Zhent Headless Horseman
Terrified Dalelanders describe seeing the Zhent Headless Horseman galloping through forest crossings and charging through night mists. The Horseman rides the twisted woody forest trails at full speed, trailing mist and mad laughter in his wake. Attempts to waylay the horseman have failed, and the body of would-be heroes are discovered when the mists clear, sans head.
Visitors to the area sometimes dismiss the tale of the Zhent Headless Horseman. After all, a similar story of a mysterious rider lacking a head haunting the Golden Way in Thesk turned out to be a ruse contrived by bandits who enriched themselves by demanding tolls, until they were found out.
However, in retrospect, perhaps the Golden Way bandits conceived of their ruse only after hearing of the Zhent Headless Horseman. All attempts to "unmask" the headless, mist-enshrouded rider have ended in the grisly deaths of the would-be debunkers, who are later found somewhere along the road with their own heads missing.
The Zhent Headless Horseman seems real enough, and the story of his origin can be traced by those with the means and might to get all the way to the truth.
Trials of the Zhentarim
The Zhentarim's Black Network of merchants, spies, and assassins began suffering unexpected reversals several years ago, though few enough realized it. High-ranking Zhentarim wizards covered up the specifics of each disaster, but rumors leaked out nonetheless. Even interested outsiders heard a tale or two about sudden raids on established Zhentarim merchant caravans, the loss of at least two supposedly secret cells in the Silver Marches, and the assassination of at least one important official in Zhentil Keep itself.
Though unsubstantiated, most believe the Zhentarim can trace their trouble to the appearance of shades in Anauroch, shades who claim kin to ancient Netheril now transfused with shadow's grim vitality. What complaint the Netherese have with the Zhentarim is a complete mystery.
Regardless of whether the Shadovar are to blame for the Zhentarim's recent tribulations, one fact is certain: a small Zhentarim garrison northwest of the Dalelands revealed itself, declaring its intentions to act as a source of mercenary might to any with the coin to pay for Zhentarim know-how and Zhentarim connections.
A surprising move to be sure -- when had the Black Network ever before showed any interest in advancing anything but their own schemes? Most suspect the Zhents made the offer in bad faith. Word in the Dales was that even while taking mercenary coin, the Zhents would report their activities all the way to Zhentil Keep, describing what they learned while supposedly pursuing commissions.
Other students of the Zhentarim believed such behavior was simply not in keeping with the egotistical dogma driving the organization. No, proclaimed these naysayers; the Zhentarim must face some sort of real, as yet unrevealed threat for the organization to take actions so at odds with their standard dealings. They suggested the network was attempting a full-on campaign to fill its war chest by hook, crook, and even "legitimate" means.
Gnoll Marauders
The "Zhent Mercs" as they came to be known, initially failed to find patrons. Dalelanders had no reason to hire others to deal with the threats gathering on their borders, especially if the cure seemed worse than the cause.
That is until a tribe of particularly vicious gnoll marauders from out of The Ride passed across the River Tesh, and melted into hiding within the green boughs of western Cormanthor.
Unexpectedly, terror gripped the Dales in the form of hyenalike humanoids that smelled of filthy wet dog and blood. The gnolls were either uncannily lucky in timing, choosing to invade while the storied defender of Shadowdale was absent, or else some higher agency sent them when the Dales were vulnerable.
Calling themselves the Beasts of Butchery, this aggressive gnoll tribe personified mindless slaughter. For them, existence was one long, wild opportunity for rapine and pillage. They claimed to be the mortal instruments of Malar, he that personified inhuman savagery. The Beasts took nearly demonic pleasure in causing fear before death, and in causing sorrow and hopelessness through vicious acts of destruction and torture. According to the few gnolls captured alive and at great cost, the Beasts worked toward a day when the entire world would be a wasteland populated only by gnolls feasting upon the heaped bodies of the dead.
When the gnolls struck a small hamlet, they consecrated the place of slaughter and destruction in Malar's name. When they burnt down a village and killed its inhabitants, they feasted amid the blazing buildings and decorated the ruins with the bodies of the fallen, impaling the remains on standing spears or hanging them from high places.
The beasts didn't bargain or parley. They attacked those who tried such weak methods.
In a fit of terror, a group of Dalelanders hired the Zhent mercenaries to track down and wipe out the gnoll infestation once and for all.
Zhent Mercs Against Gnolls
The Zhentarim garrison mercenaries answered to a wizard named X'fas Oleg, whose strangely red-hued flesh and tiny horns curling up from his brow marked him as a tiefling.
The field commander of the garrison was a tall man named Astin Lesander who had the trust of those beneath him, a rare thing in Zhentarim circles.
One thing seems clear, if nothing else: The mercenaries took their first commission seriously. They desperately wanted the coin promised them if they were successful. Within days, the Zhents swept away three outlying gnoll encampments, leaving only the central gnoll den, still hidden somewhere in Cormanthor.
Eager to claim the full commission promised by the Dalelanders, X'fas Oleg knew he had to clear out the original lair quickly, before the nearly defeated Beasts of Butchery slunk back across the River Tesh. As demanded by the contract he had signed, the Zhents had to produce the head of the demonic gnoll adept who led the Beasts as proof the Dales would never be bothered again by this particular horrific gnoll tribe.
X'fas Oleg took the sword of the Zhent mercenary field commander and drew upon it an infernal rune, something X'fas had been saving since he had seen it in a nightmare. He told the commander that when the rune was triggered, his sword would briefly gleam with vorpal appetite, and remove the head from a single enemy with the merest touch.
Thus armed with a secret trick provided by X'Fas, Astin Lesander and his mercenaries struck out by night, following a twisted, muddy track into a tangled stretch of trees the local foresters had long avoided.
And ... that's all that is known for certain concerning Astin, his rune-scribed sword, the other mercenaries, and the remaining gnolls.
True, the gnolls were never seen again. Then again, neither were any of the mercenaries, including their field commander, Astin Lesander.
Or, then again, perhaps he did return, after a fashion.
Zhent Headless Horseman Rides
Nearly three tendays after the disappearance of the mercenaries, on the dark of the moon, the Zhent Headless Horseman first rode. Like a demon in human shape, it raced down tree-lined lanes, trailing fog and bitter laughter in its wake. Witnesses say the headless form wore the uniform of a Zhentarim field commander. With one hand it clutched the reigns of a steed that seemed more canine than equine. In its other hand was a sword on which blazed a fell rune, a single letter of an infernal script.
The next day, the body of X'Fas Oleg, the Zhentarim garrison leader, was found in the otherwise empty compound without his head.
Ever since that night, the Zhent Headless Horseman rides forth, sometimes on the dark of the moon, other times when cloud cover seals away all the lights in the sky. Those who quail before the rider usually survive. Those who seek to bar the horseman's path are decapitated, and their heads are never found again.
Lair of the Zhent Headless Horseman
Most Dalelanders accept the reality of the Zhent Headless Horseman, and simply move aside when it appears at the end of the path and thunders forward. Others, less quick to evade the charging steed, or perhaps somehow marked ahead of time by the Horseman as prey, are not so lucky. Several people each year, at least, are felled in just such fashion.
Perhaps the time has come to put a stop Horseman's terrifying rides. Are you up to the challenge? Many questions want answers. In putting a stop to the Zhent, perhaps you will answer them.
Is the Zhent Headless Horseman some sort of reanimated remnant of Astin Lesander? Does the Horseman wield the blade prepared by X'fas Oleg the tiefling to shear the head from a single gnoll adept? Where do all the heads harvested by the Horseman end up, and why does the horseman reap heads in the first place? Does the Horseman return, month after month, because the original commission was never paid?
Look first to the old, twisted, muddy track that leads into a knotted stand of trees the local foresters avoid ...
About the Author
Bruce Cordell is a D&D designer, but during his twelve years in the game industry, he has dabbled in miniatures, board games, collectible card games, d20 games, and more. Bruce has over a sixty listed credits to his name, including the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Libris Mortis, and Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. His body of work also includes three published Forgotten Realms novels (Lady of Poison, Darkvision, and Stardeep), with more on the way.
Visitors to the area sometimes dismiss the tale of the Zhent Headless Horseman. After all, a similar story of a mysterious rider lacking a head haunting the Golden Way in Thesk turned out to be a ruse contrived by bandits who enriched themselves by demanding tolls, until they were found out.
However, in retrospect, perhaps the Golden Way bandits conceived of their ruse only after hearing of the Zhent Headless Horseman. All attempts to "unmask" the headless, mist-enshrouded rider have ended in the grisly deaths of the would-be debunkers, who are later found somewhere along the road with their own heads missing.
The Zhent Headless Horseman seems real enough, and the story of his origin can be traced by those with the means and might to get all the way to the truth.
Trials of the Zhentarim
The Zhentarim's Black Network of merchants, spies, and assassins began suffering unexpected reversals several years ago, though few enough realized it. High-ranking Zhentarim wizards covered up the specifics of each disaster, but rumors leaked out nonetheless. Even interested outsiders heard a tale or two about sudden raids on established Zhentarim merchant caravans, the loss of at least two supposedly secret cells in the Silver Marches, and the assassination of at least one important official in Zhentil Keep itself.
Though unsubstantiated, most believe the Zhentarim can trace their trouble to the appearance of shades in Anauroch, shades who claim kin to ancient Netheril now transfused with shadow's grim vitality. What complaint the Netherese have with the Zhentarim is a complete mystery.
Regardless of whether the Shadovar are to blame for the Zhentarim's recent tribulations, one fact is certain: a small Zhentarim garrison northwest of the Dalelands revealed itself, declaring its intentions to act as a source of mercenary might to any with the coin to pay for Zhentarim know-how and Zhentarim connections.
A surprising move to be sure -- when had the Black Network ever before showed any interest in advancing anything but their own schemes? Most suspect the Zhents made the offer in bad faith. Word in the Dales was that even while taking mercenary coin, the Zhents would report their activities all the way to Zhentil Keep, describing what they learned while supposedly pursuing commissions.
Other students of the Zhentarim believed such behavior was simply not in keeping with the egotistical dogma driving the organization. No, proclaimed these naysayers; the Zhentarim must face some sort of real, as yet unrevealed threat for the organization to take actions so at odds with their standard dealings. They suggested the network was attempting a full-on campaign to fill its war chest by hook, crook, and even "legitimate" means.
Gnoll Marauders
The "Zhent Mercs" as they came to be known, initially failed to find patrons. Dalelanders had no reason to hire others to deal with the threats gathering on their borders, especially if the cure seemed worse than the cause.
That is until a tribe of particularly vicious gnoll marauders from out of The Ride passed across the River Tesh, and melted into hiding within the green boughs of western Cormanthor.
Unexpectedly, terror gripped the Dales in the form of hyenalike humanoids that smelled of filthy wet dog and blood. The gnolls were either uncannily lucky in timing, choosing to invade while the storied defender of Shadowdale was absent, or else some higher agency sent them when the Dales were vulnerable.
Calling themselves the Beasts of Butchery, this aggressive gnoll tribe personified mindless slaughter. For them, existence was one long, wild opportunity for rapine and pillage. They claimed to be the mortal instruments of Malar, he that personified inhuman savagery. The Beasts took nearly demonic pleasure in causing fear before death, and in causing sorrow and hopelessness through vicious acts of destruction and torture. According to the few gnolls captured alive and at great cost, the Beasts worked toward a day when the entire world would be a wasteland populated only by gnolls feasting upon the heaped bodies of the dead.
When the gnolls struck a small hamlet, they consecrated the place of slaughter and destruction in Malar's name. When they burnt down a village and killed its inhabitants, they feasted amid the blazing buildings and decorated the ruins with the bodies of the fallen, impaling the remains on standing spears or hanging them from high places.
The beasts didn't bargain or parley. They attacked those who tried such weak methods.
In a fit of terror, a group of Dalelanders hired the Zhent mercenaries to track down and wipe out the gnoll infestation once and for all.
Zhent Mercs Against Gnolls
The Zhentarim garrison mercenaries answered to a wizard named X'fas Oleg, whose strangely red-hued flesh and tiny horns curling up from his brow marked him as a tiefling.
The field commander of the garrison was a tall man named Astin Lesander who had the trust of those beneath him, a rare thing in Zhentarim circles.
One thing seems clear, if nothing else: The mercenaries took their first commission seriously. They desperately wanted the coin promised them if they were successful. Within days, the Zhents swept away three outlying gnoll encampments, leaving only the central gnoll den, still hidden somewhere in Cormanthor.
Eager to claim the full commission promised by the Dalelanders, X'fas Oleg knew he had to clear out the original lair quickly, before the nearly defeated Beasts of Butchery slunk back across the River Tesh. As demanded by the contract he had signed, the Zhents had to produce the head of the demonic gnoll adept who led the Beasts as proof the Dales would never be bothered again by this particular horrific gnoll tribe.
X'fas Oleg took the sword of the Zhent mercenary field commander and drew upon it an infernal rune, something X'fas had been saving since he had seen it in a nightmare. He told the commander that when the rune was triggered, his sword would briefly gleam with vorpal appetite, and remove the head from a single enemy with the merest touch.
Thus armed with a secret trick provided by X'Fas, Astin Lesander and his mercenaries struck out by night, following a twisted, muddy track into a tangled stretch of trees the local foresters had long avoided.
And ... that's all that is known for certain concerning Astin, his rune-scribed sword, the other mercenaries, and the remaining gnolls.
True, the gnolls were never seen again. Then again, neither were any of the mercenaries, including their field commander, Astin Lesander.
Or, then again, perhaps he did return, after a fashion.
Zhent Headless Horseman Rides
Nearly three tendays after the disappearance of the mercenaries, on the dark of the moon, the Zhent Headless Horseman first rode. Like a demon in human shape, it raced down tree-lined lanes, trailing fog and bitter laughter in its wake. Witnesses say the headless form wore the uniform of a Zhentarim field commander. With one hand it clutched the reigns of a steed that seemed more canine than equine. In its other hand was a sword on which blazed a fell rune, a single letter of an infernal script.
The next day, the body of X'Fas Oleg, the Zhentarim garrison leader, was found in the otherwise empty compound without his head.
Ever since that night, the Zhent Headless Horseman rides forth, sometimes on the dark of the moon, other times when cloud cover seals away all the lights in the sky. Those who quail before the rider usually survive. Those who seek to bar the horseman's path are decapitated, and their heads are never found again.
Lair of the Zhent Headless Horseman
Most Dalelanders accept the reality of the Zhent Headless Horseman, and simply move aside when it appears at the end of the path and thunders forward. Others, less quick to evade the charging steed, or perhaps somehow marked ahead of time by the Horseman as prey, are not so lucky. Several people each year, at least, are felled in just such fashion.
Perhaps the time has come to put a stop Horseman's terrifying rides. Are you up to the challenge? Many questions want answers. In putting a stop to the Zhent, perhaps you will answer them.
Is the Zhent Headless Horseman some sort of reanimated remnant of Astin Lesander? Does the Horseman wield the blade prepared by X'fas Oleg the tiefling to shear the head from a single gnoll adept? Where do all the heads harvested by the Horseman end up, and why does the horseman reap heads in the first place? Does the Horseman return, month after month, because the original commission was never paid?
Look first to the old, twisted, muddy track that leads into a knotted stand of trees the local foresters avoid ...
About the Author
Bruce Cordell is a D&D designer, but during his twelve years in the game industry, he has dabbled in miniatures, board games, collectible card games, d20 games, and more. Bruce has over a sixty listed credits to his name, including the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Libris Mortis, and Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. His body of work also includes three published Forgotten Realms novels (Lady of Poison, Darkvision, and Stardeep), with more on the way.
-But, think on the bright side. At least we got the Headless Horseman, and not...The Easter Zhenty? Santa Zhent?
-Hey, MT, it looks like Dûdonahorz has an archenemy now...
-As I said:
-But, think on the bright side. At least we got the Headless Horseman, and not...The Easter Zhenty? Santa Zhent?
-Hey, MT, it looks like Dûdonahorz has an archenemy now...
18DELTA:embarrass
So... how is a plot hook around this guy different from, oh, I don't know, like any other creature borrowed from mythology and folklore?
-There is the concept of Realmsifying things, to a degree that they only loosely resemble the concepts they were based on. Say, like Russia and Rasheman. Here, the basic name gives it right away. At least he doesn't have a pumpkin head (for now).
I fint the whole article very interesting and sparked my creativity...as I find the whole notion that deities can be worshipped on differenty planets and live in planes that were connected very interesting sparked my creativity, or having lots of gods, or etc.
I find it interesting that they are getting rid of gods that are interlopers...yet have no problem stealing directly from folk tales. They are changing everything to be not like what we have...yet they do this? Can you guys make up your minds.
-Rich Baker has said, when I asked about the absence of Oberon and Titania, specifically (emphasis mine):
...but in general we're moving toward a mythology that's our own, as opposed to one cobbled together from real-world sources. We didn't come up with Titania and Oberon. There are some notable exceptions to this general trend (Tiamat, for example), but I think that's because the exceptions tend to be names that have played a very big role in D&D for a long time. Titania and Oberon haven't ever been very prominent in any edition of the game.
We get all the classic movie monsters, so it was bound to happen sooner or later.
Also, their is a headless ghost in Harry Potter, and the new game must appeal to the Potter fans, right? ;)
Now break out your wands (spell foci) and brooms, and lets throw down 4e style.
the fact that that was the best the Lead man on the FRCG team could come up with creative-wise speaks volumes.
:thumbsdow :surrender-There is the concept of Realmsifying things, to a degree that they only loosely resemble the concepts they were based on. Say, like Russia and Rasheman. Here, the basic name gives it right away. At least he doesn't have a pumpkin head (for now).
-
Now he does LK!!!
18DELTA
Okay, but again, how exactly is a headless horseman different from a clay golem or a harpy? The article is a plot hook revolving around one monster (or two, since it seems to be riding a nightmare), presumably some manner of undead who just happens to be a former Zenth in this case.
-Golems and Harpies have been D&Dified, and Realmsified. They basic ideas are simply based on the Jewish and Greek legends, but other than that, where are the similarities? In this case, there are multiple instances of exact similarity, whereas, in an ompimum world, there'd be cases of vague similarity. And then, of course, there is the originality concept. And, another factor as well...Instead of an entire article about "The Headless Zhent", our once-a-month-allotment of online articles could have been put to a much better use, explaining more about deities, or some geographical changes, or whatever else...
-
18DELTA
-I tried my best. I'm sure MT could do better. That said...
But when you are using a well-known story for inspiration, the basic rule-of-thumb is DON'T USE ITS NAME!
If I could get beyoned that, I suppose Stigger's right, and it wasn't all that bad. Felt more like a Ravenloft stroyline to me then FR, but whatever.
This doesn't need one of my cheesy mods -
But when you are using a well-known story for inspiration, the basic rule-of-thumb is DON'T USE ITS NAME!
-Indeed: "Tabot Syndrome".
-How do you pronounce 'Tabot', by the way. Do you say 'Tabot', as in rhyming with 'rabbit', like I do, or 'Tabot', as in "Tuh - Bot".
If you want, you could aways lengthen the name, like Tabot'
If you want, you could aways lengthen the name, like Tabot'
I enjoy the fact that, according to Mr. Cordell, The Zhents are heading to a more type of mafia, like The Godfather if you need a graphic example, and that's the way I use them in MY Realms, personally, I also think that's the way they should act overall.
I don't like the name nor the lack of depth, but it have potential, and without giving too much thought into it, I would use it being a plot by The Shades to diminish the strength and influence in The Dales and even The Moonsea, so The Shadovar could make a move to grasp some control in the area and profit from the vast commerce or any other reason/excuse.
Also, could be a move by the same Zhents and that would be great, a countless plots, even sacrificing minor pawns and resources, just to assemble some force in The Dales and any other area they wish, by creating a thread and then offering to resolve it, of course, no one would know that is all Zhent work behind the curtain.
Anyway, MY point is that is not an utter waste, it could be mold to fit some campaigns according to the profile.
i actually like it! Was about to use it in my own campaign!
I'd use it - I use just about everything.
The thing to me is, though, how much change does something need before I can use it?
In that article for instance, I would definately change the name. Then, I'd have the 'Zhent Garrison' be ex-Zhents - ones disillusioned after the Fall of Zhentil Keep debacle, and have been operating as an independent mercenary company for some years, and have had them help the Dales at least one other time (on their own, without pay, but probably because it was a mutual threat). That helps to establish why Dalesman (What happened to 'Dalefolk'?) would trust Zhents - obviously that 'adventure' (?) is supposed to be edition-neutral, but its showing definate signs of 4e.
The only other thing I have trouble with are the Gnolls - in some sources, Gnolls are depicted as quite a bit more civilized then Orcs and Goblins. You have the ones in Thay, which are a playable PC race, and you also have that group from the Erevis Cale novel, who acts as guides in the Gulthmere. On the other hand, you have authors like Mr. Cordell, who see them as little more then snarling beasts. Once again, we have two inconsistent description of the same creature, caused by writers. The fact that the authors bring their own likes and dislikes into the stories is a very bad thing, because it leads to rampant inconsistency.
I didn't mean for this to turn into another anti-novel rant, but really, they need to get their s__t together and all decide on the same things.
Getting back to the topic - I am developing Gnolls in the east as part of an ancient fallen empire, one that spanned all of central Faerûn right into the Hordelands. Like all empires, it broke down and became a bunch of seperate kingdoms, and eventually other races moved in and either killed them off, or drove them elsewhere.
In that way, I've patched some of the inconsistencies - You've got some tribes that have tried to hold onto their ancient, noble(?) traditions, and others that have embraced the savagery of their ancestors, becoming little more then animals.
There's a race of highly evolved evil Gnoll Nevromancers in one of the monster books, but I can't seem to find them now. Anyway, thats what I picture existing towrd the end of their 'great empire' period, and place it somewhere in the raurin (Desert of Desolation).
-Yeah, I preposed something like that in the Kara-Tur Re-Dux thread early on. It was the best alternative to simply changing the name, like I was mulling, at that point. I think I started referring to it, in the article I began writing on the nation, as "Uchan Tabot", since Uchan- or something to that effect- was the equivalent of kingdom, or some such. Unlike Elves, I actually have to look at my Kara-Tur books.
If you were to do that, I would say that was the name of the first Kingdom, after the Monks arrived and unified the local squabbling lords against a Kara-Turan invasion.
-Hey, there you go. A Kara-Turan dictionary, anyone? ;)
Just use Chinese - it amounts to the same thing.
-I tried my best. I'm sure MT could do better. That said...
For example, had they tied it to a specific well known NPC and made it more like an urban legend.
'Some commoners in Daggerdale say that the headless ghost of Lord Fzoul stalks the dale, seeking vengeance for his death, and all who see him lose their heads.'
See, that isn't so bad. You can switch Fzoul out for any other NPC, or even an unknown NPC who you introduce at the beginning of the article, and who was executed by having his head removed. (A bandit lord, for example, who terrorized the region and was finally captured and beheaded.)
A DM could then take that basic idea and incorporate it into their game. They need not use the bandit lord and may use their own villain. Whether the 'legend' is true or not would be up to the DM. Maybe it's a complete lie told in taverns throughout the region like typical urban legend - keeping the fear of the Bandit Lord lingering. Maybe it's something mothers tell their children to keep them from wandering off at night. Maybe it's a part of a bigger plot which has the Zhents behind it. Maybe a Necromancer found the headless body of the bandit lord and animated him as undead. Maybe it is all of the above!
But yeah... as is... it is dumb. It is like a poor copy and paste job.
What made it interesting for me though, was what wasn't said. A nice little thread was left dangling there with the infernal rune. Why was the one who possessed this 'vorpal' sword the one to return as a headless haunt? Where were his companions and foes?
What place did the infernal powers have in this faustian tragedy? Was it a sword-fight gone wrong? The price of infernal favours or an ironic infernal joke?
I like when someone drops me a little tidbit and leaves me to expound upon it. This one was no great inspiration, but it had a certain Je ne sais quoi. If nothing else it spins a certain new complication into the much overdone vorpal sword.
I like when someone drops me a little tidbit and leaves me to expound upon it. This one was no great inspiration, but it had a certain Je ne sais quoi. If nothing else it spins a certain new complication into the much overdone vorpal sword.
I liked that too. It's very Eberronian.
I'm thinking on expanding it a bit more (as I started to do above). Maybe I'll use the Varag from MM4 instead of the Gnolls - I just don't like them this far north.
Also, I'm thinking that after about a month or so, someone notices one of the victim's graves is open... it seems that on the next full moon, the headless rise as zombies, staggering off into the forest of Cormanthor. After a few months, you got yourself a really bad headless zombie infestation...
Which is a whole lot cooler then a regular zombie infestation (and quieter, because they can't go around murmering "Brains!"). Maybe even have it where the Headless Zhent can exert some sort of control over them, like a Vampire Lord does...
There are a few ways of building this up into something a little more 'meaty'.
Maybe the Headless guy was really a Harper in disguise, and he died wearing a Zhent Uniform... now he's pi$$ed off because everyone thinks he was a real Zhent!
And of course, all those people he's been killing... Zhentish Agents living in the Dales....
What a Twist! :D
Well, at least the choice of name (or the lack of it) is honest this time. I always groaned inwardly when I stumbled over some other blatant real-world-rip-off just patched over with a thin coating of bad names.
-I'd prefer that. At least it shows that someone tried.
-I'd prefer that. At least it shows that someone tried.
Nah, they didn't try. They just took something, stuck a similar name to it and were done.
That's not trying, that's lazy.
Nah, they didn't try. They just took something, stuck a similar name to it and were done.
That's not trying, that's lazy.
-It demonstrates that someone cared enough to think, "Gee, we can't use the SAME EXACT NAME. We need to think of something else.", which prompted some thought about what the name should be, which, indeed, demonstrates that someone tried.
Nah, they didn't try. They just took something, stuck a similar name to it and were done.
That's not trying, that's lazy.
Exactly.
What Bruce Cordell did there could be termed 'Honest Lazy'. :P
Isn't it amazing what you can get away with when your 'in house'?
If you handed a script like that to a producer he'd have you thrown out of his office.
-- George Krashos
"If Joe Blow in fanland had pitched it to you as a Dragon magazine article, would you have accepted and published it?"
-That certainly depends on what Joe Blow is like.
Isn't funny how they put out an 'open call' for articles, yet every one of the authors is known to us?
I wonder if they even bothered to read through any of the suggestions, or was that just another con? I just don't believe for one minute that the 'headless Zhent' rose to the top of the stack on it's own merit.
I think whats going on right now bothers me on so many levels its not funny, and 4e rules and 4e FR are just a small part of it.
I've always been of the view that the applicable criteria for any FR article that is displayed on this website should be: "If Joe Blow in fanland had pitched it to you as a Dragon magazine article, would you have accepted and published it?"
That would have NEVER made it into Paizo's Dragon Magazine - they had quality control. ;)
No, it should have nothing to do with the person's looks, personality, or anything else.
-That's not what I meant.
-If Joe Blow has, and demonstrates knowledge about the the Forgotten Realms, there's no problem. If Joe Blow's submission is "Driss'it kickz Elmansters's @SS111!!11ONE!!", there is a problem.
Isn't funny how they put out an 'open call' for articles, yet every one of the authors is known to us?
-Not true. Kameron Franklin, and Jaleigh Johnson are two "new" names. Well, that's concerning Forgotten Realms novels, anyway, and not DRAGON article submissions.
Also, new Novel authors are all fine and good (well, not really, because they probably know next to nothing about FR's past).
What I mean is the Dragon Article, which supposedly anyone can now write for, but that hasn't come to pass. Its like letting a politician count the votes in an election -
"And the winner is...... ME!!!"
Kind of self-serving, don't you think? It must be nice to be able to adjust your own paycheck that way.
Once again, VERY much like a politcian. ;)
Since you obviously agree with that, I'm really not understanding the point of contention here.
-Ask yourself that! I was the one who stated that it depends on what Joe Blow is like- and then further elaborated what that statement means, though I thought it was fairly obvious- and you are the one arguing here!
I thought you were disagreeing with us.
Oh well, maybe we both need more sleep... ;)
I thought you were disagreeing with us.
-How did you come to that conclusion?
18D
I have not looked at the article we are discussing here so I can't really give an opinion but I thought it worked well wehn I used it awhile back in my realms game.
This concept was presented in the Darklords supplement for Ravenloft a while back actually. The Headless Horseman Darklord appeared in the adventure From the Shadows in Ravenloft.
I have not looked at the article we are discussing here so I can't really give an opinion but I thought it worked well wehn I used it awhile back in my realms game.
Verily I know of the reference in Ravenloft to which you speak. Though it seems funny that BC would choose a Zhent HIRED by the Dalesfolk, then again a bit of change to make it original and fit the [cough cough] new Realms...
I may have actually played in a 2nd Edition game facing off with the headless one as the BBEG, either that or just had a nightmare about the potential thereof...
Sigh, yet another lame, poorly executed Reams product.
This concept was presented in the Darklords supplement for Ravenloft a while back actually. The Headless Horseman Darklord appeared in the adventure From the Shadows in Ravenloft.
I have not looked at the article we are discussing here so I can't really give an opinion but I thought it worked well wehn I used it awhile back in my realms game.
Please, take that non-hostile, sensible attitude OUT of the Realms forums.
All WotC butt-kissing is to be redirected over to Enworld. :P
All WotC butt-kissing is to be redirected over to Enworld. :P
-They do that there? I thought they had more malice than we do, at times, concerning specific details. Hmm...
-Well, either way, I still don't like 'em.
More like as in, "regardles if it is good" :P
Thats more then half, so I would say they are far more WotC-tolerent then we are.
The poll has to do with the fact that WotC has most likely just decided NOT to go OGL with the rules, just to screw over all the 3rd party guys who have been making money off THEIR rules.
What they think that will do is kill-off all of those little companies, but in realty all of them will be jumping onto Paizo's bandwagon, and it just creates a slew more bad PR for WotC.
Its a good thing that Hasbro is a huge corporation and is unsinkable....
Hmmmmm... is that an Iceberg I see up ahead?
Well, they just had a poll over there, and 59% (as of right now) say they will buy 4e material regardless.
As in "regardles if it is good", or "regardles if it is OGL", etc...
-That's silly. Why spend money on something that isn't good? I learned that the hard way, with Final Fantasy: Advent Children.
The poll has to do with the fact that WotC has most likely just decided NOT to go OGL with the rules, just to screw over all the 3rd party guys who have been making money off THEIR rules.
-In my own, limited sense of things, that's probably not a good decision, overall. One of the strengths of 3e was the Open-Game License, and the fact that there was so much stuff out there that was interchangable.
Its the old syndrome of when you do something nice for someone all the time, and then when you stop doing it they become pi$$ed. The game community has become used to the OGL, and you can't just take it away from them now. People have been 'jumping ship' like crazy since 4e was announced, and the Pathfinder rules didn't help matters much, but if this latest rumour pans out, your going to be seeing people dump D&D in droves, weahter the new system is good or not.
There's also the Warhammer RPG system thats been out for awhile, and unlike WotC, their miniatures don't look like hideously melted little blobs of plastic. ;)
A lot of people use 3rd party stuff - I own tons of it. They may not use an entire stting, but a lot of it is modular and you can the bits and pieces you liked. The OGL made that easy - if they don't go that way in 4e, I think there will be a huge backlash.
-Third-Party products also allowed WotC to flaunt their strengths as well, as there were plenty of third-party things that weren't that great, in terms of quality.
Its just a really creepy way for Wizards to control what other companies are producing, which is really terrible, considering the quality standards at WotC.
Well, they just had a poll over there, and 59% (as of right now) say they will buy 4e material regardless.
As in "regardles if it is good", or "regardles if it is OGL", etc..
Wow, this is a new low. The poll is, "Would you buy 4E if it were not open/had no licenses for 3rd party companies?" Where do you see the "regardless if it is good" part? The poll is about the GSL.
Its just a really creepy way for Wizards to control what other companies are producing, which is really terrible, considering the quality standards at WotC.
-Well, at the end of the day, the ruleset IS theirs, so...
And, Zhent mercenaries being hired by dalesmen? Huh? Since when? Oh wait, I forgot....
SPELLPLAGUE!
Bought one Mongoose Elfy book once. Was terrible. Absolutely terrible.
-What do you expect from a company that takes it's namesake from a small, cat-like mammal that is biologically immune to snake venom, and "giggles"?
Wow, this is a new low. The poll is, "Would you buy 4E if it were not open/had no licenses for 3rd party companies?" Where do you see the "regardless if it is good" part? The poll is about the GSL. Get your facts straight before, well, before lying.
How do you know he was lying? He could have just been mistaken.
Accusing someone of lying is pretty hostile (coming from someone who is apparently against hostility here!) and is deserving of being reported to a moderator.
Personally, I'd find it more interesting f they just named him 'Headless Horseman' than this whole Zhent crap in fornt. Just makes it silly. And, Headless Horseman, does not necessarilly mean Ichabod Crane's Headless Horseman, that is only the most famous thanks to washington Irving. The idea of a headless ghost has eben used in other mythologies and folklores. But, for me, the Zhentish Headless Horseman sounds silly.
This story is different from Irving's story anyway, as it has nothing to do with two men fighting for the hand of a woman (and IIRC, the headless horseman that actually appears in the Irving story might not have been supernatural...).
That said, I do think the title is awkward and didn't care for the article for a few other reasons. I have no problem with the article having a headless horseman in it, though.
How do you know he was lying? He could have just been mistaken.
Accusing someone of lying is pretty hostile (coming from someone who is apparently against hostility here!) and is deserving of being reported to a moderator.
What is this? Threatening with being reported? Sheesh, you should actually do it and not make empty threats. MarkusTay posted something extremely ridiculous, and it was very hard to be mistaken when the poll was written with no chances for misunderstanding. How do you go to "regardless if it's good" from "Would you buy 4E if it were not open/had no licenses for 3rd party companies?"
What is this? Threatening with being reported? Sheesh, you should actually do it and not make empty threats.
It wasn't an empty threat. I did actually report that post (hey, you suggested it anyway).
MarkusTay posted something extremely ridiculous, and it was very hard to be mistaken when the poll was written with no chances for misunderstanding. How do you go to "regardless if it's good" from "Would you buy 4E if it were not open/had no licenses for 3rd party companies?"
People make mistakes. You actually accused Markus of lying, even though you have no proof that he was. You could have pointed out the discrepancy without accusing him of deception.
Wow, this is a new low. The poll is, "Would you buy 4E if it were not open/had no licenses for 3rd party companies?" Where do you see the "regardless if it is good" part? The poll is about the GSL.
1st off, calling someone a liar is truly uncalled for.
2nd, the 'regardless if it is good' part is implied in the statement. They want to know whether one would buy 4e if it had no OGL.
Now, my answer to that is actually a difficult one. Before 3e I would have said yes. Now, well, no OGL is yet one more reason for me to not like 4e. Why? Well, back in the days of 2nd Ed, there was no one else making D&D stuff. If you wanted something the rules didn;t cover, you ahd to make it up yourself. After 3rd Ed, usually, you could find a 3rd party that covered it, and that was a good thing.
As far as WOTC saying no OGL for 4e, well, it might actually be bad for them. Gives the other compaines another reason to do what Paizo is doing and keep making 3rd Ed stuff. The 10,000+ Downloads of Pathfinder that Paizo got in one week shows there is still quite a market for 3rd ed.
1st off, calling someone a liar is truly uncalled for.
2nd, the 'regardless if it is good' part is implied in the statement. They want to know whether one would buy 4e if it had no OGL.
Now, my answer to that is actually a difficult one. Before 3e I would have said yes. Now, well, no OGL is yet one more reason for me to not like 4e. Why? Well, back in the days of 2nd Ed, there was no one else making D&D stuff. If you wanted something the rules didn;t cover, you ahd to make it up yourself. After 3rd Ed, usually, you could find a 3rd party that covered it, and that was a good thing.
As far as WOTC saying no OGL for 4e, well, it might actually be bad for them. Gives the other compaines another reason to do what Paizo is doing and keep making 3rd Ed stuff. The 10,000+ Downloads of Pathfinder that Paizo got in one week shows there is still quite a market for 3rd ed.
In a hurry here, but there was nothing else implied in the poll. Be serious. The GSL has nothing to do with the quality of the RPG. There are a thousand and a one excellent RPGs that aren't open.
As far as WOTC saying no OGL for 4e, well, it might actually be bad for them.
-As I said, the Open-Game License, and the massive oppotunities it opened for the gaming ruleset, is one of the major, and main reasons, in my mind, that 3e did so well.
And I didn't lie, nor was I mistaken. ;)
The 1st choice on that poll IS 'would you buy 4e regardless?' Not an exact quote, but I was referring to it being "regardless of weather WotC decides to make it OGL".
The second part of the statement WAS my opinion. Perhaps I should go back and make that clear? I think Keryth got the gist of what I meant there.
Basically, anyone who choose #1 plans on buying 4e no matter what, so yes, weather it is good or not does not matter to them in the least. As for me, I was planning on buying the 4e PHB, at the very least, before I decided if the system is worth my time or not.
That being said, NOT having an OGL in 4e will be a big part on how I make my decision (not that they give a rats a__ about my opinion or what I like).
I was never one to be a 'mindless lemming' and run for the cliff - believe it or not, I am still keeping an open mind about 4e, and will give it a chance. I will even give 4e FR a chance, even though I hate nearly everything I've heard about it.
I would never, EVER vote in a poll that I would buy products regardles of that company's legal (and moral) decisions. I have NOT purchased a single drop of Exxon gas since the Valdez spilled its oil all over the environment, and weather that makes any difference at all to Exxon, I don't care. I do what I feel in my heart is right (brand loyalty be damned!). To let a company know that their decisions will not effect their pocket is VERY bad form, IMHO.
Thats like voting for a politician just because of the color of his skin, or gender. I make my decisions based on facts, not because some mega-corporation has purchased the brand name and is now slapping it on crap. When they see that poll, they will say "Hey! Lookit that! They don't care what we do!"
When they figure that out (and they may already have), then god help us all. 4th edition will be nothing more then 'headless Zhents' and 'Fart Jokes'.
Thats like voting for a politician just because of the color of his skin, or gender.
-Plenty of others don't share that wise outlook...
Geez, such conflict.
And I didn't lie, nor was I mistaken. ;)
The 1st choice on that poll IS 'would you buy 4e regardless?' Not an exact quote, but I was referring to it being "regardless of weather WotC decides to make it OGL".
Markus, this is the poll you're talking about, right?
Again, where is this majority at EnWorld who'd buy 4e even if it was complete crap? That's just ridiculous. No matter how hard you try to spin this, the poll is not about the quality of 4e as a roleplaying game - it is about the GSL, nothing else.
"The Headless HorseWOman" would have been far more interesting, BTW.
Only if it were a drow
Headless Undead Priestess of Llolth on an undead Riding Lizard, now that would be...interesting :D
Anyhow, I ammended my original post to make my intentions clearer about that poll, and yes it was about the OGL, but Stigger has the right of it.
If you don't care about an OGL, it means you ae wlling to buy ALL your products from a single company. Now, if I was a great big company, I'd see that and sit back, rubbing my greedy lttle hands together in true evil-villain fashion.
But, of course, thats just me.
There's no way a big corporation would ever take advantage of the fact that their customers are commited to their brand no matter what. I'm sure they'll look at that and say "gosh..aren't they just the peas knees? Lets do something really special for them, and hire tons of new writers and artists and show them what quality is all about!"
Yeah.... thats what they're gona do, alrighty.
He's getting at an implication of 'buying 4e regardless', which in this case specifically does refer to its being OGL, but its not that difficult to extend that logic by saying that you're willing to invest in 4e and rely entirely on WotC to provide content without feeling the need to go to 3rd party providers. There is a certain uncritical element to it that I think that justifies his statements. Now can we get over this stuff and get back to our bickering over lore, rather than each others character?
Sure, but entertain me for a while still. Do you and MarkusTay consider non-open RPGs worse roleplaying games simply because other companies can't publish material for them freely without license? Are people who buy these games uncritical?
18D
-I know a..."Headless Warforged Horseman?"
-Do Warforged need heads? Can Warforged even be Undead?
-Do Warforged need heads? Can Warforged even be Undead?
-I dont know...it sounded like something, that the WotC OVERLORDS would try to do eventually.
:P I know a headless Death Knight Warforged Horseman!!!!
Warforged Zhents!18D;)
Sure, but entertain me for a while still. Do you and MarkusTay consider non-open RPGs worse roleplaying games simply because other companies can't publish material for them freely without license? Are people who buy these games uncritical?
I can't speak for Markus on that point, but personally, I don't have a problem with non-open RPGs, particularly since I played (and continue to play) White Wolf's OWoD line. What I do take exception to is buying something simply to support the product line... but that's utterly besides the point and largely a matter of personal belief. I was merely pointing out what I thought Markus' line of reasoning was, since it seemed to be getting lost, not commenting on its validity.
I'd be in favor of a femme version of the Headless Rider thing... would at least be somewhat different... though not by much.
Coming to think of it, a skeleton goblin adaptess on a skeleton worg, that would take the biscuit. ... Now wait, you'd not recognize a female or male rider, so make that a corpse-creature goblin adaptess on a skeleton worg, utilizing the corpse and bone creature templates from the BoVD respectively.
Coming to think of it, a skeleton goblin adaptess on a skeleton worg, that would take the biscuit. ... Now wait, you'd not recognize a female or male rider, so make that a corpse-creature goblin adaptess on a skeleton worg, utilizing the corpse and bone creature templates from the BoVD respectively.
Okay, now I'm officially afraid. Don't give Zanan any ideas for creepy critters, please. ;)
Okay, now I'm officially afraid. Don't give Zanan any ideas for creepy critters, please. ;)
Methinks I still got the bunch of worg-riding goblins I sent after your group ... hm ...
Okay, now I'm officially afraid. Don't give Zanan any ideas for creepy critters, please. ;)
-Kiaransaleeans can do some interesting things with corpses...
-This is what I still think about the "Headless Zhent!!!" 18D
I still agree with myself...BUMP...
Sure they may have ripped off Sleepy Hollow, but they do have a Realms Twist to it. It makes sense that hes a Zhent. It does seem kinda goofy that hes got no head, who ever heard of a lich with out a head? So when hes slain and he comes back again through is phylactery. what does he do just take of his head again? It would of been better if he had a head and they called him the Zhentish Ghost Rider or something.
I have plans for using the Ruins of Zhentil Keep, so Ill probably end up using the guy. I just might let the PCs find his phylactery and destroy him once and for all just for you Delta. 
Thanks. Also make sure its a Headless Manshoon.
Given the number of clones I have, sure, go ahead: use one of the old Model A14s that are still running around the backwaters of the Moonsea. I've got plenty to spare, and don't much care for those outdated models. Careful, though: They have a tendency to annihilate everything in sight.
Aww...shucks...
-This is what I still think about the "Headless Zhent!!!" 18D
I still agree with myself...BUMP...
You need to be spanked--violent-like.
--
18D, this has to be your most annoying habit....
still the same
-This is what I still think about the "Headless Zhent!!!" 18D
I still agree with myself...BUMP...You need to be spanked--violent-like.
--
18D, this has to be your most annoying habit....
I know...
Sow how impopular do I make myself if I say we actually used the Headless Zhent in an adventure... ?
Gomez
Okay, but again, how exactly is a headless horseman different from a clay golem or a harpy? The article is a plot hook revolving around one monster (or two, since it seems to be riding a nightmare), presumably some manner of undead who just happens to be a former Zenth in this case.
I like your way of thinking.
I find it interesting that they are getting rid of gods that are interlopers...yet have no problem stealing directly from folk tales. They are changing everything to be not like what we have...yet they do this? Can you guys make up your minds.
Couldn't say it better.
Sow how impopular do I make myself if I say we actually used the Headless Zhent in an adventure... ?
Gomez
Oh, I still like you, gomez. Just think you lack any imagination now.
The big question I have is who is he? Hes obviously some old Zhent of some importance. Lord Manshoon would know, Care to divulge that information LM ?
He wasn't of any real importance from what I remember. Had a bit of a story behind him, but that was it. Overall, it was just one of the worst pieces of fluff I had ever seen in FR.
He wasn't of any real importance from what I remember. Had a bit of a story behind him, but that was it. Overall, it was just one of the worst pieces of fluff I had ever seen in FR.
I didnt think it was that bad, lacking in orginality, but not bad. Im just saying hed have to be up there in level to become a lich. I bet ya hes NDA. I think it would of been scarier if he was a Vampire.
The big question I have is who is he? Hes obviously some old Zhent of some importance. Lord Manshoon would know, Care to divulge that information LM ?
Well, I certainly didn't lead to his demise. That would be Sememmon...
How the hell can you be a headless vampire?!?!?! 
How the hell can you be a headless vampire?!?!?!
Who said the headless Zhent is vampiric?
I think it would of been scarier if he was a Vampire.
I think it would of been scarier if he was a Vampire.
Oh. I thought Silver meant a Vampire instead of a Headless undead. So yeah: Silversword, explain please.
I think it would of been scarier if he was a Vampire.
Oh. I thought Silver meant a Vampire instead of a Headless undead. So yeah: Silversword, explain please.
Right right, I dont mean a headless vampire, Just a regular vampire w/ a head.
Well, then he would just be a ****ing vampire!!! What the hell is wrong with you?!?!
Well, then he would just be a ****ing vampire!!! What the hell is wrong with you?!?!
just a vampire makes more sense than a headless lich. Who ever heard of a headless lich? Thats just retarded. Thats all Im saying. It could of been anything, but they had to go with headless.
Well, the rest of that demilich had to go somewhere, and if it gets us more XP, then I'm all for headless liches.
Well, then he would just be a ****ing vampire!!! What the hell is wrong with you?!?!
just a vampire makes more sense than a headless lich. Who ever heard of a headless lich? Thats just retarded. Thats all Im saying. It could of been anything, but they had to go with headless.
Weak, dude. So ****ing weak. 
Well, then he would just be a ****ing vampire!!! What the hell is wrong with you?!?!
just a vampire makes more sense than a headless lich. Who ever heard of a headless lich? Thats just retarded. Thats all Im saying. It could of been anything, but they had to go with headless.
Weak, dude. So ****ing weak.
Whats weak about thinking a vampire is scarier than a lich with no head? I mean hes got no head, thats not scary at all, thats just less of him to kill.
Are you listening to yourself...? 
Are you listening to yourself...?
Listening to myself? Well Im not actually speaking out loud, but I read what I typed. Are you seriously telling me you dont think a Vampire is scarier than a Lich with no head? Im talkin about a REAL Vampire here not one of them ones that sparkle in the sun light.
Listening to myself? Well Im not actually speaking out loud, but I read what I typed. Are you seriously telling me you dont think a Vampire is scarier than a Lich with no head? Im talkin about a REAL Vampire here not one of them ones that sparkle in the sun light.
What would be the premise behind a vampire? Please tell.
I once dated a boy in High School who sparkled. He turned out to um... work for the other team. And not as a vampire, but as a dance instructor. But my oh my he was pretty, and the other girls hated me. Good times.
Now, that is scary. Listen to this chick.
The premise would be that he has a head. I just think Vampire seems more Zhentish, It was those priests of Bane who were always trasforming into Liches.
And yes I agree sparkley high school boys who start playing for the other team is far scarier than Vampires or Liches, I just may use that.
The premise would be that he has a head. I just think Vampire seems more Zhentish, It was those priests of Bane who were always trasforming into Liches.
Well, I think there would be quite a few mages in the Brotherhood willing to become a Lich if it meant a) avoiding natural death and b) providing greater opportunities to hone their spellcraft. That being said, I think if some Zhents could arrange to become Vampires, they'd go for that. But yes, the priests of Bane would prefer Lichdom, and most of the non-religious Zhentarim wouldn't be pleased with becoming any closer to the Banites in undeath. But, of course, average Vampire > above average Lich, with the notable exceptions being Szass "Super-Cheese" Tam and Larloch.
Criticising this for plagiarising Legend of Sleepy Hollow is a bit silly when elves in the Old Grey Box were straight from Lord of the Rings. It's a game, not a novel; if an idea works, you borrow it.
Criticising this for plagiarising Legend of Sleepy Hollow is a bit silly when elves in the Old Grey Box were straight from Lord of the Rings. It's a game, not a novel; if an idea works, you borrow it.
And halflings were just Hobbits.
To be honest, I don't like the ripped off Tolkien elves... Hin have at least managed to escape the sucking force of Tolkien and his twisted ideas of what constitutes good and evil.
Criticising this for plagiarising Legend of Sleepy Hollow is a bit silly when elves in the Old Grey Box were straight from Lord of the Rings. It's a game, not a novel; if an idea works, you borrow it.
The majority of RPG's do so--it's well known and common place. It's a world setting premise and far different than reaching for some deeper content and adapting as something as silly as the Sleepy Hollow tale to try and create depth for a setting.
They should of gone with something more like this:
I once dated a boy in High School who sparkled. He turned out to um... work for the other team. And not as a vampire, but as a dance instructor. But my oh my he was pretty, and the other girls hated me. Good times.
Only the girls?
Talking of which: whar if the headless Zhent wasn't male? I mean, people,assume the rider is male, but what if it was a woman, such as Scylla Darkhope. I realize the timing is not exactly right, but given that she has all the reasons to hate other Zhents it may make it more interesting.
now I wonder why they didnt do that, would of been better than a headless horseman of sleepyhollow deal
I'm going to go with the notion that something like that would require creativity, which was kind of in short supply at that particular period...
Stigger wins...
Talking of which: whar if the headless Zhent wasn't male? I mean, people,assume the rider is male, but what if it was a woman, such as Scylla Darkhope. I realize the timing is not exactly right, but given that she has all the reasons to hate other Zhents it may make it more interesting.
Well, unless it was Scyllua, who would indeed provide for a very interesting twist, what of it? If it was just "some woman", it'd be no more intriguing to me than if it was just "some man."
To be honest, I don't like the ripped off Tolkien elves... Hin have at least managed to escape the sucking force of Tolkien and his twisted ideas of what constitutes good and evil.
what?
anyway, a typical headless Zhent is better than the one that still has a head
I'm almost positive the identity of the Zhent headless horsemen has been answered in a LFR Cormyr module.
I don't think so. The Headless Horse(wo)man is located in the Dalelands, not Cormyr. It would need a particular plot twist to relocate him/her, and I am sure Andrew would have asked me if he wanted to use it, unless he somehow overlooked it was a Dalelands creature.
We did use the Headless Zhent in a Dalelands adventure (after a fashion), but you don't get to know more about him/her.
If you do find a reference in a CORM adventure let me know, so I can avoid conflicting lore.
Pierre van Rooden,
Dalelands Writing Director
Criticising this for plagiarising Legend of Sleepy Hollow is a bit silly when elves in the Old Grey Box were straight from Lord of the Rings. It's a game, not a novel; if an idea works, you borrow it.
The majority of RPG's do so--it's well known and common place. It's a world setting premise and far different than reaching for some deeper content and adapting as something as silly as the Sleepy Hollow tale to try and create depth for a setting.
I honestly fail to see how the Legend of Sleepy Hollow is silly. What exactly is the problem with the idea of a headless horseman? The story's at least 200 years old and has a perfectly respectable and innovative undead. It has certainly made its way into the North American imagination; heck, I can't be the only one who was introduced to it as a kid by the Disney showcartoon! :P
I think the point was that it could have been done in such a way as to be considerably less cheesy. Something like the Headless Zhent, versus the Forsaken Rider of the Twilight Way (or whatever)... while we all know its a transplanted idea, one's an unimaginative copy & paste job, while the other at least tried to differentiate things and tie it into some local geographic feature (for instance), with a hint of its origin. Headless Zhent just shows way too much monster, to the point that its caraciture, not spooky, creepy fun.
As to the Tolkien issue, not something I want to get into. Suffice to say, I don't like the man or his writing or pretty much anything else he ever did. Dry and bland would be how I'd describe his writing politely... more honestly, it would start with overbearing windbag and descend from there. So yeah, probably best avoided really.
They should have gone with something other than a horse. 
Nothing invokes fear like a headless warrior atop a basilisk or a massive boar that exhales flame.
They should have gone with something other than a horse.
Nothing invokes fear like a headless warrior atop a basilisk or a massive boar that exhales flame.
Yes! Now were talkin!
well atleast its name isnt Dung-Ra.... oh wait thats the balisk's name isnt it?
Talking of which: whar if the headless Zhent wasn't male? I mean, people,assume the rider is male, but what if it was a woman, such as Scylla Darkhope. I realize the timing is not exactly right, but given that she has all the reasons to hate other Zhents it may make it more interesting.
Now, that has more promise and premise my man.
anyway, a typical headless Zhent is better than the one that still has a head
Certainly better than a vampire with a head.
Silly ****.
I honestly fail to see how the Legend of Sleepy Hollow is silly. What exactly is the problem with the idea of a headless horseman? The story's at least 200 years old and has a perfectly respectable and innovative undead. It has certainly made its way into the North American imagination; heck, I can't be the only one who was introduced to it as a kid by the Disney showcartoon! :P
No, I was as well. And as a child, it is fine. But if that story traveled to North America in this day and age, it would not be taken seriously, nor even remembered. The only reason it could 200 years ago was because stories--no matter how off the ball--were a commodity to be kept and collected. There was no TV or Kanye West to entertain us back then.
As to the Tolkien issue, not something I want to get into. Suffice to say, I don't like the man or his writing or pretty much anything else he ever did. Dry and bland would be how I'd describe his writing politely... more honestly, it would start with overbearing windbag and descend from there. So yeah, probably best avoided really.
Thank Bejebuz! I thought I was alone in that sentiment! 
Certainly better than a vampire with a head.
Silly ****.
Id watch what you say man, youre gonna make the dreaded zhentish vampire with a head very angry!
not to mention that undead nation.....the other one not thay.
We laugh at such folly... you know, the stuff you biggin's get so worked up about... minor little things like Undermountain, demon lords, undead kings... its the really scary stuff like running out of Luiren's Best just after Aurora's closes, or the larders getting low that scares us.
Id watch what you say man, youre gonna make the dreaded zhentish vampire with a head very angry!
Good. Then I'll be able to cut off his ****ing head and make myself feel better.
and it farts flames?? and shoots lightning bolts out of its exposed throat
Yeah and that too. And it can fly!
I just can't wait to see the stats for that.
Well, then he would just be a ****ing vampire!!! What the hell is wrong with you?!?!
just a vampire makes more sense than a headless lich. Who ever heard of a headless lich? Thats just retarded. Thats all Im saying. It could of been anything, but they had to go with headless.
Weak, dude. So ****ing weak.
Whats weak about thinking a vampire is scarier than a lich with no head? I mean hes got no head, thats not scary at all, thats just less of him to kill.
ROFL ^^