56773888 wrote:
The first is that right now, FR is the most played setting - through LFR (with a FR adventure coming out every week).
Admittedly, most players do not invest time in the setting, nor seek out lore. But the interest in te Realsm is kept alive this way. Hence, I am quite sure that for the time being, interest is assured.
I hope that LFR keeps the interst high enough that when 5th edition come around, it will still be seen as a valuable setting.
The second, possibly more compelling, is that FR novels are abundant. As long as FR novels sell, they will continue to be written, and the setting will be kept alive.
So I t hink FR won't be dead for a long time.
I only read the Realms Novels now. (If stigger was around he would mock me for it.) But it's true. I don't play 4E. I don't play 3E or Pathfinder. I haven't since July. Life caught up with me. I plan on trying 4E eventually. When I start gaming with my D&D group it will be using the Pathfinder Rules. One of the days.
I think the Realms will go the way of Greyhawk myself. I think most of the changes were to make the setting easier for the NEW authors, and the NEW members of the WotC STAFF that never WORKED on the Realms before. Just my opinion.
Yes the 4E Realms novels are really good I might add. If you haven't read one try it you might just like it. I had a year subscription to DDI, I let it expire because I wasn't satisfied with the meger amount of Realmslore that was produced. Granted It got better at the end. Thanks Ed, Brian James, Matt James, Brian Cortijo, and Erik. Plus I feel 4E will become just as bloated if not more than 2E or 3E ever was. Unless you get DDI and the Character Builder. 5E wont have books. Hide and watch.
We should have seen what Eberron was when it came out. The deathknell for the Realms. Yes I like Eberron also. Its a good setting. Its everything the Realms aren't. The High Power Justice League setting that TSR and Wizards wanted the Realms to be. I was blown away when I found out that Ed never wanted to write about El, and The Chosen, yet TSR, and the Wizards wanted Ed to write about El, and The Chosen. So Ed wrote what they wanted. Now El will be a Shadow of his former self, and who know what Chsen are still alive. They won't tell us.
NDA.
I hate those letters now.
I will probably just stat out Ed Greenwood's Falconfar Setting and run with that. If you haven't read the Falconfar Novels, you are missing a real treat. Then again I like Ed's non Realms Fiction, more than his Realms fiction. So I will homebrew, so my heart wont get crushed when a new regime in a corporation decides that the profits are not up to projected expectations and change a setting I love.
I will still use the Realms on occasion, and the Realms will always live on in the Hearts and Minds of those who love her.
That is all I have to say about this.
I don't think the Realms will survive for long. But I think the RPGA sounded the death knell not Eberron. This is not a slight to the RPGA. While I don't enjoy alot of aspects of the RPGA and had some rather bad personal experience when I do come in contact with the RPGA, but I recognize it is good at supporting the game and is a way to meet new people who have similar interest.
But having said that I thought it was a mistake to let them have Greyhawk and I thought it was a mistake to let them have the Forgotten Realms. While they are members of the RPGA that really like those worlds most of them don't really care about them either. It is like having a nice house and have invaded by rude and destructive gueats who don't care about the work and hours you have put into it. I really think the the RPGA and D&D in general would be better served by having a world that is their own. Heck it would be awesome I think for members to have a world for themselves in which they can design and developed on their own.
Two points:
The first is that right now, FR is the most played setting - through LFR (with a FR adventure coming out every week).
Admittedly, most players do not invest time in the setting, nor seek out lore. But the interest in te Realsm is kept alive this way. Hence, I am quite sure that for the time being, interest is assured.I hope that LFR keeps the interst high enough that when 5th edition come around, it will still be seen as a valuable setting.
I don't think that will be enough. As you say it yourself: "most players do not invest time in the setting, nor seek out lore". If the RPGA would change to Living Point of Life, the majority of the LFR players would certainly just shrug and start playing LPoL as if nothing had ever happened. They just play Living-whatever-RPGA-offers without
We should have seen what Eberron was when it came out. The deathknell for the Realms.
Yet Eberron gets even less stuff than the realms.
In a lot of ways, it's far too generic now (it's designed to be matchy-matchy with other settings) and yet it's also way too over the top in other aspects (floating earthmotes, cut-and-pasted Mordor and Dragonlance areas, and a massive influx of dragonborn and tieflings). In some ways, it also seems more like a Champions superhero game, given the strong focus on powers and group role ("I'm a tank... I'm a controller...").
I'm not sure I agree with LFR/RPGA being all that positive for the Realms. Actually, I think that both LFR/RPGA and the whole DDI thing push the Realms away from the average consumer. Many gamers never get involved in RPGA, and there's nothing regularly new on the shelves for average gamers to look at and buy. I also agree that DDI is too much of a gamble, given that FR material is sparse and (imo, from what I've seen) not really as high quality as the old Dragon/Dungeon used to be. DDI also failed on several of its promised goals, as they still don't have any timetable for an online game table and other projects that were originally supposed to be a part of it.
As for novels, I haven't been particularly wowed there either. The Empyrean Odyssey was well written, but it really did feel like the Realms were nuked with the Spellplague. And I just found out today that Halruaa got torched (yeah, I know, I'm catching up slowly). That's a huge bummer to me, I thought it was one of the most interesting places. Amazon had some bad reviews of the undead trilogy, so I can't say I'm interested in reading those. Maybe I'll pick up Rich Baker's new trilogy, but Vaasa seems pretty remote and "mages with swords" seems kinda overdone as a theme, so I'm just not sure. Certainly, gone are the days of the early Salvatore, Denning, and Cunningham novels that I would buy without even seeing the cover or theme.
So is it dying? I can't say. I want to be excited about it, but largely it just brings out a "meh" in me and my friends. There are people who apparently love all of the changes, but my gaming group thought that parts of the new Realms were just outright laughable and dumb and not one of us wanted to invest in the new campaign guide. Back during 1E and early 2E, I saved up money to buy as much as I could. But now, when I actually have money to spend and more time to actually game, I don't feel the pull for it. So we will either be going with an earlier version or doing a home-brew version. If it's true that the designers made all these changes primarily to benefit themselves and future authors, instead of purely for the fans, then I think that's really sad.
I do see chance of it being revived in a way. If WotC stops publishing it I think it reverts back to Greenwood...who still has a ton of stuff to publish about the Realms. Or WotC can reverse tracks and bring back the Classic FR. I think they did fire the guy who was the lead designer for it so it is possible.
But both ways require it to die.
Actualy I don't think the Realms will ever die for me personaly...I'll continue to run and play games there...as I think most fans will. I have enough FR material run billions of games.
I do see chance of it being revived in a way. If WotC stops publishing it I think it reverts back to Greenwood...who still has a ton of stuff to publish about the Realms. Or WotC can reverse tracks and bring back the Classic FR. I think they did fire the guy who was the lead designer for it so it is possible.
But both ways require it to die.
Bring back "Classic FR"? Do you mean re-starting it from an earlier time point?
Who was fired?
Actualy I don't think the Realms will ever die for me personaly...I'll continue to run and play games there...as I think most fans will. I have enough FR material run billions of games.
I do see chance of it being revived in a way. If WotC stops publishing it I think it reverts back to Greenwood...who still has a ton of stuff to publish about the Realms. Or WotC can reverse tracks and bring back the Classic FR. I think they did fire the guy who was the lead designer for it so it is possible.
But both ways require it to die.
Bring back "Classic FR"? Do you mean re-starting it from an earlier time point?
Who was fired?
basically I t would be Ed's table version of the Realms.
I second it, who was fired?
Could be a good thing or it could be a bad thing.
If the Realms were to revert back to Ed, just about everything TSR and WotC produced would be 'invalidated'. Alot of what the know as the Realms wouldn't be in it anymore. Karsus and what happened with Netheril wouldn't exist anymore for example.
Could be a good thing or it could be a bad thing.
Well, I'd still be around, so everyone would be fine.
As for the future of the Realms, I'm still undecided.
I agree with the OP's points. If I took an LFR adventure and changed the unique names of NPCs and locations, will it feel like you are playing in FR? I think WOTC expects the general 4e splats to be the splats for the campaign settings as well. Take the Underdark or PHB3. The fluff of Torog IS the fluff to be used in FR, as well as the psionic power source that has Far Realm affiliations. It is meant to be dropped into FR as part of the lore.
it fails at that.
If the Realms were to revert back to Ed, just about everything TSR and WotC produced would be 'invalidated'. Alot of what the know as the Realms wouldn't be in it anymore. Karsus and what happened with Netheril wouldn't exist anymore for example.
Could be a good thing or it could be a bad thing.
Well, I'd still be around, so everyone would be fine.
As for the future of the Realms, I'm still undecided.
the fact that you would still be around would likely be one of the best things of all time in the Realms.
just dont go putting that one in your sig
Long Live The Realms!
Actualy I don't think the Realms will ever die for me personaly...I'll continue to run and play games there...as I think most fans will. I have enough FR material run billions of games.
I do see chance of it being revived in a way. If WotC stops publishing it I think it reverts back to Greenwood...who still has a ton of stuff to publish about the Realms. Or WotC can reverse tracks and bring back the Classic FR. I think they did fire the guy who was the lead designer for it so it is possible.
But both ways require it to die.
Bring back "Classic FR"? Do you mean re-starting it from an earlier time point?
Who was fired?
basically I t would be Ed's table version of the Realms.
I second it, who was fired?
Well it would depend who revived...also Ed realizes some of thoer people's ideas were good and might keep them...who knows he might get Paul Kemp abd Elaine Cunningham( sp?) back writting.
But id wizards does it...it could be at any point in the history of the Realms...heck maybe before the Time of Trouble and Highland 2 it.
I might be mistaken but was not Chris Sims fired? Was he not the lead designer? I might be mistaken though.
I personaly like the fact that its constantly changing and evolving.
Well, it's been that way for 23 years, and even longer if you count the time before official publication. The thing is, now there won't be much evolution anymore, at least that's what the designers said, what with the metaplot being bad and so on. The idea is to keep the setting static in order to not intimidate new players who could feel they'd need to *gasp* read up on something, because reading supposedly isn't fun. At least that's the party line - of course things will still happen. The RPGA wants to feel special after all, and the authors, although they were given the order to not write RSEs for a change, won't be able to buck up their ideas for long, I suppose. Still, constant change was considered bad and will therefore be played down - unless they've changed their strategy.
Theres alot of history there as well, If you dont like the 4e timeline, then continue playing in 1370 Realms, or play during the Age of Netheril, or the glory days of Myth Drannor, or when ever or where ever you want.
That's true, but how are new players supposed to know this? And even if they did, how are they supposed to get their hands on older material? WotC PDF sourcebooks are not on sale anymore, and no one in their right mind will hunt down expensive OOP books on eBay without even knowing what they're getting into. For all intents and purposes, new players are more or less forced to use the New Realms. Old players continue to have the choice, but those who like proper support won't be around for long if they're not getting any, others move because of their jobs, raise a family, and so on, you know how it is. Without the influx of new blood I can't see how the Realms are supposed to stay for good. If things stay the same they're now, five years down the road there will be no FR support whatsoever anymore on DDI, because WotC won't turn Dragon into a monthly encyclopedia, and with the available space staying the same and seven settings - the more recent, the more space they get -, you do the math. That's my prediction for today.
Criswell
DB
they lie.
sure it wasnt cost effective to do them in hard back in the first place....
anyway moving on.
*wanders off again, back to the larger galaxy out there*
I really think the the RPGA and D&D in general would be better served by having a world that is their own.
It would definitely be less difficult to design for. I'd be running into walls less often.
I agree with the OP's points. If I took an LFR adventure and changed the unique names of NPCs and locations, will it feel like you are playing in FR?
Would that count for any adventure where you chaneg all the names and locales? What defines a FR adventure?
And have you actually tried one of the LFR adventures? Have you read The Lady in Flames? Hunters' Down? The Vesperin Initiative? Rising of the Dark?
I think those adventures capture the feel of the Realms, with plots and intrigue, NPCs with backgrounds and motivations (ushc as Kira Nenthyn, Sureen Tevernesta, Mirabeta Selkirk), iconic locales (such as the Fall of Stars, the Spiderhaunt, or Hunters Down), or events (such as the Fall of Sessrendale).
YMMV, but if those adventures can't translate to a Realms adventure, I really have no idea what you want out of an adventure.
RPGA adventures have their limits (word count, for one), but they can be proper Realms adventures if given some attention. I do suggest you try and read some of them.
Gomez
It is a bit like asking if you took the chassis of a Ferrari and stuck in Vauxhall parts, if it would still run like a Ferrari...
I think some of the LFR adventures they've made are better than the stuff they actually charge people for.
I seriously mean that, there is some absolute quality among LFR adventures that is lacking from the dungeon and official adventures they ask people to pay for. Many of the better ones are good because they work so specifically for the settings they are designed for (And LFR adventures certainly are). The only reason people here rag on them - with absolutely no knowledge of what they are talking about - is because they are RPGA. Just because they are from the RPGA does not impinge of the quality or actual understanding of the realms the authors of said modules have.
What WotC has done to my beloved Forgotten Realms sickens me to no end, as does all of 4E in general. I so wish that anything could be done to take it all back. Whether reverting it back to Ed is the answer or just restarting it in 1370 or something, even a complete restart back to 1E times before the Godswar if they so chose (and hey, I'd be ecstatic to get Bhaal and Myrkul back while simutaneously forgetting I ever heard the name Cyric), anything would be better than what has inhabited its current incarnation.
If the Realms were to revert back to Ed, just about everything TSR and WotC produced would be 'invalidated'. Alot of what the know as the Realms wouldn't be in it anymore. Karsus and what happened with Netheril wouldn't exist anymore for example.
Could be a good thing or it could be a bad thing.
From reading interviews with Ed and his replies to various forum questions, I am 100% sure that if he ever got total control of the Realms back that he would never ever ever undo what has already been done. He doesn't care what is done to the Realms, he only cares if people are actually playing in it and enjoying it. He encourages players to change the world to suit their campaigns every chance he gets.
As for the longevity of the Realms, I have faith that this setting will live a very very long time. One reason I feel this way is for the fact that the license does revert back to Mr. Greenwood's family if it is ever abandoned. Secondly, the waning popularity has more to do with WoTC mismanagement than it does with the popularity of the Realms. So as with Star Trek, it may fade away for a bit, but there is no denying its popularity and it will rise again when someone else realizes this. Also, someone else mentioned the novels. They are still going strong (my only exposure to the Realms btw).
So here's hoping that WoTC continues to mismanage the Realms and DnD in general. At least then it might pass into the hands of more competent people.......kind of the way Battletech has.
Well, it's been that way for 23 years, and even longer if you count the time before official publication. The thing is, now there won't be much evolution anymore, at least that's what the designers said, what with the metaplot being bad and so on. The idea is to keep the setting static in order to not intimidate new players who could feel they'd need to *gasp* read up on something, because reading supposedly isn't fun.
Most people never read up on the Realms anyway, even those who played in it. So that's not much of a change. They were written for DMs rather than players, after all.
Theres alot of history there as well, If you dont like the 4e timeline, then continue playing in 1370 Realms, or play during the Age of Netheril, or the glory days of Myth Drannor, or when ever or where ever you want.
That's true, but how are new players supposed to know this? And even if they did, how are they supposed to get their hands on older material? WotC PDF sourcebooks are not on sale anymore, and no one in their right mind will hunt down expensive OOP books on eBay without even knowing what they're getting into. For all intents and purposes, new players are more or less forced to use the New Realms. Old players continue to have the choice, but those who like proper support won't be around for long if they're not getting any, others move because of their jobs, raise a family, and so on, you know how it is. Without the influx of new blood I can't see how the Realms are supposed to stay for good. If things stay the same they're now, five years down the road there will be no FR support whatsoever anymore on DDI, because WotC won't turn Dragon into a monthly encyclopedia, and with the available space staying the same and seven settings - the more recent, the more space they get -, you do the math. That's my prediction for today.
Criswell
Other settings survive with far less support than the Realms has. Tell the Greyhawk fans, the Mystara fans, the Planescape fans, etc. that their settings aren't still around. Of course, it's possible FR fans are less imaginative than they are... More seriously, how much support should a setting that a small minority of gamers use get? Particularly from a company that has fans of other settings hoping for their particular niche to get some love.
Most people never read up on the Realms anyway, even those who played in it. So that's not much of a change. They were written for DMs rather than players, after all.
Well, "most people" arguments have one thing in common: They're not actually arguments, but in most cases extrapolations of an individual's observations. By the way, if most people never read up on the Realms anyway, why have there been so many complaints over the decades that too few gamers deviate from the plot as if it was written in stone? After all, this was enough of a "problem" that WotC felt the need to reboot the setting.
Other settings survive with far less support than the Realms has. Tell the Greyhawk fans, the Mystara fans, the Planescape fans, etc. that their settings aren't still around.
They're around, all right. But what's the difference between the ones you named and current settings with ongoing official support? Exposure. And in respect to getting new players involved, Planescape for example is pretty much dead. With no "central hub" of source material that a) is accepted as "official" and is therefore mandatory for all gaming groups until individually decreed otherwise, and that b) calls outsiders' attention to the setting, thereby recruiting new players, these settings are kept alive by some fans - until the last of those has died of old age. If Mystara was commonly considered "alive" just because a handful of people all over the globe are still playing it, we wouldn't have this conversation.
DB
Most people never read up on the Realms anyway, even those who played in it. So that's not much of a change. They were written for DMs rather than players, after all.
Well, "most people" arguments have one thing in common: They're not actually arguments, but in most cases extrapolations of an individual's observations. By the way, if most people never read up on the Realms anyway, why have there been so many complaints over the decades that too few gamers deviate from the plot as if it was written in stone? After all, this was enough of a "problem" that WotC felt the need to reboot the setting.
My figures are admittedly not recent, but they're based on surveys a group I was involved with took at a convention we used to run. We asked people what settings they played, what settings they GMed, and what books they owned for those settings. While I remember coming across one survey where someone GMed a setting but owned no books for it, overwhelmingly the people who owned more than a campaign guide were GMs. Players were about 50/50 for owning a campaign guide for a setting they played. Since those results were consistent for years, I don't think it's unreasonable to think they remain true today. Not that I'm convinced people were always telling us the truth.
Other settings survive with far less support than the Realms has. Tell the Greyhawk fans, the Mystara fans, the Planescape fans, etc. that their settings aren't still around.
They're around, all right. But what's the difference between the ones you named and current settings with ongoing official support? Exposure. And in respect to getting new players involved, Planescape for example is pretty much dead. With no "central hub" of source material that a) is accepted as "official" and is therefore mandatory for all gaming groups until individually decreed otherwise, and that b) calls outsiders' attention to the setting, thereby recruiting new players, these settings are kept alive by some fans - until the last of those has died of old age. If Mystara was commonly considered "alive" just because a handful of people all over the globe are still playing it, we wouldn't have this conversation.
DB
Yet I've seen people online looking for and finding gamers to start a new game in all three of the settings I named this year, and some of the people responding made it plain they knew nothing about the setting but wanted to give it a try. I think the internet helps in this respect, as the more obsessive fans create and put up material that others then come across. If the material is good enough, it will create an interest that helps keep the setting alive.
On a tangent, I hate the idea that "official" material should ever be regarded as mandatory. That just leads to people using it without thinking whether it really does what they want. If it's good enough, "official" shouldn't enter into the equation.
I dunno, what with planewalker and all, Planescape's probably one of the most alive 'dead' settings.
I wouldnt count Planescape as dead, its just been rolled into the Core setting, samething with Spelljammer and Ravenloft.
Stuffin' Sigil into the core cosmology does not Planescape make, berk.
Well, Its a start, and theres other Planescape elements that made it in there, Tieflings for instance.
And the last Basher that called me Berk ended up in the Dead-Book!
I dunno, what with planewalker and all, Planescape's probably one of the most alive 'dead' settings.
True, but my point still stands.
My figures are admittedly not recent, but they're based on surveys a group I was involved with took at a convention we used to run. We asked people what settings they played, what settings they GMed, and what books they owned for those settings. While I remember coming across one survey where someone GMed a setting but owned no books for it, overwhelmingly the people who owned more than a campaign guide were GMs. Players were about 50/50 for owning a campaign guide for a setting they played. Since those results were consistent for years, I don't think it's unreasonable to think they remain true today. Not that I'm convinced people were always telling us the truth.
I have no reason to doubt they have. But in my experience (which means I'm extrapolating my own observations) lore-oriented players don't tend to visit cons as often. In fact, not a single one of those I associate with does, and they have the same reason for not doing it I do: Cons have nothing to offer us, and we'd rather play Warhammer Online or Age of Conan than participate in a gaming session on a con. (I'm not trying to bash cons, but rather to explain why I don't think con-attending gamers are representative of the hobby.)
Yet I've seen people online looking for and finding gamers to start a new game in all three of the settings I named this year, and some of the people responding made it plain they knew nothing about the setting but wanted to give it a try. I think the internet helps in this respect, as the more obsessive fans create and put up material that others then come across. If the material is good enough, it will create an interest that helps keep the setting alive.
Of course this happens from time to time, but how many times do you think do all PS players fit into all pre-4e FR players? How many players does it take for a setting to be "alive" anyway? We're in danger of descending into hair-splitting territory here, since I was talking about the official line of products in the first place. If one thinks the setting would be better / equally well / worse served being run by enthusiastic hobbyists on a non-profit internet site has nothing to do with the question if the official setting is in danger of being discontinued medium-term.
On a tangent, I hate the idea that "official" material should ever be regarded as mandatory. That just leads to people using it without thinking whether it really does what they want.
Again, this is hair-splitting (and it wasn't the best wording on my part), but I didn't mean "mandatory" as in "it goes without saying that you positively have to use it", but as in "obligatory" / "authoritative" / "considered to be the lowest common denominator from which you're allowed to deviate, but at least you can be sure that it's common knowledge and considered the default". I've homebrewed the Realms to death - therefore I can't expect other people to know my Realms, but I know what other people know about the official Realms.
DB
I dunno, what with planewalker and all, Planescape's probably one of the most alive 'dead' settings.
I wouldnt count Planescape as dead, its just been rolled into the Core setting, samething with Spelljammer and Ravenloft.
I wouldn't really say that, because the core cosmology has almost nothing to do with Planescape and core parts of planescape as a setting are missing. While you could do 4E Planescape actually with a lot of modifications (you'd need to move Yugoloths back to Carceri, bring back the great wheel as opposed to world axis cosmology and such forth) it isn't planescape until you do these things.
Given Dark Suns return I am hoping for a proper full return for Planescape in 4E actually. Dark Sun makes me pleased because it shows that Wizards are willing to break with "everything is core" when a setting really demands it. So a 4E Planescape is unlikely to use the default cosmology, it could even provide a nice alternative system for the cosmology of other settings as well.
But it's all speculation until they actually do it. I would think Dragonlance may be next the way the rumor mill was going.
Stuffin' Sigil into the core cosmology does not Planescape make, berk.
Well, Its a start, and theres other Planescape elements that made it in there, Tieflings for instance.
And the last Basher that called me Berk ended up in the Dead-Book!
Uh.
4E tieflings and Planescape tieflings have nothing at all to do with each other other than sharing a name. Literally nothing else is the same at all except an association with fiends. You're sodding barmy.
both of you take it to the planescape forum.
if you dont like it, go Sodding sod yourselves
I hope the Lady sends you to the Mazes...
You berks are all addle-coved!
I hope the Lady sends you to the Mazes...
why that berk, she'll send you with us
Sounds like fun berk, when do we leave?
by Helm, its boring already
Theres alot of history there as well, If you dont like the 4e timeline, then continue playing in 1370 Realms, or play during the Age of Netheril, or the glory days of Myth Drannor, or when ever or where ever you want.
That's true, but how are new players supposed to know this? And even if they did, how are they supposed to get their hands on older material? WotC PDF sourcebooks are not on sale anymore, and no one in their right mind will hunt down expensive OOP books on eBay without even knowing what they're getting into. For all intents and purposes, new players are more or less forced to use the New Realms. Old players continue to have the choice, but those who like proper support won't be around for long if they're not getting any, others move because of their jobs, raise a family, and so on, you know how it is. Without the influx of new blood I can't see how the Realms are supposed to stay for good. If things stay the same they're now, five years down the road there will be no FR support whatsoever anymore on DDI, because WotC won't turn Dragon into a monthly encyclopedia, and with the available space staying the same and seven settings - the more recent, the more space they get -, you do the math. That's my prediction for today.
Criswell
It's not exactly completely publicized, and it's a pain to find from the main site if you don't know where to go, www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/do..." title="www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/do...">but some PDFs still remain. They have some good Realms products in my opinion.
Okay guys, let's keep it on topic. Thanks.
Its still on topic, as it shows that a settings life expectancy can last longer than "official" support.
Well, Its a start, and theres other Planescape elements that made it in there, Tieflings for instance.
I'm late on the draw and someone else has already pointed this out, but no, tieflings did not make it into 4e. There's a new race that happens to have the same name, but they're not the same race.
At least, in the core books. In my Realms campaign, tieflings have the same background and fluff as they did before 4e. Just to avoid completely discarding the 4e material, I decided that there is also a race that came with Returned Abeir - these guys are the 4e version of tieflings. The people of Faerun call them tieflings, despite the fact that they aren't, simply because they don't know any better.
As for Planescape still being alive despite official support... for me, it's still alive due to Planescape: Torment. That game was my only exposure to the setting. I have never seen nor owned any of the source material, nor would I spend the absurd asking prices that people ask for for used copies.
However, because Planescape: Torment was so incredibly amazing, I try to work elements of Planescape into everything.
{Edit}
Oh, and I'll also add, computer RPGs are also the main reason I play and DM in the Forgotten Realms. I have an attachment to the setting mainly as a result of the Baldur's Gate saga and, to a much lesser extent, the NWN series. That, and I like having a setting that actually has a map of the world so I and my players have some idea of what it looks like.
But you do make a good point on the video games! That what got me into the forgotten Realms. the old Pools of Radiance on the Commodore 64!
Though Bael Turath and old Narfell seem to have a lot in common (not that Narfell was a tiefling empire, but I think it produced a fair few).
pretty sure Old Imaskar did..too either that or alot of half-feys....
this thread seems rather odd, since the Realms are gone
What!? The Realms are gone? Nobody told me, or the millions of LFR players. The Realms are far from over.
I believe 4e was a necessity for the survival of DnD...it was a good method to attract newcomers to the game.
But nevertheless, I still love the novels.
What!? The Realms are gone? Nobody told me, or the millions of LFR players. The Realms are far from over.
Millions? Where do you get such an inflated number? There are only some 200,000 accounts here, and of those a large portion are probably not RPGA/LFR but players of Magic:TG and the other gaming lines made by the company.
I suspect that the active RPGA/LFR numbers are more in the thousands range, maybe tens of thousands. Certainly not millions. But I would be interested in actual numbers if someone can prove me wrong.
And Im suprised that no one called me on this sooner!
I may have exaggerated just a tad. The point I was trying to make was that the LFR brings in more Realms players. It might not be Millions, but it is world wide, so Im assuming that its a pretty good sized number. Personally ive never been into the LFR, I prefer home games, where I have complete control, bwahahaha!
And Im suprised that no one called me on this sooner!
Just a tad? Really I don't even think the RPGA can even boast the majority of D&D players overall in their ranks...
Also from what I have seen most of the RPGA LFR players don't care about the setting...beyond what region gives what mechanical bonus best for their class. Sorry but I consider the death knell of the FR started with the descsion to give it to the RPGA...that is what happened to Greyhawk last edition...
Baised that, most of the campaign administrators have an interest in the setting and work to expand it.
A main difference between LG and LFR is also that LFR has the attention of R&D, and the involvement of FR authors and game designers.
I don't think LFR needs the RPGA to survive, but I do think it helps.
I am in a game now being run in the relams (when we find the time to pull it together!) and my experience is that it has very little of the feel of the realms I knew. I get that is what WOTC was trying to do, but part of the draw of the realms for me was the expansive history and sense of grandeur that has been seemingly intentionally written out.
I do understand that WOTC is in business to make money and that they are doing what they think they need to do to make a profit--I just miss the lore.
So to get back on topic, with the limited fluff coming out for the realms (aside from the RPGA which I know very little about) I don't see it lastling longer than 4th ed. The people that I know/knew that loved the realms and would buy the books etc did so because of the "completeness" of the history and though there was so much fleshed out-you could still make it your own.
We have had articles on Cormyr, Akanul and Vaasa, various articles by Ed on all kinds of elements, a Red Wizard Enclave, various faiths...
There are also several novels, many of whcuh are quite rich in new lore.
And it is easy to ignore the RPGA, but it does bring out lore.
'Limited Fluff' onyl applies if you choose to ignore the sources available.
Plus, you can still use older lore. If your DM does not have access to it, I suggest to provide it.
I do read DDI and have seen the handful of articles that have been released though I haven't jumped into the novels yet as I was put off by the, in my opinion, incomplete campaign and players guide for that was put out for the realms. I too am aware that I can use older lore-but the point is if they perfom a reboot of the world, I want to know what has changed about it-not stuff old info into holes the company who performed the reboot haven't deigned to fill.
I appreciate you championing a setting that is well worth championing-but the company that holds the rights to that setting seems to love it less than you or I do; this is shown in its lackluster support of it. If WOTC is not in the campaign setting business anymore-I don't see much more informination about the relams coming from them.
I agree the guides are not the best products I have seen - I believe they should not have described Abeir in it, but instead should have kept that for a separate setting book, and give mainfland Faerûn more love.
However, even if the lore published is less than it used to be, I am not so pessimistic to think that spells the end of FR.
Having played about with the setting for a few years now, I think there is as much that is still the same as there is stuff that is different. Some info will eventually be filled, some not. But it is quite posisble, imo, to make a setyting feel FR with the material present, and extrapolating from older lore. It may be easier for the Dalelands, though, since those did not fundamentally change.
Gomez
I just started God Catcher from the Waterdeep series. Halfway thru it in one night. Another good 4E Realms novels.
I have read the new Richard Baker series. All the Ed Greenwood presents: Waterdeep. Chosen of Nedawen. Realms of the Dead. So far I haven't been disappointed.
The Realms Articles that come out on DDI are really good. The Freelancers doing the DDI articles really care about the Realms.
The Realms shall survive...
The Realms shall survive...
I'll drink to that! Ive got a bottle of Trippleshroom Sherry that ive been saving for just such an occasion!
). I've read all of the other 4E novels, though, and loved most of them. And I've already got my eye on the new Richard Lee Byers novel that's coming out.
Sorry, couldn't help it, channelled Merrik there.
Interesting.
Oh and to LM: I happen to be in the process of reading Wrath of the Blue Lady now, if you havnt found a copy by the time im done reading it maybe we can work something out.
Whisper of Venom: Brotherhood of the Griffon, Book II
Key of Stars: Abolethic Sovereignty, Book III
Elminster Must Die
Those boks still have Forgotten Realms on them. I guess Hasbro is making Wizards forcus more on the brand known as D&D.
Pot meet kettle. Kettle meet pot.
Those boks still have Forgotten Realms on them. I guess Hasbro is making Wizards forcus more on the brand known as D&D.
I know right lol. it say FR but it supposed to say RR.
Is a misprint lol
On a serious note there's no telling what's the future of the realms is gonna be. back in 3EI was certain that FR was the most sussessful of all the setttings and yet the power that be thought it needed a "overhaul" so...
so do the rest of us..... scary is it not?
No. I very well expected many of you to live. You're all like bacteria. ;)
*waves to Stig and JD*
*gives finger to Swordboy*
Oh and to LM: I happen to be in the process of reading Wrath of the Blue Lady now....
Actually planned at one point to do a book bashing on that one. Unfortunately, there wasn't enough moons or fingers to give out to justify it.
Of course I live. Just not here anymore.
Seems to be the case these days. I'm now living over in Sunny Oaks Retirement Home reminiscing about the good ol' days.
I guess you are over at Shady Acres, 'cause I have heard hide nor hair of ya.
---
Anyway, the Realms will survive. 3e politics will be recreated with this new 4e setting and all will return to bickering as normal.
All's well. Carry on.
Really....
Go on now....
LEAVE!!
Ody you at Ft. Drum now, or did 'Uncle Sugar' really screw you and send your little *** to Korea anyway?
Ody No girls post here anymore that I know of. So quit showing off your stomach area.
Now drop and give me 50, sick call ranger!
*gives finger to Swordboy*
Real nice, I offer a friendly greeting, and you flip me the bird!?
ahhh just like old times!
For comfort when people scorn you, turn ot the Lady of Loss... (she knows what dagger best to use to stab your enemies in the back with)
exactly
Heh, I don't see that happening....
What I don't see happening is that profile pic.
You disservice America AND the military with that
profile pic. Yea more book bashing.
Yea! More two face!
Yeah, now that I am here, I'll probably do another Book Bashing--simply because I find it unfair to Erik not to.
*gives finger to Swordboy*
Real nice, I offer a friendly greeting, and you flip me the bird!?
ahhh just like old times!
Every time, numbnut.
I will still use the Realms on occasion, and the Realms will always live on in the Hearts and Minds of those who love her.
I was genuinely saddened about what Hasbro did to the realms, but they had to change something if they advanced the calendar 100 years - personally for me, after reading 4E FRCS, i'm sticking to 3E. It comes down to several things - I can't be bothered to learn a new version of D&D, not prepared AT ALL to shell out for players guides 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 (wait and see) etc
I've been rp'ing for years (since red box basic!!) and I have seen a lot of changes, like many others no doubt, but it smacks of Business Portfolio/5,10, 15 years Business Plan.
Hasbro & WoTC are probably banking on the loyalty of their customer base but it could also go the other way for them - years ago all we had was PnP, but the rise of tech has also changed things.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Realms (and quite a few other settings TBH) but me and my players are going to be lost in time - in fact if you ever want to visit us you're very welcome, Just come to Waterdeep in the year 1374 DR and head for the Unicorn's Horn, we're the guys who have the fireside seats reserved for us ;)
And although I liked the general 4th E rules, my group decided that they weren't into learning a new system either. So we're going to do Conan d20, which we have played a bit.
We would've done 3E Realms, but the consensus was that since we all knew about 4E the overall feeling would be spoiled. Not that I totally agree, if it were solely up to me we'd play pre-Avatar Realms. But that's groups for you.
Just come to Waterdeep in the year 1374 DR and head for the Unicorn's Horn, we're the guys who have the fireside seats reserved for us ;)
Ive been showin up at the Unicorn's Horn, but no wonder I havnt seen you, Ive been showin up in the wrong year! D'oh!
Everyone's a Sharran these days... ho-freaking-hum. meh.
I'm not. I'm still the master of Corellite spam. Join us, Stigger, in worship of the Protector, and feel his love.
Meh, I'll stick to Brightwater when I roam the planes, to sit alongside Lady Firehair while you lot do your low-rent things.
I think you mean Arvandor. Didnt you get the memo? Sune is really Hanali, and she resides in Arvandor.
in my Realms Hanali and Sune are in actually Twin sisters
I'm getting in on with Mielikki
So we're going to do Conan d20
...and on different note that made to head over to ebay/amazon, where i found a hardback edition of complete chronicles of conan for a complete steal so thanx for mentioning that ;)
Meh, I'll stick to Brightwater when I roam the planes, to sit alongside Lady Firehair while you lot do your low-rent things.
I think you mean Arvandor. Didnt you get the memo? Sune is really Hanali, and she resides in Arvandor.
You feeling alright, or are you still suffering from that whole mass bad-tuna-salad-and-tequila induced nightmare that never happened, also known as the 4e Realms?
You feeling alright, or are you still suffering from that whole mass bad-tuna-salad-and-tequila induced nightmare that never happened, also known as the 4e Realms?
This becomes my sig in about 5 min, heh.
And besides 4e Realms isnt all that bad really, no really.
I was expecting to start an argument about Hanali is really Sune, no Sune is really Hanali, no Hanali is really Sune, but nooooo you go with the 4e sucks angle, thats hitting below the belt man.
And besides 4e Realms isnt all that bad really, no really.
No...you are right...it is not that bad. But I think they should of have just made it's own world instead of overlaying it on the FR...
Another toll of the bell: the disappearance of the Realms logo on the novels, replaced by the Dungeons & Dragon logo.
Wow, that makes me really sad. So far the FR logo, although slightly different after 3e, was a constant feature throughout several rows of my bookshelf. It will look stange if it suddenly disappears after gracing hundreds of novels.
Another toll of the bell: the disappearance of the Realms logo on the novels, replaced by the Dungeons & Dragon logo.
Wow, that makes me really sad. So far the FR logo, although slightly different after 3e, was a constant feature throughout several rows of my bookshelf. It will look stange if it suddenly disappears after gracing hundreds of novels.
Yeah, that one made me do a double-take when I discovered it on Amazon. Suffice it to say I think it's a very poor decision, and I won't be surprised if/when there's backlash. Now to see if the novels for the other settings get the same treatment; I expect they will, but still.
persoanlly I wish they would of just put in both logos....
Yet Eberron gets even less stuff than the realms.
Which for those players who love Eberron, like we love FRCS, may have sometimes felt like a kick in the teeth, but then again it meant that you're not bogged down with LORE!
Yea more book bashing.
Ody you at Ft. Drum now, or did 'Uncle Sugar' really screw you and send your little *** to Korea anyway?
Ody No girls post here anymore that I know of. So quit showing off your stomach area.
Now drop and give me 50, sick call ranger!
Yes I'm in Drum. I'm deploying in ten days. And dont be hatin cuz my awose puertorican love magic reflects poorly on you. (besides, this might get the girls back lol )
Really, about all the two have in common is a map and some names.
Whether the 4e version survives or not is a matter of pretty much indifference.
Now it will will likely change drastically when 5e comes out, which will be in 2013.
Now it will will likely change drastically when 5e comes out, which will be in 2013.
My question would be... what would 5E Realms be like?
Would it go back to roots, would it lose some of the currently added changes? Or would it go further down the current fork in the road that it's on?
To some degree, current sales would have to push it in one direction or another. Will they want to romance the old fanbase back, keep the current fanbase, try for a mix of the two, or go for potentially new fans?
And I imagine they have to be talking about this now, right? If I recall, I think someone said they were laying the foundation for 4E when all the 3.5E books were still pumping out.
I think there is no going back. Short of a complete reboot, I just don't see it happening. More likely 5E will again advance the timeline with whatever changes/fixes the new creators will see fit to add or subtract.
I certaintly hope so. One of the things Ive always loved about the Realms is that its always changing, the Realms now is not the same Realms 20 years ago, this, in my opinion, is how it should be. It makes it seem more like a real world to me that way, if everything just stayed the same I dont think the Realms would of haved the same appeal.
If they did do a reboot though, Id probably still buy it, I love the Realms, Ive been with it for over 20 years, I see no reason to abadon ship now. I think a reboot would be a cheezy way to go personaly, but I might be more keen on that idea if they kept it truer to what Ed had intended, his original Realms, no shoehorned settings stappled on, now I'd be into that, itd be old and new at the same time!
Long Live The Realms!!!
I would definitely be keen on buying a "rebooted" realms in the style of having the same 2 core books that was set-pre time of troubles stupidity. That would be about the best reboot that I could think of.
I could easily go for this. But it may depend a lot on what changes they make to the rules. What kinds of things, if any, need "updating" or "fixing" in 4E rules? That would probably drive changes more than what fans might or might not want.
I would definitely be keen on buying a "rebooted" realms in the style of having the same 2 core books that was set-pre time of troubles stupidity. That would be about the best reboot that I could think of.
Time of Troubles stupidity!? Dont get me started! I will agree that they did alot of dumb things with that, like killing off every single assassin in the Realms, just because Assassin was no longer a class in 2e. But much like the whole Spellplague thing, there was some stuff that I liked. LIke Cyric for instance! I mean really can you imagine the Realms without a divine Cyric running around!? Well sure I guess you could imagine it but why would you want to? I realize that not everyone likes Cyric, but many of us do, theres just no way that they can make everybody happy. But any way the Time of Troubles also brought us Wild Magic Zones, which I love! and Dead Magic Zones. I dont know that had some interesting stuff there I thought, granted its not for everyone, and I have a few friends who to this day swear that the Time of Troubles never happened. To each their own I suppose.
Hence, I'd heartily welcome a 'reboot' to pre-ToT. Won't happen, but if it did, I'd be very
.Cyric is not now, nor has he ever been, goat cheese. And any way I like Cyric way better than Bhaal. What did Bhaal ever do? other than be Bane and Myrkuls lackey?
You're right, Cyric is actually Fromunda cheese.
Cyric is not now, nor has he ever been, goat cheese. And any way I like Cyric way better than Bhaal. What did Bhaal ever do? other than be Bane and Myrkuls lackey?
You're right, Cyric is actually Fromunda cheese.
Dude that is just nasty.
And he is not.
Cyric is the man! Lots of gods have ploted the downfall of Mystra over the years, but Cyric dint mess around, he just cracked a stick over her head. The Man i tell you, The Man!
Cyric is the man! Lots of gods have ploted the downfall of Mystra over the years, but Cyric dint mess around, he just cracked a stick over her head. The Man i tell you, The Man!
Actualy she was killed two other times atleawst. Once by a mortal...and then by Helm...mmm...maybe the whole time of trouble bussiness was carefuly manipluated by Shar to cause her death....
So it was not exactly orginal on Cyric part. Heck probably in a couple of thousands of years every god and goddess will have a turn killing Mystra. I would have been more impressed if he had killed a truely unkillable character like Drizzt or Elminster. ;)
Cyric is the man! Lots of gods have ploted the downfall of Mystra over the years, but Cyric dint mess around, he just cracked a stick over her head. The Man i tell you, The Man!
Please. Cyric was manipulated by Shar, the entire thing was orchestrated by Shar. Even in articles by the current designers, he's described as a stooge. It's not like he even had the power to directly grab Azuth's staff. A mortal worshipper of Shar handed it to him after Shar distracted Azuth and it was dropped. You can't claim Cyric is "the MAN" when he had 90% help, 9% accidental luck, and yet only 1% of his own direct action to accomplish an act. He's stanky cheese, all the gods know it.
And Mystra's multiple easy deaths indicate that she was pretty much a glass cannon.
If you can accidentially fall on a child's sandcastle at the beach and destroy it, it doesn't mean you're Godzilla.
Cyric used Shar just as much as she used him, if not more so. Cyric is not nearly as dumb as he lets on.
You guys really want me to go back to the Cyric profile pic dont you?
Puhlease!
Cyric used Shar just as much as she used him, if not more so. Cyric is not nearly as dumb as he lets on.
You guys really want me to go back to the Cyric profile pic dont you?
I don't think you will.
Cyric is not now, nor has he ever been, goat cheese. And any way I like Cyric way better than Bhaal. What did Bhaal ever do? other than be Bane and Myrkuls lackey?
You've obviously never tried your hand at the Baldur's Gate saga... which explains a lot about you all of a sudden.
And just for the record, I agree that Cyric isn't cheese. Cheese is far too good for him. He's more like the mold that grows on it and messes up an otherwise tasty little morsel into something that makes you ill.
Puhlease!
Cyric used Shar just as much as she used him, if not more so. Cyric is not nearly as dumb as he lets on.
You guys really want me to go back to the Cyric profile pic dont you?
Please stop worshipping the Fromunda cheese, it's just embarassing. Once you take a hot bath and wash up, you'll see it really doesn't rule one's life.
It'd be far better worshipping Bhaal, rather than Bhaal's cheese. Someday we will see the return of Bhaal, and yes even the rising of Azuth's mighty staff! Give the staff some love, and just wash the rest away.
Cyric is not now, nor has he ever been, goat cheese. And any way I like Cyric way better than Bhaal. What did Bhaal ever do? other than be Bane and Myrkuls lackey?
You've obviously never tried your hand at the Baldur's Gate saga... which explains a lot about you all of a sudden.
Uhm yeah, Ive got a life! Seriously though, its true ive never tried my hand at Baldur's Gate the video game. I was big into the SSI ones, and when I saw that Baldurs Gate I was like what!? its not turn based!? screw that! Change is bad.
I did have quite a few friends who were really into it, and Ive got the novel around here some where, so I know the jist of it. The Bhaalspawn thing is a cool concept and all, but things still didnt quite work out for Bhaal.
Ive only recently gotten into Neverwinter Nights, and you know it aint too bad. I still hope that Neverwinter Nights 3 is turn based though, and in 4e.
And just for the record, I agree that Cyric isn't cheese. Cheese is far too good for him. He's more like the mold that grows on it and messes up an otherwise tasty little morsel into something that makes you ill.
lol, YES!!! now that we can agree on! That IS Cyric, through and through.
If you actually look at the auto-pause options in BG2 (and probably BG1, don't have it installed to check atm), you can play them turn-based in most respects, given that I believe they give you an option to auto-pause at the end of each turn. Only thing you really have to do is assign each party member an action to perform during the round and it follows the initiative order. Kind of a pain in some situations to be sure, but its doable after a fashion.
As to NWN1, it was horrible in terms of lore, though fun as a game. NWN2 is much better about it, though there's still a few sticking points here and there for me, though MotB was excellent in almost every regard. Still not sure about about SoZ though... the Thayan Enclave in Neverwinter really bugged the living hells out of me, since its not something I can see Nasher ever allowing in his city if he could still draw breath. That and I was annoyed that I couldn't get glassteel armor since Nimbral was mentioned.
You scare me sometimes Silversword.
If you actually look at the auto-pause options in BG2 (and probably BG1, don't have it installed to check atm), you can play them turn-based in most respects, given that I believe they give you an option to auto-pause at the end of each turn. Only thing you really have to do is assign each party member an action to perform during the round and it follows the initiative order. Kind of a pain in some situations to be sure, but its doable after a fashion.
As to NWN1, it was horrible in terms of lore, though fun as a game. NWN2 is much better about it, though there's still a few sticking points here and there for me, though MotB was excellent in almost every regard. Still not sure about about SoZ though... the Thayan Enclave in Neverwinter really bugged the living hells out of me, since its not something I can see Nasher ever allowing in his city if he could still draw breath. That and I was annoyed that I couldn't get glassteel armor since Nimbral was mentioned.
I scare myself sometimes as well.
But any way, I had no idea that you could play Baldur's Gate turn based! Why didnt some one tell me sooner!!! But any way after playing Neverwinter Nights, I dont mind it so much, much like 4e, once I actulay tried it, isnt wasnt soo bad after all.
And I totally agree on the game sucking lore wise, but I think that can be said of most of the video games, like Baldur's Gate for instance, they realy simplified the city, I mean its supposed to be a pretty good sized city, but in the game it looks more like an averged sized town.
As to 4e (rules, not Realms), you're certainly welcome to your opinion. The few times I've tried it I've hated it more and more with each attempt to give it a chance.
That was mostly an issue of scale, the lore was otherwise spot on most of the time. At least BG got the lore of most of the establishments and NPCs right, whereas NWN seem to just utterly toss every official description we've ever had of Neverwinter right down the loo and flushed. And the treatment they gave the Moonstone Mask (in both games really) was just atrocious...
As to 4e (rules, not Realms), you're certainly welcome to your opinion. The few times I've tried it I've hated it more and more with each attempt to give it a chance.
Yeah, Baldur's Gate, and the Realms in general is a huge place, so I wouldnt expect them to be able to fit it all in there, but thats cool that they got the lore right for locales in the game, I may have to go ahead and git it a try, I should be able to find it pretty darn cheap by now.
And yeah likewise, I understand not everyone will like 4e, or the new Realms. I was wholly against the idea for both, when I first heard about 4e I was like ugh, but after actually reading it I started liking it more and more. I was having similar ideas for a hombrew idea I had during the 3.5 run. I mean wizards get spells, fighters should get a list of combat manuvers or something, So i liked that aspect of 4e. 4e Realms took me a little longer to get used to. But I understand that not everyone will like it, I dont like everything they did, but some of the things they got goin on are interesting, like High Imaskar. I'm still a little sore over what they did to the Shining South though.
Interestingly perhaps, I was very psyched about 4e until I actually saw it. What I was expecting was something like SW Saga... what it turned out to be was a cleaned up and modernized take on 2e IMNSHO, which I despised utterly, the depths of which only deepened as I played it a couple of times. The 4e Realms, while I don't like it, I can accept it. And yes, as far as I personally am concerned, unless they do a reboot, and really nail it, the Realms are dead to me.
I am one of those who used to play in the realms when i was active with D&D. The 4th edition realms changes horrified me and my entire group hasnt played since the edition change (add to that my character was a necromancer).
My GM used to live and breathe the realms, he was fantastic. I dont say that lightly, i think that very few people have what it takes to gm and he got us all to love the realms and we bought lots of realms books, just to look at the pictures of our gods and to know a bit more about where we lived.
I mean, my character was called Shard of Suzail, because where i came from mattered and places like Suzail, or Cormyr, were very dear to our hearts.
The change over lost a lot of good people, myself included, but it is my GM i feel the most sorry for. I dont think it is something that can ever be recovered from and of all the settings, Eberron seems to be the only one that has any appeal to myself and my colleagues. It will never be like the realms was though.
And a note: Suzail and Cormyr still exist as does their history and lore ;)
Thats some comfort at least. Though it feels like a game of Fallout where the rest of the world has been given a healthy helping of nuclear armageddon.
I've played in over 50 LFR adventures and have written various Realms articles and I never once gotten that feeling. Though the Realms have changed, it is up to our imaginations and love for the Realms to steer and keep her on course. Its time to bridge the gap and focus on what we love-- not hate.
My feeling of the New Realms is this...maybe you can understand how people like I feel. We did use our imagination and love for the Realms to steer and keep her on course. Than somebody suddenly picked up the ship and put it into a very different sea...with strange things in it and something that are earily the same...and then said to us to go where ever you want...
My question is how do we know they just won't do that again?
My question is how do we know they just won't do that again?
We don't. I have been saying for almost 2 years give it 5 years and it will change again.
My question is how do we know they just won't do that again?
We don't. I have been saying for almost 2 years give it 5 years and it will change again.
So why invest the same level of paasion and creativity into it, like we have done before?
My question is how do we know they just won't do that again?
We don't. I have been saying for almost 2 years give it 5 years and it will change again.
So why invest the same level of paasion and creativity into it, like we have done before?
Good question.
I am not trying to be fatalistic, but knowing that some sort of change will be coming(in future editions) has made me more inclined to homebrew my Realms. That way my heart won't be broken by someones design decision in some cubical in Renton...
I believe that Ed and some of the freelancers should do all of the Realms work. With the turn over at WotC it's not a consistant design philosophy. All my opinion. Not trying to troll or flamebait the design team. Just to much turn over for my tastes.
Fallout is pretty much a dead world. THere's little to no hope. Everything is broken or tainted in some way. Everything.
FR has, what, maybe a dozen places that are still actively affected by the SpellPlague, at most?
Pretty much every other place in the world is either thriving, or if not thriving, in trouble because of something other than the spellplague. THe world isn't just broken but recovering, it is, for the most part, recovered. It's out of rehab and back hitting the clubs, as it were.
Yes, nations have been lost, and some of them were nations people loved. But the vast majority of the setting is in better shape than the core "setting"....thing. Hell, most of it's in better shape than much of Eberron.
There are still wild places to explore, there are still places and organizations to fuel all of the same campaign concepts as before. Hell, some places are doing better than ever before. Myth Drannor is pretty much the opposite of dying. Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate are thriving.
I'm sad that Calimshan has been plunged into civil war, and I didn't really like the whole "a bunch of folk everyone thought were humans turned out to be genasi" thing, because I don't think the Genasi needed Calimshan, or that the Djinn vs Efreet thing needed a mostly Genasi population to work, and be interesting.
I was also annoyed that Calim and what's his face disapeared. I want a campaign to include their defeat, and subsequently the political healing of that realm. Now, there's no BBEG for each side of the conflict. I can't let shortsighted players kill one of them, and then realize that they've just given the other side so much of an advantage, that the remaining humans are really screwed now, and have them have to deal with that, and try to mitigate the damage.
Without houseruling, of course.
On the other hand, the second FR character I made has the Calimshan background.