The 5E Forgotten Realms Pantheon
I was asked to start a separate thread on this, so ok. 
From what we’ve heard all of the gods will be coming back in 5E. If that happens then that’s going to create a bit of a mess as some of those dead gods have portfolios which are now owned by other gods. Will they be assumed to share that portfolio, or will the old rules still be in force and will gods only be able to share portfolios so long as at least one of them is a Demigod/Exarch? So because I just like making lists (What? I find typing to be a relaxing exercise), I thought I’d comb through the Forgotten Realms deity list as best as I could and make adjustments here and there to some gods in order to make the whole pantheon fit together.
Note: This is done with the assumption that the previous godly rank system (Greater God, God, Exarch), will still be in place as well as the godly dominions (I personally prefer Exarch over Demigod as I wouldn’t mind seeing the occasional classical mythological style Demigod appear).
Amaunator (Greater God)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Bureaucracy, Civilization, Contracts, Law, the Midday Sun, Order, Rulership
Lathander (Greater God)
Neutral Good
Portfolios: Athletics, Birth, Creativity, Dawn, Renewal, Self-Perfection, Spring, Vitality, Youth
Myrkul (Greater God)
Neutral Evil
Portfolios: Autumn, Corruption, Decay, Dusk, Exhaustion, Old Age, Parasites, Undeath, Wasting
Amaunator shifts to Lawful Neutral, gains the Civilization portfolio, and his Sun Portfolio shifts to the Midday Sun. Lathander returns exactly as he was. Myrkul regains Autumn from Mielikki, all of his old unused portfolios, as well as Undeath.
All three are sun gods, but they represent different facets of the sun given their respective portfolios (Dawn, Midday, Dusk), not to mention the rest of their portfolios. Lathander is the god of birth, of new beginnings, of constant change. His role is to encourage creation, but will eventually abandon one of his creations in favor of something new. He’s the rising sun and so must always rise. Amaunator is the god of order, constancy, and the status quo. He’ll take that which Lathander creates and preserve it, keeping it forever the same, never changing. He’s the sun fixed at its highest point in the sky, unmoving, unchanging. Myrkul, however, is the god of decay and corruption. What Amaunator preserves he’ll want to tear down. He’s the setting sun, and as such Myrkul wants to see that things always come to an end, preferably a destructive one. All three feed off each other. Lathander creates, Amaunator protects, and Myrkul destroys, as Lathander looks to the ruins of what Myrkul’s destroyed and from there begins anew. That, I think, would be a new and interesting take on the concept of the Sun God.
Potential Servants of Myrkul
I imagine Myrkul building himself a new Bone Castle out in the Astral Sea. He may no longer be the God of Death but he would still be a terrifying figure. He could share that domain with several other gods.
Mask (God)
Neutral Evil
Portfolios: Intrigue, Shadows, Thievery, Thieves
Bhaal (God)
Lawful Evil
Portfolios: Assassination, Assassins, Blood, Poison, Violence
Moander (Exarch)
Chaotic Evil
Portfolios: Corruption, Decay, Rot, Rotting Death
Mask, upon his return to life, should regain the portfolio of Intrigue from Cyric. Assuming Gods still have to shelter in the domains of Greater Gods, staying with Myrkul is as good a place as any. One could see Myrkul allowing Mask free reign and not really being a threat to him (At least not how Cyric or Shar would be a threat to him), as Myrkul would probably find Mask’s activities amusing.
Bhaal can lay claim to the portfolio of Poison from Sseth, Zehir, Talona, or whomever else has it. Add in Assassination, Blood, and Violence, and he could come back as the god of assassins. Murder and Death would be nice for him, but they’re better off in the hands of Cyric and Kelemvor, so Bhaal can make do with the lesser portfolio of Assassination, which has a narrower focus than the more encompassing portfolio of Murder. Of course he could have both if he was an Exarch, but I personally believe that a more powerful Bhaal, one who’s closer to being on an even keel with both Bane and Myrkul without quite being there, is a better idea. In any case, I sincerely hope that the rumors are true and that all of the gods come back, because I’m eager to see the Dead Three together again. There’s so much regarding their mortal history which has yet to be explored, and I hope that the return of both Myrkul and Bhaal will serve as an impetus to the Realms development team to expand on that history some more (And yep, I read that recent Dragon, or was it Dungeon, article which shed some more light on their mortal lives).
As for Moander, as an Exarch he can share the portfolios of Corruption and Decay with Myrkul, while still maintaining his separate portfolios of Rot and Rotting Death. There’s no great need for him to be anything more than an Exarch, though. Though if he were to be a God than the portfolio of Rot alone would more than suffice for him.
DWEOMERHEART
Mystra (Greater God)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Magic, the Weave
Azuth (Exarch)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Mages, Spellcasters, Wizards
Savras (Exarch)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Divination, Fate, Truth
No surprises here save for Mystra’s alignment change, although my hope is that it’s the Midnight personality which is resurrected, if for no other reason than my distaste for the way she was killed. I strongly dislike the idea of Midnight being murdered by essentially what was her stalker. It’s way too much like a Lifetime movie, and a disgraceful end for her, so I’d like to see Midnight come back from that. She could change alignment to Lawful Neutral afterwards, but I’d prefer it if it were Midnight.
Leira (God)
Chaotic Neutral
Portfolios: Deception, Illusion, Mist
She gets Deception and Illusion back from Cyric, and regains the unused portfolio of Mist. The only question is where does she go? One potential home for her is in a rebuilt Dweomerheart with the above three. Illusion is one of the schools of magic, after all, so she’d be right at home alongside gods like Savras and Velsharoon. Alternatively, she could make her home in Myrkul’s domain along with Mask. Or maybe nobody really knows where she is? Maybe some believe she keeps a domain in Dweomerheart, and others believe that a portion of Myrkul’s domain (a remade Bone Castle or whatever you want to call it) is reserved for Leira’s use? Or maybe she’s hiding in Cyric’s domain of the Supreme Throne, invisible even to his eyes?
Velsharoon (Exarch)
Neutral Evil
Portfolios: Necromancy, the Undead, Undeath
Like Leira, he could stay either in Dweomerheart or make a home with Myrkul.
THE SUPREME THRONE
Cyric (Greater God)
Chaotic Evil
Portfolios: Lies, Murder, Strife
He’s lost quite a few portfolios since the heady days of the 2nd edition Forgotten Realms immediately after the Time of Troubles, but I think Cyric could stand to lose more. He’ll be just fine without the portfolios of Deception, Illusion, and Intrigue. All that matters is that he keeps the portfolios which most define the sort of god which he is, and Lies, Murder, and Strife more than adequately serve to define him, as well as grant him more than enough power to still be a powerful god. He draws power every time someone on Faerun lies, commits murder, or whenever there’s any strife. He’ll be more than alright with just those three portfolios.
CELESTIA
Torm (Greater God)
Lawful Good
Portfolios: Duty, Honor, Justice
Ilmater (God)
Lawful Good
Portfolios: Endurance, Martyrdom, Perseverance, Suffering
Bahamut (God)
Lawful Good
Portfolios: Courage, Trust, Wind, Wisdom
This is The Triad. Torm maintains Duty, one of his original portfolios, as well as Justice, the portfolio which he inherited from Tyr and which makes him a Greater God. I added Honor because it just makes sense, nevermind that reciting the words “Duty, Honor, and Justice” is completely fitting to the character of Torm.
Ilmater stays the same, whereas Bahamut has some differences. God of Good Dragons is pretty boring. Wisdom is great but it was the only good portfolio which he had so I thought it’d be nice if he also picked up Courage and Trust. That, in my view, makes up a very interesting Triad, the chivalrous knight leading the way, with the blessed martyr at one side and the ancient wise man at the other.
As for Bahamut, a strong following amongst Dragonborn would be nice. Gods can appear however they like, so why not have Bahamut take on different appearances to different worshippers? He could be a human in platinum armor to his human worshippers, a Dragonborn to his Dragonborn worshippers, a dragon to his dragon worshippers, and an Air Genasi (Given his association with wind) to his Genasi worshippers.
Helm (God)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Loyalty, Obedience, Protection
I think it’d be a good idea for Helm to pick up Torm’s old portfolios of Loyalty and Obedience. Helm’s always been the most faithful of servants, anyway, so why not? And they make for more interesting Portfolios than simply Guardians and Protectors, which seem redundant.
Tyr (Exarch)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Judgment, Law, Truth
I’ve argued this before and I’ll argue it again: Tyr’s always seemed like a god who should be in semiretirement and has always preferred to fulfill a much narrower role than that which is demanded of a Greater God. He’s more the god of the courts of law and criminal justice than he is the god of adventuring heroes. He could work as a rank higher, but the portfolio of Law is taken by Amaunator. His role should be in promoting a system of laws and fair and just systems of criminal justice, so given a role like that, he doesn’t really need to be more than an Exarch, which will allow him access to portfolios which other gods possess. That and as a god in semiretirement he could play a role to Torm similar to the role which Jergal serves with Kelemvor, that of the aged advisor.
Siamorphe (Exarch)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Nobility, Nobles, Rightful Rule of Nobility
Nobanion (Exarch)
Lawful Good
Portfolios: Good Beasts, Lions and Feline Beasts, Royalty
I think it’d be a good idea to put Siamorphe back in with the Triad. Simply put? Celestia’s a sausage fest. :P Seriously, though, the issues that drove Siamorphe to leave could be smoothed over and she could come back. If Amaunator needs a roommate then he could always bunk with Lathander. As for Nobanion, while he’s a god of intelligent beasts, he’s also a god of royalty. I think he’d fit in Celestia.
That raises a possibility, though. It was mentioned elsewhere that a female Paladin god would be a good idea, so maybe introducing one would be a good idea, even if she’s only an Exarch? There are two possibilities. 1) She’s a mortal who discovered the location of Chalsembyr. As a result she was elevated to godhood by Torm. 2) She’s the daughter of Torm and the Red Knight.
BANEHOLD
Bane and all the rest could stay the same save for the following differences.
Talona (God)
Chaotic Evil
Portfolios: Disease
She loses the portfolio of poison to Bhaal, but really, she has no need for it. The portfolio of Disease, alone, is more than enough to sustain her power as a God.
Fzoul Chembryl (---)
Lawful Evil
Portfolios: None
No longer a god of any sort and returns to being a mortal, although he could still be a Chosen of Bane.
Iyachtu Xvim (Demigod)
Lawful Evil
Portfolios: None
If all the gods are returning then ostensibly Iyachtu Xvim is returning as well. If that’s the case then I can’t really see a place for him amongst the pantheon. However, as I mentioned before I’d like to see a classical mythological version of a Demigod appear in the Realms, and that’s exactly what Xvim was early in his existence, so why not make him that again? In addition, why not let him make peace with his father, and have him perform an evil equivalent of the Twelve Labors of Hercules, which could be the restoration of Zhentil Keep? I don’t know about anyone else, but Zhentil Keep was one of my favorite things about the Forgotten Realms. In my mind, it was a defining characteristic of the setting. Without Zhentil Keep as an active participant in Realms events it simply does not feel like the Forgotten Realms, so in my view Zhentil Keep has to come back. However, they’re presented with the problem of how it can come back without Netheril coming back and squashing them twice as flat. So why not give Zhentil Keep its own epic hero to help them refound the city? Give them their own Perseus, their own Aeneas, their own Romulus. Give Zhentil Keep a demigod to lead them and help them rise from the ashes.
Now here’re a few stragglers to round out the list of gods which would need to be changed.
Sseth (God)
Chaotic Evil
Portfolios: Intelligent Snakes, Yuan-Ti, Ophidians, Renegade Spirit Nagas, Somnolence
Bhaal or no Bhaal, Sseth would still have to lose the portfolio of Poison as Talona and Zehir also have it. Aside from that, though, he’s alright.
Mielikki (God)
Chaotic Good
Portfolios: Dryads, Forest Creatures, Forests, Rangers
As mentioned earlier, Myrkul could reclaim his old portfolio of Autumn from her. Mielikki would be fine since, in addition to the very specific portfolios of Dryas, Forest Creatures, and Rangers, she’s still god of the Forests, which is in itself a pretty big deal.
I believe I’ve caught most if not all the contradictions with the exception of one big one.
Zehir (God)
Neutral Evil
Portfolios: Assassins, Darkness, Poison
I have no idea how this guy could work. Darkness belongs to Lolth, and there’s no way she should give it up to make room for him. Poison belongs to Talona and Sseth already, so he couldn’t keep that anyway. As for Assassins, is there any question that Bhaal would be the better god of Assassins? He’s the one with the history in the Realms, whereas Zehir was a core god who was included in the Realms after countless Realms gods were killed off only because someone at Bioware screwed up and made a Forgotten Realms computer RPG which used a core setting god. Hopefully the idea is to bring back all the gods, but must every god remain? Would it really be a bad idea to eject Zehir from the setting altogether? Is there a single Forgotten Realms fan anywhere who would lament his absence?
My personal preference would be to do something interesting with him. I imagine that a good number of Realms fans would like to see Bhaal come back, so why not have him come back in a big way? Zehir seems like the perfect sacrificial lamb, so why not have Bhaal return and assassinate Zehir, thus claiming the portfolios of Assassins and Poison from him in addition to any other portfolios which he may have already possessed? I know I’d appreciate one last bit of godslaying before Lord Ao puts the lid on that. And who better to be the last slain god than Zehir, who should’ve never been in the Forgotten Realms to begin with? And who better to do it than Bhaal, who hasn’t killed anyone in a long time and, with the return of the Tablets of Fate, won’t have another chance to kill anyone else again?
As I said, I seriously doubt anyone anywhere cares about Zehir. At the same time, there’re a great deal of fans who love Bhaal from both the old grey boxed set and the Baldur’s Gate games. So why not kill two birds with one stone and have Bhaal come back in a big way by killing off the one god who just can’t fit into the current Faerunian Pantheon?
Anyway, those’re my thoughts on how many of the gods in the Faerunian Pantheon could be adjusted in 5E to make room for all the returning gods should the rumors be true about all of them coming back. So thoughts? Opinions?
Zehir is Bhaal, did not Bane give you the memo?
And sorry. I'm not on Bane's speed dial.
Other thoughts I'd make Mykrul God of Undead, Curses, and Evil Artifacts.
Valeshroon I'd make God of Necromancers. Necromancers deal with death magic of many types, like cause fear, not just creating undead.
Mykrul build his Bone Castle in the Towers of Night, with Shar. It'd help balance out Selune and Sune bunking in the same dominion. Alernately Banehold, being buddies with Bane, although Banehold is pretty full.
Bhaal I see in Banehold or with Myrkul.
If the Dragonic Pantheon returns it's likely they will rebuild Dragon's Eerie, which Bahamut and Tiamat may wish to return too or not, or simple have portals too.
In a side not Bahamut had a unique Untheric form called Marduk (From the same RL Pantheon Tiamat originated from, Marduk slays Tiamat in those myths), who died during the TOTs, but Bahamut was raised later as his normal Bahamut form. Marduk fought during the Orcgate wars against the Orcish Gods. That in addition to his work as the Platnium Dragon. So Bahamut has a stranger history in the realms then in the 4e core.
Tyr I'd make God of Judges and Authority.
Fzoul I'd keep as a demigod of sicophants.
Xvim I'd make demigod of secret police (or realmsian stand in). He's Bane's son after all.
A question becomes what to do with other Pantheons like the Mulhorandi and Seldarine. I'd stay with if they're in a seperate Pantheon you don't have to worry about over lap which was the old rule.
Oh and kill the use of Exarch's, hate the term. In pre 4e Quasigod was what you called heroic divine blooded mortals. Quasigods had a divine rank of 0, which was still higher then true mortals who have no divine rank period. So hopefully we can restore the pre 4e ranks of Demigod/Lesser God/Intermediate God/Greater God.
Quasigod would makes a really cool divine class or speciality.
2. Addings Curses to Myrkul's portfolios is a pretty good idea.
3. Giving Tyr the portfolio of Authority is clever.
4. So long as Fzoul stays a god, given what we've heard about how the gods will be used in 5E, he can't be used as a villain. He needs to lose his godhood in order to become an active villain in Faerun again. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd like to see him back at the head of the Church of Bane in Zhentil Keep and working alongside Manshoon in the Zhentarim.
5. Good idea on how to make Xvim a workable god without taking Fear, Hatred, or Tyranny away from Bane, though I'm still rooting for the evil Bainite version of Aeneas.
6. Agreed on the non-human and Mulhorandi Pantheons. They should be treated as separate in order to allow overlap.
7. Quasigod doesn't sound as good as Demigod when it comes to the half-man/half-god type of being, but eh, I don't really care about terminology.
All I know is that I'd really like to see D&D in general and Forgotten Realms in specific at least dip their toe into that particular area of classical mythology, with gods having children with mortals who then grow up to be great heroes or villains.Remember pre 4e thier were both regional and racial pantheons are that was how they dealt with Greater Deities having overlap. Isis, Selune, and other deities were moon Goddesses, but they were all in seperate Pantheons and each had thier own unique twists.
The problem with Exarchs is that it was used as a blanket term for everything, not just demigods, so I want to get rid of the confusion.
Demigods need to be able to grant thier own spells too.
And thank you for your insites on my ideas.
Ubatoa is the Primordial of Chult, everything in Chult is his Portoflio to the point were he'd even try to claim the souls of other beings faithful to other gods. Everything, not just jungles belongs to Ubatoa, mountains, coastlines, swamps, rivers, Jungles, everything. Ubatoa isn't worshipped in jungles outside Chult.
Not that it matters if one puts Zehir in a reptile pantheon.
In a side note this should resurrect some strange Gods, like from the Batrachi Gods, and abberant deities, and other monster Gods.
WotC's apparently decided that every god will be coming back. There're a few I don't think need to come back (like Tyr), and a few that're currently alive which don't need to be (like Zehir), but WotC's policy for 5E seems to be that they're all there, hence this thread.
In a side note this should resurrect some strange Gods, like from the Batrachi Gods, and abberant deities, and other monster Gods.
I seriously doubt the designers actually mean they're going to resurrect all deities, especially not those who perished prior to the ToT. They're more interested in reverting the pantheons to how they looked prior to the Spellplague, with perhaps some alterations. I mean, the batrachi gods were never big players in any edition of FR; I don't see reintroducing them as a big priority to the design team.
EDIT: Reading through Erik's comments on Candlekeep, it seems clear they aren't looking to reintroduce every deity under the sun... at least not initially.
erdana,Arial,Helvetica">erdana,Arial,Helvetica; font-size:small">When I say "core pantheon," I don't mean "most powerful gods" in the setting. (Heck, the most powerful gods in the Realms may very well be completely unknown by humans or us, the audience.)
What I mean is the most iconic, flavorful, and well known gods. This is the list you show new players in the Realms looking to play a divine-powered character. These are the gods you look at and say "these ARE the Realms."
DWEOMERHEART
Mystra (Greater God)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Magic, the WeaveNo surprises here save for Mystra’s alignment change, although my hope is that it’s the Midnight personality which is resurrected, if for no other reason than my distaste for the way she was killed. I strongly dislike the idea of Midnight being murdered by essentially what was her stalker. It’s way too much like a Lifetime movie, and a disgraceful end for her, so I’d like to see Midnight come back from that. She could change alignment to Lawful Neutral afterwards, but I’d prefer it if it were Midnight.
So thoughts? Opinions?
So there is no truth to the rumors that she'll be given an orange parka and renamed Kenny? The way Mystra/Midnight have been treated over the years she is essentially the Forgotten Realms version of Kenny.
ALL HAIL AND PRAISE LORD CYRIC!!
I prefer to ahve my elven characters worhsip other elven deities but... still.
screw cyric
I like Cyric too, but if Bane and Myrkul, and Bhaal are all back, whats Cyric supposed to do?
Kill them of course...
Suck wind in last place, as he always has, the obnoxious little twerp...
This, I've always disliked Cyric. I'm just happy to see the return of Mystra. No god or goddess of magic was just...wrong.
Suck wind in last place, as he always has, the obnoxious little twerp...
This, I've always disliked Cyric. I'm just happy to see the return of Mystra. No god or goddess of magic was just...wrong.
Instead of him crying in a corner, I want him to be torn into godly shreds and devoured by whatever foul forces exist in the Realms. It would make things kind of come full circle, ya know? Plus, I want to see Cyric wet his divine trousers at the sight of superiors taking their spot back from the whiny little usurper >.>
Instead of him crying in a corner, I want him to be torn into godly shreds and devoured by whatever foul forces exist in the Realms. It would make things kind of come full circle, ya know?
So... we let Kezef take care of him? I think that would be appropriate.
Anyway, I really hope Cyric doesn't hog the spotlight in 5E as he has done in the past. Same goes with Shar, who seemed to be pulling every string towards the end of 3E into 4E. Give them their due, but don't ignore the other malevolent deities in the Realms. Talona, Loviatar, Beshaba, Malar, Tiamat - I would love to see all of them be more involved in events and plots. Just avoid giving us an overload of one particular deity and all will be well. That's my hope, at least.
And of course that's just the Greater Gods. We still have Beshaba, Bhaal (hopefully), Garagos, Loviatar, Mask, and others. Hopefully their influence will also be felt on Faerun.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Forgotten_...
If they bring back all the Gods in the realms this is how big the Pantheon will be, the dead Gods on the list will be back as well.
I think they are bringing all the gods, splitting thatm back apart from those who were conjoined and all, but as far bringing them all back, from what was said it seems like only a few dead ones might return.
I'd be happy with the return of mystra, Helm, mask, Eilistraee, vhaerun( not my favorite but....) revealing Zhehir to be Bhaal and throw out the pol stuff(aka the exarch,primal spirit, primordial etc stuff)
could you imagine with the return of mystra, Cyric being freed jsut to turn around to see a shocking sight.
a strong warrior in imposing armor and a man dressed in leather.
"suprise , I bet you didn't expect to see me again," the man in leather states.
"Aren't you dead," cyric says
"I fool you there and the rest of toril," Bhaal states," you have something of mine."
"I'm bettter than you and I killed you once," Cyric boasts," and I'll kill you again."
"And that is not likely to happen," a disembodied voice states as a horned crown appears around cyric's brow.
"Whats this," Cyric looks around in confusion.
Throwing the crown off his head, the evil man smirks," Now I have something of his."
"Myrkul," Bane states.
"Yes," the lord of bones states as he blasts the portfolio of murder into Bhaal," and let all of toril quake in the knowledge that the dark three hae returned."
Dark three laughs as Cyric trapped in the crown of horns tries to comprehend what happened.
"We should deal with him first," Bane states.
"Bah, throw him in the hells," Bhaal smirks.
Myrkul laughs wickedly has he opens a gate before hurling the crown into the hells." You know, with his luck, he might try switching places wit ha devil ..."
I dont think they are bringing all the dead gods back.
I think they are bringing all the gods, splitting thatm back apart from those who were conjoined and all, but as far bringing them all back, from what was said it seems like only a few dead ones might return.
I'd be happy with the return of mystra, Helm, mask, Eilistraee, vhaerun( not my favorite but....) revealing Zhehir to be Bhaal and throw out the pol stuff(aka the exarch,primal spirit, primordial etc stuff)
could you imagine with the return of mystra, Cyric being freed jsut to turn around to see a shocking sight.
a strong warrior in imposing armor and a man dressed in leather.
"suprise , I bet you didn't expect to see me again," the man in leather states.
"Aren't you dead," cyric says
"I fool you there and the rest of toril," Bhaal states," you have something of mine."
"I'm bettter than you and I killed you once," Cyric boasts," and I'll kill you again."
"And that is not likely to happen," a disembodied voice states as a horned crown appears around cyric's brow.
"Whats this," Cyric looks around in confusion.
Throwing the crown off his head, the evil man smirks," Now I have something of his."
"Myrkul," Bane states.
"Yes," the lord of bones states as he blasts the portfolio of murder into Bhaal," and let all of toril quake in the knowledge that the dark three hae returned."
Dark three laughs as Cyric trapped in the crown of horns tries to comprehend what happened.
"We should deal with him first," Bane states.
"Bah, throw him in the hells," Bhaal smirks.
Myrkul laughs wickedly has he opens a gate before hurling the crown into the hells." You know, with his luck, he might try switching places wit ha devil ..."
*wicked cackle*
but cyric has intrigue and he would be to curious to avoid it.
Nice story sfdragon, but thats all it is a story, they could never get the jump on Cyric like that, especialy not in his own doamin, unlike the other "gods" Cyric was not content with the realm that came with his office, so he ventured into the Realms of Chaos and forged his own, all gods have a connection with their own planes, but with Cyric its even more so, he crafted the Supreme Throne himself, its as much part of him as his arm or leg, face it, as far as gods go, Cyric is the man!
Cyric was dumb enough to read the Cyrinishad, and was lackey to Shar to shank Mystra, /and/ take the fall for it while Shar skated off scott free. I put no level of stupidity past Cyric.
Cyric was dumb enough to read the Cyrinishad
To excuse him a little: At this point no one knew what would happen from him reading his book himself. It was a unneccessary risk but by far not the worst a faerunian deity did.
And Mask read the book after knowing what happened to Cyric.
and was lackey to Shar to shank Mystra
Which we have no proof of at all.
We can't really say that anyone of them manipulated the other, since they both full well dearly wanted to do what they did together. None was tricked into something he/she wouldn't have loved to do.
Did Shar did trick Cyric into delivering the death stroke only a greater power of murder could deliver? Maybe, but it's not as if Cyric wasn't aching for the chance to strike that blow anyway.
Did Cyric trick Shar into provind him the drop on Mystra that enabled him to deliver the stroke? Maybe, but it wasn't as if Shar didn't ache to see Mystra slain anyway.
/and/ take the fall for it
Since he did it. And it's not that much of a fall. He can influence the realms just as much as any other deity, he just can't take a stroll through Toril for some time.
while Shar skated off scott free.
Because she didn't do any of the real work.
I put no level of stupidity past Cyric.
You did read all the old novels featuing Mask or the Dark Three (e.g. Bane in the Pools of [...] novels .. ouch!)
I put no level of stupidity past Cyric.
You did read all the old novels featuing any deity whatsoever.
Fixed.
Seriously, though. While Mask and the Big Three have all had their moron moments (I would personally say Bane's are the most painful to read, but YMMV), they are not alone. The majority of occasions when a deity appears in a Realms novel, s/he ends up looking like a buffoon. That's not to say Mask's, Bhaal's, Bane's, and Myrkul's follies weren't glaring (they were).
Hell, the Avatar Series has to take the cake for all-time worst representations of the deities. In addition to the aforementioned gods, we saw Helm (who is supposed to be one of the most vigilant deities in existence) reduced to being a gullible stooge, Mystra (whom one would think would be level-headed enough to recognize Ao's power) freaking out and deciding that she was too important to heed Ao's decree that "No gods allowed" means just that, Sune (a goodly, loving goddess, mind you) being disgusted at the thought of needing to cultivate and protect her faithful following to ensure her continued prominence in Faerun, etc.
We also have Helm teaming up with Talos in the Druidhome Trilogy. I suppose, in a way, that's a worthy successor to Bhaal's failure in the Moonshae Trilogy. Yeah, that brings back memories.
More recently...
The War of the Spider Queen didn't make Vhaeraun look particularly brilliant either ("Woohoo! Straight shot to Lolth! Time to die, Spider Qu- oh crap, I forgot about you, Selvetarm, Lolth's guardian and champion"). I don't even think I need to address the Lady Penitent and Empyrean Odyssey trilogies.
Could be worse, they could have been the Gods in the Hammer of the Gods episode of Supernatural, worst episode ever.
Back on topic, I actually felt bad for Sune in the TOTs. I hated Adon, he was such a self absorbed twit I kept hoping Cyric would kill him.
I mean the tool knew she was tossed from the heavens, her Godhood stripped from her, and her ability to grant divine spells only available to those close by.
I mean if Adon had a hard time with a scar on his face, imagine having Godhood stripped away, along with ones powers and perceptions, and oh and all your millions of worshippers are suffering and scarred and you can't do anything about it because your crippled and blind. And Adon's moopping because she won't heal his scar, never mind she can't.
Anyway the best depictions of Gods would be in Sands of the Soul/Simbul's gift for Sharess, as well as Paul S. Kemp for Mask/Shar. Both have subtly and cunning, no bumbling and they stay mostly in the background, working through thier agents.
or if they are a chosen, speak to taht caracter directly via mental deal, but never appear.
and was lackey to Shar to shank Mystra
Which we have no proof of at all.We can't really say that anyone of them manipulated the other, since they both full well dearly wanted to do what they did together. None was tricked into something he/she wouldn't have loved to do.
Did Shar did trick Cyric into delivering the death stroke only a greater power of murder could deliver? Maybe, but it's not as if Cyric wasn't aching for the chance to strike that blow anyway.
Did Cyric trick Shar into provind him the drop on Mystra that enabled him to deliver the stroke? Maybe, but it wasn't as if Shar didn't ache to see Mystra slain anyway.
If you read the Empyrean Odyssey, you will see that Cyric pretty much orchestrated the whole thing, Shar just stepped in to help him deal the final blow, as she had the most to actually profit from Mystra's death (i.e. leaving her the sole goddess of magic).
I want Helm to come back, but I think it'd be nice if it was someone raised up to divinity by Torm. Someone such as... Kalen "Shadowbane" Dren. As for the new Mystra? Myrin. The "girl" Kalen has been watching over.
That, I'd be okay with.
Oh. And Hoar out from under the boot of Bane and become fully a God of Poetic Justice. Because seriously, the Realms needs a God of Karma.
I want Helm to come back, but I think it'd be nice if it was someone raised up to divinity by Torm. Someone such as... Kalen "Shadowbane" Dren. As for the new Mystra? Myrin. The "girl" Kalen has been watching over.
I'm torn. On the one hand, Shadowbane is one of the coolest characters in the Realms. He would thus probably make an awesome deity, and is definitely a worthy successor to Helm. On the other hand, Shadowbane novels are awesome, and I foresee a problem if he gets elevated to divine status.
As for Myrin, I think I might ignore EE and go with that, because that does sound better. (Or I will just keep Azuth as the Lord of Dweomerheart, which is what I did in my game).
smart paladin, we the FR universe regret to inform you that she has returned already and it is..........ShowMystra after mystryl not midnight
e books suck
What sucks even more is that even if you're willing to swallow the bitter pill of ebook only, WotC won't let you if you're not living in the USA: Shadowbane is still not available in Europe (and just an US IP won't help, you'll need an US billing adress and an US credit card).
Since they "fixed" this for their new ebooks going forward, I am beginning to thinkt that they actually do not want to bother "fixing" it for Shadowbane anymore and have settled for having it "fall through the cracks".
smart paladin, we the FR universe regret to inform you that she has returned already and it is..........ShowMystra after mystryl not midnight
Hey everyone, I'm new. I've been on the Candlekeep website for a little less than a month (I recgonize a few names on here, and you can probably guess I'm CorellonsDevout on there). I decided to join thise site and share my thoughts here as well.
Wow, some people really hate certain gods. I have gods I hate too--and Cyric is certainly one of them. That said, I do not want him killed off. If he is reduced in power, fine, but I'm tired of gods coming and going and being killed off or made into aspects of each other. If need be, they can fluctuate in power, especially if that power is based on the number of followers, but no more killing, please. I would like to see all the gods returned, ideally, and a list made of the gods, like they do in every edition. Cyric being a Greater God doesn't mean he has to axe the other Greater Gods. Maybe that is one of the rules Ao lays down: no offing each other.
And as Corellon's Chosen (I realize some people dislike him), I am an advocate of the Seldarine, so I don't want that pantheon messed with. The elves have been through enough in their history (granted, the Crown Wars was their fault), we don't need them losing their gods. The drow pantheon was already messed with (much to my chagrin).
But I understand WotC is trying to move forward, so this is what I would like to see, as I have shared in Candlekeep and people who have read my posts are probably tired of hearing: I would like to see the return of the gods, and it made clear which ones are around (this includes those who didn’t die in the Spellplague). This is mainly for the sake of the novels, since I do not play D&D much. And I don’t want it faith-based. As I recently told Erik on Candlekeep, I’m okay with the gods taking a less active role (I’m in the minority when it comes to liking them being actively involved, so I’ve made these statements several times), so long as it becomes clear which ones are around. What I’ve loved about the Realms is that it’s not simply faith-based and crossing fingers that the gods exist; people KNOW the gods exist, whether they follow a particular god or not. The gods add flavor, even if they don’t actively participate. That, at least, is my opinion, and I’m sure people disagree with me.
As for Corellon I hate the way he is written and yes I read Elaine Cummings Evermeet. This version seems more true to the description of the God and Demi-gods books as his personality wise. Corellon the only flaw he really has is that he has bad taste in women.
Tyr and Helm the only reason they might not come back is that they are actually Norse Gods. It was the reason why Tymora and Beshada were defused from Tyche not to offend the wiccans.
Holy ****! Forgotten Realms dieties are confusing.
I have a player who wants to play a Lawful Neutral Palading during the Sundering. Should that be Amaunator?
I thought Paladins are suppose to align to the Greater God so if Sir Isteval worships Lathander but calls him (her?) Amaunator and has Amaunator sigil on his chest shouldn't that make him Lawful Neutral?
I'm confused 
Helm. Pure Helm if LN
biotech66 wrote:
sliceoffruit wrote:
Random(?) thoughts:
Tyr can go back to Valhalla - he has received a Certain Summons and he is needed NOW. Grand History of the Realms describes Tyr's arrival in the Realms, so a departure is not out-of-character. He can bless Helm and Ilmater, then go. Ilmater finds a worthy mortal - he of all the gods would know - and elevate him in status, planning to train this being, eventually able to accept Tyr and Torm's portfolios. If you read the 4e Astral Sea supplement, you know that the gods are desperately short-handed and need reinforcements.
Auppenser used to be the god of psionics. An old thread (now long-gone but I kept notes) suggested a way to return him without needing a resurrection or deus ex machina (pardon the pun). He would be a demigod or exarch for a while, due to need to recuperate from his long absense. His portfolios would be Psionics and Wealth. Worshipping him would include sacrifices of something you can regenerate naturally (such as PP stored in a crystal).
The 2014 BI involves a band of mortals getting diverted from their original purpose, and doing justice (or trying to) against Shar and Cyric for the murder of Mystra. I won't give it away, but my character got beat to a pulp in the process and I want those wounds to be worthwhile. (The BI group still needs to have a talk - 
- with the Triad and Sune and several other Good gods, about how deities are not supposed to be blind to events around them.)
Amanuator / Lathendar work together, but somebody else needs to be the god of the setting sun. The 'autumn' description given in OP doesn't sound like it will work. The idea of 'decay due to the ravages of time and much age' is more appropriate than 'decay due to willfully tearng things down'.
There are too many gods of Death / Murder / Assassination. Let a few of them take each other out. 
I like the demigod idea described somewhere above: some Greek-style Heroes doing their sponsor god's will sounds like fun and awe-inspiring. The Demigod and Demigoddess of Sune will need to have a bardic college founded nearby, to properly describe their deeds.
I liked the tale of the 3e Red Knight's ascension, and the special paladin power she could grant (instead of Lay on Hands, you can Train the Militia). A few more individuals like that would be cool. If 5e PCs can become More-Than-Epic, tell the story of the first few persons to accomplish such a task!
If we are going to be bringing back gods, then damn well we need good old Mouldy back. I miss the deprivations of Moander and after climbing through his corpse in some plane in an old SSI gold box game recently, Id love to see him come back.
As well as Leira. That lady knew how to be super mysterious.
You know, reading up on Auppenser, he seems like a fun deity to follow. Of course, now I can't get the Star Wars theme outta my head as I picture a reformed Chruch of Auppenser...
sliceoffruit wrote:
Well I came back just to witness the Morning Lord's return. Lathander has always been my favorite deity in all the D&D worlds. However, he is not, as GreenKnight claims a sun god. Not in the literal meaning. The sun is not included in his portfolio and he plays no part in the sun's daily journey. Dawn represents in his case more than just a phase of a sun day. It serves as a metaphorical new beginning. Lathander's dawn does take place even where the sun never shines.
Im quoting his Dogma from Faithes and Pantheons:
Strive always to aid, to foster new hope, new ideas, and new prosperity for all humankind and its' allies. It is a sacred duty to foster new growth, nurture growing things, and work for rebirth and renewal. Perfect yourself, and be fertile in mind and body. Wherever you go, plant seeds of hope, new ideas, and plans for a rosy future in the minds of all. Watch each sunrise. Consider the consequences of your actions so that your least effort may bring the greatest and best reward. Avoid negativity, for from death comes life , and there is always another morning to turn a setback into a success. Place more importance in activities that help others than in strict adherence to rules, rituals, and the dictates of your seniors.
I guess that shows as well the inherent quality of Lathander to never give up, never, and therefore to never abandon anyone or anything. He is just the guy that keeps trying to make the world and everything in it better. He is the god of progress, redemption, open mindedness, tolerance and forgiveness.
What of the Deities of Knowledge and Invention, Milil, Deneir, Oghma, and Gond or the Dwarven pantheon?
Personally, I don't find them confusing in the sleightest, except the dwarven ones, but I've never really been that interested in dwarves, so I can't say I've ever invested the time in getting to know their deities. And I'm definitely happy to see Lathander and Helm making their return. Still not too sure about Next as a ruleset, but 5e Realms at least sounds promising.
I am just happy. I haven't played anything remotely similar to a cleric in a long, long time, but I certainly will play a cleric of Lathander in the 5e Realms. I never liked Amaunator, who is in my opinion superfluous by definition. There are other deities who do his job of preservation and bringing Justice much better.
It is time for a new dawn.
Now that 5E is on the shelves, is there going to be some plot hook, like the Spellplague, to explain the return of dead Gods, or will the DMG suggest some home campaign explanations?
I want Hoar back!
Its time for some retribution!
Justice is neither lawful or good, so Tyr's a crock.
jdhVictor wrote:
I think they threw all the Gods in there so that you could see what they are in case you want to run your 5E game in 1356 DR, 1375 DR, 1480 DR, etc. I'm not sure why Amanuator isn't present but maybe it's as simple as a change from NG to LG and be done with it.
Diffan wrote:
Irennan wrote:
Diffan wrote:
SmartPaladin wrote:
Irennan wrote:
Diffan wrote:
Irennan wrote:
Anyone notice that the Death domain in the DMG doesn't fit Kelemvor anymore? This might mean that Kelemvor will not have that domain since the FR is the default setting for 5e.
That's ok Myrkul should have that back anyway.
Ok I have a question maybe two at most...with the coming of the Sundering and some of the gods being brought back (no i haven't read the books yet) have they smartened up and brought back Vhaerun and EIlistraee yet. I know they were killed off some time back but i'm really hoping they brought them back. I feel the drow pantheon should not just be Lolth only its ridiculous that they killed Eilistraee off in the first place who is going to stand up to Lolth for the good drow. Yes i'm a drow fan and yes i'm a half-drow fan as well I want to see more done with this pantheon. My second question is where can i find the new if any information on what has happened in the realms since the sundering series i guess. I'd really like to know and catch up with it all. Oh one more question what did someone mean by saying that the forgotten realms setting is now the default setting for dnd?
dmgorgon wrote:
Faediira wrote:
Faediira wrote:
Irennan,
for real only 3 authors and yet they won't open the field to new comers who have been dying to get published since 2nd edition was out. Oh God I'm going to die of laughter at this point.
It is truly a sad thing when the devs have no clue as to what's what in the realms right now...where the hell is ed greenwood when you need him. I just looked him up real quick on google and just saw the ed greenwood presents books they seem to be the perfect thing i need to maybe finish things off and tie up loose ends.
I don't think that they truly don't know what to do. It would be really stupid to push and hype the Realms and the Sundering and the return of stuff so much, if they didn't even know what to do. I guess that the devs (whose number amounts to a grand total of about 14 ?, half of which is busy with licensed stuff, like that Neverwinter MMO) overlooked the setting in favor the rules and left the info in the minds of Ed and the like. He has been writing like crazy during summer, and I guess that his work is about all the changes in the Realms, in order to offer a basis for their new ''storylines'' and adventure modules and -in the far far future- a FRCS.
Elminster's FR has nothing on the changes brought by the Sundering (nor about Eilistraee/Vhaeraun, as the deity section in it focuses exclusively on the human gods), if it's what you are after, but it is a very good book, rich of fluff and info of general validity for the Realms.
As for the novels, their current authors are Ed, RAS and Erin Evans, and with 2 of the 4 novels/year being Drizzt books (yay, what's the count for them now, over 40?) the variety in FR stories has been reduced to almost nothing. No CS/regional sources, very little variety in novels for the coming years, lore limited to the strictly necessary info needed to run their organized play adventures and no announcement whatsoever for what will come for the FR, heck even the ''Forging the Realms'' articles release pace has slowed down a lot... even 4e had way more. The setting looks like pale shadow of its former self now
I'm really inerested in the drow pantheon specifically. I did something a bit different in my book and as much as i would love to see it published it might not be in the cards as i said earlier in an above post if wotc isn't opening up for new authors. What happened to Elaine CUnningham and the other authors. I am going to get the sundering books and the new drizzt books. I am going to continue scouring the internet for whatever i can find on the changes to the realms that i had found in a timeline that had the date that you click and it pulled up what happened that year. Not so much focused on the human gods/goddesses of the realms but it would still be a good source of info to have on hand. I may or may not have to change a key location in my book depending on what i can find out through other sources. Irennan is there a way I can add you to like a friend list on here or something since i'm still relatively new to the forum I'd like to have someone who can show me the ropes a little better.
Well, nothing has been released on the drow pantheon, unless you count hints of their return with the Sundering here and there (but that's not in-setting). E&V's return should have happened with ''Menzoberranzan: city of Intrigue'', but sadly that material has been cut from the final version of the book.
Idk if it is possible to add friends, and I am not an expert myself (I don't post a lot and only read the FR section of the forum). But you can send me a PM, if you have any questions (go to your profile, click on the ''message center'' option and then ''send message'').
Out of curiosity what happened to finder wyvernspur since he did become a god thanks to moander?
He still is a demigod, nothing notable has happened to him AFAIK.
Leira is back and Waukeen!
I think you might find they make Elistrae and Vhaerun Exarchs and not true Gods.
Tyranthraxus wrote:
Tyranthraxus wrote:
what is or was Rymathiin i can't find it anywhere on the internet...
It's the dark elven miyeritari city that Khelben helped to restore in the novel ''Blackstaff'' (by sacrificing his life in a sort of high magic ritual). People assumed that some of the drow that Eilistraee managed to transform would go live there. I think that with Eilistraee and Vhaeraun as archfey, the city would have sort of become their 'turf' on the material plane (while some kind of grotto -''the grotto of silver and shadow'', according to one of the maps that didn't make into the final cut of the book- was going to be their home in the Feywild).
Thank you Irennan...wotc is making it really hard for me to be patient at this point lol Ed get off your ass and get some updating done.
Just a few thoughts:
A) Yep, only a few authors get to write for the Realms, sad to say. Except...I remember quite a few doggy-awful books being published with the FR logo on it by people whom I never heard of and never heard from again. I'd rather have just a few doing it, with some wiggle-room for others to prove themselves in short-story format. (They used to do that, if I recall correctly.) It's better to keep a tight focus on what's being written than to let things get 'fuzzy', from my perspective. But an extra novel or two a year *not* by RAS would be welcome. No offense to RAS.
B) Yes the god list will get large again but so what. Gods are like actors, you only need to pick the ones you want to play active roles in your stories. And for those who got sick of Cyric, Shar, and Mystra...they have their day in the novels and then they fade back, more or less, into the background.
C) One way to make the lists more cohesive is to 'integrate' them. In my case I'm looking at melding the dwarf and gnome pantheons together--they're cousins, more or less anway. I alos like the idea of melding the purely elven with the 'sylvan' deities (those worshipped more by centaurs and whoever), to change the tone. Some gods from the various pantheons are actually 'human' gods known by another name--the gnome god Gaerdal, for example, could be represented by Helm or a dwarven diety while Arvoreen could either be another name for Torm or a demigod allied to Torm.
D) On the nature of demigods (as per 5e DMG): I don't fully subscribe to the idea of demigods having few or no followers. I like the idea of some being popular conduits for the lesser/greater gods they serve, almost like a divine middle-man. They receive worship directly but give some of that power to their benefactor in return for protection from other deities or for future sponsorship to true godhood. (And I do hope the term exarch goes away, it sounds so artificial.)
So for what im reading here it seems i might come back from my self exile since the ****ed FR....
Paladin_Odlanier wrote:
So for what im reading here it seems i might come back from my self exile since the ****ed FR....
Any reason why you posted this twice? You realise after 29th of October its just going anyway right?