I am trying to figure out what a "fair" DC would be to prevent one from finishing the book. Im thinking DC 20 - but was wondering if there was anything compelling to have a higher/lower DC.
"The Tue Life of Cyric" is another book 0that seems only to have vague references. Is this book just a book, or is it a magical tome?
the last reference in any of the novels place the Cyrinishad hidden close to candlekeep and the true life in the hands of cyric himself.
they are at the heart of 2 novels, and I don't think you'll find and game stats for them.
both are artifacts, not just magical tomes. the true life has no compulsion or magical effects to prevent you from stopping, but the Cyrinishad should be almost impossible for a mortal to resist.
they appear in 'prince of lies' and 'crucible'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avatar_Series
When the Cyrinishad is finished, Cyric makes Fzoul Chembryl read it, but Fzoul's mind is shielded by the god Mask, who has been manipulating Cyric for years through his sword Godsbane, which is actually an avatar of Mask and has been hiding the soul of Kelemvor from him.
Just from being inside Fzoul's head as he read the Cyrinishad Mask was compelled to believe every word and could not stop him from reading. Mask begins to worship Cyric and confesses his treachery as the sword Godsbane and relinquishes Kelemvor's soul (who proceeds to kick Cyric's ass).
The Cyrinishad is a PC ender. There is no save, you start reading and you must finish. Even if you are illiterate, you can interpret its meaning from the illustrations around the edges and believe everything documented in it. During the trial, most of the other gods performed acts outside of their portfolios and made multiple attempts to destroy evidence to prevent the Cyrinishad from being read because they all knew they would worship Cyric if they heard its words.
The Cyrinishad is under an enchantment by Oghma such that no god can ever know its location. Even were the god to hold it in their hand, they would not recognize it and upon setting it down would immediately forget they ever had it.
A mortal named Malik was sent after the Cyrinishad, but he loved Cyric so much that he felt he would better serve him by curing him of his insanity. Thus Malike procured the True Life and presented it instead of the cyrinishad at Cyrics trial, curing cyric of his insanity. Malik then gave the True Life to Cyric and wrote a book (Crucible) detailing his journy.
Presumably the existance of the book "Crucible: the Trial of Cyric the Mad" would compel candlekeep to move the Cyrinishad or every Cyric follower would know where it was and destroy the keep to get it. It's current whereabouts are thus presumed unkown (though no book actually states it was ever moved)
The Cyrinishad is a PC ender. There is no save, you start reading and you must finish. Even if you are illiterate, you can interpret its meaning from the illustrations around the edges and believe everything documented in it.
I think there is room for interpretation on that. In Volo's Guide to all Things Magical, the item did allow a "save vrs spell" with a "-4 penalty" (which If i remember 2e enough, that wouldn't be too drastic assuming your we over 10th level or so). Still, apparently even a successful save would render you Feebleminded until a wish or heal spell.
Further, a full wish spell could potentially negate the effects of the Cyrinishad, although only for enough time to allow the PC an additional save.
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With more thought it seems like it is question of how powerful it should be, or should be in your campaign. In Volo's Guide it also mentions that there were numerous "early drafts" which, while not artifacts, these could have similar if not unpredictable effects. Most have been sought out and destroyed, but some still exist etc etc....
Maybe there is no save for the actual Cyrinishad, but the earlier drafts do (as appropriate for your game)???
To stay true to the novel, if you wanted to use the cyrinishad in your campaign, I think using a draft is an excellent idea. The actual book itself, if you were true to the novels, would allow no save.
Prince of Lies was written in 1993, Volo's guide was written in 1996, and Crucible was written in 1998. The Cyrinishad corrupts Mask in Prince of Lies, and he is supposedly cured by Fzoul's Reading of the True Life shortly after. But Crucible is where it is defined to have full impact on every god including but not limited to all 12 major powers (2 years after volo's guide), so ultimately it's up to you which source you prefer to listen to.
Personally, I like treating the novels as complete canon where artifacts are concerned, since that is technically where the stories that make them important come from. I like you're idea of having the PCs encounter a draft, but a book that gods fear above even AO shouldn't be taken so lightly as a save at -4 (or 24 DC in 3rd ed terms). It also makes them more menacing. A real "the one ring" sort of epicness that the PCs are dealing with.
Edit:
On a side note, in my campaign, a Cyric follower finds the 397th edition (which Cyric simply pointed a finger and erased all the text from) and used it for a spellbook. The glyphs around the side retained much power of death and murder enhancing any caster's understanding of the spells retained in there but also giving them enormous penalties to insight checks as it makes them less able to descern the truth and fills their head with historical lies regarding the inadequacy of any other god.
I had 2 PCs in the campaign use it for a spellbook before figuring out what it was. The second killing the first to get his hands on it and the second killed by the party when he went insane (via good roleplay only, I never told the player what the thing was) and refused to relinquish it when they determined it was evil.
The Cyrinishad corrupts Mask in Prince of Lies, and he is supposedly cured by Fzoul's Reading of the True Life shortly after.
Mask wasn't cured by the reading of the true life, he escaped the effect by surrendering enough of his divine essence to lose a divine tier (falling from lesser to demipower). Although in retrospect waiting for a wish spell or even better the reading of the True Life would have been a better way (likely Mask didn't knwe that a wish could do the trick and didn't yet know that the True Life existed at all)
Mask wasn't cured by the reading of the true life, he escaped the effect by surrendering enough of his divine essence to lose a divine tier (falling from lesser to demipower). Although in retrospect waiting for a wish spell or even better the reading of the True Life would have been a better way (likely Mask didn't knwe that a wish could do the trick and didn't yet know that the True Life existed at all)
I'm fairly certain the novels just ignore the existance of the spell "wish" just like most primary novel characters don't view "raise dead" to be half as accessable as D&D player characters tend to think.
But you're right, I made assumptions. It doesn't actually describe what happens in the three or so years between Prince of Lies and Crucible. It alludes in the end of Prince of Lies that Ao will assuredly pass favorable judgement on Kelemvor's assumption of the Death portfolio, but since Fzoul kept the True Life all that time I just assumed that's why Mask was back to working against Cyric (and everyone else for that matter) all through Crucible.
Not that I think you're wrong, but is there a novel that gives this information? otherwise, where did you read it?
Not that I think you're wrong, but is there a novel that gives this information? otherwise, where did you read it?
It's under Mask's entry in Faiths&Avatars
I think the book was one of the most uber items ever created in FR....even more powerful than the Netherscrolls..What happens if Ao reads it?
Then he would believe that Lord Cyric is the greatest!
:lightbulb :evillaugh 
I think that everybody should read it...twice.:D
That does bug me that the most powerful artifact in the Forgotten Realms was never statted out in 3e.
I wonder what wonderful powers it would have in 4e?
I wonder what wonderful powers it would have in 4e?
:D
It has the ability to make people wonder how such an all-powerful deity could get his arse handed to him by three deities, and then get put in the doghouse ever since. Then, they question why such an all-powerful deity would be unable to break free, and incapable of keeping his church strong, and would then come to the realization that he isn't all powerful. Thus Cyric is defeated by the only foe he believes powerful enough to stop him: himself.
And the TSR principle of "evil must always looks arse-backwards" lives on.
is still being use as a smokescreen for Cyric. Hey she showed her goods to Azuth and the others and feebleminded them so Cyric could "pimpslap" Mystra with Azuth's "pimpstick"!:D Out of those 3 who are left?:P
Try:P oh, I mean Tyr who got manipulated into killing Helm, then he goes and gives up his Godhood to Torm and then got punked out by Orcus! Don't believe me read the 4E Novels
Lathander actually was another god.
Read at own risk.
Show
Sune all Cyric has to do is show her HIS 'Pimpstick' and she will bow her knee to a real LORD and Master.
I tend to think that Shar
Ugh. That scenario may have been confirmed as "strictly symbolic", but it still makes me taste bile when I think about that as the reality of the situation.
Try:P oh, I mean Tyr who got manipulated into killing Helm, then he goes and gives up his Godhood to Torm and then got punked out by Orcus! Don't believe me read the 4E Novels
Oh, how I wish The Crystal Mountain portrayed Tyr's death. After that line in Downshadow, you'd think we'd get treated to the fight of the century. But nope, ol' Tyr isn't even mentioned after giving up his divinity. Ah well. He did "kill" my favorite, Helm. So f__k him.:D
Lathander actually was another god.
Another "revelation", another major detail the The Crystal Mountain butchered (with no disrespect to Thomas M. Reid).
Sune all Cyric has to do is show her HIS 'Pimpstick' and she will bow her knee to a real LORD and Master.
I bet the feminists who read this are just gonna love this.
:D His 1000 year imprisonment is nothing in the Grand scheme of things, a drop in the bucket. It means nothing to HIS worshipness.
I know that and you know that, but apparently the designers don't. Or at least, they're acting like they don't. To be honest, though, this has the makings of a super-adventure, should they decide to give FR some love. "Assault on the Supreme Throne" or "The Execution of Cyric the Mad" sound perfect. And the kicker is, if the battle isn't one sloppy TPK, Cyric will just escape through the opening provided by the heroes. Then he can go get revenge on Shar. At least in the meantime, he has the time to pen his memoirs (the second part, at least): The Cyrinishad II: My Struggle.
To be honest, though, this has the makings of a super-adventure, should they decide to give FR some love. "Assault on the Supreme Throne" or "The Execution of Cyric the Mad" sound perfect. And the kicker is, if the battle isn't one sloppy TPK, Cyric will just escape through the opening provided by the heroes. Then he can go get revenge on Shar. At least in the meantime, he has the time to pen his memoirs (the second part, at least): The Cyrinishad II: My Struggle.
:D This is my current campaign. By total coincidence, the primary characters of the party are a Wizard worshiper of Oghma (author of the True Life) and a Paladin of Tempus (who first brought charges against Cyric) 12 levels down, 18 to go till I have to stat out Cyric. Any suggestions?
:D This is my current campaign. By total coincidence, the primary characters of the party are a Wizard worshiper of Oghma (author of the True Life) and a Paladin of Tempus (who first brought charges against Cyric) 12 levels down, 18 to go till I have to stat out Cyric. Any suggestions?
For the campaign, or statting out Cyric? Cause if it's the latter, I have no clue. Never did ponder the (official) might of the gods, myself.:D
For the former:
- Involve Malik el Sami yn Naddar. He's not very fond of his role as Cyric's Chosen/Seraph, but he's still loyal to Cyric, all things considered. He can manipulate the heroes into freeing his lord, or lead them astray. He could also pass as an ally, but entices enemies to attack the party in the hopes of slaying them. This could be just about any Cyricist, but using Malik reaches a higher level of immersion, and will prove an interesting dramatic foil when the party encounters Cyric. And so the party doesn't grow suspicious, have the enemies aim for Malik as often as they do the heroes, just for the cover-up. Malik can also bluff his way out of most situations, so he should have staying power.
- Involve Torm's, Oghma's, or Kelemvor's churches somehow. Be it a single NPC who aids/tasks the players, a vision from a deity, "signs"(like recovering a sword blessed by Kelemvor or finding a tome by an Oghman priest describing the Zhentil Keep disaster which followed the True Life reading) . It adds to the whole "grand coincedence" to which your party is oblivious, which can become a puzzle of sorts for them to figure out (as well as to understand their roles in the battle at hand).
- Lead them astray more than once. I already mentioned this, but investigating Cyric's church should be quite complex. Make the less obvious paths as dangerous or challenging as the most obvious road. Keep them on their toes, but make them earn every little scrap of information they obtain regarding Cyric with bloodshed and resources lost.
- While it is said Cyric is alone in the Supreme Throne, consider a series of battles as the party enters and traverses the planes (if you plan on fighting him on his own turf). The party is attacked from the get-go, fights a battle on the way there, has to make a running dash for Cyric's fortress, battles again at the gates, enters, finds another opponent guarding Cyric's personal chambers, and then finally reaches Cyric himself. Doesn't even have to be Cyric's forces. Could be interlopers who seek to aid/slay Cyric for their own dark benefit. All in all, this is pretty brutal, but at this stage in the game, the heroes shouldn't expect much less.
- Have them captured and interrogated by Cyric's faithful. Being taken to a hidden shrine and tortured for information will put a frown on any hero's face. And, if your party has become close friends with a good-natured NPC, perhaps that NPC is caught too, and sacrificed to Cyric on a bloody altar, while the heroes are forced to watch. Makes it a lot more personal, and gives them added motivation to bring down Cyric.
2- Done, Oghma's church is involved and the players are using candlekeep as an information hub (having gained permanent access by having one of the characters keep a journal of their adventures form lvls 1-10 involving some earth shaking events candlekeep would love to have detailed documentation of).
3 - Done and Done. They're currently lost beyond hope in the middle of Halruaa being stalked by a steel predator in search of one of the keys :D
4 - A friend of mine had a very interesting idea for this: perhaps the Supreme Throne is able to contain Cyric, not because he was locked away in a plane in the physical sense, but rather trapped in the moment in TIME before he killed Mystra, so he could never feel the joy of actually killing her. This means that the Supreme Throne is an ever repeating battle in the Dweamorheart which I'll research more when that time draws near. But that's at least 13 levels away.
5 - That part was already in my notes and gets to happen next session. I've thought of an interesting twist for the Order of Blue Flame :D :D :D
Thanks for all the advice!
As a greater deity in his own right, he lasted well and actually he was the one to corrupt the Far Realm and it's lesser denizens around him. Naturally an incursion of such magnitude soon attracted more powerfull Far Realm entities with powers like demi/lesser deities. However even they were unprepared for the full fury of a greater power of murder and when finally the greatest Far Realm entities, equal to greater gods themselves, arrived they found a manically laughing Cyric surrounded by the corpses of slain Far Realm demi/lesser gods and decided that this guy ain't so bad and accepted him as one of their own.
Cyric's madness helped him adapt quite well to his new environment, however now he's homesick and his return will only be even more deadly for the normal universe.
The Surpreme Throne should already be heavily influenced by the Far Realm and his angels and other servants all being transformed into pseudonatural versions of themselves.
As for Cyric himself, I would at least make him a level 38 solo skirmisher.