Now that 100 years have passed, at least a few of those old coots ought to have succumbed to age at long last.
Including Elminster.
... please?
With the death of Mystra, all of her Chosen have lost the source of their precious (super-)powers.
Now that 100 years have passed, at least a few of those old coots ought to have succumbed to age at long last.
Including Elminster.
... please?
Sorry, all cash cows survive.
Sorry, all cash cows survive.
You're more knowledgeable in this lore (or foresight) than I, but where did you hear this? I was under the assumption that most, if not all, the Seven Sisters went bye-bye.
I also heard that Eliminster went insane--potentially--or has multiple personalities.
This on my own: I've pretty much come to the conclusion that during the Spellplague, Eliminster, being the oldest and most powerful of the Chosen, absorbed the essences of the others to save them from certain death and now internally struggles to contain all that power until he can find a way to restore them.
In the meantime, all the personalities inside him--which, as essence, are now blending with his own--are driving him mad.
Agree? Disagree? Maybe?
And to clarify: I hold no ill will toward the old fellow, I just dislike what he represents within the setting (a subject which has been debated to death, so I won't rehash it). With the new edition and the new timeline, it gives an opportunity to cut some of that power bloat and provide a setting that feels more open to PC influence.
Edit: JudgeDookie -- I like it. It essentially "neuters" him while keeping an icon alive and kicking, and providing PLENTY of story material. Kudos. If that's not the way of it, it should be.
I guess it's too much to hope for a Cash Hamburger alongside all those Sacred Hamburgers. :D
And to clarify: I hold no ill will toward the old fellow, I just dislike what he represents within the setting (a subject which has been debated to death, so I won't rehash it). With the new edition and the new timeline, it gives an opportunity to cut some of that power bloat and provide a setting that feels more open to PC influence.
Edit: JudgeDookie -- I like it. It essentially "neuters" him while keeping an icon alive and kicking, and providing PLENTY of story material. Kudos. If that's not the way of it, it should be.
Why, thank you. I give you the Dookie dance in thanx.
I know some people have issues with him--and, as you stated, it has been beaten to death, so I won't bring it up either. And your statement makes perfect sense.
Much like the gods can come back, this keeps the hope that Eliminster can come back as well.
Another RSE? We'll see.
FYI, I aslo heard that even when he is in his right mind, if he attempts to do magic, then it triggers off his "insanity."
Which pretty much means, if things are as I have heard, he'll really just be a "sage" for a while.
You're more knowledgeable in this lore (or foresight) than I, but where did you hear this? I was under the assumption that most, if not all, the Seven Sisters went bye-bye....
Assumptions aside, I think the only thing we know so far about 4E Elminster is from this: http://pc.ign.com/articles/855/855992p2.html on February 29, 2008.
Relevant portion here:
"...Elminster will still be a powerful figure, but he's afraid to use his magic now, not only because of the effects of the Spell Plague, but also because he's absorbed the memories of a number of powerful beings who tend to take over his mind when he attempts to use magic."
Whether all of that (or any of that) remains true when 4E actually comes out, only time will tell. However, it does seem certain that Elminster survives in some form - probably diminished.
Assumptions aside, I think the only thing we know so far about 4E Elminster is from this: http://pc.ign.com/articles/855/855992p2.html on February 29, 2008.
Relevant portion here:
"...Elminster will still be a powerful figure, but he's afraid to use his magic now, not only because of the effects of the Spell Plague, but also because he's absorbed the memories of a number of powerful beings who tend to take over his mind when he attempts to use magic."
Whether all of that (or any of that) remains true when 4E actually comes out, only time will tell. However, it does seem certain that Elminster survives in some form - probably diminished.
Thanks...
Haven't read that specific board before, but it quotes some of the same sources. If work is lite tomorrow, then I'll try and dig up where I found the other info. I'm pretty positive that the Seven Sisters thing was stated by a WotC writer.
Where the hell is Karsus when you need an all or nothing on something?
Anyways, we'll see.
Overall, I really do think Eliminsters power will be put in check in some way. It alows FR to move forward without those who play it complaining about the guy, while Ed can have him alive and still spin stories about him.
Where the hell is Karsus when you need an all or nothing on something?
-I'm late. Daenaan did a good job covering, however.
-I'm late. Daenaan did a good job covering, however.
Translation: LK stepped away from the "refresh" button for 10 min and someone else managed to respond before he did. Heh!
Translation: LK stepped away from the "refresh" button for 10 min and someone else managed to respond before he did. Heh!
-Not exactly. I wasn't even on the computer at that point in time. I was watching baseball.
Lets just say I don't think Mystra will kill the old sage, but if and when she is manufactured back into the realms cosmos. I belive it will be due to her planting most of her power in the old man. (much like Bane did to Iyachtu Xvim)
Either she comes back as the goddes of magic or Elminster is able to filter in all her power without going insane and take upon the new mantle of God of magic.
I dunno it looks like a good series of books to write to me....Maybe introducing new Forgotten Realms "cashcows characters" who help the process come to fruition.
After the time of troubles Bane "died" and for years his followers worshiped his son (or lets call him the chosen of Bane). His name was Iyachtu Xvim. After a few years of Xvim fighting Cyric for the rest of his dad's portfolio Bane had regained enough power to burst forth from his sons body and be reborn as a greater power.
Lets just say I don't think Mystra will kill the old sage, but if and when she is manufactured back into the realms cosmos. I belive it will be due to her planting most of her power in the old man. (much like Bane did to Iyachtu Xvim)
Either she comes back as the goddes of magic or Elminster is able to filter in all her power without going insane and take upon the new mantle of God of magic.
-That's a good theory, as to the question of who exactly is/are the "voices" inside Elminster's head. As I've said elsewhere, I don't think that the idea that the individuals within his mind are good. Otherwise, why would Elminster fear casting magic and "releasing" them?
After the time of troubles Bane "died" and for years his followers worshiped his son (or lets call him the chosen of Bane). His name was Iyachtu Xvim. After a few years of Xvim fighting Cyric for the rest of his dad's portfolio Bane had regained enough power to burst forth from his sons body and be reborn as a greater power.
Lets just say I don't think Mystra will kill the old sage, but if and when she is manufactured back into the realms cosmos. I belive it will be due to her planting most of her power in the old man. (much like Bane did to Iyachtu Xvim)
Either she comes back as the goddes of magic or Elminster is able to filter in all her power without going insane and take upon the new mantle of God of magic.
I dunno it looks like a good series of books to write to me....Maybe introducing new Forgotten Realms "cashcows characters" who help the process come to fruition.
I still stand by my theory, but want to take a little twist to it in light of your words.
First: I can see Mystra returning at some point.
Second: I can never see Eliminster becoming the god of magic. His point in the Realms has always been to be a personality and not a true power. Otherwise, I believe he would have ascended to at least demi-god status sometime ago--if not right now with 4th ed, in order to keep him, but remove him from the PC's.
Nor do I believe Mystra would sacrifice him for her own return either.
So...
Twist: Assuming he did absorb the Chosen to save them, then there is no return for Mystra. But, if the Chosen were out the door anyways and he knew it, maybe he absorbed them to coalesce their essences (which are all aspects of goddess) and save Mystra.
The only other twist here is that the Simbul up and disappeared. In order to bring the goddess back, he needs her to complete whatever it is that needs done. So now he's stuck with a bunch of Chosen inside him, but can't expel them, less he truly kills the goddess.
As for him casting magic, not only does it bring forth the personalities inside him, but also releases the power of the Chosen he holds.
...?
This sux.
First: I can see Mystra returning at some point.
-I don't believe that the 4e designers will actually being back Mystra, but there is no doubt in my mind that this will be the plotline of a novel series, or adventure.
Second: I can never see Eliminster becoming the god of magic. His point in the Realms has always been to be a personality and not a true power. Otherwise, I believe he would have ascended to at least demi-god status sometime ago--if not right now with 4th ed, in order to keep him, but remove him from the PC's.
-Me neither. Personally, I can't see ANY NPCs as taking up a deific mantle, be they Elminster, the Simbul, Drizzt, Entreri, Cale, or whomever else. Elminster was a percieved problem to begin with, so why would he be made even more powerful?
-I don't believe that the 4e designers will actually being back Mystra, but there is no doubt in my mind that this will be the plotline of a novel series, or adventure.
I can see her coming back--just not in any truly powerful capacity. They've just annihilated the primary gods of magic. Why should warriors have Tempus and magic users not a god/goddess of their own? She wouldn't really have any control over magic, just be that icon people worship.
-Me neither. Personally, I can't see ANY NPCs as taking up a deific mantle, be they Elminster, the Simbul, Drizzt, Entreri, Cale, or whomever else. Elminster was a percieved problem to begin with, so why would he be made even more powerful?
The only reason I can see is to keep him within the game for sentimental sake, but to remove him from any true interference.
I can see her coming back--just not in any truly powerful capacity. They've just annihilated the primary gods of magic. Why should warriors have Tempus and magic users not a god/goddess of their own? She wouldn't really have any control over magic, just be that icon people worship.
-Azuth already exists as a deity of Wizards. Liera/Cyric is there for the Illusionists. Velsharoon exists for Necromancers.
The only reason I can see is to keep him within the game for sentimental sake, but to remove him from any true interference.
-The main reason why he was put into the situation he is currently in is because of the "legions" of individuals who believe him (rightly or wrongly) to be a "Mary-Sue" character. Would it make these people feel better, or further inflame them, to see Elminster a literal deity? By my reasoning, it'd be the latter.
-Azuth already exists as a deity of Wizards. Liera/Cyric is there for the Illusionists. Velsharoon exists for Necromancers.
I was under the assumption that Azuth was now dust? Did I miss something? Seriously--not in sarcasm.
Liera/Cyric have so many portfolio's that I don't believe that either would make a sound deity of magic. Magic is such an integral part of things that it deserves a focal deity.
Velsharoon will only continue to add to the problem of "too many gods" if he continues to exist. Especially if schools of magic are actually ku-put.
-The main reason why he was put into the situation he is currently in is because of the "legions" of individuals who believe him (rightly or wrongly) to be a "Mary-Sue" character. Would it make these people feel better, or further inflame them, to see Elminster a literal deity? By my reasoning, it'd be the latter.
As I said, it would simply be a sentimental thing. Some people would rather have him stay in some capacity. They could have easily have chosen that route than the one they have.
I was under the assumption that Azuth was now dust? Did I miss something? Seriously--not in sarcasm.
No, Azuth is just lost and missing somewhere in the Astral. Probably as good as toast, though.
No, Azuth is just lost and missing somewhere in the Astral. Probably as good as toast, though.
That's what I thought. Which, in itself, brings up a good point. Prior to 4e, when a god/goddess died, his/her essence ended up on the astral and could be used to bring that god back. Do we think that will be the same or did the Spellplague shift in/of planes destroy that?
I was under the assumption that Azuth was now dust? Did I miss something? Seriously--not in sarcasm.
-He's missing, but he's not dead. We as know, they have no qualms killing deities. It was specifically mentioned that he and Velsharoon are simply missing in the Astral.
Velsharoon will only continue to add to the problem of "too many gods" if he continues to exist. Especially if schools of magic are actually ku-put.
-He can also serve as the deity of Undead. Which, I think, in and of itself is a little silly, but...
As I said, it would simply be a sentimental thing. Some people would rather have him stay in some capacity. They could have easily have chosen that route than the one they have.
-I fully understand what you mean. What I am saying is that Elminster and his "munchkiness" is one of the major percieved problems of the Forgotten Realms. We know that that's really not the case. Giving Elminster divinity doesn't really alleviate the problem of "What's Elminster doing that he can't save the world", it would allow those who misunderstand things to believe they were correct in their assertations of Elminster being THE "end all, be all" character, and puts a similar deity of magic in place, which the designers felt was an impediment to things, otherwise they would have left Mystra.
-He's missing, but he's not dead. We as know, they have no qualms killing deities. It was specifically mentioned that he and Velsharoon are simply missing in the Astral.
Again, I ask without sarcasm, Velsharoon? I heard nothing about him. Sargas(?), ys, but Vel--no.
As for the deity of undead...yeah, no.
-I fully understand what you mean. What I am saying is that Elminster and his "munchkiness" is one of the major percieved problems of the Forgotten Realms. We know that that's really not the case. Giving Elminster divinity doesn't really alleviate the problem of "What's Elminster doing that he can't save the world", it would allow those who misunderstand things to believe they were correct in their assertations of Elminster being THE "end all, be all" character, and puts a similar deity of magic in place, which the designers felt was an impediment to things, otherwise they would have left Mystra.
Indeed. Which is probably why they went this route, rather than the other. Now he is simply inert.
Again, I ask without sarcasm, Velsharoon? I heard nothing about him.
-AGHotR. He's mentioned in the same sentence as Azuth.
Now he is simply inert.
-He still has those 7 Levels in Rogue and 3 Levels in Cleric (or something like that), right? That'd make him, ignoring every level in Wizard that he has, a 10th Level character. So, even though he is a 10th Level character, and totally outclasses plenty of PCs, nobody is going to complain about him anymore. Silly, in my estimation.
-AGHotR. He's mentioned in the same sentence as Azuth.
Well, as I have been unfortunate as of yet to pick that up, I'll simply wait. Interesting, though, that I never heard anything of it--at least with rumors.
-AGHotR
-He still has those 7 Levels in Rogue and 3 Levels in Cleric (or something like that), right? That'd make him, ignoring every level in Wizard that he has, a 10th Level character. So, even though he is a 10th Level character, and totally outclasses plenty of PCs, nobody is going to complain about him anymore. Silly, in my estimation.
I concede. Not because I believe it should matter ("silly"), but because it is probably one of those undeniable truths that I have to deny.
Correct me if I'm wrong Mr. Karsus but hasn't Mystra stated that the Chosen are her "reservoirs" of power, so to speak, and as long as they survive, she has a chance to "redeem" herself by taking back that piece of "divinity" each of them hold?
-Yes. We know specifically that this is case with Mystra. I am sure that it is the same with all Chosen, as a deity imbues them all with divine power in order to allow them to carry out their duties.