Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dan_vk Jun 20, 2009 16:09:07	I somewhat remember this location and can find only a handful of material about it. I know from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide that the tomb is built on the bottom of the Akanamere in the center of the lake, is a pyramid, and as of 1479 DR is partially revealed and is still not flooded. From Shining South I know Shan the Golden found the Sunphelm of Shandaular there, but the language is a bit ambiguous and I cannot tell if she found the Sunphelm “shortly before the opening of the Orcgate” or if the tomb was “buried beneath the waters” then. I also remember some details from reading 2nd Edition AD&D material which I may or may not be recalling correctly, such as Vodyanoi guarding the tomb from the outside and that the tomb is not of Sarrukh origin. Does anyone know where I could find more information on this tomb and who/what may be interred within?
#2 BadCatMan Jun 20, 2009 22:15:19	Thanks, I never knew about that Sunphelm or its connection to the Akanamere (I'm a Chessenta fan myself.) There are a lot of unanswered mysteries about the Akanamere and the Bay Of Chessenta, and surrounding environs. In older lore, there was mention of "mud-men" plaguing the waters of the Akanamere and the Bay Of Chessenta. The theory goes that sunken magic items leak a little bit of their magic into the surrounding mud, and such creatures are created. There's a mention of some kind of magical water, which begins flowing in the Akanamere, being responsible for a colony north of Soorenar. See the More Than Meets The Eye hook here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4hook/20080125a For another odd place in the Akanamere. I'm not aware of any older or other references to a crypt in the Akanamere - it seems to have been invented for 4e. I know of the presence of Vodyanoi (said to be aquatic umber hulks, though I thought I saw the name given to another creature elsewhere), but not in relation to a crypt. I don't know about a Sarrukh mention either. But I didn't know about the Sunphelm either. :embarrass If you know where there's another mention, please let me know. Given this crypt is a stone pyramid, I assume it to be a ziggurat of Untheric origin. This would put its construction to be any time between -1504 DR (when Unther conquered the Akanal area) and 929 DR (when Tchazzar ousted them). (Alternatively, you might go with it being a piece of the Netherese flying city, or an older Jhaamdathan ruin). The Orcgate was opened in -1076 DR, destroyed -1069 DR, and Shandaular, capital of Ashanath, was founded in -1064 DR, with Shan The Golden as its first queen. So I'd say she found the Sunphelm shortly before -1076, your first interpretation of that passage. Assuming the crypt and the pyramidal tomb are one and the same, and that it's Untheric, then it was surely constructed after -1504 DR and no later than a few years before -1076 DR. Somewhere in the middle, to give the Untherites time to settle in (colonisation really began around -1250), and still be old by the time Shan explored it. As for what's there, then there's the tomb of an ancient Untheric mage, and some powerful relic releasing magical waters or enchanting said waters, which then create mud-men in the vicinity (alternatively, the Netherese city is the source of this), or some other submerged magical item/artifact is producing mud-men. Maybe Vodyanoi, the aquatic umber hulks. And ancient Untheric monsters and traps as you like. :D
#3 dan_vk Jun 21, 2009 9:59:45	Purely by chance I bumped into an AD&D alumnus at my FLGS who once ran a game in Chessenta and still reads the Forgotten Realms novels. He could not remember anything specific about the Akanamere tomb, but pointed me in the direction of a few books. To begin, the Vodyanoi are mentioned in Old Empire (TSR9274). Regarding its size, I had assumed the Great Rift’s collapse into the Underchasm drained the Akanamere. If you rescale and overlap the map of Chessenta from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting with the map of Akanûl from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide the northernmost part of the Underchasm overlaps with the southwestern portion of the Akanamere. But apparently that is not the reason for a smaller Akanamere, according to synopsis for The Restless Shore by James P. Davis. While the WotC website (here) only mentions the dry lakebed of the Akanamere other websites (here) clearly state the Akanamere was dried by the Spellplague. According to the author (here) he did not focus on the area’s history, so there probably is not anything in the novel regarding the tomb. There is also an article called Nightmare Creatures of the Restless Shore on WotC’s website (here) with three monsters from the book, but Vodyanoi and Mudmen are absent. It looks like aberrations are the new inhabitants. Again on the WotC website (here), there is a story by Unholy author Richard Lee Byers called Serpentsong which involves a lizardman with magical song. The lizardmen might be related to The Restless Shore, or they might by Sarrukh, but either way I have a sinking feeling there will not be an official answer regarding the contents of the Akanamere tomb until Eric Boyd's unedited write-up (here). Oh well
#4 markustay63 Jun 21, 2009 10:14:36	There was also that series about the Blade Kingdoms, which ocupy the western end of the Arkanamere. There is a thread over at CK about them (but not really all that much info, unfortunately). It makes me wonder why something wasn't done with them in 4e... more opportunities missed. The guys in-charge probably were completely unaware of the existance of those kingdoms (citystates, really).
#5 dan_vk Jun 21, 2009 12:07:02	I was completely unaware of the existence of the Blade Kingdoms. Thanks Markus Tay. Thanks to you too BadCatMan; that fallen fortress hook works very nicely with the storyline I am trying to put together.
#6 markustay63 Jun 21, 2009 12:40:50	I just added some stuff to this snippet (I had found a couple of new locales on an L-List thingie by ED), and I also added a marsh, where I assume both the Lizardmen and Mudmen come from. Show
#7 Dark_Wizard_02 Jun 21, 2009 14:37:30	Interesting, I wasn't aware Ed was planning to go over the area. That would have been great, but alas, the area is now firmly Akanul. I've taken an interest in the area. I haven't come across any mention of the tomb or the kingdom associated with it. Not that I have read exhaustively on every source possible regarding the sub-region.
#8 BadCatMan Jun 21, 2009 20:14:33	Ed's not going to write about the area? Aww. I ignore the Blade Kingdoms myself, mainly because I never knew anything about them until long after I'd completed and written up my Chessenta notes and guide, and began a campaign in the town of Gal/Gaj/Gai, and as far as I could tell, they had no relation to Chessenta. Just another one of those novel-only "pocket Realms". If anyone's interested, it's not just in Council Of Blades; Salvatore's The Spine Of The World has a minor character from there, and IIRC, a snippet about the place.
#9 markustay63 Jun 21, 2009 21:01:50	'The Blade Kingdoms' was not invented for the novels - they were Ed's, and appear on the Vilhon Reach Map. That map is combination of four sources, some of which do not agree with each other (showing different locales). The L-List thing I was talking about can be viewed HERE, where other interesting places (including Ed's original Anchorömé Islands) can also be read about. Two Realms - one defunct - are also mentioned in that L-List thing - Malander, and Crommador. Malander seems to be a current 'kingdom', at least as of 1372 or so, but Crommador would do for a name of that long-lost realm the tomb belonged to (read the Tor Mak entry, and also the adventure in LoD that it pertains to). Sadly, I just looked it up, and the Tor Mak adventure (the ruins seem perfect for a capital of a fallen realm) is the one entitled 'Shadows'... and Shades are involved... Figures. Still, lore is lore, and beggers can't be chosers when it comes to one of these 'forgotten realms'.
#10 BadCatMan Jun 21, 2009 21:27:57	Ah, so Vilhon Reach was printed first, and Paul Kidd decided to plop a novel there the next year. But I don't know how you can say that the Blade Kingdoms are Ed Greenwood's, as he didn't write VR (his credit's only on Turmish), nor mentions any of them in that Realms-L reply. Admittedly they're similar, in that they're the usual minor lords, but that's as far as the similarity goes. I do love the idea of a deepspawn mass-producing sheep. :D
#11 Dark_Wizard_02 Jun 21, 2009 21:55:41	Hmm, I already have those names eagerly scribbled into notes. I'm waiting for Ed on a potential reply for settlement naming regarding the sub-region, so I can give it a less real world seeming veneer for my own version of it. If anyone's interested, it's not just in Council Of Blades; Salvatore's The Spine Of The World has a minor character from there, and IIRC, a snippet about the place. What did he say about the area?
#12 markustay63 Jun 22, 2009 10:36:57	I'll have to ask Ed about that... he did say he already had something somewhat different in-mind for that region (a very southern-mediterranean feel to it, with olive trees and grape vineyards...) in his own campaign, and the author of the novel took it in another direction (which is why he wanted to write a series of articles steering it back to something coherent and Realmsish). I had always likened Sembia to a pre-unification Italy, but apperently Ed had that 'take' in-mind for the Blade Kingdos. The thing I will ask him over at CK is if he actually used the name 'The Blade Kingdoms', or was that added for the forth-coming novel (I'm betting it was Ed.. he has a certain passion for the word 'Blade'). He probably just had "small, petty kingdoms" in his design notes, and Paul Kidd ran with that (perhaps a bit too far...)
#13 markustay63 Jun 23, 2009 12:02:31	I got an answer from Ed, and it's basically all 'NDA'. This area was obviously reserved for something, but who knows what now. THO (Ed's 'mouthpiece') did say she also thought the name 'The Blade Kingdoms' was from Ed's original, because she has it on a map a good four years before Paul Kidd's story took place there. I would love to get the scoop on the place, but as of now, all we have is this L-List thingie, posted by Eric Boyb and presumably from "Ed's Notes". I would consider EB a VERY reliable source, and take all of that as FR canon. That, added to the little-bit he has mentioned before over at The 'Keep (petty kingdoms, olives and grapes, sheep & goat herding), still gives me the impression of a very mediterraen, pre-unification Italy vibe (from the mountainous north country, to the coastal regions). I guess that makes Westgate Sicilly... how apt. :D
#14 old_sage Jun 23, 2009 19:14:03	Markus, if you are ever inclined to start working on the region, I wouldn't mind assisting in your efforts. I've long had some ideas for the Blade Kingdoms, and would appreciate a little 'collaborative thinking.'
#15 dan_vk Jun 23, 2009 22:55:41	Apparently I need to keep asking questions regarding semi-obscure material; it gets more lore made!
#16 markustay63 Jun 23, 2009 23:11:00	If we ever have a fansite policy actually see the light of day, you will see a plethora of back-logged Realms lore in the form of new Candlekeep Compendiums. After all, WotC has no plans to develop pre-1379 FR lore, so they shouldn't mind at all if others do. :D And Sage, I still would like to move forward with the Sossal project as well, but I need to finish my new resource (a complete and layered pdf atlas of Faerûn) before commiting to anything else - that project is taking up 99% of my time ATM, and I have to take advantage of one of my rare periods of 'focus'). When that is complete, I would like to tackle each region of Faerûn, and the Blade Kingdoms is a great place to start. FR has so many nooks and crannies that have yet to be explored.
#17 old_sage Jun 23, 2009 23:57:50	And Sage, I still would like to move forward with the Sossal project as well, but I need to finish my new resource (a complete and layered pdf atlas of Faerûn) before commiting to anything else - that project is taking up 99% of my time ATM, and I have to take advantage of one of my rare periods of 'focus'. Keep me apprised then. As I'm currently working on some various musical Realmslore tidbits at the moment [and no, I haven't forgotten about the 'Sossal musical lore' you asked me about].
#18 BadCatMan Jun 27, 2009 8:04:23	Just a note: Vodyanoi were statted out as an aquatic fey (a green-skinned man who lives in cold waters) in Frostburn. A far cry from the aquatic umber hulks mentioned in the FRCS 3e.
#19 ScrivenerofDoom Jun 27, 2009 8:42:18	Just a note: Vodyanoi were statted out as an aquatic fey (a green-skinned man who lives in cold waters) in Frostburn. A far cry from the aquatic umber hulks mentioned in the FRCS 3e. Vodyanoi as fey is more consistent with RW mythology. Vodyanoi as aquatic umber hulks dates back to 1E's Fiend Folio.
#20 BadCatMan Jun 27, 2009 9:10:13	Ah, they're real. Yeah, that makes much more sense.
#21 markustay63 Jun 27, 2009 10:46:29	I always thought that was a stupid name for Aquatic Umber Hulks, being a big fan of RW 'faery lore'. Those Aquatic ones should have been named Verdant Hulks, or even Azure Hulks (indicating an affinity with water, as 'Umber' does with Earth). Maybe Cerulean Hulks. :P Anyhow, 'Azure' would probably be better for an aerial version... perhaps Emerald Hulks for water? Or Viridian... YEAH... Viridian Hulks. Now we just need a name for a type associated with fire, and 'Flaming Hulks' is just plain wrong on so many levels. :D
#22 lord_karsus Jun 30, 2009 21:24:15	Maybe Cerulean Hulks. :P -Yes.
#23 BadCatMan Jun 30, 2009 21:53:32	What do you call a forest-dwelling Umber Hulk? Lumber Hulk. What do you call a Umber Hulk in the rain? Umberella Hulk. What do you call a venomous Umber Hulk? Mamba Hulk. What do you call an Umber Hulk Bard? Rumba Hulk. What do you call the other Umber Hulk Bard? Samba Hulk. What do you call an Umber Hulk mathematician? Number Hulk. What do you call an Umber Hulk Barbarian? Incredible Hulk.
#24 markustay63 Jun 30, 2009 22:01:18	I think you have a very severe case of Hulkamania.