The True Harpers number less than one hundred and operate in total secrecy: it was one of them that orchestrated the founding of the Harpers of Luruar as a way to discover possible new talent and as a cover for the real organisation.
The True Harpers are led by the Twelve Master Harpers, who meet once a month under Selûne's watchful gaze. They carry no obvious identification and never act openly on behalf of the organisation, instead working through other cover organisations and by sponsoring adventuring groups. Messages are passed by secret ways and most True Harpers know only aliases of their superiors. Outsiders are never told of the existence of the organisation.
A typical cell will consist of one Harper - a leader or advisor - and a group of others who do not know for whom they work. They may call themselves the "Harpers of Arabel" (for example) in tribute to the legendary organisation but without knowing of their link to its successor. Often they will be called something else completely.
It keeps the Harpers around and at large, but it also keeps them as patrons for the players to do the actual adventuring. Although what does PEACH mean?Although what does PEACH mean?
It seems to be local code for "I'm looking for constructive criticism" around here.
Also, we can use your assorted successor organisations as well, to add to the confusion. Some of them might even be True Harper fronts ...
This idea also comes with built-in story armour: even if WotC come out with official Harpers this lot can still exist and operate without disturbing the continuity.
While true, it doesn't need (IMO) to have story armour. Whatever you say is true in your game, is true. Official canon be damned
Also, we can use your assorted successor organisations as well, to add to the confusion. Some of them might even be True Harper fronts ...
Could definitely do that if you wanted
While true, it doesn't need (IMO) to have story armour. Whatever you say is true in your game, is true. Official canon be damned
It's a nice feature though.
18DELTA
A) It just sounds a lot cooler than 'The True Harpers'.
B) Faerûn is at a metaphorical twilight, with the light (good) diminishing, and the darkness (evil) taking precedence.
I like it, although I would change a few things.
First, I'd change the whole bit about the gods coming down and encouraging the reformation of the group. I'd rather say that a group of powerful, maybe mid to high-ranking Harpers got together and decided to save the group as it began to fall apart in the wake of the chaos of the Spellplague.
Second, rather than having the Chosen be part of the "leaders", I like the idea of the True Harpers spiriting away the surviving Chosen to protect them from reprisal from their many enemies. After all, the death of Mystra weakened them. I'm sure they'd be a great source of advice, but in general, the running of the operations doesn't seem like their type of gig.
That would explain why the Simbul is no longer Queen of Aglarond. She was spirited away, rumors by the True Harpers fabricated about her death, and she and Elminster were taken to a secluded farm in the Dalelands. Everyone believes they are dead, but are, in fact, in a sort of "safe house" situation.
Outside of that, I can imagine a number of splinter groups forming on their own, low ranking and local members keeping up the old traditions and passing it on and what not. So even if you find a cell of Harpers somewhere they might not be part of the True Harpers, or whatever you want to call them.
Overall, though I like this idea.
I wasn't clear about Elminster either: he's not one of the Twelve, nor does he have anything much to do with them - the odd consultation perhaps. There's no way he could be involved without compromising the security of the group.
If you look at JohnLynch's thread you'll see he already suggested a collection of splinter groups, which is what we were talking about above, which makes a lot of logical sense and would provide a lot of cover for the real thing as well. Not to mention entertaining situations where players discover that some of the rival groups don't like each other much ...
Yeah, it's why I like in general what they did with the Harpers. They're still around, just an actual secret society now. I disliked how they handled the Harpers up until that point, where they were basically an open secret where most people who were in the know could probably point you in the direction of one Harper or another. It just felt wrong. Such people would be killed, not necessarily just by "villains" but from lawful governments who don't want them to meddle in their affairs.
I think a lot of the core goals of the Harpers were overlooked. For example, in 4th Edition, if the Harpers stay true to their goals, they'd be opposed to Imperial Cormyr because they believe kingdoms should be small. They'd oppose any sort of imperial ambitions.
Anyway, it's just a personal preference. I don't like having deities have such a direct hand in mortal affairs. Divine Inspiration? Sure. Coming down as an avatar and handing out instructions in person? Not so much.
I don't think just because Shar is the Lady of Secrets that she simply hands them out to her faithful. She is, by definition, the goddess of secrets. Thus, there is no reason she'd give such knowledge out. Plus, if she could do such a thing, Shar would have already won as no one would be able to plot against her or her church. :P
But yeah, it is for issues like this with Shar that I do not like the gods showing up in person to hand out duties to mortals. It opens up a can of worms of why Shar is not handing out secrets to her faithful to help them defeat her enemies, as well as other similar things for other gods. It's best just to keep them out of it.
I hadn't got to goals (though I recall the Harpers being wary of Cormyr in at least some sources) but certainly they'd consider Imperial Cormyr as at best a necessary evil.
-I'd change the name back to their original name: The Harpers at Twilight. Two reasons:
A) It just sounds a lot cooler than 'The True Harpers'.
B) Faerûn is at a metaphorical twilight, with the light (good) diminishing, and the darkness (evil) taking precedence.
Seconded, it really does sound better.
I don't think just because Shar is the Lady of Secrets that she simply hands them out to her faithful. She is, by definition, the goddess of secrets. Thus, there is no reason she'd give such knowledge out.
-Prince Rivalen is constantly frustrated by Shar's lack of information providing, only making sense of things in retrospect.
In 1420DR, seven centuries after the founding of the original Harpers, twelve powerful adventurers from across Faerûn were called to the Dancing Place by the surviving gods of the original group that manifested in 720DR, together with Elminster and some other survivors of the original Harpers, and asked to refound the Harpers as a truly secret organisation dedicated to blunting the worst of the depredations of the various new threats to the balance of Faerûn.
The True Harpers number less than one hundred and operate in total secrecy: it was one of them that orchestrated the founding of the Harpers of Luruar as a way to discover possible new talent and as a cover for the real organisation.
The True Harpers are led by the Twelve Master Harpers, who meet once a month under Selûne's watchful gaze. They carry no obvious identification and never act openly on behalf of the organisation, instead working through other cover organisations and by sponsoring adventuring groups. Messages are passed by secret ways and most True Harpers know only aliases of their superiors. Outsiders are never told of the existence of the organisation.
A typical cell will consist of one Harper - a leader or advisor - and a group of others who do not know for whom they work. They may call themselves the "Harpers of Arabel" (for example) in tribute to the legendary organisation but without knowing of their link to its successor. Often they will be called something else completely.
I am for keeping the harpers a secret, it makes sense and actually fits with official canon.
The cell thing I am not sure about - kinda mirrors Shars church a bit too much for my taste. I would suggest to make it a kind of secret network where most of the active work can be done by adventurers (thereby bringing the players into the fold) but there are many who are harpers but don´t go out adventuring - they just keep their eyes open and report useful information to their superiors (possibly using magic to help security).
This does n´t go against your idea that harpers don´t use the pin or identify themselves to non-members as harpers, and there can of course be parts of the organization or even separate groups that call themselves harpers that are or are not supported by the secret harpers.
I imagine it could work like this:
The group of adventurers enters a new town in search of work and of course a bit adventure. One of the members is secretly a harper and receives news that there are indicators that a local duke is planning something sinister and may be sponsoring a new vicious band of brigands that has made the live of the ruler very complicated. Especially since a certain duke is more or less openly calling for a new, more competent ruler....
Now the harper can use this information to suggest to his group that it would be a mighty fine idea to check out the increased brigand activity and maybe the lord will grand them a reward. If the group does happen to find out who sponsored the brigands it would of course be a nice coincidence that the duke is held responsible for his actions ..... and the best thing about it is that not the harpers stopped the evil thread but a band of young troublesome adventurers who just don´t know better :D
Maybe the harpers could this way be a counter Zentarim - they currently have no real competition I guess :D
I hope I didn´t screw with you baby there Colman
I think a lot of the core goals of the Harpers were overlooked. For example, in 4th Edition, if the Harpers stay true to their goals, they'd be opposed to Imperial Cormyr because they believe kingdoms should be small. They'd oppose any sort of imperial ambitions.
Anyway, it's just a personal preference. I don't like having deities have such a direct hand in mortal affairs. Divine Inspiration? Sure. Coming down as an avatar and handing out instructions in person? Not so much.
I don't think just because Shar is the Lady of Secrets that she simply hands them out to her faithful. She is, by definition, the goddess of secrets. Thus, there is no reason she'd give such knowledge out. Plus, if she could do such a thing, Shar would have already won as no one would be able to plot against her or her church. :P
But yeah, it is for issues like this with Shar that I do not like the gods showing up in person to hand out duties to mortals. It opens up a can of worms of why Shar is not handing out secrets to her faithful to help them defeat her enemies, as well as other similar things for other gods. It's best just to keep them out of it.
So small kindoms are better? No I am not buying it, it sounds too much like anti-corporation arguments and they aren´t really that good. It really would not make sense for the harpers to be against the only human land that has the guts to oppose Netheril.
Shar keeping secrets from her faithfull is great in my book, Shar is the one who knows what others keep secret and Oghma is the one who know about everything but both know when to keep silent.
So small kindoms are better? No I am not buying it, it sounds too much like anti-corporation arguments and they aren´t really that good.
That's beside the point: it's been a part of the Harper philosophy from the start. You're obviously not cut out to be a Harper!
The cell thing I am not sure about - kinda mirrors Shars church a bit too much for my taste.
If you want to stay secret that's how you do it. It's a basic tactic.
So small kindoms are better? No I am not buying it, it sounds too much like anti-corporation arguments and they aren´t really that good. It really would not make sense for the harpers to be against the only human land that has the guts to oppose Netheril.
I didn't make it up. It's the Code the Harpers follow, or are supposed to at least. Look it up in the Code of the Harpers, a 2E Forgotten Realms Accessory written by Ed Greenwood and published by TSR.
That's beside the point: it's been a part of the Harper philosophy from the start. You're obviously not cut out to be a Harper!
And just when I was ready to sent that Moonstars application form - the spellplague hit ;) But seriously, I can understand that they don´t want a single nation cover Faerun, but decentralization is something they wont have time for.
They will be far to busy preventing Netheril from swallwing the whole region - and if the elves wren´t there it would already have happened.
Maybe the thing with small Kindoms was that the big ones thend to step on the little man - but it´s actually no big deal if they aren´t happy about Cormyrs expansion south, they need a strong Cormyr as a block to Netherils expansion plans.
If you want to stay secret that's how you do it. It's a basic tactic.
Yes it is but currently I associate cells more with terrorism than valiant heroes . I know my argument stinks, just look at robin hood, essentially he was using gorrilla :D tactics.
But maybe there is a middle way. The operatives only know their contact in the organisation, they don´t know the closest safe house or other agents. That way even if the operative gets interrogated he can only tell them so much, and if you find a way for them to communicate that doesn´t put the contact harpers in danger (charlies angels ;) ) it can be about as save as a cell. I just don´t see them working together all that close (of course their are some that work together - that would be your cell I guess).
I didn't make it up. It's the Code the Harpers follow, or are supposed to at least. Look it up in the Code of the Harpers, a 2E Forgotten Realms Accessory written by Ed Greenwood and published by TSR.
I don´t have access to the source so I don´t know under which circumstances the code was established. So were there any big kingdoms at the time that made them include this, does it really make sense?
The only great empires I can remember are Netheril and Imaskar and of course the elves am I forgetting anything?