-Well, if anyone ever feels like it again, then...
*ahem*
The one thing I liked about the Earthmother is that one never really knew (at least early on, and not for sure) if she was indeed separate from Chauntea. But then, I've always liked the complexity factor of multiple gods, with local gods having pre-eminence over others based on the culture and region, not to mention worshippers. I've always thought that the less said about the gods, the more inscrutable and interesting they are.
Speak for yourself Ms. Sunshine. :P ;)
The Earthmother loves you, Stiggy... just give her a hug! ;)
Only my wife gets hugs... unless its some sneaky attempt to break someone's spine... :evillaugh
Awww! It's just a lil' hug from the Earthmother! :D
I don't even hug my own mother... :P
If they were intended to be two different beings (and from what we know about how the Moonsheas came into FR, this is the case), I'm not bent out of shape by making the Earthmother an Archfey.
I think it fits better, for one, and it also explains why the elves here seem different from the rest of Fearun.
Anyone have any ideas for a 'Sea Father' for Faerûn? :D
Earthmother though... the pagan in me loved her as an aspect of Chauntea, since the whole agricultural touchy-feely aspect of her felt incomplete without the Earthmother lurking in there somewhere to balance things out. It was that part of her that got broken out when she had to take one of the kids over her knee was how I liked looking at it.
I think it fits better, for one, and it also explains why the elves here seem different from the rest of Fearun.
-The origins of the Llewyrr Elves have already been given.
I'm not bent out of shape by making the Earthmother an Archfey.
I thought she was a primal spirit (denizen of the World) rather than an archfey (denizen of the Feywild).
I don't see why she can't be both a primal spirit and a fragment of Chauntea, actually, though I don't think that's going to be the official position.
I thought she was a primal spirit (denizen of the World) rather than an archfey (denizen of the Feywild).
I don't see why she can't be both a primal spirit and a fragment of Chauntea, actually, though I don't think that's going to be the official position.
I don't see a reason why she couldn't be more then one, either... and Archfey, Primal Spirit... whatever it is.
If everything is connected, then there is no reason why something can't also be something else (depending on who's doing the thinking).
I was inspired by the other thread (don't ask me which one :thinks
- 'Godhood' is something that happens to a being when a) they become immortal, and b) when they become powerful enough to recieve energy from others (worship), and also dispense it to others (divine spells).I consider 'deity' a type of 'God'. A god is just any uber-powerful being that gets worshipped and grants spells, so I think even Archfey and Primordials should be considered 'gods' (but NOT deities).
Therefore 'godhood' becomes just a power-level classification, and has NOTHING to do with race. So a Demon could be a God, and a Drow could be a God, etc...
It doesn't change their race in the slightest (especially since they can easilly change their outward appearance at will).
Anyhow, I liked the way it was handled in Dark Sun - at level 20 you began your ascendance, and by level thirty you complete it (from 21-29 you are a demi-god). I took that and modified it slightly, so now my 'mortal' classification goes from levels 0-24, and the demi-god status kicks-in at level 25 (levels 25-29 become the equivalent of DvR 1-5). If you think about how powerful a level 25 charatcer is (under the 3rd edition rules), in the RW such a being WOULD be considered a demi-god.
Of course, that makes my Chosen even more powerful then the canon ones, but considering they are all exarchs in 4e, I think 'demi-power' is the right level for a Chosen (or any proxy). Ilmater's saints were nothing more then his 'chosen', and they were demi-gods, so it all works out.
So getting back to the Earthmother - she is just one avatar (shard) of the much bigger Chauntea, who is composed of many of these 'shards' (avatars, incarnations, etc). Ergo, seperate, individual 'bits' can be Arch-fey, or Primal-Spirit, or whatever.
You can think of it anyway you like - Ilmater's Saints were all just part of him, and Mystra's Chosen were really all just part of her (and there is some evidence of that).
Call her 'Saint Earthmother' for all I care... but she can still be seperate, and yet still connected. Cosmic entities like these are really little more then great big balls of energy (since their physical form is malleable, and not even neccessary). Thats why you can't really kill things like deities and Fiends - Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.
You can absorb it, or imprison it, or whatever else... but if left to it's own devices it always reforms on it's home plane. Everything beyond the mortal world (Prime Material) is really just energy, and all that crap living there just takes physical forms as need be because our simple mortal minds can't handle their true forms.
So if you think of it in those terms, then Maztica and Earthmother and whoever else are all just outlets wired to the Fusebox that is Chautea.
Deep Sashelas I've always had a bit of a soft spot for, despite being elven... though I take comfort in that he doesn't associate with Corellon or his ilk much, and helps to keep their evil contained on Evermeet.
He is also a very sensual being.
Chauntea has spawned life and subsequently multiple spirits around Torils globe have collected into her body. They are more simple, primal guardians of her greater whole, a sort of immune system.
I consider 'deity' a type of 'God'. A god is just any uber-powerful being that gets worshipped and grants spells, so I think even Archfey and Primordials should be considered 'gods' (but NOT deities).
I'm going to second this, but only with 'Powers'. Seems more plausible to me. There might be divine powers (deities), cosmic powers (archdevils, demon lords, elemental princes,...), nature powers (faerie lords), and void powers (the respective Far Realm guys).
This would be for 3e; in 4e, however, it's more extensive and looks like that. Abyssal powers (demon lords), divine powers (deities), nature powers (primal spirits), primal powers (primordials), void powers (Far Realm guys), and the appropriate ones for archfey, some shadow exemplars, and archdevils.
He is also a very sensual being.
Of course he is... he hangs out with a dolphin as her sidekick, saying he has not only good taste, but that he has to be able to keep up... :D
You can, however, start out as one and become another thing. So Graz'zt, formerly an archdevil from the Astral Sea, becomes a demon lord, a denizen of the Abyss (this is core I'm talking about, just to show what the precedent is in the use of these terms in 4e; I'm leaving aside the debate about who Graz'zt's mother was, or whether the Abyss was originally part of the Astral Sea in the Realms cosmology).
So the Earthmother is either a deity, an archfey, or a goddess. She isn't two or three of these things at once. But she might have started out as a goddess and became a primal spirit. Or maybe Chauntea started out as a primal spirit and became a goddess.
The Shaman sourcebook in 2nd edition AD&D dealt with spirits and their nature, and how they differed from gods, in a way that seems compatible with the 4th edition take, so the vocabulary did exist in previous editions, though it wasn't commonly used.
"God" and "deity" are synonyms. I prefer using "deity" when speaking generally because it's gender-neutral, where words like "god" and "goddess" are more gendered. I agree that "power" is a better generic term for all such potent planar beings.
I would agree that 'power' is more neutral, but I think in day-to-day affairs most mortals will just refer to the being they worship as 'theri god', weather that happens to be a deity, Archfiend, or Primordial.
So 'god' and 'Power' become synonymous, but one is the less-reverant way of referring to them.
I know that in the RW 'gpd' and 'deity' mean the same thing, but in the RW 'demons' and 'devils' are the same thing, so I wouldn't fall back on RW terminology, which D&D has been redefining for years now.
Personally, the way I see it, mortals may call them gods, but they are not gods - they are extremely power immortal beings. Truie Gods exist on a tier above all that, and beyonf most mortal comprehension. I'm not sure I would even consider Ao a 'true God'. He might be on their 'farm team', sorta the way demi-gods are the 'farm team' of the devine.
Ptah, or Chronos, or Ymir... now THOSE were gods! When you start building universes, then you earn the right to wear that title. ;)
The deities of D&D are little more then children with far too much power, in the cosmic scheme of things.