It's not labeled a Forgotten Realms article, but they're a pretty distinctively Realmsian monster; so much so, that it seems like an odd idea to bring them into "core."
Seems cross-overs are all the rage at WotC now.
not to mention bringing Gruumsh to core.
their product, but ...
One rules to rule them all....
And in the Darkness bind them,
in the land of Renton, where the Shadows lie. ;)
So far, the last three 'Realms' articles have all been about mixing flavors - Sharn for the masses, Warforged in FR, and Returned Abeir.
I wonder at what point our promised 'Realmslore' articles will actually feature Faerûn.
I didn't actually mean for this thread to be a complaint, just an observation. I actually think connecting the sharns to a dead world destroyed by Tharizdun long ago (or maybe a far-future version of Oerth?) is pretty cool, and don't see any reason it couldn't be the official Realms explanation.
If you want to tie the 4E Core origin to the official Realms origin I'd suggest replacing Tharizdun with Shar and have the sharn escape to Toril in the period just before the Dark Disaster.
If you want to tie the 4E Core origin to the official Realms origin I'd suggest replacing Tharizdun with Shar and have the sharn escape to Toril in the period just before the Dark Disaster.
Ehh, they could still be tied to Tharizdun in FR.
They have searched countless worlds, right? So having them find their way to Toril and then mingling with elves so what is thought to be the case is really the truth lost to history...
Hmm, maybe the DD was the reason the Sharn found a way to FR's sphere...
Thats it, one sentence.... DONE. ;)
And besides, everyone knows Sharn aren't an FR monster... its a city in Eberron. :P
If you want to tie the 4E Core origin to the official Realms origin I'd suggest replacing Tharizdun with Shar and have the sharn escape to Toril in the period just before the Dark Disaster.
Nightseer likes! Thanks.
but it's an excellent article, only short
Hmmmmm... maybe that's exactly what the Shadevari are...
Also, if I ran Eberron, I would DEFINATELY put them in the deep Undercity of Sharn, and say they were the original builders, long before even the Goblins. Its just too much of a coincidence to not connect them to the city in some way.
Also, they make excellent Aberrations, so linking them to the Delkyr is a no-brainer as well...
... maybe I need to start a thread in the Eberron forums.
city of Sharn, what's the need when you have Iriaebor
loved the article, it's my favorite after the Winter's Hall, despite the size there are many interesting parts
Tharizdun's story would be better imo, it doesn't exclusively say that they originated with with the Killing Storm
don't like Tharizdun's ''the shard of pure evil'' thing, with the Black Diamond it's even more boring, redundant
I don't know much about Spelljammer, but the Juna reference was great, always wondered if they had something with the Ancients of Malatra, guess not
Wish there was more on Rhymathiin, but why isn't the High Moor repaired? After a century it has to be.
another interesting part is an aboleth-like being from Sargauth who possesses abilities like the sharns and it killed Halaster's Manshoon, aboleth-sharn relations, that's a great mystery
city of Sharn, what's the need when you have Iriaebor
Having passing knowledge of Eberron's Sharn, I can say I doubt there's anywhere in the Realms quite like it.
Wish there was more on Rhymathiin, but why isn't the High Moor repaired? After a century it has to be.
The High Moor won't be fully repaired for centuries, as per Steven Schend. The cleansing ritual moves one inch per year IIRC.
The High Moor won't be fully repaired for centuries, as per Steven Schend. The cleansing ritual moves one inch per year IIRC.
oh, ok, I checked, the circle of 50 miles is cleansed (doesn't show on the map), and an inch per month
shadevari, not really
The original pre-Shar ones, not those reptilian things that look like Slaad.
city of Sharn, what's the need when you have Iriaebor
I'd use Sharn (the sourcebook is excellent) for Halruaa's capital as-is (I'd even call it Sharn).
loved the article, it's my favorite after the Winter's Hall, despite the size there are many interesting parts
I'm really tempted to sign-up for the DDi, but since I'm not running 4e, I feel I'd be paying for a a lot of stuff I have no use for.
I don't know much about Spelljammer, but the Juna reference was great, always wondered if they had something with the Ancients of Malatra, guess not.
Or the ancients in Maztica, who may or may not be the same as the ones from Malatra (both had Spelljamming tech).
Wish there was more on Rhymathiin, but why isn't the High Moor repaired? After a century it has to be.
One of my biggest problems with 4e is that the map doesn't at all reflect ANY of the 'drastic changes', except for the butt-crack in the Shaar (Shar's butt-crack... heh heh... heh heh...)
They made such a big deal about how the world has changed, and then didn't even bother to show us how. Thats got to be the most boring 'fantasy map' ever produced. They make-out Toril to be like Roger Dean, and then show us Rorshack. Another bad instance of good ideas implimented half-assed, and made to look like crap in the final product.
another interesting part is an aboleth-like being from Sargauth who possesses abilities like the sharns and it killed Halaster's Manshoon, aboleth-sharn relations, that's a great mystery
Hate Aboleths with a passion: One of my top-three "stupidest monster of all time" (barely beaten by the Flumph and the Umpleby). Of course, thats just my opinion - obviously some people like them.
Just go to any place where a Nuclear Plant is dumping into the sea and you can see real ones. :D
Seriously, in what way are giant catfish cooler then illithiads? Mindflayers are the bomb when you want Aberrational - Aboleths, and even Delkyr, can't touch them. Anytime I come across an Aboleth reference anywhere, my mind automatically changes it to 'Illithid' - Aboleths simply do not exist for me.
Aboleths are cool because they're antediluvian horrors of the depths with cold, calculating minds and armies of piscine servants. Their savants and glyphs, their alien architecture, the shaboaths, their eons-old memories, agelessness, their horrific ability to transform their victims, and their dominance over the Underdark's waterways and the oceanic depths all make them not only awesome and extremely useful but give them a niche that illithids simply can't fit into, let alone daelkyr. They're not designed for fitting into a "generic aberration" slot (what is?); they're designed for knowing age-old secrets, for raising armies of slime-covered fish-men, for being the hub around which the deep waters turn. And you dislike them why? Because they're aquatic? They don't look anything like catfish in any illustration I've seen, though mind flayers are undeniably sushi-headed purple dudes who got way too into brain-eating long after zombies made it passe. Haha, no, I like illithids and could wax rhapsodic about them too, but they don't do what aboleths do, and aboleths don't do what they do. Aboleths don't eat brains or flee from githzerai like screaming little girls, and illithids don't work very well for anything that isn't brain-themed. Aboleths are masters of the black waters, while if you put an illithid in the water it's either a kopru, a purple squid with a useless humanoid body sticking out of it (not quite as useless as a tirapheg's body, but close), or Cthulhu, and you can only have one Cthulhu. I say leave the squidheads to their brain-worship and embrace variety in your alien masterminds.
The original pre-Shar ones, not those reptilian things that look like Slaad.
there aren't any other other than the reptilian ones, the slaad connection is interesting but that would mean at least that Ssendam and Ygorl are older than the shadevari
I'd rather keep anything shadowy away from the sharns, the malaugrym are enough
I'm really tempted to sign-up for the DDi, but since I'm not running 4e, I feel I'd be paying for a a lot of sruff I have no use for.
I know a few people who are paying, not really worth it, Kobold Quarterly is decent
Or the ancients in Maztica, who may or may not be the same as the ones from Malatra (both had Spelljamming tech).
really, still not interested in the place, aliens and indians that's a little overused
One of my bigest problem with 4e is that the map doesn't at all reflect ANY of the 'drastic changes', except for the buut-crack in the Shaar (Shar's butt-crack... heh heh... heh heh...)
haha
Hate Aboleths with a passion: One of my top-three "stupidest monster of all time" (barely beaten by the Flumph and the Umpleby). Of course, thats just my opinion - obviously some people like them.
Just go to any place where a Nuclear Plant is dumping into the sea and you can see real ones. :D
Seriously, in what way are giat catfish coller then illithiads? Mindflayers are the bomb wheb you want Aberrational - Aboleths, and even Delkry, can't touch them. Anytime I come across an Aboleth reference anywhere, my mind automatically changes it to 'Illithid' - Aboleths simply do not exist for me.
I like them, and the aquatic campaigns that nobody plays, over the Underdak ones, sharks and squids would be boring, but catfish
though morkoths and shalarin are better, it's inspiring, that ancientness, life of the primordial waters
illthids sometimes appear too ''gothic''
daelkyrs are alright, they look like half-aberrations
Markus, your top three, seriously? Ahead of gorbels, tiraphegs, zorbos (evil koalas), almi'raj, minimals, nilbogs, Gargoyles of the Tors (dim-witted gargoyles with detachable wings that they're always losing), bubbles (exactly what they sound like), digers (which are helium-powered), ubues (three-headed humanoids with one head of a different gender than the other two), windghosts (flying inverted ice cream cones?), lava children (paraelemental Alfred E. Newmans), kara-kara (orcs with afros), decapus (hairy ten-tentacled tree octopuses?), autognomes, whitespawn iceskidders (dragon things with organic ice skates), tomb tappers, dohwar (space penguins), and diet soda elementals? Or, for that matter, goliaths? Seriously, if you think they're worse than frigging tiraphegs (the three-legged, one-footed, three-headed, one-faced, three-armed, one-handed, rotten corpse-eating, mouth-on-their-chest humanoids from the 1st-edition Fiend Folio) it may be time for an intervention.
I actually like most of those (even if a few are silly). I forgot about the Tiraphegs... I may have to make a 'top 5' list. :P
Diet Soda Elementals?
Where the hell are those from? I remember the chocolate Golem, but you got me stumped on that one.C'mon... Orcs with Afros are funny as hell. :D
I ran GH for years, and ran it based on Xanth (which was my favorite series back then) , so a lot of funny crap made it into my games.
Where are those Gargoyles of the Tors from? I may just have a #4 for my new list.
Diet Soda Elementals?
WG7 Castle Greyhawk had the Extracaffeinated Cola Elemental, Diet Soft Drink Elemental, Lemon-Lime Soft Drink Elemental, and Orange Soft Drink Elemental. Dragon #282 also had the "pepsoid," which is essentially the same thing. All those were intentionally silly, though, and probably shouldn't be lumped in with unintentionally ridiculous things like the tirapheg.
Where are those Gargoyles of the Tors from? I may just have a #4 for my new list.
They're from WG9, Gargoyle, written by Dave Collins and Skip Williams. The two most prominent Gargoyles of the Tors are called Rudy and Hubert.
I want to say, though, that I think the flumph is unfairly maligned. I can see why people thought a lawful good hovering jellyfish with a pancake-shaped body and antennae, which you could defeat simply by turning it upside down, was useless and ridiculous, but I find them endearing and likable. There's a lot of good uses for them in a campaign; perhaps they originated in the same world as the grell, and they come with warnings of an invasion. They're also good for advising the PCs on rat-related threats, for example an infestation of cranium rats or moonrats. There was a quality Ecology of the Flumph in Dragon Magazine, and a 3rd edition adventure involving flumphs that's worth looking at. They have an interesting mystical, monastic culture.
I have written the rather boring FR origin completely out in my games, it's a tale told by Elves but is completely untrue. Sharns are much more ancient and have much a more interesting motive ultimately for why they try to preserve magic (Keeping their dead world from utterly disintegrating once and for all). I'll concede that if FR articles are going to insert core material this good, I have no problem with them doing so; especially if the result is going to be superior to the respective FR origin or similar.
Since I can't read the DDi article, I cannot fairly judge between the two, but from what little was posted here, the Tharizdun thing does sound somewhat better thought-out.
@Rip - thanks for that - I have Castle Greyhawk, but it's one of the few GH procucts I never bothered to run - it was even too silly for me. The Gargoyles thing is starting to sound familiar now...
Can't believe Skip Williams name is on that... I suppose everyone has an off-day.