"The novella leads up to next year's worlds-spanning event, The Abyssal Plague. You'll see signs of the Abyssal Plague in Dungeons & Dragons, Forgotten Realms, and Dark Sun novels, game products,"
You can the official discussiont thread over at Dragon 389 - Ampersand: Dungeons & Dragons Essentials Are Coming!.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry...
Yay! Demons have been infected with the Black Death, finally, after so many long years of experimentation! And now - they're dying off in massive numbers, entire layers of the Abyss are being wiped out - yay!
Oh wait... it isn't going to be a good thing, right? 
I'm glad I've completely and totally removed myself from cannon to the point you couldn't even pick up my world and identify it as Forgotten Realms (of any edition). I've even left D&D behind.
Really this shouldn't come as a shock to anyone. It wasn't like the RSE's were going to end. They never have. They just keep getting bigger and more RSE-ie. Now they're so big they no longer impact just one world, they impact multiple worlds at once. 
And is this just a novels thing or is this affecting the game side of things too?
Well it does mention novels and game products, so one would probably assume that it affects the game side too.
I am really having a hard time coming to terms with this. After using an RSE to, ostensibly, distance themselves from the previous RSE culture... on what basis is this new one being brought in, and why?
It seems like just a ploy to get me to buy Eberron and Dark Sun novels, and theyre going to be doing PoL novels too!? I thought it wasnt supposed to be a setting? Then why is it getting novels!?
At the start of 4e the core setting wasn't suppose to get fleshed out. But the designers, being humans, have changed their minds. Or had their minds changed by market surveys, public opinion polls, gamers wrinting letters or sending in e-mails...
Am already poking people to see if we are going to do anything with it in LFR (which is non-canon, so can totally ignore it, but I expect we'll have PR reasons to participate anyway).
Not satisfied with gutting the Realms, they're gonna do it to all the settings! And they couldn't even come up with something better than "-plague" as far as creativity. Haha! It's such an obvious and comics-inspired ripoff to get people to go multi-world that it's beyond cheap.
So I just have post this, which expresses my full appreciation:
In 2014, they'll do the same thing, but also do a tie-in to Magic: the Gathering, Star Wars, and Pokémon. It'll be awesome seeing Darth Vader battle against Elminster (and Elminster's sidekick, Pikachu). MUAHAHA!!!
I choose YOU, Jabba-chu!
Though I am rooting for
I am not happy about the prospect of Wizards adding metaplot to settings that have always been better for the lack of idiotic metaplot (Eberron for example). Minding if it is anything like their other things they have done, it will get a sidebar in a book and it won't be considered canon. Well except whatever nonsense happens in FR novels, but that's just part of the stupidity of having novels canon.
I dont think its necessarily stupid for the novels to be considered canon, I mean I see no real reason to even bother reading a novel if it didnt "really" happen. I think the novels should be considered canon, but they (WotC) should do a better job of checking for inconsistencies, and keeping everything in check continuity wise.
And im not ready to just assume that this Abyssal Plague is a bad idea just yet, It might turn out to be kinda cool, as Gomez pointed out, it may be a way for them to link the various settings together, although with Sigil still around, I guess we wouldnt really need that. Its got me curious, I'll give it that, Im wondering exactly what an Abyssal Plague is? Havin Plague on there does make me think of Spellplague, and the first part of it is apparently in the paperback version of that Drizzt novel (Pirate King?), so Im wondering if what ever it is start off in the Realms? and then somehow spreads to the other settings?
It definitely has the potential to suck bad, but who knows? It might turn out to be kinda interesting, guess we'll have to wait and see? Its bound to be something BIG if its effecting all the settings.
At first, the "core" world of D&D was supposed to be vague and non-specific. Now they're writing novels for it.
When 3E came out, WotC went out of their way to de-link all the settings. Now, they're writing a multi-campaign setting novel line that will tie everything back together.
So, if the Realms novels are canon, but Eberron is not, then events in this new novel series that happen in the Realms that effect events that happen in Eberron (and vice versa) are only official on the Realms side of things?
What?
When 3E came out, they told us they wouldn't produce boxed sets anymore because they were too expensive to produce (too many pieces, parts and cost to put it all together). Now they're releasing a new Essentials series that includes no less than 3 boxed sets.
:sigh:
I'm normally loathe to play into the fan-angst angle, but allow me to say in all honesty that at this point it's hard not to regard anything Wizards of the Coast says without a giant, mega-dose of skepticism and doubt.
...Eberron was not mentionned.
Well, it depends on how you interpret their wording, but "worlds-spanning event" and this other tidbit suggest Eberron's involved:
On the main novel page for the Abyssal Plague, it notes the following:
Follow the five-part prelude novella: The Gates of Madness by James Wyatt, in these novels:
- Part 1: Forgotten Realms, The Ghost King by R.A. Salvatore (July 2010)
- Part 2: Dungeons & Dragons, The Mark of Nerath by Bill Slavicsek (August)
- Part 3: Dark Sun, City Under the Sand by Jeff Marriotte (October)
- Part 4: Forgotten Realms, Whisper of Venom by Richard Lee Byers (November)
- Part 5: Eberron, Lady Ruin by Tim Waggoner (December)
So it would appear to include Eberron as well. I suppose it's possible that the last installment is just placed in an Eberron book, but I doubt that they'll make it affect all the other worlds and just skip out on Eberron.
The widest interpretation is that a group of adventurers from one world goes "world hopping" through multiple settings, including Eberron. The narrowest interpretation is that they're just attaching these novella parts to random books to increase sales, and the "event" is just something that happens differently for each setting. We'll probably know more as soon as someone reads the 1st part tomorrow.
Although, to be honest (and this is a completely subjective note)... I'm a little sick of demons this and Abyss that. I'd actually be a tad more interested in the idea if, say, it revolved primarily around devils, slaadi, or maybe even djinn. I know demons are probably more accessible than these last two, but they seem to be sucking the attention away from their lawful evil counterparts; I'd like an Archdevil to grace the cover of the MM4, assuming it comes to be, and a book dedicated to devils, a la the Demonomicon that's coming out. Again, it's just my personal tastes talking, but I always preferred the puppetmasters of Baator to the engines of destruction in the Abyss. Who knows; maybe this Abyssal Plague will involve some other group to a noticeable extent, instead of only demons ;)
The mere idea makes me want to sell all my 4E books and give up on D&D.
Whoa, lets just calm down here people, we dont even know what IT is as the moment. No need to do anything too drastic, not just yet anyway.
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"It involves Tharizdun and the cults of Elemental Evil, apparently--as well as some entity called the Progenitor who's able to converse with Tharizdun. The main action of the sample is set in the core D&D world--during the days of the Empire of Nerath. I don't know if that's just something for the sample or not, but it would be an interesting way to do D&D novels with minimal impact on DM's freedom with the core setting. "
The mere idea makes me want to sell all my 4E books and give up on D&D.
Whoa, lets just calm down here people, we dont even know what IT is as the moment. No need to do anything too drastic, not just yet anyway.
calm down, never itelling me to calm down doesnt work.....
I'm not going to read those books anyway.
Over at the forums on rpg.net, Armchair gamer went and looked up the first part of the novella in The Ghost King paperback (it came out today). Here's what he reported, sblocked because it's spoilery:Show"It involves Tharizdun and the cults of Elemental Evil, apparently--as well as some entity called the Progenitor who's able to converse with Tharizdun. The main action of the sample is set in the core D&D world--during the days of the Empire of Nerath. I don't know if that's just something for the sample or not, but it would be an interesting way to do D&D novels with minimal impact on DM's freedom with the core setting. "
Eberron is the last safe place in existance-thank God it's the best setting anyway.
O. M. G. Did you seriously just come into the Forgotten Realms setting area and say your setting is better than ours?
Eberron is the last safe place in existance-thank God it's the best setting anyway.
HAH! That was a funny joke. Err........that was a joke right?
Over at the forums on rpg.net, Armchair gamer went and looked up the first part of the novella in The Ghost King paperback (it came out today). Here's what he reported, sblocked because it's spoilery:Show"It involves Tharizdun and the cults of Elemental Evil, apparently--as well as some entity called the Progenitor who's able to converse with Tharizdun. The main action of the sample is set in the core D&D world--during the days of the Empire of Nerath. I don't know if that's just something for the sample or not, but it would be an interesting way to do D&D novels with minimal impact on DM's freedom with the core setting. "
NOWS THE TIME TO PANIC!!!!!
Have at look at this blog post of WotC_Trevor's. What we have here is Shardminds and Planar malarkey. I definitely smell crossovers.
The Living Gate? You're sure? Oh heck no...
Have at look at this blog post of WotC_Trevor's. What we have here is Shardminds and Planar malarkey. I definitely smell crossovers.
Well, I suppose this re-affirms that the WotC senior staff love the Far Realm, aberrations, and all that related crap. They apparently love it so much they'd marry it if they could.
Personally, I'm sick to death of Far Realms and aberrations, and this Cthulhu-wannabe crap. The "Abolethic Soverignty" and all things related are just plain stupid IMO. The whole deal about monsters that are "so alien you can't possibly understand them!" can only go so far and then they cease to be interesting. To me they're far less interesting even than demons, who at least have a goal that can be understood.
Don't get me wrong. I loved Lovecraft. Stories of Cthulu were fun, and even the Cthulu game is fun. But as an overarching metaplot in the Realms, or as a multi-world event? Bleah. Not for me, thanks.
the power of cthulu does not compel you
the power of cthulu does not compel you
aberrations suck
&D
no Aberations, dungeons and dragons its dungeons in dragons.... and I smahsed your living gate trying to bring in the Pizza, not my fault you didnt make it wide enough
okay I got nothing
I always thought Wizards always have intended to keep the interconnectivity between all its settings, I believe it was in the Preview Books for 4E D&D Points of Light they hinted at spelljamming/worldhopping/planeswalking would be returned in a new form. It's obviously better for WotCee business if people would want to follow all settings at least a bit.
If the novels could juggle all settings continueity this could be an interesting reading experience. That they are starting the novels in PoL's ancient history of Bael Thurach (a dark, fiendish setting that is definately compelling to me) bodes well to me.
I wonder how the Far Realm fit with Tharizdun and the Abyssal Plague.
Maybe it is connected to the love triangle of Tyr, Helm and Tymora.
Tharizdun is incredibly ancient, and some believe that he originally came from the Far Realm.
Also, the most recent lore from 4E on Tharizdun suggests that he created the Abyss by corrupting a part of the Elemental Chaos. Both good and evil gods banded together in order to imprison him for this act. He is trapped, and somewhat disconnected from his avatars. However, they still wander various worlds and realms sowing destruction, and some of them have little or no memory of their former connection to Tharizdun.
He's most known in Greyhawk, although they're apparently using him in their new PoL setting (core 4E) as well. Since he's been trapped, he's largely been forgotten by all mortals and all but the eldest gods. He's essentially Entropy, more of a multiversal constant (and therefore "elemental") rather than a god, per se.
The "Living Gate" that Illuvrien mentioned... that was destroyed long ago, but it was essentially a portal to the Far Realm. The Greyhawk god Pelor was credited with its destruction, though he probably had help from other gods at the time.
In terms of how they might connect it to Forgotten Realms, they may try to say that Ghaunadaur is actually one of Tharizdun's avatars. Not saying it's true, but it could play out that way, since one of Tharizdun's names is the "Elder Elemental Eye" (which is somewhat similar to Ghaun).
The Living Gate? You're sure? Oh heck no...
Have at look at this blog post of WotC_Trevor's. What we have here is Shardminds and Planar malarkey. I definitely smell crossovers.
Well, I suppose this re-affirms that the WotC senior staff love the Far Realm, aberrations, and all that related crap. They apparently love it so much they'd marry it if they could.
Personally, I'm sick to death of Far Realms and aberrations, and this Cthulhu-wannabe crap. The "Abolethic Soverignty" and all things related are just plain stupid IMO. The whole deal about monsters that are "so alien you can't possibly understand them!" can only go so far and then they cease to be interesting. To me they're far less interesting even than demons, who at least have a goal that can be understood.
Don't get me wrong. I loved Lovecraft. Stories of Cthulu were fun, and even the Cthulu game is fun. But as an overarching metaplot in the Realms, or as a multi-world event? Bleah. Not for me, thanks.
I hear you man. Throw a rock and you will hit a Far Realm creature.
This whole Cthulhu and Exalted rip off is getting irritating. D&D used to be unique but now its a mish mash of designer's favourite settings.
Anyone looking forward to 5e's RSE?
Anyone looking forward to 5e's RSE?
For an RSE, it may be the case that we won't have that long to wait. They're priming up to do the multi-setting "Abyssal Plague" that will apparently have an impact on many settings (not just the Realms).
WotC seems to addicted to metaplot and can't break the chain. Every time it looks like they've toned it down, something big comes down the pike. This may be the first time they've ever done a multi-setting event, though.
This may be the first time they've ever done a multi-setting event, though.
There was that FR/Ravenloft two part quest.
The freeing of Waukeen quest was linked to Placescape.
Die Vecna, Die! was in Ravenloft and Placescape.
I think the Spelljammers novels were set in different worlds.
But yeah, this would be the first time that all the worlds are linked together with one plot.
It is not a bad idea. I do alot of quests that are spread over different worlds/planes.
I just want to know if the Abyssal Plague will cause permanent changes to settings and if these crossovers will be more common.
I don't really know if I'd consider Ravenloft and Spelljammer as unique and separate settings so much as they were add-ons. Does that make sense? Ravenloft was made as a sort of side-pocket-plane and you could get to it from multiple settings, but I'm not sure that anything only from within Ravenloft or Spelljammer really had a metaplot-type of influence on any particular setting. In the same way, I wouldn't consider the "Abyss" as a setting unto itself, although it's definitely used by each setting in its own way.
Planescape is just... different in my way of thinking. It's an over-arching setting if you consider that you can use it to go anywhere, but usually when I think of planescape it's meant more to get you out of the main setting you're in and take you into an epic campaign in the outer planes.
Anyway, that's just my personal take on things. People perhaps use those as unique settings all contained, but I've never seen that happen. Then again, I stopped playing between 2E and 4E and really just would hang out occasionally (infrequently, actually) when people played campaigns drawing heavily from those.
But ultimately, I was referring to a possible metaplot that would be linking (for example) the Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and Eberron and having significant plot influences on each of those settings that would be long lasting. They may not even have such a metaplot in mind, I don't really know one way or the other. But that's what I was referring to when I said "it may be the first time they've done a multi-setting event."
The "Living Gate" that Illuvrien mentioned... that was destroyed long ago, but it was essentially a portal to the Far Realm. The Greyhawk god Pelor was credited with its destruction, though he probably had help from other gods at the time.
At least according to the Shardmind write up the Living Gate was at the pinnacle of the Lattice of Heaven. It was destroyed in the Dawn War, although no reasons are given. My guess is it was destroyed when the Lattice was. The destruction of the Gate allowed the Far Realm to intrude. The portal is now held closed by Ioun.
In The Plane Above it says Pelor hides the largest remaining pieces of the Living Gate within the Sun of Suns (which is an aspect of himself) in his palace on Hestavar. He disagrees with the Shardmind belief that rebuilding the Gate will seal away the Far Realm. Ioun, who helps keep the fragments secret, also aids the Shardminds in Hestavar that are trying to build a new Living Gate.
Maybe she knows something the others don't.
I am curious to see what the "worlds spanning event" is going to be... although it does smack of bad Marvel or DC cross-title stories.
www.wizards.com/dnd/article.aspx?x=dnd/d...
Specifically:
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While it is true that the Abyss formed when Tharizdun cast a shard of ultimate evil into the Elemental Chaos, Tharizdun himself did not create that shard. Instead, it was formed by the obyriths. Trapped within the ruins of a cosmos they had pillaged and destroyed, the obyriths created the shard of evil and planted it where they hoped a mighty being would find it. Once the shard pierced a hole in the cosmos, the obyriths were free to pass through it and lay waste to a whole new planar system.
As luck would have it, the obyriths' plan did not go as they hoped. Tharizdun battled them to a standstill, while primordials that investigated the wound became demon lords that could match them in power. Today, the obyriths lurk in secret. They plot to seize control of the Abyss, but demon lords, mortal spellcasters, and other powers all seek the same prize. The Abyss is caught in an endless war.
I'[m wondering if they will sell....
Do you remember the 3e novels with Lidda, Regdar and the other iconics?
I'[m wondering if they will sell....
Do you remember the 3e novels with Lidda, Regdar and the other iconics?
I didn't even know that they made novels with the 3E iconics. Did they put them in a specific setting like Greyhawk or ?
mialeee was a horrendus elf bimbo with goblin ears and a very horrible face?
remember them, don't like them.
Maybe it is connected to the love triangle of Tyr, Helm and Tymora.
Was Tymora tentacled by a tentacle monster? 
(I can't believe I just posted that... but hey, it's a Far Realms joke. )
Maybe it is connected to the love triangle of Tyr, Helm and Tymora.Was Tymora tentacled by a tentacle monster?
(I can't believe I just posted that... but hey, it's a Far Realms joke.
yes yes she was, it even undressed her....... hahahahaha you know I do have an idea for a piece of art to go with this, but ...... I can't link it for other issues.
In terms of how they might connect it to Forgotten Realms, they may try to say that Ghaunadaur is actually one of Tharizdun's avatars. Not saying it's true, but it could play out that way, since one of Tharizdun's names is the "Elder Elemental Eye" (which is somewhat similar to Ghaun).
Ghaunadaur and Tharizdun are two seperate entities. In Realmspace, Ghaunadaur has masqueraded as both Jubilez and the Elder Elemental Deity (Tharizdun). Jubilex has gotten angry at it for doing so, and has lashed out at Ghaunadaur a few times over the eons, while the Elder Elemental Deity never acknowledge that it had it's identity stolen (Demihuman Deities).
In terms of how they might connect it to Forgotten Realms, they may try to say that Ghaunadaur is actually one of Tharizdun's avatars. Not saying it's true, but it could play out that way, since one of Tharizdun's names is the "Elder Elemental Eye" (which is somewhat similar to Ghaun).
Ghaunadaur and Tharizdun are two seperate entities. In Realmspace, Ghaunadaur has masqueraded as both Jubilez and the Elder Elemental Deity (Tharizdun). Jubilex has gotten angry at it for doing so, and has lashed out at Ghaunadaur a few times over the eons, while the Elder Elemental Deity never acknowledge that it had it's identity stolen (Demihuman Deities).
They are right now, obviously. But what I said was, "they may try to say" that Ghaunadaur is really an avatar of Tharizdun. You know, retconning in the name of "the next big shocking reveal" for 4E.
So the Far Realm is responsable for shokushu goukan?
The Far Realm is responsible for many insanity inducing phenomena, all of which is completely unexplainable and unknowable by the mortal mind. So the answer is yes.
Also, just so you know there is an upcoming romance novel set in the Realms entitled, "Touched by a Tentacle." I'm told that it involves an illicit love affair between Drizzt and a good aligned Illithid. ;)
On a more serious note, I think I'm one of the few individuals who doesn't mind the Far Realm-ish elements in the Realms growing in prominence. I actually find it more refreshing than the tired old yet-another-demon who wants to destroy the world.
In terms of how they might connect it to Forgotten Realms, they may try to say that Ghaunadaur is actually one of Tharizdun's avatars. Not saying it's true, but it could play out that way, since one of Tharizdun's names is the "Elder Elemental Eye" (which is somewhat similar to Ghaun).
Ghaunadaur and Tharizdun are two seperate entities. In Realmspace, Ghaunadaur has masqueraded as both Jubilez and the Elder Elemental Deity (Tharizdun). Jubilex has gotten angry at it for doing so, and has lashed out at Ghaunadaur a few times over the eons, while the Elder Elemental Deity never acknowledge that it had it's identity stolen (Demihuman Deities).
Im thinking that Ghaunadaur is actually an aspect of Shar. I have no real proof of this, but if you look in the Age of Netheril box set, and read the description of Shar's holy symbol in there... sounds familiar right?
But any way im gettin off topic here. I am interested to see how theyre going to tie this in with all the other settings.
I wonder how the Far Realm fit with Tharizdun and the Abyssal Plague.
In PoL it's it was Tharizdhun who killed the Living Gate and thus allowed the Far Realm to enter the world
I wonder how the Far Realm fit with Tharizdun and the Abyssal Plague.
In PoL it's it was Tharizdhun who killed the Living Gate and thus allowed the Far Realm to enter the world
It's not Pelor and Ioun?
Pelor, Ioun and an unnamed buddy of their's (hinted to be Tharizdhun) first discovered the existence of the living gate and visited it to talk to it and lear more. After their talk they left peacefully. Some time later their buddy returned alone and attacked and killed the gate.
Pelor, Ioun and an unnamed buddy of their's (hinted to be Tharizdhun) first discovered the existence of the living gate and visited it to talk to it and lear more. After their talk they left peacefully. Some time later their buddy returned alone and attacked and killed the gate.
My understanding was that the Unnamed God came back and activated the gate, and that Pelor and Ioun later destroyed it.
Pelor, Ioun and an unnamed buddy of their's (hinted to be Tharizdhun) first discovered the existence of the living gate and visited it to talk to it and lear more. After their talk they left peacefully. Some time later their buddy returned alone and attacked and killed the gate.
My understanding was that the Unnamed God came back and activated the gate, and that Pelor and Ioun later destroyed it.
You're right, I remembered wrongly. The Unnamed Deity returned and slew the Guardian of the Gate an then opened it. Pelor and Ioun later shattered the gate in hope that would sever the connection
whats a rse lol
RSE means "Realms Shaking Event" or "Realms Shattering Event" depending on the rest of the tone of what's written. Something like the Time of Troubles (gods walked Faerun as avatars), the Spellplague, or other things that have a big impact on the Realms in terms of metaplot.
Information about the Far Realm can be found everywhere in D&D 4e sourcebooks, true. Almost all of them say something about it... a single page or a sidebar, at best, per every 300 pages... Can you really say there's a "saturation" of Far Realm in 4e? Besides the aberrant creatures stats, what do we really know about it? What solid information do you have about Tharizdun or the Far Realm in 4e? There are more books, articles and sourcebooks about the Dark God for 2e and 3+ than for 4e.
It certainly looks like the current designers like the Far Realm, and they planted enough hints here and there that they were planning to do something big about it.
Which is a nice change of pace, by the way. Haven't you ever grown tired of killing goblins, liches and dragons after 30 years of playing D&D? Do you really need another 30 years of the same thing before you allow the publisher to offer something different?
You don't need to buy the novels, the "Far Realm sourcebook" or anything related to the new RSE. You can even stick to 1, 2 or 3+ if you are so afraid of changes. There is enough material for those editions to keep you busy for decades.
Just don't forget to remove all the references to Tharizdun, mind flayers and beholders from those editions too. They have been there from the very beginning.
The problem for me is not the real world time frame, but the in-game one. If they start Abyssal just, say, 10 DR years after Spellplague, that would be lame and completely unbelievable. Unless they manage to tie both plotwise... Think of Tharizdun being behind the Spellplague, for example (not sure everyone would buy the idea, though).
Regarding aberrant creatures, we cannot really say they have been under the spotlight yet, though it seems they will in the near future. Let's just hope they are smart enough at WotC not to banalize them, turning them into new all-to-common orcs... If Tharizdun and aberrants are interesting to me is precisely because little is known about them.
Personally, I find the upcoming event a refreshing challenge, for the publisher and for us players. The theme is mature (just like most of us in the 30s), dark and full of mystery. The threat is the biggest yet to see in any previous RSE... We are not talking about gods killing gods here, but about personified entropy destroying creation itself. Come on! Who doesn't want to give a try to something like that!
The line between the sublime and disaster is thin, said Napoleon... Let's see what comes out of this. Tharizdun is not going to destroy my 4e library, so if WotC decides to turn the setting into something I don't like, I will follow my own path without hesitation.
{OFF-TOPIC} Gmarked did you get my PM?{/OFF-TOPIC}
I really like the idea of a event that happens accross many settings. It just doesn't have to be a multiverse changing event.
Now if you like conspiracies you could always say that the AP is a way to usher in the new and drastic changes the Essentials line will bring to DnD. You could say that, but not me. I do not believe it is the case... Unless it actualy happens like that, then I called it first.
IMHO, Essentials is going to be 4e Revised, not 4.5 or 5.0. Its purpose is to attract new players to RPGs, introduce the rules updates into the core books and adapt all monsters to the MM3 stat changes. Which means our current books will be as useful (or useless) as they are today.