I don't mean deity or divine being but a mortal weather its via lichdom or a ancient elf and or dragon.
-Odds are, the oldest continually existing being is some individual that we've never had stats or stories about. Arymycos (Sp?) perhaps. If you want to get really speculatory, we know that the leShay opened portals from the Plane of Faerie and the Prime Material Plane in -28,000 DR. Fast forward a bit, and we know that the only canon settlement of leShay on Faerûn, is/was led by Queen Ordalf. There's a possibility that the leShay following Queen Ordalf was among the leShay who opened the portals to/from The Plane of Faerie and the Prime Material Plane. That'd make her about 30,000 years old, at the very least. It's a seemingly plausibly hypothesis, and nothing more. Personally, I don't like it, and wouldn't support it.
Everytime someone creates cool lore, someone else has to top it with something 'Kewler'.
Thats why we now have something even older then the Creator Races... stupid psionic catfish...
Yup.
Everytime someone creates cool lore, someone else has to top it with something 'Kewler'.
Thats why we now have something even older then the Creator Races... stupid psionic catfish...
HEY
I like psionics..... 
Its not what it does, but rather the word itself I find offensive in a fantasy setting. Even 'Mindmage' is better then 'Psionicist'. They should just call them Mystics in D&D (which I prefer over Mentalist, which also has a more modern conotation).
As for the Abortionliths... I think the only place 'scarey fish' belong is on my dinner plate. ;)
-I like Psionics and Aboleth!
I've long used the Invisible Art in my Realms. Much like Ed, I use it sparingly. Usually in the form of some characters having 'wild talents' [minor personal powers].
Though I've never had an opportunity to effectively use aboleths in my Realms, they feature predominantly in my RAVENLOFT games.
As far as 'psionics' (which is a misnomer- it should be called 'psychogenics'), I agree with MT. Psi-anything has never felt right for Fantasy to me, and I exclude it along with smokepowder from my games.
BTW Does anyone know how long Larloch has been around? He should be on this list right?
Larloch 'has been around' even longer than Terraseer.
Actually, the Terraseer was around before Netheril, and Larloch was one of the later period Netheril archmages. Without the Sarrukh, Netheril would have gone the way of Elvish magic.
Actually, the Terraseer was around before Netheril, and Larloch was one of the later period Netheril archmages.
Exactly. Arthindol the Terraseer (that is his Netherese name, at least) is a Sarrukh lich and one of the rotating Kings of Oreme. Oreme was the capital city of the Sarrukh empire of Isstosseffifil, which was founded circa -34500 DR. He was still around before the Spellplague (Lost Empires of Faerûn) and monitoring the remaining Netherese.
Without the Sarrukh, Netheril would have gone the way of Elvish magic.
From what I have read, without the Terraseer orcs would have overwhelmed the Netherese before they had a chance to develop more than rudimentary magic.
The main benefit of having the enclaves was that the Orcs and other similar opponents, became completely irrelevant after that.
Where is that bit about Queen Ordalf, Karsus?
-Like I said, hypothesizing on my part. There is nothing to connect Queen Ordalf with the leShay who opened the portals between the Plane of Faerie and the Prime Material Plane other than the fact that both groups are leShay, and both definitely exist within Forgotten Realms continuity.
The main benefit of having the enclaves was that the Orcs and other similar opponents, became completely irrelevant after that.
-Heh, once you get a 1st Level Sleep spell, most Orcs become completely irrelevant.
-Heh, once you get a 1st Level Sleep spell, most Orcs become completely irrelevant.
And, one might argue, a beginner's knowledge of Elvish magic would have been sufficient to deal with orcs. ;)
Not to mention the fact that if humans and Elves had been allied more closely from that time, the North might not have lost so many kingdoms (demihuman and human alike).
crazy.Comparatively, Auguthra the Mad’s writings suggest the Terraseer was thousands of years old when he first revealed himself to the Netherese in -3,654 DR (Anauroch: the Empire of Shade). Even if he is not as old as I would like to believe, the Terraseer is still a close second to the Three Watchers.
The oldest canonical non-deity, non-divine creature I found (using the Grand History of the Realms, mostly) is actually creatures: the sharn. Circa -10,500 DR three grand mages (Alunor, Hamra, and T’karon) and roughly eighty citizens of Miyeritar escaped the destruction of their civilization. While the sharn share a group mind individual consciousness is preserved; the Three Watchers, as Alunor and company became known, remain the leaders of the sharn until the Spellplague drives them
Comparatively, Auguthra the Mad’s writings suggest the Terraseer was thousands of years old when he first revealed himself to the Netherese in -3,654 DR (Anauroch: the Empire of Shade). Even if he is not as old as I would like to believe, the Terraseer is still a close second to the Three Watchers.
Well, the Terraseer is at least 34,000 years old, although much of that time was spent as a lich and in hibernation after their empire Isstosseffifil fell in -33,800 DR to the phaerimm.
Well, the Terraseer is at least 34,000 years old, although much of that time was spent as a lich and in hibernation after their empire Isstosseffifil fell in -33,800 DR to the phaerimm.
I am also under the impression that he is from the height of Isstosseffifil but I cannot find it stated anywhere.
Not to mention the fact that if humans and Elves had been allied more closely from that time, the North might not have lost so many kingdoms (demihuman and human alike).
-They just win with sheer numbers. Look at Occidian, for example.
-They just win with sheer numbers. Look at Occidian, for example.
Or the help of some other powerful being like a demon, if you look a bit closer at Occidian ;)
Thinking about old beings. Is anything more known about the mages in the Ironfang Keep? I mean it was built 26.000 years ago but maybe these mages weren't so humanlike, that they could not be a little bit undead or otherwise immortal. Tha Moonsea sourcebook says only some speculative things and they seem so powerful that even Red Wizards don't dare to deal with them. After what some of them did in dealing with beings like Eltab, it seems the mages of Ironfang Keep must be really powerful and would be perfect candidates for some kind of immortality.
Or the help of some other powerful being like a demon, if you look a bit closer at Occidian ;)
-We don't know much about Haeksherr's (Sp?) involvement, or just what kind of Demon he actually was.
Its not what it does, but rather the word itself I find offensive in a fantasy setting. Even 'Mindmage' is better then 'Psionicist'. They should just call them Mystics in D&D (which I prefer over Mentalist, which also has a more modern conotation).
I don't mind Lisa Smedman's use of the term 'mind magic' in her "House of Serpents" trilogy.
Is anything more known about the mages in the Ironfang Keep?
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drrl/20071107a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drrl/20071107a
Ah, thanks. Never seen that. Maybe you could animate the web designers of WotC to do some better work on their site navigation. It is quite impossible to find there something, even if it was so long there. :embarrass
Well interesting "new" details, because I knew only the things of the old 2nd edition Moonsea sourcebook. Besides the picture in the 3rd Campaign Setting from Todd Lockwood was much better. A bit more like an iron fang and looking a bit more like something being there for more than 20 millennia. ;)
-We don't know much about Haeksherr's (Sp?) involvement, or just what kind of Demon he actually was.
Yes, but imho his major role for the orc attack is more apparent, when he commands the attack at the sister city Sharlarion. There was said that he was the leader of the orc horde. So imho it seems that he was the kind of spirit behind this attack, since later it is said he had some own plans aside from being a servant of Lolth, carving out some realm or another kind of major plot for his own endings.
What kind of demon he was, that is a questing I am still not sure and had asked already. But if there comes nothing new about this chapter in lore, there won't be any better answer than our own guessing. To me he seemed to be something between Yugoloth, Glabrezu, maybe a bit balor-like too (because of these great bat-like wings). But I do not think that we will ever know for sure what he was and how important he really was, because Wizards seemed not to care anymore about realmslore the way they had in previous editions. And I doubt that they will they allow an author, like Lisa, make a new novel so deep digging into the old lore (and hope that, if they do, that they chose someone who knows this time better, like Elaine).
Yes, but imho his major role for the orc attack is more apparent, when he commands the attack at the sister city Sharlarion. There was said that he was the leader of the orc horde. So imho it seems that he was the kind of spirit behind this attack, since later it is said he had some own plans aside from being a servant of Lolth, carving out some realm or another kind of major plot for his own endings.
-I meant that as in we don't know how much of an influence he had over the Orcs, and how much influence he had over the actual battles. For all we know, during most run ins between Elves and Orcs during that particular horde that sacked Occidian and siege Sharlarion, Haeksherr (Sp?) may have been sitting in the background watching, relishing in the destruction, not really caring much one way or the other who won, pointing the already destructive Orcs in the "right" direction. On the other hand, he might have been in the front lines of the fighting. We just don't know.
-I meant that as in we don't know how much of an influence he had over the Orcs, and how much influence he had over the actual battles. For all we know, during most run ins between Elves and Orcs during that particular horde that sacked Occidian and siege Sharlarion, Haeksherr (Sp?) may have been sitting in the background watching, relishing in the destruction, not really caring much one way or the other who won, pointing the already destructive Orcs in the "right" direction. On the other hand, he might have been in the front lines of the fighting. We just don't know.
Ah, OK. I agree with that.
Haeksherr (Sp?)
Haeshkarr was it the last time I looked into Evermeet (p. 147 of the Mass Market Paperback version). ;)
Isn't the oldest living being on Toril actually Toril herself? :P
Nope, has to be mortal. OP's rules :D
What about when the magma cools off, planet dies?
Thank you, If a being can perish then it's not immortal. The planet can die or be killed.
What about when the magma cools off, planet dies?
Some of the magma hot spots are linked to the plane of fire. I think hell will freeze over first, before the plane of fire cools down. Then there is still the question not really answered about whether there is a magma core in the middle of Toril. Some sources say that the Underdark does never end and somewhere just goes off into the plane of shadow if you travel too deep.
We know the Realms has volcanos, so it would logically follow that there is a magma core... though how the underdark works with that I have no idea of how to go about explaining. :D
We also know that some of them are in a kind of way linked to the Plane of Fire and home to Fire elementals, like Mount Hotenow in the Neverwinter Wood. Maybe all of them are that in certain kind of ways, especially if the Underdark ends in the Plane of Shadow.
Though were all of them associated with the Plane of Fire, I doubt the nature and properties of the Neverwinter River would be as supposedly remarkable as it is seemingly made out to be. Nice theory, but I don't think there's much in the way of Realmslore to support it in any real sense, unless I've missed something somewhere.