I might like to explore the birth and growth of Spellswords in FR, but kinda need a starting point. Your thoughts?
-The name of the new class is Swordmage, though. Spellsword is a PrC in Complete Warrior.
-A Human (or some other race) attempting to mimic the Elven Bladesinging arts. Perhaps it originated in Myth Drannor. There you go.
-The name of the new class is Swordmage, though. Spellsword is a PrC in Complete Warrior.
If I recall, the Swordmage started off in Cormyr. But it could easily work as a class that a few humans from Myth Drannor crafted, under Elven guidance, that was inspired by the art of the Bladesinger.
And now to take a jab at Lord Karsus. :P
How much you bet that once FR4.0 hits, LK will start calling all Half-Elf Bladesingers "Swordmages"? Even if Bladesingers are a Swordmage Paragon Path?
Why yes, yes I am bring back up that one thread where we talked about "can/should Half-Elves be Bladesingers?", why do you ask? :PIf I recall, the Swordmage started off in Cormyr. But it could easily work as a class that a few humans from Myth Drannor crafted, under Elven guidance, that was inspired by the art of the Bladesinger.
-The OP was asking about Spellswords, though, not Swordmages. Thus, I answered about Spellswords. I got the impression, though, that the OP meant Swordmages. I could be wrong, though. ;)
And now to take a jab at Lord Karsus. :P
-My AC is absurd, just so you know.
How much you bet that once FR4.0 hits, LK will start calling all Half-Elf Bladesingers "Swordmages"?
-I already call Half-Elf Bladesingers 'Bladesingers'. I don't like the fact that they can be Bladesingers, but they can, so...
Even if Bladesingers are a Swordmage Paragon Path?
-I already asked Rich, and he confirmed that Bladesinger, as a 'Paragon Path' for Swordmage, will be limited only to Elves, Half-Elves, and 'Eladrin'. So, nothing is changing there.
-The OP was asking about Spellswords, though, not Swordmages. Thus, I answered about Spellswords. I got the impression, though, that the OP meant Swordmages. I could be wrong, though. ;)
True, true. Personally, I like the Spellsword PrC more then the Eldrich Knight PrC. Something about still being able to wear armor and cast spells...
-My AC is absurd, just so you know.
Well... I rolled a 16... Didn't have time to buff, nor grab my good equipment. Guess I'm gonna get creamed. :P
-I already call Half-Elf Bladesingers 'Bladesingers'. I don't like the fact that they can be Bladesingers, but they can, so...
At least they are still Elves, and not Drow. Yes, I know Drow can't be Bladesingers, but the first Drow Bladesinger that shows up in a Novel would send you up in flames.
-I already asked Rich, and he confirmed that Bladesinger, as a 'Paragon Path' for Swordmage, will be limited only to Elves, Half-Elves, and 'Eladrin'. So, nothing is changing there.
Yes, I seem to recall this. In hindsight, it makes getting into the Bladesinger "class" alot easier. :P
True, true. Personally, I like the Spellsword PrC more then the Eldrich Knight PrC. Something about still being able to wear armor and cast spells...
-As I was asking some of the CO people some tips for a Fighter/Wizard/Spellsword character, it is apparently a big CO no-no. Going too many levels into Spellsword causes you to lose too many Caster Levels to be optimum. That's the mantra, there. Don't lose Caster Levels.
-That said, I do like the PrC.
Well... I rolled a 16... Didn't have time to buff, nor grab my good equipment. Guess I'm gonna get creamed. :P
-Well, yes, you did miss, but I won't retaliate.
At least they are still Elves, and not Drow. Yes, I know Drow can't be Bladesingers, but the first Drow Bladesinger that shows up in a Novel would send you up in flames.
-We don't know if a Drow could become a Bladesinger or not. Probably not. Being what they are, I don't think they'd be able to "hear" the "song" of the Bladesong.
Yes, I seem to recall this. In hindsight, it makes getting into the Bladesinger "class" alot easier. :P
-The best Bladesinger take there is is the one found in Elves of Faerûn.
The royal guard of the dark elf queen Kiaransalee consisted of the finest darkelven bladesingers of Threnody. :blaspheme mode of:
:P
:blaspheme mode on: As a planeswalking bladesinger threnodian dark elf I am the prime example of a drow being able to hear the bladesong.
The royal guard of the dark elf queen Kiaransalee consisted of the finest darkelven bladesingers of Threnody. :blaspheme mode of:
:P
-I'm don't think that Undead would be able to "hear" the "song". :P
-I'm don't think that Undead would be able to "hear" the "song". :P
Depends on the song. If it's Death metal... :P
Depends on the song. If it's Death metal... :P
-Point taken.
I was and still am a bit of a loss why there are so many very similar core classes and PrC around though, in this case the Eldritch Knight, the Spellsword, and the Duskblade.
I was and still am a bit of a loss why there are so many very similar core classes and PrC around though, in this case the Eldritch Knight, the Spellsword, and the Duskblade.
-It's a classic concept, being able to use magic and fight good, so you're going to get a lot of different variations on the theme (One can use more magic, one can fight a little better, one uses 'support' spells, mostly, and so on).
-It's a classic concept, being able to use magic and fight good, so you're going to get a lot of different variations on the theme (One can use more magic, one can fight a little better, one uses 'support' spells, mostly, and so on).
If that was the case. They are all quite similar, especially the Eldritch Knight and the Spellsword. Only that the latter is more evolved and thus better. The Duskblade is, IMHO, just a Spellsword turned into a full class.
I was and still am a bit of a loss why there are so many very similar core classes and PrC around though, in this case the Eldritch Knight, the Spellsword, and the Duskblade.
And the Hexblade. But I think you could call that one more Fighter/Warlock.
If that was the case. They are all quite similar, especially the Eldritch Knight and the Spellsword. Only that the latter is more evolved and thus better. The Duskblade is, IMHO, just a Spellsword turned into a full class.
-Well, they are all similar, because there is only so much you can do to make a Fighter/Mage attractive. Some, you ou can cast better magic...Some, you can fight...Some, they can do both at the same time pretty good...And, by this point, we're nitpicking, and doing weird little subtle things.
-The long and the short of it, though, I'd rather have too many similar things than not enough. I can then pick and choose whether or not I want to have Spellsword abilities, or Eldrich Knight abilities, or Duskblade, or Hexblade, and so on and so forth.
Here's a stab of an flavorfull bladesinger power I think:
Bladesong Step
Arcane At Will Exploit
With a magic enhanced strike timed at the right moment, you knock your adversary off balance and grant yourself protection against the villain’s attacks as you step away from him.
At will Arcane Exploit, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Int vs. AC Hit: [W] + Int & Str modifier damage. After the attack hits succesfully you move a number of squares equal to your Int modifier avoiding any opportunity attacks as you do so.
Bladesong Presence: The movement equals your Int + your Charisma modifier.
I was thinkin on making an ability tie in to the volume of the Song the elf can muster. As with all Bladesinger powers you must be able to sing or hum. The louder the song the louder the bonus. This could be represented by allowing a higher level bladesinger to decrease the listen dc of battle to double the bonusses granted by his abilities. Perhaps add environmental effects later on like a swirling whirlwind of song able to deafen or hurl enemies at epic levels.
Link please?
If I understand it correctly the Bladesong is the main thing that deferentiates bladesingers from other spellswordlike classes like the eldritch knights and spellswords. The bladesong as a certain pitch of tone and cadance of swordplay that brings the bladesinger into a battle "zen"like state.
-For the most part, this is one of those "fluff" things that doesn't really have an impact in the game.
I was thinkin on making an ability tie in to the volume of the Song the elf can muster. As with all Bladesinger powers you must be able to sing or hum. The louder the song the louder the bonus. This could be represented by allowing a higher level bladesinger to decrease the listen dc of battle to double the bonusses granted by his abilities. Perhaps add environmental effects later on like a swirling whirlwind of song able to deafen or hurl enemies at epic levels.
-The easiest way to handle something like that is to make a Perform: Sing check, and, depending on the roll, refer to a chart, that gives you AC bonus', attack bonus', and/or whatever else. Maybe add your Bladesinger levels into that as well.
-I like that idea, actually. I think I am going to persue something like that, to add to the Bladesinger PrC in Elves of Faerûn. You mind?
Spellsword? FR's 4th thematic class?
Link please?
-I am fairly sure the OP meant the Spellmage, and not the Spellsword.
-The easiest way to handle something like that is to make a Perform: Sing check, and, depending on the roll, refer to a chart, that gives you AC bonus', attack bonus', and/or whatever else. Maybe add your Bladesinger levels into that as well.
-I like that idea, actually. I think I am going to persue something like that, to add to the Bladesinger PrC in Elves of Faerûn. You mind?
Go ahead. Tying it to perform seems natural for 3edition. But it will need to be balanced by giving the class more skill point per level, otherwise you'll just gimp the upperlevel bladesongs as a normal bladesinger gets not enough skillpoints per level.
I dont have CBoE but I remember the bladesong could be used as a counterspell just like the countersong bard ability of 2nd edition AD&D. But this seems more like an epic use of the bladesong.
I fondly remember the scene in Bladesinger where some ruffian warscavengers fight 2 bladesingers, mistaking them for elven maidens. In it one of them fights a thug with his blade and by keen hearing counterspells the spell of another scavenger with his other hand without looking.
Go ahead.
-Thank you.
Tying it to perform seems natural for 3edition. But it will need to be balanced by giving the class more skill point per level, otherwise you'll just gimp the upperlevel bladesongs as a normal bladesinger gets not enough skillpoints per level.
-Let's see...The EoF Bladesinger gets 2+INT Skill Points per level. This is where the + the Bladesinger's Level comes into play. That'd give a maxxed out Bladesinger, using this chart idea, an automatic +15, plus the 4 ranks necessary to even enter into the class. That's a +19 for a maxxed out Bladesinger to begin with. I'll start a new thread on this.
-My AC is absurd, just so you know.
I disbelieve any absurdity in your AC.
I disbelieve any absurdity in your AC.
-If only it worked like that. ;)
Sorry, SwordMage.
-Right.
I love the iconic fighter/mage PC...
Same here. I look forward to seeing how it works in 4E. I have to admit, I wasn't too impressed with the 3E fighter/mage multiclassed combo.
Fighter 1/Wizard 4/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 10/Abjurant Champion 4 is hideous.
BAB 18, 18 levels of casting, and all kinds of nifty benefits. Add the Arcane Strike feat for agony.
Oh and LK, I *love* the Elves of Faerun Bladesinger. I wish that had been the one published during 3E. When I was looking at it, it really kept the flavor I remember from the 2E Book of Elves. A question about it though, if you know the answer: Why 15 levels? Was that just what felt necessary to preserve the feeling of the class?
Oh and LK, I *love* the Elves of Faerun Bladesinger. I wish that had been the one published during 3E. When I was looking at it, it really kept the flavor I remember from the 2E Book of Elves. A question about it though, if you know the answer: Why 15 levels? Was that just what felt necessary to preserve the feeling of the class?
:: Shrugs ::
-That's just the way it came out. Being a Bladesinger is more than just a decision you make at some point in your career, so 10 Levels wouldn't be right, and, at the same time, one does need training in other arts (Magical and Mundane) to become a Bladesinger, so 5 isn't right.
-I am planning on modifying the Bladesinger slightly, to reflect "entering into the Bladesong", via the use of the Perform (Sing/Dance) skill, to bestow a couple of bonuses, such a a + to AC, or a + to BAB, as per a chart. When and where I do that, I don't know, but when all is said and done, the PrC will be altered to reflect those changes.
:: Shrugs ::
-That's just the way it came out. Being a Bladesinger is more than just a decision you make at some point in your career, so 10 Levels wouldn't be right, and, at the same time, one does need training in other arts (Magical and Mundane) to become a Bladesinger, so 5 isn't right.
-I am planning on modifying the Bladesinger slightly, to reflect "entering into the Bladesong", via the use of the Perform (Sing/Dance) skill, to bestow a couple of bonuses, such a a + to AC, or a + to BAB, as per a chart. When and where I do that, I don't know, but when all is said and done, the PrC will be altered to reflect those changes.
I look forward to it
I imagine other ancient wizard empires had something along those lines though the Raumathar had such for certain according to FR lore. Though I have not read anything of who started their ways in the FR lore.
Well, you have to do it funny, but...
Fighter 1/Wizard 4/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 10/Abjurant Champion 4 is hideous.
BAB 18, 18 levels of casting, and all kinds of nifty benefits. Add the Arcane Strike feat for agony.
See, I guess I'm not good at figuring out that stuff.
Well, you have to do it funny, but...
Fighter 1/Wizard 4/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 10/Abjurant Champion 4 is hideous.
BAB 18, 18 levels of casting, and all kinds of nifty benefits. Add the Arcane Strike feat for agony.
Nice one. I'll try it one day if I can.