I mean he race that the lizardfolk say was the first creator race.
Any bit of information will help, so thanks ahead.
Is there any information about them?
I mean he race that the lizardfolk say was the first creator race.
Any bit of information will help, so thanks ahead.
Maybe you're referring to the sarrukh?
Well here's a new referral I'm currently reading...just thought of sharing it with you.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sarrukh
18DELTA :coolcthul
-Check out "Serpent Kingdoms" by "Darrin Drader" it will have alot of information.
18DELTA :coolcthul
-Yes, Serpent Kingdoms is the major source for information about the Sarrukh.
-While the premise of that book was good, I think it would have been pretty cool to entitle the theoretical book "The Creator Races", and have a chapter detailing each, plus timelines, and all of that stuff.
I think it would have been pretty cool to entitle the theoretical book "The Creator Races", and have a chapter detailing each, plus timelines, and all of that stuff.
Or better still: give each creator race their own book. I'm with you in craving more info about the creator races. I would love to see sequels published such as Sylvan Kingdoms, Swampy Kingdoms and Soaring Kingdoms. I would dearly love to read whole tomes about the Fey, the Batrachi and the Aearee.
Or better still: give each creator race their own book. I'm with you in craving more info about the creator races. I would love to see sequels published such as Sylvan Kingdoms, Swampy Kingdoms and Soaring Kingdoms. I would dearly love to read whole tomes about the Fey, the Batrachi and the Aearee.
-That would have been nice, but there would have been too much lopsidedness, I think. The Sarrukh, they had a fairly larger impact on the planet than the Batrachi, the Aearee, and the Fey. Sure, new information could have been made up for said theoretical sourcebooks, but I think that point in which brows would have begun to raise, and people would have begun to say to themselves, "Gee, if the Fey, or the Batrachi, or the Aearee did so much, if they did all of this, why is there so little information about them?". AGHotR, for example, gets past these creator times fairly quickly. 150-200 page books, for each, I think WotC would have been stretching for information, while a single consolidated book, with the same page count, would have probably not been enough. Two books, maybe? The Creator Races I and The Creator Races II.
-There really isn't a better way to lump different Creator Races together, and then use snazzy names like Serpent Kingdoms, Sylvan Kingdoms, and so on, is there?
-Yes, Serpent Kingdoms is the major source for information about the Sarrukh.
Additionally, there's also some sarrukh-related lore in Lost Empires of Faerûn, because of the Terraseer. And the 1e Lords of Darkness also has one, which is where they appeared originally. It should be noted however that Hsssthak of Isstossef wasn't originally described as a sarrukh. It wasn't until the release of Serpent Kingdoms, which later clarified that. He's mentioned in the "Mummies" adventure on pg. 34, and then is more fully described on pages 80 and 81. His identifcation as a sarrukh occurs on pg. 96 of Serpent Kingdoms.
But now I'm dating myself...
...which isn't all that bad, because I only have to buy one movie ticket, and I'm guaranteed to 'get lucky'. :P
On Topic:
I've postulated in several forums my belief that there were actually several subraces amongst the Sauroids, and the Sarrukh - who dabbled more in the 'darker side' of Arcane magic - eventually became dominant and exiled the rest off-world.
Hence, the Saurials. :D
They weren't lost... they had just come home.
And I base that on the fact that there are an identical group of (canon) creatures living in Malatra, called the Lacerials. They have always lived on Toril, so it stands to reason that this was one group of Sauroids that escaped the Sarrukh banishment of their fellow 'Dinotopians'.
Except for the canon existance of the Lacerials, all of that is conjecture (Homebrew), but I like the idea of the Saurials and Sarrukh being connected in the distant past.
The Creator race has been described in several sources as a Sauroid Race, and I have always likened them to the kind of creature that might have developed from Raptors, had Dinosaurs not been wiped out. Sauroids are NOT lizards, or serpents, and only might have been reptiles - although D&D takes the side that Sauroids were warm-blooded, which leads me to assume that that is the limiting factor behind the Sarruhk ability to 'change' other scaley creatures - it only works on cold-blooded scaleyfolk (because it doesn't work on Dragons and themselves).
The CANON sources specifically say the Sarrukh are sauroids, and the Saurials are also sauroids - meaning both groups are descended from Dinosaurs, and since the Lacerials are saurial, and native to Toril, it stands to reason the Sarrukh and Saurials are indeed related (consider that there are FOUR different types of Saurials, and the novels mention that there are indeed other types... and yet the Lacerials have the same exact number of the same exact types - methinks there is at least one missing 'sauroid' species in Toril's distant past, and the Sarrukh fit the bill perfectly).
Just as Homosapiens became the dominant form of man on Earth, so too, I feel, did the Sarrukh become the dominant form of Sauroid.
Like I said, its just a theory... but Saurukh certainly aren't lizards in the canon Realms.
The saurials are lizardfolk...well so says http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Saurial tho'
The Wiki is WRONG.
Saurials are a form of Scaleykind*, but they are NOT Lizards, or even reptiles.
*Which is a D&D term, and not anything scientific, connectiong various scaley species together under one heading.
Edit: It is now fixed - I wish people would stop using their own homebrew versions of stuff in the Wiki.
EDIT: No wait...it was never mentioned that they were lizardfolks!! Why'd I put in that they were lizardfolk?
My eyes must be playing tricks on me!! WAAAGGGH!!!
Lizards are reptiles, and therefore Saurians CANNOT be Lizardfolk.
If someone - like LK - wants to spin them that way in his or her game, I have no problem with that, but the Wiki needs to be accurate.
The CANON sources specifically say the Sarrukh are sauroids, and the Saurials are also sauroids - meaning both groups are descended from Dinosaurs...
-That's where I, personally, make the differentiation. I consider Saurials direct descendants of Dinosaurs, while Sarrukh are direct descendants of lizards (who, in turn, could have been descendants of dinosaurs).
If someone - like LK - wants to spin them that way in his or her game, I have no problem with that, but the Wiki needs to be accurate.
-Hey, I didn't touch the Wiki, if that's what you're insinuating. I don't use the Forgotten Realms Wiki for the just experienced mention.
-On a slightly related note, on the regular Wikipedia entry for Kara-Tur, I was going to add a link to the Kara-Tur Re-Dux. Should I? :angelhide
-Hey, I didn't touch the Wiki, if that's what you're insinuating. I don't use the Forgotten Realms Wiki for the just experienced mention.
Sorry - I didn't mean you. :embarrass
I just note that some entries over there are 'flavored' by the authors interpretations of things. I would just like to see the entries be more 'neutral' (although its hard to write something without personal opinions creeping in).
As a matter of fact, I don't mind the Sarrukh being 'advanced' Lizardfolk at all, and its not a half-bad idea. I don't use them myself, so I don't care which way people go with them, I just wanted to clarify that there was canon information regarding them being warm-blooded, and therefore 'Lizardfolk' is innacurate, except, perhaps, as just a descriptive term (not a scientific one).
-On a slightly related note, on the regular Wikipedia entry for Kara-Tur, I was going to add a link to the Kara-Tur Re-Dux. Should I? :angelhide
If you want - right now the Kara-Tur Redux thread doesn't really have any usable links, but I suppose if someone wanted to sift through it they could gleen some useful stuff.
Granted, Serpent Kingdoms expanded significantly on that, but we always had some basic facts to work with before the release of that particular tome.
Sorry - I didn't mean you. :embarrass
-Oh, okay.
As a matter of fact, I don't mind the Sarrukh being 'advanced' Lizardfolk at all, and its not a half-bad idea. I don't use them myself, so I don't care which way people go with them, I just wanted to clarify that there was canon information regarding them being warm-blooded, and therefore 'Lizardfolk' is innacurate, except, perhaps, as just a descriptive term (not a scientific one).
-*I*, when *I* said it, meant 'Lizard People' and 'Dinosaur People' as descriptive terms, and not scientific ones. I would hope that said terms aren't scientifically accepted, anyway. If so...
I liked it more when the creator races were a mystery, **** SK
-I can agree with the statement, despite my want for my information about them all. I am of the same mind concerning the Crown Wars, for example. Knowing "too much" would make the era lose a lot of it's mystique.
I don't think the concept of the "creator races" has every really been a *true* mystery. Their first mention in the Realmslore, by Paul Jaquays [the 'creator' of the concept] in FR5 The Savage Frontier, nailed down some pretty firm facts about what they were like and how they were composed.
I know, and that was enough, no need revealing who's Terraseer, bringing their realm back, now we have nothing
-I can agree with the statement, despite my want for my information about them all. I am of the same mind concerning the Crown Wars, for example. Knowing "too much" would make the era lose a lot of it's mystique
yea, I wouldn't mind seeing more about the wars, but the authors must know how to ''strategically'' arrange these mystery stories, not thrive on the good old ideas of others
yea, I wouldn't mind seeing more about the wars, but the authors must know how to ''strategically'' arrange these mystery stories, not thrive on the good old ideas of others
-Well, even if they write really good stories, I don't think I'd appreciate it. I'd want to see, if anything, a short story or two, not an entire novel series, or sourcebook.
If the authors thought-up their own friggin' ideas!
What a concept!
I REALLY hate it when they use-up all the game plot-hooks. Don't sell them to us if you are going to use them yourselves.
Thats like the guy at Burger King eating the cheeseburger for you.
!18DELTA (Chosen of Cyric) :D
You know what would be really cool?
If the authors thought-up their own friggin' ideas!
What a concept!
I REALLY hate it when they use-up all the game plot-hooks. Don't sell them to us if you are going to use them yourselves.
Thats like the guy at Burger King eating the cheeseburger for you.
I changed the info to match at least two different sources that explicitly state that they are NOT reptiles because they are NOT cold-blooded.
Lizards are reptiles, and therefore Saurians CANNOT be Lizardfolk.
If someone - like LK - wants to spin them that way in his or her game, I have no problem with that, but the Wiki needs to be accurate.
Are you saying that ur one of the guys who manages that site?
thats why they're not all that reliable.
I did a few entries for the regular Wiki (not the FR one) awhile back, and they were deleted because they concerned 'fictitious material'.
I kid you not.
And yet at least half the articles on there are about fictitious persons, places, and events.
Go figure.