Super brief descriptions and virtually no mention of spheres of influence...
Hopefully there will be more info to come with the Realms Players Guide next month.
WotC ought to put out a Deities & Demigods book, with detailed information on the gods of multiple settings. Detailed info on the Core gods, the Forgotten Realms gods, Eberron gods, and maybe another setting or two (like, say, Dragonlance gods, or Ravenloft gods).
Good idea... Don't know if there is precedence for a book like this. Have they ever released a multi-setting book with info that DIRECTLY referenced the settings? I know Planescape and Ravenloft was multi-setting but they dealt with aspects of the different settings as they appeared in THEIR setting. This would be more of the other way around.
I know I'd buy a book like this.
WotC ought to put out a Deities & Demigods book, with detailed information on the gods of multiple settings. Detailed info on the Core gods, the Forgotten Realms gods, Eberron gods, and maybe another setting or two (like, say, Dragonlance gods, or Ravenloft gods).
agreed Exarch of Torm: Quests
Super brief descriptions and virtually no mention of spheres of influence...
-Welcome to 4e. Things were designed specifically with this sort of mantra in mind, to allow players to digest information easier, and DMs more ability to make up their own ideas and inject them into the setting. Smoke and mirrors, when you consider nothing ever prevented people from doing the latter, but whatever.
-I don't like the idea of leaving so many holes in a book designed to explain the setting. Especially when it's so drastically different in most places from the setting we're used to.
I know I'd buy a book like this.
As would I. It'd certainly sell far better than Faiths & Pantheons or Faiths of Eberron.
Good idea... Don't know if there is precedence for a book like this.
-On Hallowed Ground.
Just sayin'.
I mean, even if too much lore is confusing (and I don't think it is), I do think that the Campaign Setting book should have enough to understand the setting. From the sounds of it, it doesn't have enough to understand the Gods & Religions of the setting, which play quite a big part. Shame, but that's just one more cross in the 'Bad' column for the 4th Edition FRCG.
This goes for both the rules and FR, BTW. I think they just kept working on it, and working on it, and working on it...
Until it just didn't work anymore.
The preview boooks were chock-full of great ideas, but we wound up seeing very little of that in the final product.
Fortunately, a lot of us have our old books to inject all the flavor back into the setting, but I feel sorry for all the newcomers that think FR is a drab, dismal place to game.
Hopefully when it comes time for the next edition they will consider this and perhaps take a bit more time to let the project manager make sure that all the work fits as a whole, and follows established lore.
Until then we can only make the best of these realms and remember that a good adventure is a good adventure, regardless of the setting.
Did ANYONE read this thing before it shipped?!
-You know, if they wanted, WotC could hire me as the Forgotten Realms "guy". Nothing else, but Forgotten Realms. Just putting it out there...
But I thought you hated the new Realms? ;)
They certainly should hire you for an Elves book. BTW I'm using your take on the whole Green Elves as opposed to WotC Wood Elf/Wild Elf split notion. Much better IMHO.
But I thought you hated the new Realms? ;)
-Hate is a word that is reserved for a few things, a fictional book not being one of them. I don't like the new Forgotten Realms. That said, someone needs to sort out this mess and make it more appealing.
They certainly should hire you for an Elves book. BTW I'm using your take on the whole Green Elves as opposed to WotC Wood Elf/Wild Elf split notion. Much better IMHO.
-It's based on simply sociology/anthropology (Groups can be of the same race, but have different social customs), and established continuity (Elves do not evolve/When crossbreeding Elves, they breed true).
WotC ought to put out a Deities & Demigods book, with detailed information on the gods of multiple settings. Detailed info on the Core gods, the Forgotten Realms gods, Eberron gods, and maybe another setting or two (like, say, Dragonlance gods, or Ravenloft gods).
The dragonlance gods are already in the core handbook. It’s not as if Bahamut and Tiamat were not the only ones of relevance anyway in that setting.
I think the suggestion in 4e is that there are not that many gods, they just each have lots of different names in different planes. Bahamut is Paladine, Set (and maybe even Shar) is Zehir, Pelor is Lathander/Aumuanatar, Selune is Sehanine, Chantea is Melora. They probably will have a Deities and Demigods book, with 101 gods, but will probably speculate that many may be the same.
They certainly should hire you for an Elves book. BTW I'm using your take on the whole Green Elves as opposed to WotC Wood Elf/Wild Elf split notion. Much better IMHO.
What's his take on the.. ?
Better to ask him directly.
Karsus,
What is your take on elves?
Karsus,
What is your take on elves?
-Concerning what, specifically? Their overall story in the setting? How they've changed? Specifically what Bart was citing (Green Elves, and them being split into two different subraces)?
-It's based on simply sociology/anthropology (Groups can be of the same race, but have different social customs), and established continuity (Elves do not evolve/When crossbreeding Elves, they breed true).
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From the sounds of it, it's even less lore then we had in the 3rd Edition FRCS, which I felt was always a great introductory product into the setting. Not as good as the new Pathfinder CS, but that's neither here nor there.
I mean, even if too much lore is confusing (and I don't think it is), I do think that the Campaign Setting book should have enough to understand the setting. From the sounds of it, it doesn't have enough to understand the Gods & Religions of the setting, which play quite a big part. Shame, but that's just one more cross in the 'Bad' column for the 4th Edition FRCG.
You want to complain about the deities in the FRCG then you should check out the Greyhawk 98 material where it was a list of deities, no descriptions etc. Just a list...
J
-Concerning what, specifically? Their overall story in the setting? How they've changed? Specifically what Bart was citing (Green Elves, and them being split into two different subraces)?
What Bart was talking about. I assume Green elf is a term for wild or wood elves?
Such as Misty Vale Elves Gone Wild. :P
No?
someone needs to sort out this mess and make it more appealing.
Its appealing to many. The fact you don't find appealing, someone who until recently didn't actually play FR D&D, doesn't mean the book is unappealing.
You'd find more people who like the book posting here if you all weren't so hostile towards 4e and those who like it.
Otherwise I can't explain why so many really unimportant deities are left. So they removd Yondalla but kept the halfing goddes of aggriculture? They removed Ellistrae but kept the orc goddess of mothers?
It almost seems as if they had written all deity names on little pieces of paper and than randomly drawn lots for who is allowed to stay
I think somewhere during the process of "we have to reduce the number of deities, let's cut the unimportant gods" they lost their original purpose.
Otherwise I can't explain why so many really unimportant deities are left.
I think the idea was "we have to reduce the number of deities" and they removed the ones they weren't interested in. I don't think 'important' or 'unimportant' factored in - after all, as the setting designers, a god is only important if they say it is.
What Bart was talking about. I assume Green elf is a term for wild or wood elves?
-In 2e, the Elves who lived in the forests, and were all woodsy, were simply known as 'Green Elves'. There were basically two variations on the theme. The ones who lived in forest cities (a la Lothlorien), and got along with other Elves, and non-Elves, to a degree, and the ones who lived in the dark parts of the forest, as savage barbarians, fiercely territorial, and getting along with no one, for the most part. In 3e, the Elven race was retconned, and Green Elves were split into 'Wood Elves' and 'Wild Elves'. The Wood Elves were the ones that lived in foresty areas, and got along with others, while the 'Wild Elves' were the ones that lived in tribal barbarian societies. The problem with this was two-fold.
-One, the only difference between the two in the past was culture. The 'Wild Elves' were simply different in terms of culture. But, having a different culture doesn't make one of a whole different race. I am culturally different from a pygmy in Madagascar, but we are both Humans. What this retcon was saying was that cultural differences meant racial differences as well.
-The second problem with this was that it claimed that Wood Elves were created through years of interbreeding between Sun Elves, Moon Elves and Wild Elves. This cannot be the case, as Elves breed true. In other words, a Sun Elf breeding with a Moon Elf will produce either a Sun Elf, or a Moon Elf, not a Sun-Elf hybrid Elf. So, having a new race spring up from interbreeding cannot actually be the case.
Can someone read the Torm entries in the new FRCS and tell me they didn't just swap the name Tyr for the name Torm in each spot. It just seems to me that a god that formerly had a penance that made his priests help other goodly religions grow and prosper would not support a city that chose to make him the state religion.
Elturgard's not as bad as all that. Being the state religion doesn't mean it's the only religion, and that all other religions are banished. Amaunator, for instance, is held in high esteem. And the premiere order of Paladins which defend Elturgard are composed of Paladins of numerous faiths, not just those of Torm. The only religions being persecuted are the evil ones, and according to the Debt of Dereliction, they're supposed to be doing that. Point is, while no mention of it has been made, sadly, there's nothing to indicate that the Penance of Dutry has been abandoned.
Anyway, speaking for myself, I'd love to see a DDI article on the Church of Torm. Reestablish that the Penance of Duty is still, in fact, active, with the Church of Torm actively aiding the growth of the churches of Amaunator, Selune, Sune, Moradin, Chauntea, Corellon, and others in accordance with the Debt of Persecution. The Debt of Dereliction expanded to include the forces of Asmodeus, Shar, Gruumsh, Lolth, and so on. And the Debt of Destruction expanded upon to include the Plaguelands (I imagine the Purge Spellplague Ritual would be a popular one in the Church of Torm). And given what happened in Tantras, one can easily see Torm setting in place safeguards to ensure that history doesn't repeat itself, and what those safeguards are. That fits with the title of the ruler of Elturgard, the "High Observer". Might be he's tasked with keeping an eye on things for Torm.
The thing gets me is even the chart of the exarchs could have atleast had a column for the god they served. Oh well I really feel sorry for new people coming to the Realms for the lack of depth they will be missing out on.
Nope. Gotta read the Dominions part for those juicy bits.
-Hey, it's not my fault you don't like it, but it is what it is, and nothing's changing that.
Nothin’s changing your mind, you mean.
I'm aware.
Can't you just use the 3e flavor that you already have, if that's what you want? They left it out to make it more open-ended, which means each DM can use whatever flavor they want, which means you can use your old 3e fluff for the gods.
No?
Yes and no. Obviously you can use 3e as a backing for 4e. The problem is with the product. Take a look at the 3e FRCG and then the 4e FRCG. In 4e they had far less to explain, but skimped on present day details. In 3e they had far more to explain, but focused on creating some very interesting present day details.
Hell, just look at the font sized used in 3e and that used in 4e. You gonna pay equal for both books?
-The second problem with this was that it claimed that Wood Elves were created through years of interbreeding between Sun Elves, Moon Elves and Wild Elves. This cannot be the case, as Elves breed true. In other words, a Sun Elf breeding with a Moon Elf will produce either a Sun Elf, or a Moon Elf, not a Sun-Elf hybrid Elf. So, having a new race spring up from interbreeding cannot actually be the case.
And, yet, after that huge orgy between the three elven subraces, babies evolved. ;)
And, yet, after that huge orgy between the three elven subraces, babies evolved. ;)
-Nope.
-Nope.
Uh-Huh!!!
Good. He's snoozin'.
Next time he opens his mouth to snot-snore I'm lettin' this bladder loose.