AND...
~spoiler~
Opinions on SSzass Tam's deal with Bane? I bet, 10-1, he gets out of it. Opinions?
That deal had a duration of 1000 years. 4e only has a 100 year jump. Bane and Szass don't have to tango for 900 more.
Though, I agree with you--he'll probably get out of it.
That deal had a duration of 1000 years. 4e only has a 100 year jump. Bane and Szass don't have to tango for 900 more.
Thats the set-up for 5e - it will begin in the year 2375 DR. :P
Once WotC buys the Midnight setting, they'll be all ready for 5e and Tammy Thay's world take-over.
He's gone from 'Useable Villain' to 'setting-Munchkin'.
maybe Larloch kinda liked him
maybe Larloch kinda liked him
-Larloch probably has his phylactery.
Holy shite--are you actually animated?!!
-What do you mean? Do I have my own cartoon show? I wish I did, but I don't.
Even if you dislike 4FR, pick it (it's set in 1478). It's a great read, and that's what really matters.
Even if you dislike 4FR, pick it (it's set in 1478).
Wow, the whole book?
How's this? Szass Tam has run out of living beings to empower his necrotic rituals, so he taps into the plane of Faerie for some direct 'Life force' (or whatever), and winds up recruiting Unseelie Fey to his cause.
Now we have Tammy Fey. :D
Something like a Shade Gnome with the Harlequin class applied.
Wow, the whole book?
Question repeated. How, why and what?
I just got an idea for a mini-project for the Fey thread -
How's this? Szass Tam has run out of living beings to empower his necrotic rituals, so he taps into the plane of Faerie for some direct 'Life force' (or whatever), and winds up recruiting Unseelie Fey to his cause.
Now we have Tammy Fey. :D
Something like a Shade Gnome with the Harlequin class applied.
Did you just smoke two joints, make out with a kitten, and have a flash back to Puff the Magic Dragon from a younger aged viewing?
That's just sick.
Tam uses some spells that are not in 4e, but are 3e icons. I really miss those spells in 4e.
The final battle was actually quite 'strange', since it was 'you get hit once and you die' for the zulkirs, and 'you get blasted by nuclear weapons and yet you live' for the lich.
So, what do you think is gonna happen when Unholy [Haunted Lands book 3] hits the shelves?
As far as I'm concerned, it will sit on the bookshelf. I really disliked book 1, and book 2 was even worse.
As far as I'm concerned, it will sit on the bookshelf. I really disliked book 1, and book 2 was even worse.
Do you even exist anymore?
Wait....
Do I?
---
What exactly turned you off about it?
Disclaimer: I'm me. Ignore the powerful acorn until I get my neuron back.
As for Bane, I hope Szass Tam tears out his godhood and uses it as fuel for one of his random magical experiments - one that he knows is going to fail and isn't worth bothering with
Do you even exist anymore?
I post, therefore I am. :P
Wait....
Do I?
You might be a figment of the imagination of Beejebus, or you might be real and have imagined Beejebus, it's impossible to tell without additional empirical evidence, though.
What exactly turned you off about it?
The plots, main and secondary, seemed extremely forced and often made me roll my eyes in disbelief. The unfolding of events didn't seem natural at all, but very plot device driven. For example, the main character at times seemed -incredibly- stupid (solo attacking a caravan of Red Wizards) and yet -extremely- lucky (being able to escape time and again). But when it came to actually making any inroads against his enemies, he failed on all counts. It was like being in an adventure with a DM who had a MaryStu and his own "perfect storyline" and being painfully aware that you're only there as window dressing. I lost interest halfway through the first book.
As for Bane, I hope Szass Tam tears out his godhood and uses it as fuel for one of his random magical experiments - one that he knows is going to fail and isn't worth bothering with
Can I tear out your spleen when it is all said and done? That would probably be pretty cool.
I post, therefore I am. :P
I poop! So, therefore, I am, too! Right?!! :D
You might be a figment of the imagination of Beejebus, or you might be real and have imagined Beejebus, it's impossible to tell without additional empirical evidence, though.
Start CENSORED with my Beejebuz, and I’ll CENSORED your shoe, then CENSORED that bunny, whether you like it or not!! Don’t even make me CENSORED that CENSORED lawn gnome!!
The plots, main and secondary, seemed extremely forced and often made me roll my eyes in disbelief. The unfolding of events didn't seem natural at all, but very plot device driven. For example, the main character at times seemed -incredibly- stupid (solo attacking a caravan of Red Wizards) and yet -extremely- lucky (being able to escape time and again). But when it came to actually making any inroads against his enemies, he failed on all counts. It was like being in an adventure with a DM who had a MaryStu and his own "perfect storyline" and being painfully aware that you're only there as window dressing. I lost interest halfway through the first book.
Oh, this I stated a while back. Did you read the second novel or just give up after the first?
Yep, the whole book.
Well, thanks for clarifying.
The plots, main and secondary, seemed extremely forced and often made me roll my eyes in disbelief. The unfolding of events didn't seem natural at all, but very plot device driven.
Yeah, that's how I feel about a lot of the recent books that are meant to "explain the transition."
Oh, this I stated a while back. Did you read the second novel or just give up after the first?
I skimmed through parts of the 2nd book while lounging at Borders. Several things were immediately irritating to me:
* It starts after a bit of a time jump, and several interesting things had happened off page.
* The descriptions of the Spellplague and Mystra's death (my only reason for reading it at that point) were incredibly sparse and therefore disappointing.
* The "hero" gained a number of cool toys and friends purely by accident (no effort, just plot devices) yet was no closer to reaching his goal. Nor did he appear to have any real plan toward his goal (which was presumably saving his girl-turned-vampire). Frankly, instead of identifying with the "hero" I really wanted to see someone choke him to death. Given that this was the author's favorite character, the probability of this actually happening seemed minimal.
So I put it down and walked away.
Plague of Spells has the same problem for me. The main character seems like the author's favorite PC come to life, where everything good happens for him (though there may be some emo-style sadness going on) but he ends up with very shiny toys and a trophy NPC wife.
Obviously you ignore my important posts and just do what you do.
I explained this crap earlier to protect you from it.
Um..no CENSORED.
Obviously you ignore my important posts and just do what you do.
I explained this crap earlier to protect you from it.
What'd I miss? Should I scroll up or something? It was in English, right? ;) :P :D
btw is that urine on your "Censored" LAwn gnome??
What'd I miss? Should I scroll up or something? It was in English, right? ;) :P :D
I always post in English. Unless, that is, I am forced to misspell the English language in order to express curse words forbidden by the new ORC patrol.
And, as I receive an email a day from them lately, I've been forced to move on to just CENSORSHIP.
---
My post(s) was months back. I guess you were too busy whipping me and subjecting my subconscious to YouTube to actually pay attention.
Bahaumuts Fangs, that was funny.
btw is that urine on your "Censored" LAwn gnome??
A cupcake, sicko. Anything light, fluffy and good for kids is also forbidden for my vocabulary, you CENSORED CENSORED.
Come. Pretend you are a lawn gnome for me.
And, as I receive an email a day from them lately, I've been forced to move on to just CENSORSHIP.
An email a day? Why you naughty, naughty boy!
My post(s) was months back. I guess you were too busy whipping me and subjecting my subconscious to YouTube to actually pay attention.
It can happen again, you know. :D
I wonder what Szass Tam would say about you and your daily emails? ;)
I wonder what Szass Tam would say about you and your daily emails? ;)
Let's face it. That statement held no concern for Szass Tam or what he would say.
You just want to pretend you are being on topic while trying to lure me back into your den of sexual screwed up evil.
Baby. You want me.
Let's face it. That statement held no concern for Szass Tam or what he would say.
You just want to pretend you are being on topic while trying to lure me back into your den of sexual screwed up evil.
Baby. You want me.
Pish posh! I am always on topic! :P Szass Tam and four out of five exarchs agree! And get back into the leather pants!
Did you just smoke two joints, make out with a kitten, and have a flash back to Puff the Magic Dragon from a younger aged viewing?
That's just sick.
No...
FR is my only current 'vice'. :P
And they would look something like this -
Pish posh! I am always on topic! :P Szass Tam and four out of five exarchs agree! And get back into the leather pants!
Only if you put that applebutt back into the spandex. I’m tired of this “Let’s play Barbie” crap.
-What is that, and where is it from?
Smoke two joints, make out with a kitten, and have a flash back to Puff the Magic Dragon and then you’ll know.
-What is that, and where is it from?
I found it on some site (you can break-apart the url to see where), but I didn't even bother reading the topic - I only went looking for a picture of a 'Harlequin', and that clown-faced Imp seemed very appropriate for what I was describing - Tammy Fey. :D
Normally I only find pictures of the Joker's main squeeze when I use that search word...
Hmmm.. the more I think about it, the more I'm loving the idea of 'Evil Clown' fey.
Edit: Included a link, to save anyone the trouble - it doesn't look very interesting though. The picture is the best part.
Hmm...we started off with Szass Tam and ended up with a mix of Tina Fey and Batman... A.D.D. much?
I ADD all the time. 4+3 is 5 and 6+17 is -56.
I'm a master at this game--bring it on!!!
Szass Tam was always annoying... it's just that it is no longer in a 'good way' (from a DM's point of view - I would no longer use him now).
He's gone from 'Useable Villain' to 'setting-Munchkin'.
I find him the complete opposite, I actually have quite an interest in actually using Szass Tam and Thay in particular. There is already a bunch of "High level Wizard evil bastards" in Netheril if I so desired to do so. I happen to like Szass Tam more or less leading his giant army of Undead for the express purpose of capturing more living lands to perform his ritual again.
Of course, having read portions of this book I have to agree it's pretty bad. The main "hero" is a complete tool.
I find him the complete opposite, I actually have quite an interest in actually using Szass Tam and Thay in particular. There is already a bunch of "High level Wizard evil bastards" in Netheril if I so desired to do so. I happen to like Szass Tam more or less leading his giant army of Undead for the express purpose of capturing more living lands to perform his ritual again.
Of course, having read portions of this book I have to agree it's pretty bad. The main "hero" is a complete tool.
I agree with your view on Szass Tam.
I would still ask everyone who they think the hero is. I saw nothing clear, cut and defined in my reading.
Drizzt is nothing more then a muderous bas-something.
I don't know what you call someone who goes sneaking around slittling the throats of a thousand people, but I would call him a serial killer and a mass-murderer.
I find a lot of the FR books re that way.
Drizzt is nothing more then a muderous bas-something.
I don't know what you call someone who goes sneaking around slittling the throats of a thousand people, but I would call him a serial killer and a mass-murderer.
-In his defense, some of them did attack him first.
I mean, how the hell can PC's be hero's if we have one in a novel?
That may have been the purpose of RLB's writing--there are no hero's. As it was the first written word that herald in 4e, that might just be the point.
-I haven't read any of those books...Are the "anti-hero" type protagonists "pushed" as heroes, or are they "pushed" as protagonists who are indeed evil (or at least ambiguous)?
-I haven't read any of those books...Are the "anti-hero" type protagonists "pushed" as heroes, or are they "pushed" as protagonists who are indeed evil (or at least ambiguous)?
I only read the first novel in the series, and going by that I'd say the author wanted all the characters to be either evil or morally ambiguous (or just plain indifferent). I can't recall any characters who were unvarnished examples of "good."
I only read the first novel in the series, and going by that I'd say the author wanted all the characters to be either evil or morally ambiguous (or just plain indifferent). I can't recall any characters who were unvarnished examples of "good."
-Were they evil, or morally ambiguous, with the author (seemingly) trying to portray them as "heroes" as in, say, the War of the Spider Queen books? Or, did he make no qualms about them being evil, or morally ambiguous?
Or, did he make no qualms about them being evil, or morally ambiguous?
This one.
-I haven't read any of those books...Are the "anti-hero" type protagonists "pushed" as heroes, or are they "pushed" as protagonists who are indeed evil (or at least ambiguous)?
That’s not what I was speaking about.
As the PC’s were “never the hero’s” in 3e, the point might have just to been not to let any character get the limelight for too long.
I only read the first novel in the series, and going by that I'd say the author wanted all the characters to be either evil or morally ambiguous (or just plain indifferent). I can't recall any characters who were unvarnished examples of "good."
I believe the point was to truly describe the land of Thay and to set a pretense for the explanation of why they were so easily willing to accept the rising use of undead. Thay was a land of evil. Period.
Moral sanction does not exist with the drow either. And not everyone can be Drizzt.
I believe the point was to truly describe the land of Thay and to set a pretense for the explanation of why they were so easily willing to accept the rising use of undead. Thay was a land of evil. Period.
That's definitely a plausible explanation.
Why the hell are you so accommodating?
Wait...I said that, didn't I?
Yes. Plausible. Completely. And probably fact.
-I haven't read any of those books...Are the "anti-hero" type protagonists "pushed" as heroes, or are they "pushed" as protagonists who are indeed evil (or at least ambiguous)?
To get back around to this point, they are neither. They all have their own agenda's that coincide with the events they end up a part of. They are neutral as far as I can see. Sort of riding the wave in the hopes it will lead to their own personal fulfillment.
As for the protagonists/main characters I found it quite refreshing that they were morally ambiguous for the most part.
no one was supposed to know that Szass Tam is a lich, it would be better that it stayed that way, Stealthy Tam
Not when it comes to a point where fear, power and influence mean everything in the conquest.
this way he looks human and has the fear aura
what influence would a corpse have?
-I don't know. I mean, if a walking and talking corpse rang my doorbell right now, and told me something, I'd probably listen to it.
regular walking corpses don't inspire much fear in Thay, by becoming a corpse and not remaining in perfect Mulan form, Tam would inspire much more ridicule than respect
Szass Tam, by revealing to the other zulkirs that he's so different would increase the chances of all of them allying against him, so he would lose power and influence
-I haven't read that trilogy yet (I don't plan on doing so, either)...How many Zukirs are still alive, and how many are dead?
I haven't read that trilogy yet (I don't plan on doing so, either)...How many Zukirs are still alive, and how many are dead?
At the beginning of the third novel Lauzoril, Lallara, and Nevron are the only original Zulkirs still alive, with the exception of Szass Tam or course Samas Kul was elevated to Zulkir of Transmutation as well. Speaking of this trilogy, does anybody know what kind of undead Bareris has been turned into? The third book hasn't stated so far, and I don't remember the second book saying anything. Just curious.
At the beginning of the third novel Lauzoril, Lallara, and Nevron are the only original Zulkirs still alive, with the exception of Szass Tam or course Samas Kul was elevated to Zulkir of Transmutation as well. Speaking of this trilogy, does anybody know what kind of undead Bareris has been turned into? The third book hasn't stated so far, and I don't remember the second book saying anything. Just curious.
At the end, Tam is the only one left. Also, Bareris' type is not known... I think he may have been a unique, once in a lifetime undead type.
At the end, Tam is the only one left. Also, Bareris' type is not known... I think he may have been a unique, once in a lifetime undead type.
Yeah. As his incorporation with the society he was normally apart of couldn't place him....
If Szass Tam turns out to be the uber-villian everybody loves to hate, then maybe when WotC brings out D&D 5e, the world-changing catastrophe will include Bane coming back to take his price from the bargain with Szass Tam, and getting into another knockdown dragout brawl with him, ... and not winning.
Not that Tam is going to wipe Bane out, but Bane might be so beat-up that the other gods of Evil can tackle the cripple.
Then again, Tam wants to become a rival to Lord Ao, who can mess with deities with ease. Hmmm ... newly-apotheosis-ed Szass Tam negotiating with Loviatar to determine their respective spheres of influence.
metagaming and speculation without knowledge:
If Szass Tam turns out to be the uber-villian everybody loves to hate, then maybe when WotC brings out D&D 5e, the world-changing catastrophe will include Bane coming back to take his price from the bargain with Szass Tam, and getting into another knockdown dragout brawl with him, ... and not winning.
Not that Tam is going to wipe Bane out, but Bane might be so beat-up that the other gods of Evil can tackle the cripple.
Then again, Tam wants to become a rival to Lord Ao, who can mess with deities with ease. Hmmm ... newly-apotheosis-ed Szass Tam negotiating with Loviatar to determine their respective spheres of influence.
-None of that even has to "wait" until 5e.
You know you'd think Kelemvor would start an crusade to wipe out Thay since he's into destroying all Undead and all.
-There's political ramifications.
I see so it's more like wait for Tam to start making other places then Thay an undead realm? Then can he act?
-Or, he doesn't act, period, because doing so would hurt him more than it helps.
So he becomes a hypocrite then? Telling his followers to go out and destroy undead but not Szass Tam's undead?
-Why do the Lords of Waterdeep- led by a Paladin- allow Skullport, a bastion of evil, to exist below Waterdeep? Because, ultimately, there's more to lose than gain, if something was done about it. Politically, it would be a bad move. The same concept applies. If Kelemvor and his followers actively go picking fights with Szass Tam, it stands possible that there is more to lose than there is to gain. This is why countries don't randomly go out and attack other countries, when they disagree with each other. Sometimes they do, but cost-effectiveness is always measured, and in most cases, it is decided that conflict is counter-effective to the ultimate goal.
If there is a reason--and I don't personally see one--I don't see it as political, but as a deitific thing. If Kelevmore treads on Bane in any way, then there are some major issues created within the current pantheon (if that's even what it is called anymore).
-I relegate all divine going-ons and interactions and so on as 'divine politics', and call it a day.
-I relegate all divine going-ons and interactions and so on as 'divine politics', and call it a day.
Oh!
That's how it goes?!!
Fine. Off to Burritoville with me.
(snip)Not that Tam is going to wipe Bane out, but Bane might be so beat-up that the other gods of Evil can tackle the cripple.
Then again, Tam wants to become a rival to Lord Ao, who can mess with deities with ease. Hmmm ... newly-apotheosis-ed Szass Tam negotiating with Loviatar to determine their respective spheres of influence.
Another option is Pandorym from 3.5E's Elder Evils (but who is also explicitly mentioned in the FRCG). Pandorym could wipe out one, some or all of the deities of the Realms. If Szass Tam were smart, which he is, and magically powerful, which is also is, he might try and release Pandorym after first binding him/it to his will.
And there you have the endgame of a campaign starting in High Imaskar and stretching all the way to 30th level.
PS: Why is there so much threadcrapping in this and other threads?
PS: Why is there so much threadcrapping in this and other threads?
It's a common sight in this area of the boards. Ask it to stop in your threads, report if you wish. But, know that the people here do not take kindly to having their thread craping reported or questioned. Don't ask me why though...
Realistically, Szass Tam had little to no hold on Bane. He enticed Bane and got the short end of the stick. Most likely, Tam is going to mount a force to invade a neighbor, then try his uber-end-all spell again.
I highly doubt Bane's priests will be honor bond to help him try again, so it's only his undead and loyal followers. Hell, Banites might actually work against him now that their god knows what is planed (and we all know Bane wants a lich plaything).
if Bane wanted lich playthings he would have kept the baneliches
Maybe he has some? Aside from that, having Szass Tam for eternity has to be appealing to Bane. Why else would he have made the deal?
PS: Why is there so much threadcrapping in this and other threads?
It’s love, my man—nothing more! :D
Maybe he has some? Aside from that, having Szass Tam for eternity has to be appealing to Bane. Why else would he have made the deal?
If so, then their purpose has changed.
-As I recall, many Baneliches were killed by Iyachtu Xvim and Cyric, but something like 30(?) survived at least to 1,372 DR.
As far as I am concerned, they all should have been instantly destroyed upon his return.
As far as I am concerned, they all should have been instantly destroyed upon his return.
-Yeah, one of the thousands of ways it could have been explained that Bane returned was that he sucked all of the energies from the various Baneliches out there.
-That would also give a tedious connection to Szass Tam and Bane, as well.