The Magister [4e]

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

ampithere

Feb 24, 2009 15:04:23
Is it reasonable to believe that, despite the fact that special powers associated with the office no longer function, the office of Magister might still exist in name? Would that office still carry with it access to unique and powerful magic, in the form of secretive lore? Is it reasonable to think that it may now be an office associated with the church of Oghma, or perhaps Selune? I am asking all of these questions because I'm considering attempting to write a homebrew epic destiny that would allow players to become the Magister. I just need to make sure that it is a logical destiny to have before making it.
#2

krownhunter07

Feb 24, 2009 15:12:01
...No... It was a GoM and Azuth thing, both are dead now.

*Edit; this doesn't mean that it can't work in your game. It just doesn't seem likely to be canon.
#3

baneofelves

Feb 24, 2009 15:12:55
I thought that the magister served Mystra/Azuth? With them dead, there would be no point. BUT, one of the surviving gods may have adopted the idea. Go for it.
#4

markustay63

Feb 24, 2009 15:57:53
I believe the OP sated that it would just be a title, without granting any benefits, in which case I can definately see it.

Sort of like being the World Wrestling Champion - until someone sneaks up behind you and thwacks you with a Chair of Folding. :D

Maybe you can even give him one of those big, gaudy belts... :P
#5

ampithere

Feb 24, 2009 16:18:19
Lol, ok. I'm going to try making the Epic Destiny. What deity seems most likely to have adopted the idea?
#6

lord_karsus

Feb 25, 2009 9:31:20
-This thread belongs in the Realmslore section. It'll be moved.
#7

lord_karsus

Feb 25, 2009 9:32:18
-The Magister, as the position used to be, may or may not still exist. The Magister might not have the divine backing of a patron, but such a person- a "champion of magic"- can certainly still exist, yes.
#8

krownhunter07

Feb 25, 2009 12:07:15
Well, if you want to have divine sponsorship, Corellon is the closest to a GoM that I can think of... That might be core, though.
#9

lord_karsus

Feb 25, 2009 13:09:02
-Yeah, he isn't really a deity of magic as much as he is a sponsor of magic, or a keeper of a specific subtype of magic.
#10

ampithere

Feb 25, 2009 13:47:42
Yeah, Corellon seems tied too strongly to the Elves/Eladrin to sponsor a champion of magic that did not belong to those races.
#11

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Feb 25, 2009 21:28:17
Yeah, Corellon seems tied too strongly to the Elves/Eladrin to sponsor a champion of magic that did not belong to those races.

Well, aren't the gods supposed to be less racially-tied in 4E?

Anyway, since it's your game, I see nothing wrong with your idea. A 4E Magister would be drastically different from the old one, but that doesn't mean you can't use the title.
#12

lord_karsus

Feb 25, 2009 22:11:59
Well, aren't the gods supposed to be less racially-tied in 4E?

-Doesn't change the fact that, for 32,000 Faerûnian years, give or take, they were. Like Steve Schend said, and I am paraphrasing, you can throw away plenty of things with rule revisions, but when push comes to shove with lore, you can't throw away plenty of years of established lore so easily. Elves still worship Corellon Larethian, Dwarves still worship Moradin, Halflings Yondella, and so on- at the very least, president demonstrates that these deities have been the bastions of support for these cultures of millennia, and that their worship, by virtue of where their churches/shrines are, or who is/is not allowed as clergy members in their church, is centered primarily in those communities.
#13

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Feb 25, 2009 22:19:17
I did not suggest or imply throwing anything away. It's possible that things might simply have changed over time, and even if they haven't, that doesn't mean the OP can't tweak things for his own game.
#14

lord_karsus

Feb 25, 2009 23:26:29
It's possible that things might simply have changed over time...

-100 years isn't sufficient for such a radical change as eliminating racial identities from deities (who's main worshipers are longer-lived races), in which their main centers of "spreading the word" and teaching their dogma are in the communities of specific races. Even here, on Earth, 1,500 or so years after Christianity was established, more or less, there is still argument and debate about what Jesus really looked like- was he fair skinned, blue eyed, and blonde haired, or was he dark skinned, dark haired, and dark eyed? In only 100 years, hardly any of that kind of stuff is going to be hammered out.
#15

sfdragon

Feb 25, 2009 23:43:32
well my beaf with the magister , is that it was a title in previous editions with some nice abilities.
some of the abilities were shown the door in 4e.


along with the chosen epic path, it should be a template with nice abilities still instead of an epic destiny.
#16

markustay63

Feb 26, 2009 0:43:22
Make the Magister an Exarch, and then have it where only someone completing the Magister epic Path can replace him (quite spectacularly, I would imagine).

It would be like having an ever-changing demi-god. :D
#17

sfdragon

Feb 26, 2009 1:27:08
Exarch of who though.



A Magister of the Moon

A Magister of the Dark

A Magister of Arvandor
#18

lord_karsus

Feb 26, 2009 10:04:31
Make the Magister an Exarch, and then have it where only someone completing the Magister epic Path can replace him (quite spectacularly, I would imagine).

It would be like having an ever-changing demi-god. :D

-Someone who could take the place of Azuth, more or less.
#19

markustay63

Feb 26, 2009 15:52:12
I'd say Selune would be the best fit, since she got the 'Arcane' half of Mystra's power.

She'd also still be able to grant Silver (Moon) Fire.
#20

lord_karsus

Feb 26, 2009 16:27:37
-I'd rather no one replace Mystra, and she stays "dead" and gone, and the position of Deity of Magic vacant, but magicians have someone to "look up to" for guidance, or whatever else. The position of Magister was simply to proliferate magic and all of that, and regardless of Mystra being dead or not, the position could still very well warrant being present (albeit, not backed by any divine patron, now).
#21

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Feb 26, 2009 23:20:42
-100 years isn't sufficient for such a radical change as eliminating racial identities from deities...

I did not argue any such thing. All I did was suggest that it was possible for things to have changed over time.

And for your information, I do not feel like debating over this.
#22

ampithere

Feb 27, 2009 4:53:14
-I'd rather no one replace Mystra, and she stays "dead" and gone, and the position of Deity of Magic vacant, but magicians have someone to "look up to" for guidance, or whatever else. The position of Magister was simply to proliferate magic and all of that, and regardless of Mystra being dead or not, the position could still very well warrant being present (albeit, not backed by any divine patron, now).

Personally, I'd love to see a new god of magic, as the gods of magic were always my favorites in the pantheon. However, it's very difficult to do that in 4e, especially if players want to see their characters show up in a later campaign. I can't have one of them be the new god of magic because then, it stands to reason, that the Spellplague would be removed. Which is what brought me to the magister in the first place. Just as you said, to give magicians someone to look up to.
#23

markustay63

Feb 27, 2009 8:26:17
I think I could get behind Corellon as a god of magic. It will take some getting used to, since I always thought of him as the 'Elf God', but once I get used to the non-racial nature of deities (which was always really the case - Deity IS a race!) I can grow to like it.

I still prefer a 'moon Goddes' over anything else though, but Selune is just too damn boring to me. I'd much rather have had it where Selune died and Eilistraee (who actually has some personality) took the power and portfolio and became multi-racial.

Eilistraaee even makes a better juxtapostion to Shar's creamy white skin and black hair.
#24

lord_karsus

Feb 27, 2009 10:36:39
Personally, I'd love to see a new god of magic, as the gods of magic were always my favorites in the pantheon. However, it's very difficult to do that in 4e, especially if players want to see their characters show up in a later campaign.

-Simply having a deity of magic, there's nothing wrong with that. In my own setting, I have an entity that grants magic, but it is completely neutral, and doesn't really interact with it's followers or anything. If a new deity of magic was instituted, as long as it was something akin to that, I- and many others- wouldn't have a problem. If a deity of magic like Mystra returned, the entire point of the designers removing her would disappear- the perception was that she ran around like a tyrant, denying evil people from using magic, and commanding her Chosen to do battle with evil all the time. Removing Mystra- and that perception- brought more 'fans' to the setting. Reconstituting her would be counter effective, since it would, more likely than not, drove those new 'fans' away from the setting again.