerun? I'm guessing that, like Bladesingers, Swordmages are something that exist on most worlds. It's just that they're more noticeable in Faerun.
-Rich Baker's replies concerning Swordmages, as well as the fact that the class is appearing in the FRCG.
But appearing in the FRCG doesn't mean it's unique to the Realms.But appearing in the FRCG doesn't mean it's unique to the Realms.
-That's silly. Are you trying to tell me that Rashimi Hathran exist as originating from elsewhere? Or Harper Agents? :P
-By my line of reasoning, if it wasn't specifically related to Faerûn, it wouldn't be put into the FRCG. It could just as easily be put in the PHBII, or one of those other new books that are pending publishing that are supposed to have 4e Core Classes.
Besides, Swordmages were first mentioned in Races and Classes. And that's certainly not a Forgotten Realms specific book. Nevermind that the idea is to make campaign specific books more useful for general campaigns. Creating new classes which're specific to only one campaign defeats that purpose.
It's a base class, not a Prestige Class.
Besides, Swordmages were first mentioned in Races and Classes. And that's certainly not a Forgotten Realms specific book. Nevermind that the idea is to make campaign specific books more useful for general campaigns. Creating new classes which're specific to only one campaign defeats that purpose.
-Again, why waste the space in the FRCG that can be dedicated to something more relevant, then? Not asking you, just asking in general.
So that people who are interested in the base class buy the book, even if they don't really want to use the Realms would be my guess... not a bad tactic if you think about it. Wouldn't be surprised if they do that with all the campaign setting books really.
-Personally speaking, I think it's borderline asinine to believe that someone will buy a $39.99 (I am assuming) book specifically for two or three pages.
As for why it's appearing there, probably to get it out sooner. It couldn't fit in the PHB1, so they put it in the first available book they had. That there was a FR novel coming out called "Swordmage" only made the decision easier.
Let's put it another way. Bladesinger may end up being a Paragon Path for the Swordmage. We know Bladesingers exist in numerous other words aside from Toril. So would their inclusion in the FRPG mean that they only exist in Faerun?
-Personally speaking, I think it's borderline asinine to believe that someone will buy a $39.99 (I am assuming) book specifically for two or three pages.
- The book's $30.
- Classes take up at least 15 pages each, not just two or three pages.
- They intend for the other stuff to be useable outside of Realms campaigns (Genasi and Drow PC races, feats, and other stuff). By way of example, they put the Red Wizard Prestige Class in the DMG. It's a Forgotten Realms specific Prestige Class, but they wanted people to use it in other campaigns.
I like the Aegis Shield ability the most. Might steal the idea for intercepting attacks for a bladesinger skill trick.
It seems a swordmage uses his sword to weave an arcane bubble around him that can deflect energy and attacks, but also is able to manipulate energies in those arcs to hurt foes, or draw their attention (mark them). By teleporting shortdistances to and from their mark they can deflect from favored angles making them harry their target for attention. I would love see some swordmages duel eachother too.
One thing that bugs me though If there are still ways to counterspell in 4e. Is aegis shoeld the first example of countermagic? A magc missile gets countered by an Aegis Shield attack when it fails to damage that ally?
- The book's $30.
- Classes take up at least 15 pages each, not just two or three pages.
-Doesn't change the fact that I think it's asinine that they think people will spend the money to have access to a single class.
- They intend for the other stuff to be useable outside of Realms campaigns (Genasi and Drow PC races, feats, and other stuff). By way of example, they put the Red Wizard Prestige Class in the DMG. It's a Forgotten Realms specific Prestige Class, but they wanted people to use it in other campaigns.
-Sure, and you know the kind of response we gave that when it appeared. :thumbsdow
Can't search for Rich's answers as I keep getting database erros.
-Not anymore. One Core to rule Them All. ;) :P
18DELTA ;)
-Doesn't change the fact that I think it's asinine that they think people will spend the money to have access to a single class.
You might think that, but it doesn't necessarily make it true. People bought Dungeonscape just for the Factotum, for instance. Besides, there'll be far more in the FRPG then just the Swordmage. If Drow is a PC race, then that's something else useable for other D&D settings (and no reason Genasi can't exist in other worlds). Nevermind that there'll be new class powers in the book, and some of the Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies are bound to be useable in other settings (And even the setting specific ones can be used, at least mechanically. Hathrans, for instance. Just change the name and background and you're set). Although on balance, I'd prefer if the Swordmage did get reprinted in the PHB2 (though not at the expense of a new class).
-Alright. Bear with me for a second now...So, if the Swordmage is a specific class that was born from Faerûnian Bladesingers, why are they randomly appearing elsewhere, then?
A wizard that also knows how to wield a sword (or a fighter that knows some magic) doesn't need to be specific to Faerun. I'll be allowing them in my Eberron campaign. Now they won't be descended from bladesingers who were forced to change their craft because the Weave was destroyed. They'll just be fighters who know some magic.
-By my line of reasoning, if it wasn't specifically related to Faerûn, it wouldn't be put into the FRCG. It could just as easily be put in the PHBII, or one of those other new books that are pending publishing that are supposed to have 4e Core Classes.
I'm also going to have Drow (and probably Genasi although I'm not sure how yet) in my Eberron game, despite the fact they're in the FRCS.
WotC has been encouraging us to use things from other campaign settings in our games. And while I won't have Cormyr in Eberron or Sharn in Forgotten Realms, I see no reason not to have races and classes move between settings.
-Personally speaking, I think it's borderline asinine to believe that someone will buy a $39.99 (I am assuming) book specifically for two or three pages.
I love Forgotten Realms and I'll probably buy the Player's book when it comes out or soon after. However before deciding to include Swordmages in my Eberron campaign, I was going to wait a few months (quite possibly even as much as 6 or 12) before buying the book instead of getting it straight away. So while I doubt it will encourage anyone to buy the books if they weren't going to anyway, it can encourage people to buy the books sooner.
So that people who are interested in the base class buy the book, even if they don't really want to use the Realms would be my guess... not a bad tactic if you think about it. Wouldn't be surprised if they do that with all the campaign setting books really.
Ding ding ding ding ding! I believe this is the correct answer.:D
I have read many posts on other forums about people buying the FR book just for the new class. Dude(@LK), this is what gamers do. They buy stuff even though they do not need most of what they buy. Gamers are not as selective as they pretend to be. They are spontaneous and gooberific when it comes to new shiny things. How do you think all of those Complete books sold so well? It wasn't the fluff inside or lore. It was the crunch. New spells to make the caster classess more overpowered and some new melee feats to make fighters better chainers and trippers! ;)
I'm also going to have Drow (and probably Genasi although I'm not sure how yet) in my Eberron game, despite the fact they're in the FRCS.
Drow ARE in Eberron, note guys... They are related to Elves, albeit less directly - both where slaves of giants, and they now live in the jungles of Xen'drik, as isolationist and tatooed 'savages'.
They also worship some scorpion god, that is maybe one of the Six.
Drow ARE in Eberron, note guys... They are related to Elves, albeit less directly - both where slaves of giants, and they now live in the jungles of Xen'drik, as isolationist and tatooed 'savages'.
They also worship some scorpion god, that is maybe one of the Six.
Yes, I was pointing out that even though something (such as Drow, Genasi and Swordmage) appear in FR books, doesn't mean they can't appear elsewhere (as in the canonical case of drow) ;)
-Sure, and you know the kind of response we gave that when it appeared. :thumbsdow
Yes, b/c we all know that if the posters on the FR boards (who never voice negative opinions..) gave the Red Wizard class in the DMG a thumbs down, then surely everyone the world over did.
I mean, how could you play D&D and be contrary to the opinion of some posters on a message board!
Not possible!
Dude(@LK), this is what gamers do. They buy stuff even though they do not need most of what they buy. Gamers are not as selective as they pretend to be. They are spontaneous and gooberific when it comes to new shiny things.
-This makes me unsure of the future of America.
Yes, b/c we all know that if the posters on the FR boards (who never voice negative opinions..) gave the Red Wizard class in the DMG a thumbs down, then surely everyone the world over did.
I mean, how could you play D&D and be contrary to the opinion of some posters on a message board!
Not possible!
-Oh, yeah, that was real smooth, there.
If no one has said it. It has been confirmed that they will be released in the FR Players guide
-Yes, this has been confirmed already.
-Oh, yeah, that was real smooth, there.
It was an adequate response for the absurdity of that statement.
It was an adequate response for the absurdity of that statement.
-That when a very specific PrC was "made general"- and, much of the "flavor" of the class stems from the specifics that are lost from "exporting" it- the majority of us here thought it "silly"?
-That when a very specific PrC was "made general"- and, much of the "flavor" of the class stems from the specifics that are lost from "exporting" it- the majority of us here thought it "silly"?
Partly. New flavor can always be thought up by a half competent DM. I can take ANY race/class from any campaign setting and make it work in my homebrew.
But mostly it was that you seemed to think that because most people on here gave it a thumbs down that that was THE word on the subject. People other than FR fans exist in the world, and WotC is trying to get them to understand that it's ok to take what you want from the setting even if you dont use it wholesale.
Partly. New flavor can always be thought up by a half competent DM. I can take ANY race/class from any campaign setting and make it work in my homebrew.
-Sure. The Red Wizard of Thay is a specific thing, however.
But mostly it was that you seemed to think that because most people on here gave it a thumbs down that that was THE word on the subject. People other than FR fans exist in the world, and WotC is trying to get them to understand that it's ok to take what you want from the setting even if you dont use it wholesale.
-Did I ever say that? I said, specifically, "-Sure, and you know the kind of response we gave that when it appeared. :thumbsdow".
Lord Karsus: "This name is ridiculous! Giths are the name for magical sword-wielding Githyanki! Why should I call my Bladesigner a Gith, when he is clearly a Swordsmage! Way to homogenize the Realms, WotC!"
Meanwhile, in Bizarro Earth, on the "Gith 4e scoop" thread:
Lord Karsus: "This name is ridiculous! Giths are the name for magical sword-wielding Githyanki! Why should I call my Bladesigner a Gith, when he is clearly a Swordsmage! Way to homogenize the Realms, WotC!"
-I...don't get it.
-Sure. The Red Wizard of Thay is a specific thing, however.
-Did I ever say that? I said, specifically, "-Sure, and you know the kind of response we gave that when it appeared. :thumbsdow".
Matters not. So is a Purple Dragon Knight but I promise you I could put it in my campaign with only a little effort.
What does that imply? That the FR boards have passed judgement. WotC, you will not do this thing! We think it's "silly"!
Matters not. So is a Purple Dragon Knight but I promise you I could put it in my campaign with only a little effort.
-I'm sure you could. Why someone would use a concept that was designed with a specific place in mind, deriving much of what it is from these exact circumstances, and transplanting it elsewhere, losing those exact circumstances that it derives what it is, boggles my mind.
-I have an organization that is similar in nature to the Harpers in my own setting. I didn't take the Harper organization and wholesale transplant it into my setting, plopping it down with little regard to what makes the Harpers the Harpers, and specific factors present in the region this organization is based in.
What does that imply? That the FR boards have passed judgement. WotC, you will not do this thing! We think it's "silly"!
-Where are you going with this?
-I'm sure you could. Why someone would use a concept that was designed with a specific place in mind, deriving much of what it is from these exact circumstances, and transplanting it elsewhere, losing those exact circumstances that it derives what it is, boggles my mind.
-I have an organization that is similar in nature to the Harpers in my own setting. I didn't take the Harper organization and wholesale transplant it into my setting, plopping it down with little regard to what makes the Harpers the Harpers, and specific factors present in the region this organization is based in.
-Where are you going with this?
Dude...c'mon. How much imagination would it take to change those "exact circumstances" into something more suitable for your homebrew? If you can even make a competent homebrew setting (a large undertaking), then transplanting certain classes/and or organizations that you particularly like should be pie.
And it's funny you asked me where im going with this, b/c I was wondering where you were going with it when you made that comment. The only thing I can come up with is that you think that these boards comprise a majority of the D&D population, which they dont.
Dude...c'mon. How much imagination would it take to change those "exact circumstances" into something more suitable for your homebrew?
-Depends on the setting and the class, obviously. That said, the Purple Dragon Knights, lets use as an example, are a specific branch of the military of Cormyr. What would they be doing on...Obsidisidfoisdh, serving the state of Aygsdkjbkd? The Hathran...They command the spirit magics specific to Rasheman, and appear the way they appear, in societal structure, and even in appearance, for specific reasons. Why does this also happen on planet Ylkskldkj?
If you can even make a competent homebrew setting (a large undertaking), then transplanting certain classes/and or organizations that you particularly like should be pie.
-"All purpose" PrCs (Things that don't come with any particular lore attached to them), sure. Transplanting the Hathran of Rasheman, not so much, for the reasons previously stated.
And it's funny you asked me where im going with this, b/c I was wondering where you were going with it when you made that comment. The only thing I can come up with is that you think that these boards comprise a majority of the D&D population, which they dont.
-Again, this is what I typed: "-Sure, and you know the kind of response we gave that when it appeared. :thumbsdow"
-I'm sure you could. Why someone would use a concept that was designed with a specific place in mind, deriving much of what it is from these exact circumstances, and transplanting it elsewhere, losing those exact circumstances that it derives what it is, boggles my mind.
-I have an organization that is similar in nature to the Harpers in my own setting. I didn't take the Harper organization and wholesale transplant it into my setting, plopping it down with little regard to what makes the Harpers the Harpers, and specific factors present in the region this organization is based in.
-Where are you going with this?
D&D isn't organ replacement surgery dude.
I dare you to write up a summary of some forgotten realms organization. If I cannot convert it to eberron by changing only names and places in an A = B manner, then I will put into my sig that Lord Karsus is smarter than me, and a few other things.
-I...don't get it.
You're complaining that WotC is making FR-specific things like Swordmages core. I believe you padded your incredulity with "What's next? Harpers?"
I pointed out that, if WotC decided to use a non-FR name for a class that does what the Swordmage does, FR fans would be up in arms over that.
The problem I have isn't so much that FR prestige classes are in Core books but the repitition of said prestige classes. How many times was the Purple Dragon class released? Or the Red Wizard, Bladesinger, Black Flame Zealot, or Thayan Knight for that matter? I hate seeing the same PrC across different sources when 1 source is just as good as the next. People have to realize that cross-setting specifics are a thing of the past and that "crunch" is usually universal.
EDIT: Yes, i realize that the Bladesinger from Races of Faerun was different from the write up in the Complete Warrior and I'm hoping 4e will get the flavor and mechanics for the bladesinger right for a change.
1388 DR (Year of the Tanarukka)
Bullywugs tribes from the Farsea Marshes begin harrying Zhentarim forces operating throughout the Tunlands, diminishing Black Network activities in the region.
Some members of Cormyr's remaining War Wizards, having lost access to the Art, begin cross-training with the Purple Dragons in swordplay and martial defense. In years to come these swordmages will prove invaluable against neighboring aggression in the region.
so this is only one of possible "start points" for the swordmage class
Why someone would use a concept that was designed with a specific place in mind, deriving much of what it is from these exact circumstances, and transplanting it elsewhere, losing those exact circumstances that it derives what it is, boggles my mind.
That's just what good Dungeon Masters do.
Use good ideas wherever and whenever you find them.
It's been that way for the length of existence of the Dungeons and Dragons game.
Now me, I wasn’t happy to see the Red Wizard in the 3.5 DMG, but hey, it’s not like this killed FR or diluted it. That, and the fact that it just isn’t true that you ‘loose’ the flavor of something when you borrow it. It’s that flavor that makes you want to borrow it in the first place.
So you keep as much of it as you can to spice up your own game and add one whatever else you want that suits your fancy.
It’s what being a good Dungeon Master is all about.
-Every concept and idea has a objective idea attached to it. Purple Dragon Knights, for instance, are Purple Dragon Knights. They aren't something else. Red Wizards are Red Wizards. They aren't something else. Taking the concept and the name, and altering other details, causes the idea in question to lose the objective qualities that it possesses, and thus, causes it to become something else.
Ok man. Whatever you say. I think you just had like what, 5 or 6 people, myself included, say that it's easy as pie to make a very very specific race/class your own with a little imagination. There was even examples given. Take the blinders off. This whole "Red Wizards are Red Wizards and Purple Dragons are Purple Dragons!" bit is weak.
Any class is whatever I say it is in my campaign and that's it. If I change the name from Thay to Thanator, then guess what? In my campaign Red Wizards are ambitious, evil, very narrowly focused wizards who hail from Thanator. See? Simple.
What it comes down to is that if you change the name and backstory, mechanically you're still left with Red Wizards. Give it a Good alignment pre-requisite and call them the Sockpuppets of Azuth, or maybe sticking them in Aundair and associate them with Arcanix with no alignment requirements, and you've still got a PrC with the same basic attributes (alignment aside), which are essentially Red Wizards for all intents and purposes from a practical point of view. Same thing from a mechanics point of view, nothing alike from a lore point of view.
Same thing from a mechanics point of view, nothing alike from a lore point of view.
-Which makes them something other than Red Wizards! Which is my point. Was my point. Whatever.
Meanwhile, in Bizarro Earth, on the "Gith 4e scoop" thread:
Lord Karsus: "This name is ridiculous! Giths are the name for magical sword-wielding Githyanki! Why should I call my Bladesigner a Gith, when he is clearly a Swordsmage! Way to homogenize the Realms, WotC!"
I think you mean "Gish", not "Gith"?
Just to pitch in, I always utterly hated PRCs that existed just to offer a tiny ammount of flavor that could be given with feats. Huge part of why 3.5 was so unbalanced.
-I'm the exact opposite: Those are the ones I want, so that I can add in the applicable lore, being as that it doesn't already exist.
Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.
Hehe LK you never played with power gamers.
-One out of the two people I DM for is a power gamer, although he doesn't understand how to "optimize" a character properly. He just tries to max out STR and damage...
Personally, I'm psyched about the new class & am looking forward to playing one.
-I'm the exact opposite: Those are the ones I want, so that I can add in the applicable lore, being as that it doesn't already exist.
I'm with you
I'm with you
-That allows me to not have to worry about the things I elaborated on.
Me too. I can't wait to try it out, in the Forgotten Realms or otherwise. I especially like the idea of playing a Swordmage and getting a few multiclass Feats to gain some Wizard spells.
I like the basic concept of the Swordmage with its magical armor and teleportation. I wonder how many if any offensive spells they will get
I like the basic concept of the Swordmage with its magical armor and teleportation. I wonder how many if any offensive spells they will get
Probably not as many as say a wizard or warlock considering he would use his melee weapon for most attacks. But like Green Knight said, that could easily be swapped with Multi-class Feats with the wizard's spells and if your a Half-Elf, you can take an extra at-will attack from one class that's not your starting class. So a half-elf swordmage could also get say magic missile for the additional attack. Sooooooo many possibilities.
I like the basic concept of the Swordmage with its magical armor and teleportation. I wonder how many if any offensive spells they will get
-If it's similar to or a variation on the Bladesinger, probably not many.
-This makes me unsure of the future of America.
Thats not a problem for you, if things get worse just cast Karsus's Election and become president. If you can take the power of a god, taking the office of president will be a walk in the park. Besides, you have good ol' Mxyztplk on your side. All hail Karsus!
Back to the swordmage. I think the class will barely have any ranged attacks. A defender id intented to stay in the thick of combat and he seems to have a lot of mobility as it is. That said, as a class that uses Int heavily, he will multiclass well with wizard so picking at least one single target encounter attack from wizard (or even better an at-will if a half-elf) might be a very intelligent choice. Plus if he really is this teleport heavy, the Wizard of the Spiral Tower PrP will be sick on him. Very much looking forward to it.
Actually he does seem to have a ranged attack. Nothing amazing but reasonable. That's nice. Still the close burst marking will hurt him against fliers.
Thats not a problem for you, if things get worse just cast Karsus's Election and become president. If you can take the power of a god, taking the office of president will be a walk in the park. Besides, you have good ol' Mxyztplk on your side. All hail Karsus!
-If only it were really that easy...
Back to the swordmage. I think the class will barely have any ranged attacks. A defender id intented to stay in the thick of combat and he seems to have a lot of mobility as it is. That said, as a class that uses Int heavily, he will multiclass well with wizard so picking at least one single target encounter attack from wizard (or even better an at-will if a half-elf) might be a very intelligent choice. Plus if he really is this teleport heavy, the Wizard of the Spiral Tower PrP will be sick on him. Very much looking forward to it.
-As I said, the spell selection of the Bladesinger and/or Duskblade is pretty similar.
After reading the book "Swordmage", I believe it stated something like he trained with the elven Blade singers even though they were more advanced then he was. So I'm like 99% sure Blade singer will be a PP for it.
well, I just bought this on ebay cheap
well, I just bought this on ebay cheap
-I saw it in the book store for not cheap. Good for you.
i know all the powers flavor text says sword, but if i want an axe, hammer, flail, or glaivemage.... i hope all these are possible and that sword is not hard wired in.
this may sound stupid, but i hope the swordmage can use other weapons besides the sword.
i know all the powers flavor text says sword, but if i want an axe, hammer, flail, or glaivemage.... i hope all these are possible and that sword is not hard wired in.
I'm thinking it might not, but thats just my guess. In 4e, wizards have implements. To date, we just have staff, ord and wand. My guess is the swordmage uses a sword as an implement
this may sound stupid, but i hope the swordmage can use other weapons besides the sword.
i know all the powers flavor text says sword, but if i want an axe, hammer, flail, or glaivemage.... i hope all these are possible and that sword is not hard wired in.
I am sure many players will have their Dms alter the class a bit to fit their weaponry needs.
everywhere it says sword ill substitute the word hammer!!
cool, because i want to be a dwarven HAMMER MAGE!!
everywhere it says sword ill substitute the word hammer!!
sure, why not
just as long as your character doesn't continually shout "its hammer time!"
Then we might take away your hammer mage
I would love to see someone shout that in battle... that's just make my decade. :D
more like "that's just make my 2 decades ago"
I nearly killed a fellow player on a roleplay server who played an abnoxious elf bard who kept on dancing and saying: Cant touch this... deded-di, dedi..., dedi..., Stop!... HammerTime!Anyway the class is called the swordmage. Poor naming convention but it does sound like it ties the class to blades.
Anyway the class is called the swordmage. Poor naming convention but it does sound like it ties the class to blades.
-The Spellsword, from...Complete Warrior implies a tie to the sword, but the text specifically says that some use swords, some use hammers, some use spears, and so on. It's the tie that the Spellsword has to the Bladesinger- who is limited to a select few swords- is what seems to tie the class to blades. At least, to me. If the Bladesinger connection wasn't there, than I'd go say that it should be able to go the route of the Spellsword.
I am tad disappointed that you didn't kill him
I am tad disappointed that you didn't kill him
He would just respawn
Unless its an elf swordmage, in which case they both suck. :D
Also swordmage seems to share Int as an important score with Wizard which means they may multiclass well together and that is very nice since controller/defender is a very complimentary multiclass.
Swordmage > Bladesinger :P
Unless its an elf swordmage, in which case they both suck. :D
-You blaspheme!
Which other FR fighting traditions beyond elven bladesingers might possibly be represented by Swordmages?
-There's more 'Core' stuff that would match than Forgotten Realms specific stuff.
-You blaspheme!
:evillaugh
I would love to see someone shout that in battle... that's just make my decade. :D
Hah, I did just that when I played Chainmail a couple years back. I was playing Thalos and I had the Hammerer in my warband. Then when his turn came up I turned to the other player and said "STOP... HAMMER TIME!". Wish I'd worn baggy pants to the game. :D
I hope they can dual-wield (not dualwielding wands no, I talk swords) in some meaningful manner...never did the dual-wielding bladesinger get any love before, and I suspect it will go on forever....
Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but part of the whole bladesong, mixing melee and magic thing required one free hand for the somatic component of the spells the bladesinger is casting.
First in complete mage did it at all become possible in 3.5, abeit at a horrible dissadvantage (something like 6 feats to gain nothing). At least I managed since I powergamed heavily (for once) and the others did not, making us pretty equal
Is the idea of a dual-wielding mage really that far fetched?
Is the idea of a dual-wielding mage really that far fetched?
I wouldn't say so... apparently it is from an official point of view, but I see no reason why a mage couldn't use their weapon as a focus for their spells to be honest, beyond some idiotic notion of 'balance' that I disagree with from the start. But let's not start that arguement again if you don't mind.
I'd suggest coming up with a house-rule that you work out with your DM myself... easier said than done perhaps, but I have the advantage of being said DM myself, which is good at times, but really crap if I actually want to run a PC rather than a campaign.
I'd go rapier/stiletto myself.
I wouldn't say so... apparently it is from an official point of view, but I see no reason why a mage couldn't use their weapon as a focus for their spells to be honest, beyond some idiotic notion of 'balance' that I disagree with from the start. But let's not start that arguement again if you don't mind.
Well, if a character takes the Wizard of the Spiral Tower PP, they can use a longsword as their "implement".
There ya go then, one good thing 4e stuck in there at least... heard you can't dual wield though, unless you're a ranger or something though, right? Seems a strange rule to me, presuming I'm not mistaken, but that's what houserules are for I guess.
Actually, I from what I recall, you can take feats for dual-wielding, and they aren't restricted to rangers.
Heard somewhere that wasn't the case. Hope you're right though... don't think I could live without dual-wielding rapier/stiletto fighter mages... not that I can really make those to my satisfaction, but that's neither here nor there.
I'm pretty sure you can make such a character. I have a dual-wielding fighter in mind, and I checked out the dual-wield feats because of that. I distinctly recall them NOT saying they were "ranger only".
Note the 'to my satisfaction' qualifier there. ;)
Understood.
Just saying it isn't all bad.Personally, considering how hard it is to actually dual wield anything but the lightest of weapons and attack with them simultaneously, I find it a good thing. DW is a fantasy staple with almost no analogy in the real word, mainly because it is exceedingly hard to do with anything but a parrying offhand.
Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but part of the whole bladesong, mixing melee and magic thing required one free hand for the somatic component of the spells the bladesinger is casting.
-Right. If the spell has components other than verbal ones.
Yet another reason to ignore the existance of 4e for me then...
Yeah, if you are going to believe all the statements presented as facts by anonymous internet posters, you probably won't like 4e.
The 4e in your head I mean, not the actual 4e... that version actually differs quite a bit from the referred to on these boards.
How about everyone reserves judgement on the Swordmage and whether or not they can dual-wield or use their weapon as an implement until, I dunno, the class is actually released? Oh, right...internet forum...I get it now.
Joe
P.S. This is a general comment, not aimed at any one poster or statement in particular.
What Still Spell is for... presuming that still exists in some form.
-Personally speaking, most of the spells on the official (Races of Faerûn) Bladesinger spell list aren't even worth it. But, since it's PrC, the Wizard/Fighter likely has better spells, from his Wizard spell list.
With the WoST you can indeed dual-wield, but you have to use a longsword and a light weapon, where I would prefer either two light weapons or two longswords (for the looks of course). Why the restrictions!
-Because they're big and heavy?
Yeah, if you are going to believe all the statements presented as facts by anonymous internet posters, you probably won't like 4e.
The 4e in your head I mean, not the actual 4e... that version actually differs quite a bit from the referred to on these boards.
How about everyone reserves judgement on the Swordmage and whether or not they can dual-wield or use their weapon as an implement until, I dunno, the class is actually released? Oh, right...internet forum...I get it now.
Joe
P.S. This is a general comment, not aimed at any one poster or statement in particular.
Speculation is about all we have at the moment, so we're speculating... ;)
Bel
Some good Swordmage info here: LFR FRPG Preview as well as previews of the FR Drow and Genasi. Plus Backgrounds(similar to racial feats in 3x).
Bel
Interesting stuff, to say the least!
18DELTA ;)