Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 naex Aug 25, 2008 18:02:59	They should have this posted tonight, so I am reserving this spot now... Take that Delta....here it is Show Class Traits Role: Defender. You are a melee combatant who uses spells to fight better. Power Source: Arcane. You study ancient magical tradi¬tions and practice swordplay, developing arcane powers that work well with your physical attacks. Key Abilities: Intelligence, Strength, Constitution Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military light blades, military heavy blades, simple ranged Implements: Any light blade or heavy blade. Your blade adds its enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls and any extra damage granted by a property (if applicable) when used as an imple¬ment. You do not gain your weapon proficiency bonus to the attack roll when using your blade as an implement. Bonus to Defense: +2 Will Hit Points at 1st Level: 15 + Constitution modifier Hit Points per Level Gained: 6 Healing Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier Trained Skills: Arcana. From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level. Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha) Build Options: Assault swordmage, shielding swordmage Class Features: Swordbond, Swordmage Aegis (aegis of assault or aegis of shielding), Swordmage Warding Shielding Swordmage You protect your allies with magical shields of force—and by keeping enemies away from them. This heritage is embodied by the Coronal Guard tradition (see page 48 for that paragon path), a discipline that can be traced over a thousand years to the armathors, the elite guards of the coronal of Myth Drannor. Intelligence powers your attacks, so it should be your highest ability score. Constitution applies added effects to many of your attacks, so it should be your second-highest score. A good Strength lets you take advantage of assault swordmage powers (giving you some added offense) and keeps your basic attack decent. You’ll want to keep a hand free to get your AC bonus from Swordmage Warding class feature, so you should use a one-handed weapon such as a longsword or a scimitar. Suggested Feat: Retributive Shield (Human feat: Student of Sword Magic) Suggested Skills: Arcana, Diplomacy, History, Insight Suggested At-Will Powers: booming blade, lightning lure Suggested Encounter Power: chilling blow Suggested Daily Power: frost backlash Class Features Aegis of Shielding Swordmage Feature You create an arcane link between you and an enemy, allowing you to blunt its attacks against your allies. At-WillArcane Minor Action Close burst 2 Target: One creature in burst Effect: You mark the target. The target remains marked until you use this power against another target. If you mark other creatures using other powers, the target is still marked. A creature can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was already in place. If your marked target makes an attack that doesn’t include you as a target, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls. If that attack hits and the marked target is within 10 squares of you, you can use an immediate interrupt to reduce the damage dealt by that attack to any one creature by an amount equal to 5 + your Constitution modifier. At 11th level, reduce the damage dealt by 10 + your Constitution modifier. At 21st level, reduce the damage dealt by 15 + your Constitution modifier. Level 1 At-Will Spells Booming Blade Swordmage Attack 1 A field of sound punishes your enemy, and the sound becomes louder if your enemy tries to escape. At-WillArcane, Thunder, Weapon Standard Action Melee weapon Target: One creature Attack: Intelligence vs. AC Hit: 1[W] + Intelligence modifier damage, and if the target is adjacent to you at the start of its turn and moves away, it takes 1d6 + Constitution modifier thunder damage. Increase damage to 2[W] + Intelligence modifier at 21st level. Greenflame Blade Swordmage Attack 1 Each blow ignites your blade in deadly green fire. At-WillArcane, Fire, Weapon Standard Action Melee weapon Target: One creature Attack: Intelligence vs. AC Hit: 1[W] + Intelligence modifier fire damage, and you deal fire damage equal to your Strength modifier to all enemies adjacent to the target. Increase damage to 2[W] + Intelligence modifier at 21st level. Lightning Lure Swordmage Attack 1 You lasso your foe with a leash of lightning and pull it into range of your blade. At-WillArcane, Implement, Lightning Standard Action Ranged 3 Target: One creature Attack: Intelligence vs. Fortitude Hit: 1d6 + Intelligence modifier lightning damage, and you pull the target to the nearest unoccupied space adjacent to you. Increase damage to 2d6 + Intelligence modifier at 21st level. Special: If you cannot pull the target to an adjacent square, this power fails and deals no damage. Sword Burst Swordmage Attack 1 A sweep of your sword blasts those around you with force. At-WillArcane, Force, Implement Standard Action Close burst 1 Target: Each enemy in burst Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 + Intelligence modifier force damage. Increase damage to 2d6 + Intelligence modifier at 21st level. Level 27 Encounter Spells Dimensional Charge Swordmage Attack 27 Your blade opens a rift in reality, and you leap through to attack your enemy. EncounterArcane, Fire, Lightning, Teleportation, Thunder, Weapon Standard Action Melee weapon Target: One creature Effect: Before making the attack, you can teleport 10 squares to a space adjacent to the target. If you do, the attack is a charge. Attack: Intelligence vs. AC Hit: 4[W] + Intelligence modifier fire, lightning, and thunder damage. Level 29 Daily Spells Vorpal Doom Swordmage Attack 29 Your weapon becomes razor-sharp and takes on a silvery sheen. DailyArcane, Reliable, Weapon Standard Action Melee weapon Target: One creature Attack: Intelligence vs. AC Hit: 7[W] + Intelligence modifier damage. Effect: Until the end of the encounter, your melee attacks with this weapon, including this attack, can score critical hits if your attack roll is a natural 19 or 20.
#2 18DELTA Aug 25, 2008 18:19:23	- Knock yer self out. :P -Hopefully the post police don't report this post. 18DELTA
#3 aqualubeownz Aug 25, 2008 19:20:01	What is this post trying to say, that mroe swordmage info will be out soon >?
#4 naex Aug 25, 2008 19:21:44	What is this post trying to say, that mroe swordmage info will be out soon >? There is supposed to be a PG excerpt tommorrow on the Swordmage, so around 12am ET it should be posted on the WotC site, and the link will be here as fast as I can get it on.
#5 SoulCatcher78 Aug 25, 2008 19:23:58	TEASE!!!! No fair I wonder how much of an exerpt this will be.
#6 JudgeDookie Aug 25, 2008 19:24:19	There is supposed to be a PG excerpt tommorrow on the Swordmage, so around 12am ET it should be posted on the WotC site, and the link will be here as fast as I can get it on. Knowing that 18D is cyberneticly linked to that site, I wish you well and bet a nickel he beats you to it. ;)
#7 naex Aug 25, 2008 19:32:46	Knowing that 18D is cyberneticly linked to that site, I wish you well and bet a nickel he beats you to it. ;) I've gotten it before, and I have a tab there now being refreshed every 5 minutes.
#8 JudgeDookie Aug 25, 2008 19:49:09	I've gotten it before, and I have a tab there now being refreshed every 5 minutes. 18D's refreshes at 1.3 minutes. He literally chugs coffee and snorts No-Doze so he doesn't miss these important things. Please refresh.... Please refresh....
#9 naex Aug 25, 2008 19:52:09	18D's refreshes at 1.3 minutes. He literally chugs coffee and snorts No-Doze so he doesn't miss these important things. Please refresh.... Please refresh.... Doesn't beat my crack habit (kidding of course)
#10 JudgeDookie Aug 25, 2008 20:02:03	Doesn't beat my crack habit (kidding of course) I thought there was something about you...though, if your ass was on crack (no pun) , I highly doubt you'd be able to afford the internet, nor converse as well as you do. Now, 18D...there's a potential crackhead. Friggin' smiley freak that he be.
#11 krownhunter07 Aug 25, 2008 20:32:30	...looking forward to it... hope there is a bit on Bladesingers.
#12 Cohen95 Aug 25, 2008 20:32:34	There's....two and a half hours...until that comes out (Five hours from the time you opened this thread). I mean, the early bird gets the worm and all, yeah, sure, but the second mouse gets the cheese. Unless they're acting like a team, of course.
#13 JudgeDookie Aug 25, 2008 20:36:13	There's....two and a half hours...until that comes out (Five hours from the time you opened this thread). I mean, the early bird gets the worm and all, yeah, sure, but the second mouse gets the cheese. Unless they're acting like a team, of course. He..he.. Dude, ISYN, that's my wallpaper at work. ;)
#14 naex Aug 25, 2008 21:12:51	Unless they're acting like a team, of course. That was great, best laugh I've had in days. Thank you
#15 Cohen95 Aug 25, 2008 21:22:43	That was great, best laugh I've had in days. Thank you I try. You tank the new articles, I'll toss a buff in when I can.
#16 18DELTA Aug 25, 2008 22:12:35	- 18DELTA
#17 SmartPaladin Aug 25, 2008 22:45:27	I try. You tank the new articles, I'll toss a buff in when I can. Tank? Tank?! Yay! Can I draw agro? :P True story: I once taunted a storm, and held it's agro for a week. My Mother and Sister still hit me whenever I see a storm cloud. :P
#18 JudgeDookie Aug 25, 2008 22:50:08	- 18DELTA You can do it!! You will do it or the U.S. will find you retarded and never find you of use again!!
#19 naex Aug 25, 2008 22:55:30	With all this build up, I just know they won't post it tonight...
#20 naex Aug 25, 2008 23:02:16	up now
#21 GreenKnight Aug 25, 2008 23:04:33	I wonder what the deal with these Feats are? Retributive Shield Student of Sword Magic
#22 naex Aug 25, 2008 23:07:18	I wonder what the deal with these Feats are? Retributive Shield Student of Sword Magic Student of Sword Mage looks like the multiclass feat.
#23 GreenKnight Aug 25, 2008 23:09:45	But which class? This is a Swordmage, after all. Maybe a different Wizard multiclass feat?
#24 naex Aug 25, 2008 23:13:49	But which class? This is a Swordmage, after all. Maybe a different Wizard multiclass feat? I still hadn't finished reading, so missed where it was listed, so my above thought on multiclass was probably wrong.
#25 krownhunter07 Aug 25, 2008 23:20:17	I wonder what the deal with these Feats are? Retributive Shield Student of Sword Magic If I had to guess, RS dose something to baddies on a hit/miss against either you or an ally. (heh, not much help, hmm) SotSM... no clue, maybe it's the feat that lets you have a spellbook? I'm liking the new powers... Multi-type powers are something I'm working on and the Vorpal doom... ouch and awesome.
#26 lord_karsus Aug 25, 2008 23:21:04	-naex, what's with you, man, tonight? You're 0-for-2 now. :P. -I'll have this moved to the other side of the fence.
#27 naex Aug 25, 2008 23:23:14	-naex, what's with you, man, tonight? You're 0-for-2 now. :P. -I'll have this moved to the other side of the fence. I have to make mistakes so I still seem human. or If I was always right, why would I need everyone here. :D:D:D:D
#28 lord_karsus Aug 25, 2008 23:27:14	-Understandable. I, myself, often have to keep that thin balance. -Let's see here...The article...Well, being as that I don't know/use the 4e rules, most of this article is pretty useless to me. Two things, though. I don't like how 'Eladrin' is being used in the place of Sun/Moon/Star Elves, in material that is Forgotten Realms-centric. And, what is that supposed to be a picture of? A Water Genasi?
#29 SmartPaladin Aug 25, 2008 23:30:41	Sweet... I wanna play a Swordmage! And, what is that supposed to be a picture of? A Water Genasi? Maybe it's a Earth Genasi? A crystal looking Earth Genasi...
#30 krownhunter07 Aug 25, 2008 23:32:08	Eladrin is the name used for Sun, Moon & Star elves since the return of the Feywild, so it makes sense that, after 100 years, it'd be somewhat common. Not to mention it makes it easier for noobs and all that jazz...
#31 naex Aug 25, 2008 23:34:00	-Understandable. I, myself, often have to keep that thin balance. -Let's see here...The article...Well, being as that I don't know/use the 4e rules, most of this article is pretty useless to me. Two things, though. I don't like how 'Eladrin' is being used in the place of Sun/Moon/Star Elves, in material that is Forgotten Realms-centric. And, what is that supposed to be a picture of? A Water Genasi? Easier to say Eladrin than Sun/Moon/Star Elves every time, and Elves no longer works because of the split. I like the fact that they made weapon powers implicit in the use of weapons as implements, that has been a major argument on the Character Building: Controllers threads.
#32 johnkretzer Aug 25, 2008 23:35:52	It is ok I guess...truth I found it as uninspiring as alot of excerpts from 4th edition. 2 things: 1)What the !@#$ is that a picture of? 2) I thought starting HP is x+Con Score not Con Mod.
#33 lord_karsus Aug 25, 2008 23:36:49	Eladrin is the name used for Sun, Moon & Star elves since the return of the Feywild, so it makes sense that, after 100 years, it'd be somewhat common. Easier to say Eladrin than Sun/Moon/Star Elves every time, and Elves no longer works because of the split. -Not the case, of course. Rich Baker has told us that, while the race uses the D&D mechanical stats for 'Eladrin', they are still known as and refer to themselves as Sun/Moon/Star Elves. -Concerning Bladesinging, the art was created by the Moon Elves, so it'd be of Moon Elven origin. Maybe it's a Earth Genasi? A crystal looking Earth Genasi... -Maybe. At first, I thought that was a Sahuagin, with their 'head crest', or whatever it's called that they have.
#34 krownhunter07 Aug 25, 2008 23:41:11	-Not the case, of course. Rich Baker has told us that, while the race uses the D&D mechanical stats for 'Eladrin', they are still known as and refer to themselves as Sun/Moon/Star Elves. Refering to themselves, yes. The rest of the world and (more importantly gamers new to the scene) not so much. It says in the FRCG that they are sometimes refered to as X, while still calling themselves Y, Z and cool.
#35 lord_karsus Aug 25, 2008 23:43:37	Refering to themselves, yes. The rest of the world and (more importantly gamers new to the scene) not so much. It says in the FRCG that they are sometimes refered to as X, while still calling themselves Y, Z and cool. -The rest of the world (as in Faerûn, Kara-Tur, that world) still knows them as Sun/Moon/Star Elves, too. If the French began calling themselves Gauls, I'd still call them French. Especially with only a single Human generation passing, and not even a single Elven generation! -Any idea with the picture, though? That's the more pressing issue right now.
#36 krownhunter07 Aug 25, 2008 23:50:23	-The rest of the world (as in Faerûn, Kara-Tur, that world) still knows them as Sun/Moon/Star Elves, too. If the French began calling themselves Gauls, I'd still call them French. Especially with only a single Human generation passing, and not even a single Elven generation! I agree, but again, they use the name noobs will understand. -Any idea with the picture, though? That's the more pressing issue right now. It is a Gensai for sure... Earth or Water, my money is on Water.
#37 lord_karsus Aug 25, 2008 23:57:54	I agree, but again, they use the name noobs will understand. -As I said in the Ask-The-Author Discussion Thread, a very dangerous trend to start. At what point are unique features in the setting "bulldozed" in favor of uniformity? It is a Gensai for sure... Earth or Water, my money is on Water. -Yeah, water makes sense, again, based on that I originally thought it was a Sahuagin.
#38 naex Aug 26, 2008 0:00:43	-As I said in the Ask-The-Author Discussion Thread, a very dangerous trend to start. At what point are unique features in the setting "bulldozed" in favor of uniformity? -Yeah, water makes sense, again, based on that I originally thought it was a Sahuagin. Part of how it goes, when I started playing rogues were thieves, mages were magic-users and elves were High, Grey and Wood. (well Valley and Grugarch (spelling?) were there too).
#39 GreenKnight Aug 26, 2008 0:45:53	I'm thinking that's a Stormsoul Genasi.
#40 splarg Aug 26, 2008 3:41:05	I'd pick it as a Genasai, I think now they aren't of a specific type. Although a Genasai character chooses one of the 5 abilities they can expend a feat to get other powers. So you can now have a fire/lightning Genasai who picks up the wind power on their next feat. Sorry if this doesn't make too much sense, I'm slightly drunk
#41 Iluvrien Aug 26, 2008 5:24:20	Part of how it goes, when I started playing rogues were thieves, mages were magic-users and elves were High, Grey and Wood. (well Valley and Grugarch (spelling?) were there too). Indeed, but how many of those were you told specifically by a Realms designer were going to be retained? A change in mechanics, no change in fluff we were told...
#42 banpai Aug 26, 2008 6:07:57	Ok I am a bit dissapointed, only two now powers and the writeup is actually incomplete, explanation for swordmage warding are missing (we had them in the LFR pdf). @Lord Karsus: While they decide the show the mechanical choice of s shielding swordmage (the tradition with elven roots - and there will be a Coronal Guard of Myth Drannor paragon path in it to protect our beloved lady coronal) there is also the offensive variant that came with the genasi from abeir - so the picture wasn´t all wrong. The really shocking about the picture isn´t the "hair" we have seen similar: the problem is that you see only after the second look that its a woman and I am not shure what to think about the ass :D
#43 18DELTA Aug 26, 2008 7:11:36	Indeed, but how many of those were you told specifically by a Realms designer were going to be retained? A change in mechanics, no change in fluff we were told... -I don't think Rich is on the FR Design Team so anything he says to us should be taken with a grain of salt. ;) 18DELTA
#44 Iluvrien Aug 26, 2008 7:45:50	-I don't think Rich is on the FR Design Team so anything he says to us should be taken with a grain of salt. ;) 18DELTA Well he is credited with being on the design team in the FRCG so...
#45 barthalas Aug 26, 2008 10:24:54	-Not the case, of course. Rich Baker has told us that, while the race uses the D&D mechanical stats for 'Eladrin', they are still known as and refer to themselves as Sun/Moon/Star Elves. Here what Rich responded to a post a made about this issue in the ask the author thread: The editors pushed hard to get FR as close to core D&D terminology as they could, so they tended to be really aggressive on calling sun elves, moon elves, etc. eladrin. I would've liked it a bit better if they'd let a few more of the existing names stand. In any event, in terms of mechanics, sun elf, moon elf, and star elf = eladrin. In terms of nomenclature, the FRCG/FRPG explain that those Tel'Quessir who've been in the Feywild all along called themselves eladrin, and since the Feywild has moved back "into phase" with Toril, the term eladrin has come to mean "those guys who are from the Feywild, or their kin here in Toril who are just like them." Pretty fiddly, to my mind, but I understand why they did it. Joe Noob opening up the FRCG is going to find race names he recognizes from the Player's Handbook, and that means better accessibility to the Realms. Hope this helps.
#46 barthalas Aug 26, 2008 10:27:57	Ok I am a bit dissapointed, only two now powers and the writeup is actually incomplete, explanation for swordmage warding are missing (we had them in the LFR pdf). @Lord Karsus: While they decide the show the mechanical choice of s shielding swordmage (the tradition with elven roots - and there will be a Coronal Guard of Myth Drannor paragon path in it to protect our beloved lady coronal) there is also the offensive variant that came with the genasi from abeir - so the picture wasn´t all wrong. The really shocking about the picture isn´t the "hair" we have seen similar: the problem is that you see only after the second look that its a woman and I am not shure what to think about the ass :D Okay, that hair has to go. I loved the look of the 3.x Genasi, not too crazy about the 4e version. Maybe I need to see more pictures and it will grow on me but for now.
#47 lord_karsus Aug 26, 2008 10:30:36	-I don't think Rich is on the FR Design Team so anything he says to us should be taken with a grain of salt. ;) -In all honesty, if this was the case (and it isn't), then he shouldn't be answering all those questions posed at him, if he doesn't have the actual official capability to answer them in an official manner. so the picture wasn´t all wrong. -I never said the picture is "wrong". I'm just trying to figure out what the picture is. Here what Rich responded to a post a made about this issue in the ask the author thread: -Rich has also said that Sun/Moon/Star Elves are 'Eladrin' in D&D stats, but they refer to themselves as Sun/Moon/Star Elves, and that in the Forgotten Realms, they are still Sun/Moon/Star Elves, being as that these things are Forgotten Realms specific. Iluvrien and myself doted on this a bit in the Ask-The-Author Discussion Thread, as I said before.
#48 barthalas Aug 26, 2008 10:56:08	-Rich has also said that Sun/Moon/Star Elves are 'Eladrin' in D&D stats, but they refer to themselves as Sun/Moon/Star Elves, and that in the Forgotten Realms, they are still Sun/Moon/Star Elves, being as that these things are Forgotten Realms specific. Iluvrien and myself doted on this a bit in the Ask-The-Author Discussion Thread, as I said before. Yes, it seems like Rich and the other designers have been pretty consistent about which stats they will be using, just not as much so as to what they will be calling themselves.
#49 Cohen95 Aug 26, 2008 11:33:24	-In all honesty, if this was the case (and it isn't), then he shouldn't be answering all those questions posed at him, if he doesn't have the actual official capability to answer them in an official manner. -I never said the picture is "wrong". I'm just trying to figure out what the picture is. -Rich has also said that Sun/Moon/Star Elves are 'Eladrin' in D&D stats, but they refer to themselves as Sun/Moon/Star Elves, and that in the Forgotten Realms, they are still Sun/Moon/Star Elves, being as that these things are Forgotten Realms specific. Iluvrien and myself doted on this a bit in the Ask-The-Author Discussion Thread, as I said before. I think the answer is in the middle. The ones from Feywild never established social bloodlines for Sun/Moon/Star, so they'd just call themselves Eladrin. The ones who were in Faerun all along, will still maintain themselves as Sun/Moon/Star. The ones who have intermingled/married, may go back to Eladrin in the same way americans, britains, and australians all call themselves "Caucasians" in addition to calling themselves american, british, and australian. OoC, it's easier to call them Eladrin, because it's less to type/say. In character, I'd wager it's up to the individual, as usual. I'm sure more than a few younger humans would resort to standard human simplification, and call them Eladrin, in the same way that fighters, TW Rangers, some Rogues, and probably some Warlords, may all be considered "warriors" to some people, seeing no relevant need to specify.
#50 suin_bahhar_02 Aug 26, 2008 11:41:37	The swordmage genasi has icecrystal-like hair, perhaps its an ice genasi. I think it might be a combination of the air and water soulparts. The other one looks more like a pure air genasi.
#51 aran_kell Aug 26, 2008 11:55:52	I thought starting HP is x+Con Score not Con Mod. Glad I wasn't the only one to notice the HP. If it's not fixed by release, that's getting houseruled. melee characters should not have lower HP than a wizard. otherwise, I'm looking forward to it.
#52 Iluvrien Aug 26, 2008 11:57:35	The ones who were in Faerun all along, will still maintain themselves as Sun/Moon/Star. Want to put money on that? Rich said that centralised conepting was being pushed on this one. The ones who have intermingled/married, may go back to Eladrin in the same way americans, britains, and australians all call themselves "Caucasians" in addition to calling themselves american, british, and australian. Um. No. Your example is like Evereskans, Evermeetians (yeah, I know) and Cormanthyri calling themselves Moon Elves. For americans, britons (not britains, no man is a country and all that) and australians to call themselves by their version of "Eladrin" we would have to wander around calling ourselves "human" not "caucasian". Eladrin/Elves is a mechanical specification such as Human/Chimps... To get to the "caucasian" title you need subraces which means Moon/Sun/Star and so on. Even in a multi-sentient-species world wandering around calling yourself Eladrin rather than Moon Elven or Evereskan just seems dumb. Not entirely unlike me wandering out to Japan and saying "Hi! I'm human!" ;)
#53 strayth Aug 26, 2008 12:03:24	Two things, though. I don't like how 'Eladrin' is being used in the place of Sun/Moon/Star Elves, in material that is Forgotten Realms-centric. I really hope this isn't true but someone quoted Baker and apparently it is. That's a really pitiful excuse for making / updating content.
#54 barthalas Aug 26, 2008 13:04:57	I really hope this isn't true but someone quoted Baker and apparently it is. That's a really pitiful excuse for making / updating content. According to RB (in a reply to a post I made) they where not REPLACING the 3.x names with Eladrin but that SOME (many? see below) are now referring to themselves as Eladrin. This topic is mentioned on page 5 of the FRCG. It's item 9 under the "Ten Important Facts" heading (which starts on page 4). It says (hope it's okay to post this): Ancient elven lineages have returned to Faerûn.With the reappearance of the Feywild, its natives have begun exploring the world again. These fey folk collectively call themselves eladrin, and many Faerûnian elves have also adopted this name for their lineage, though they have not forgotten their traditional cultural distinctions and names. In casual speech, the world “elven” collectively refers to the two branches of this fey people: elves and eladrin. Hope this helps clarify things...
#55 Iluvrien Aug 26, 2008 13:13:34	I love the resurgence of the Elven Peoples, not least because most settings paint them as declining, not in the strength of their days... And I also like stronger ties with the Feywild and a greater feeling of interconnectedness among the ancient kindreds... But if this comes at the cost that I think it does... I am going to be peeved. Only time (and the FRPG) will tell, I suppose.
#56 johnkretzer Aug 26, 2008 13:40:25	I love the resurgence of the Elven Peoples, not least because most settings paint them as declining, not in the strength of their days... The Elves have been resugening since the start of 3rd edition.
#57 sillaric_culdanin Aug 26, 2008 13:43:42	Also try to remember that Rich also mentioned in the Ask the Authors thread that the Editors pushed hard to use the term Eladrin as often as possible to keep the two FR sourcebooks (and I'm sure whatever DDi stuff they continue to produce) as accessible and useful to 'Core/Homebrew/Eberron' groups. I'm guessing that we'll only really see extensive use of the Sun/Moon/Star terms in novels... but its just a guess.
#58 lord_karsus Aug 26, 2008 13:56:12	...Evermeetians (yeah, I know)... -Everaer.
#59 barthalas Aug 26, 2008 14:02:21	But if this comes at the cost that I think it does... I am going to be peeved. Only time (and the FRPG) will tell, I suppose. What cost are you thinking of?
#60 banpai Aug 26, 2008 14:03:08	I guess Genasi got the tiefling treatment- now they no longer look like humans in cheap masks but expensive ones - I din´t like the tiefling change and it will be hard to sell me this one.
#61 krownhunter07 Aug 26, 2008 14:09:17	Like I was saying all along... Noobs need help, we don't... and it is very easy to learn the differences once they get the hang of it.
#62 lord_karsus Aug 26, 2008 14:18:20	What cost are you thinking of? -The the unique features of a setting are bulldozed in favor of blanket uniformity. Let's take the discussion back to the Ask-The-Author Discussion Thread where it began, huh?
#63 barthalas Aug 26, 2008 14:29:10	-The the unique features of a setting are bulldozed in favor of blanket uniformity. Let's take the discussion back to the Ask-The-Author Discussion Thread where it began, huh? Hmmm... I guess I didn't really see it as that drastic but I suppose it could be. I kind of just see it as some refer to themselves as Eladrin as a throwback to their earlier heritage (spurred on by the "return" of the Feywild). They would see themselves as both Sun/Moon/Star and Eladrin I think. I kind of harkin back to your example of Wood/Wild elves. I view the Eladrin nomenclature as the race designate and the Sun/Moon/Star as the cultural designate (even though it is indeed a retcon.) It also could be that they refer to themselves as Eladrin to outsiders but still use their Moon/Sun/Star notions among themselves. I hope WotC clarifies this at some point. I'd hate it to be that the name being used depends on the personal preference of the person writing the Novel/Article/Supplement. I agree, let's see if we can get Rich to elaborate on it when he returns form vaca.
#64 umbralknight Aug 26, 2008 14:46:46	Noobs need help, we don't... and it is very easy to learn the differences once they get the hang of it. Will it be though? I imagine that noobs will never know that the differences existed in the first place. Not that I'm planning on getting into an extenended discussion over this or anything. Just saying.
#65 Iluvrien Aug 26, 2008 14:54:50	The Elves have been resugening since the start of 3rd edition. Well, the Retreat ended with 3rd ed in, what... 1372? I personally believe that only in the latter stages of 3rd (1374+) with the retaking of Myth Drannor was there really anything large scale done to make this resurgence a reality rather than the statement the FRCS outlines. Although there may well have been other circumstances that I am unaware of at this time. If you then add over 100 years to that, then you have the chance to bring a large number of Elves back to the mainland. The process may have started in 3rd but the one (and only one) good thing about the time-jump for me is it allowed time to bring the Elves back in force. Whose Elves is another problem. -Everaer. Sorry, the correct noun deserted me there. I hope WotC clarifies this at some point. I just hope that they don't drop it altogether! I'd hate it to be that the name being used depends on the personal preference of the person writing the Novel/Article/Supplement. I agree, let's see if we can get Rich to elaborate on it when he returns form vaca. I don't think he will. I think we will be told to wait for the FRPG.
#66 johnkretzer Aug 26, 2008 15:02:42	Well, the Retreat ended with 3rd ed in, what... 1372? I personally believe that only in the latter stages of 3rd (1374+) with the retaking of Myth Drannor was there really anything large scale done to make this resurgence a reality rather than the statement the FRCS outlines. Although there may well have been other circumstances that I am unaware of at this time. If you then add over 100 years to that, then you have the chance to bring a large number of Elves back to the mainland. The process may have started in 3rd but the one (and only one) good thing about the time-jump for me is it allowed time to bring the Elves back in force. It actualy states that the Retreat is over in the 3rd edition FRCS book I believe. And they were moving back to Faerun proper before the whole Myth Drannor incident.
#67 Iluvrien Aug 26, 2008 15:35:29	It actualy states that the Retreat is over in the 3rd edition FRCS book I believe. And they were moving back to Faerun proper before the whole Myth Drannor incident. It does. I was actually referring to it when I said "the statement the FRCS outlines". I have it in front of me, page 14. They were moving back but it only says "some are returning". That sounds like a small movement. Especially over the few years that 3rd Ed actually lasted for. I was also talking about obvious signs of resurgence such as Cormanthyr and so on. These things take time, and sadly that is what the jump gave us in return for... well. Do I really need to go on?
#68 krownhunter07 Aug 26, 2008 17:06:04	Will it be though? I imagine that noobs will never know that the differences existed in the first place. Not that I'm planning on getting into an extenended discussion over this or anything. Just saying. Of course it will. It says in the FRCG what they're called by others and among themselves. Not to mention the boards here, books, DDI... I'm fairly certain it will still be known.
#69 Iluvrien Aug 26, 2008 18:19:46	Of course it will. It says in the FRCG what they're called by others and among themselves. Not to mention the boards here, books, DDI... I'm fairly certain it will still be known. Yes, we read in the FRCG what they are called by outsiders, and that they remember the names of their cultural lineages... but apart from a single reference to "the eladrin of Yuireshanyaar (sometimes referred to as star Elves)" I can't find another reference to the subraces in the FRCG. Not. One. So apparently they get to remember the names of their cultural lineages... but we don't. If they don't put these details front and center in the FRPG to balance this quite extraordinary lack... then where else will they put them? Both DDI and the novels are cited as being very optional. And yet this information that some (at least) would consider integral to Elven cultural identity is not present in the very book that is supposed to introduce it to new players... If not here, then where?
#70 GreenKnight Aug 26, 2008 18:37:45	That information will likely appear in the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide. Remember, this is the Campaign Guide. The focus is supposed to be on the setting, itself. The Player's Guide, on the other hand, will likely have the more indepth information for players, including extra details on player races.
#71 Iluvrien Aug 26, 2008 19:23:53	That information will likely appear in the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide. Remember, this is the Campaign Guide. The focus is supposed to be on the setting, itself. The Player's Guide, on the other hand, will likely have the more indepth information for players, including extra details on player races. Emphasis mine. So you don't consider the cultural traditions of one of the major races in the Realms to be part of the setting itself? At least in comparison (refers to FRCG) to Circle Magic? Storied magical items that the PCs may never even hear about? the bridges in Akanul?
#72 18DELTA Aug 26, 2008 19:28:06	-Could someone start a seperate thread so this thread can get back on topic. ;) Thank you and have a nice day. 18DELTA
#73 Iluvrien Aug 26, 2008 19:40:32	-Could someone start a seperate thread so this thread can get back on topic. ;) Thank you and have a nice day. 18DELTA Sorry 18Delta, I hadn't meant to derail quite this badly. I will stop this line of discussion. No point in starting a new thread though really.
#74 GreenKnight Aug 26, 2008 20:35:39	Emphasis mine. So you don't consider the cultural traditions of one of the major races in the Realms to be part of the setting itself? Yes, but that stuff has more impact on the players side. You're going to have to put information for the PC races in that book, so why not put all of it there rather than dividing it up between two books? The idea is for the Player's Guide to be pretty much all a player needs. Putting information on the background of whatever PC race he chooses in the Campaign Guide defeats that purpose. At least in comparison (refers to FRCG) to Circle Magic? Storied magical items that the PCs may never even hear about? the bridges in Akanul? If not in the CG, then where would this go? The PG? It makes no sense to put Rituals which're intended for use by the opponents of the PC's in the Player's Guide. That is information, though, which is useful for the DM, which is the main audience the book is directed at. The same goes for those relics, which the PC's aren't meant to have heard about.
#75 Iluvrien Aug 26, 2008 21:16:47	I've made a thread to continue this discussion (my second ever. Whoo!). You can find it Here. Sorry again Naex!
#76 lord_karsus Aug 26, 2008 21:28:47	-The Ask-The Author Discussion thread was good enough, but...A new thread. Woo hoo.
#77 manekular Aug 26, 2008 22:37:26	As has already been mentioned earlier, they have a lousy editor for this article since HP is screwed up (e.g. 15 + Con mod vs. X + Con score). I also find it a little conspicuous that, unlike prior class previews, this one is missing a full powers list from level 1 to 30 as well as all the class features and options available compared to the others so far (aka artificer and illusionist). This is just plain sloppy if you ask me.
#78 naex Aug 26, 2008 22:40:10	As has already been mentioned earlier, they have a lousy editor for this article since HP is screwed up (e.g. 15 + Con mod vs. X + Con score). I also find it a little conspicuous that, unlike prior class previews, this one is missing a full powers list from level 1 to 30 as well as all the class features and options available compared to the others so far (aka artificer and illusionist). This is just plain sloppy if you ask me. It's an excerpt from the player's guide, not the whole class. Just something to make you drool for the real thing in a few weeks.
#79 askanipsion Aug 26, 2008 23:04:53	I wonder what the deal with these Feats are? Retributive Shield Student of Sword Magic Wow I missed that the first time I read the article....I think I was so disgusted that nothing really new was presented except for very high level powers. I would have liked to see the multiclass feat or additional low level powers. Both sound cool....why couldn't they have at least posted information about one of them?
#80 lord_karsus Aug 26, 2008 23:10:04	Maybe it's a Earth Genasi? A crystal looking Earth Genasi... -You can mix-and-match now, right? Maybe Earth and Water together, to make it crystalline? Or, Air and Water together, to make it ice-like.
#81 GreenKnight Aug 26, 2008 23:30:44	Student of Sword Magic I'm hoping this is a variant Wizard multiclass Feat ideal for Swordmages. It might be something else, but the "Student" part makes it sound like a multiclass feat. I hope it is, anyway, as Arcane Initiate isn't particularly appealing (you automatically get the Arcana skill, so getting Arcana from that feat is pretty well pointless). Besides, I remember hearing about variant multiclass feats which give you different abilities, so I'd like to see an example of that, already. What I'd like is a feat that, say, allows you to pick any skill from the Wizard skill list as a trained skill and gives you Wizard Cantrips. Just one example.
#82 krownhunter07 Aug 26, 2008 23:33:37	Again, I think it's the feat that allows Swordmage's to use a spellbook... extra attack powers and a place for rituals if you get them.
#83 GreenKnight Aug 26, 2008 23:37:16	Good point, there. I'd forgotten that they didn't start off with a spellbook. A feat for selecting cantrips would sure be nice, though. And hopefully when it comes to the skill, it'll allow the player to choose any skill from the Wizard spell list as a trained skill, instead of being stuck with Arcana.
#84 askanipsion Aug 27, 2008 17:11:07	-In all honesty, if this was the case (and it isn't), then he shouldn't be answering all those questions posed at him, if he doesn't have the actual official capability to answer them in an official manner. Aye Rich also said Sehanine was an aspect of Selune but NOWHERE does it say that in the Campaign book. If it were so, wouldn't it had been mentioned next to the revelations about the other 2 "imposter" goddesses?? But yet Angharradh is still around. I am choosing to believe the Selune-Sehanine is not canon until I see otherwise. I think Angharradh is really Sehanine.
#85 krownhunter07 Aug 27, 2008 18:11:34	Mayhap Rich explained how it didn't make sense and they chose not to include that little nugget in the book.
#86 lord_karsus Aug 27, 2008 19:31:18	Aye Rich also said Sehanine was an aspect of Selune but NOWHERE does it say that in the Campaign book. If it were so, wouldn't it had been mentioned next to the revelations about the other 2 "imposter" goddesses?? But yet Angharradh is still around. I am choosing to believe the Selune-Sehanine is not canon until I see otherwise. I think Angharradh is really Sehanine. -For someone divorced from the history and continuity of the setting, none of that matters.
#87 xFallenAngel Aug 28, 2008 14:21:52	Before anyone else speculates on what type the two Genasi's in the currently available pictures are...it's blatantly obvious that both are Stormsouls, what with the lightning markings and all that. ;)
#88 banpai Aug 28, 2008 15:35:13	Before anyone else speculates on what type the two Genasi's in the currently available pictures are...it's blatantly obvious that both are Stormsouls, what with the lightning markings and all that. ;) Well the Genasi from the swordmage preview yes looks like water/thunder but the other one looks like earth fire to me.
#89 lord_karsus Aug 28, 2008 21:40:38	Before anyone else speculates on what type the two Genasi's in the currently available pictures are...it's blatantly obvious that both are Stormsouls, what with the lightning markings and all that. ;) -It's not blatantly obvious if we're all sitting here scratching our heads. ;)
#90 xFallenAngel Aug 29, 2008 5:30:49	Yes it is :P I mean seriously, the only way you could even argue it was another type was if you had no idea that Stormsouls exist now and only know the old standard types...and even then the only type that would be even remotely applicable would be air. That in itself doesn't make the it any less obvious though, it just means you're out of the loop on Genasi info. When the FRPG comes out and these two are indeed not Stormsouls(extremely unlikely as it may be) but something else, feel free to ridicule me, but until then I still say it's really bloody obvious that they're Stormsouls. In fact, this thread is the only place where I've seen people try and speculate on what type they are, most everywhere else(for example other RPG forums) everyone automatically assumes they are Stormsouls. *shrugs*
#91 banpai Aug 29, 2008 6:50:28	Yes it is :P I mean seriously, the only way you could even argue it was another type was if you had no idea that Stormsouls exist now and only know the old standard types...and even then the only type that would be even remotely applicable would be air. That in itself doesn't make the it any less obvious though, it just means you're out of the loop on Genasi info. When the FRPG comes out and these two are indeed not Stormsouls(extremely unlikely as it may be) but something else, feel free to ridicule me, but until then I still say it's really bloody obvious that they're Stormsouls. In fact, this thread is the only place where I've seen people try and speculate on what type they are, most everywhere else(for example other RPG forums) everyone automatically assumes they are Stormsouls. *shrugs* Well we have only seen 2 genasi yet and those lines on their skin could be an universal trait. I am not even really shure that they don´t mix much. The living forgotten realms pdf mentions matching pairs IIRC. Still of stormsouls have no ass.....what a sad day for my rogue.
#92 lord_karsus Aug 29, 2008 10:21:35	In fact, this thread is the only place where I've seen people try and speculate on what type they are, most everywhere else(for example other RPG forums) everyone automatically assumes they are Stormsouls. *shrugs* -That, again, demonstrates that it's not blatantly obvious. ;)
#93 lord_karsus Aug 29, 2008 10:23:40	Still of stormsouls have no ass.....what a sad day for my rogue. -Why...are you looking...? -If you want your Rogue to 'have an ass', all you need to do is go on a quest and find that noble knight, Sir Mix-A-Lot, and convince him to perform the 'Got Back' ritual on you. Bada Bing, Bada Boom, problem solved.
#94 banpai Aug 29, 2008 14:03:53	-Why...are you looking...? -If you want your Rogue to 'have an ass', all you need to do is go on a quest and find that noble knight, Sir Mix-A-Lot, and convince him to perform the 'Got Back' ritual on you. Bada Bing, Bada Boom, problem solved. Well I am not really an ass (man) myself, and I first thought that the genasi was´t female, but once I saw her front her back seemed kinda ........... oh well you got me, I just thought it was funny.