I've always thought of the Underdark as being unique to the Forgotten Realms. But with all the new 4e material I'm becoming very confused. I really don't know what material fits and what doesn't anymore.
For example, what god in the FR replaces Torog? I've tried to think of several, but I'm at a loss to come up with one.
but to answer the question the following list would be where I'd start
deity:
Grumbar( IISIR, the primordial of earth)
Shar( has caverns and underdark)
lolth( she has drow and spiders and other things that crawl in the night)
but as I said the lore in that book has nothing to do with the realms lorewise, the only thing useful in it, is the specific lore for the underdark(namely the geography and encounters), but the lore for the underdark cities, nope one is Greyhawk and the others are the Core POL world.
Gomez
Nobody know what exactly happened in the Days of Thunder, or during the Dawn War.
There cvould ahve been d Torog-like deity. If we assume that, then most underdark material can be used as-is', even assuming a Torog exists (or has existed), allowing the use of any elements that rely on that lore. Just assume that, to make it match with Realmslore, nobody ever heared of Torog (maybe even due to Lolth's manipulations), and he therefor effectively does not exist (at least as far as the common people know).
I don't think FR actually says how the underdark was created, so adding the myth of Torog does not conflict with any lore.
Could make an interesting campaign: people free an abomination from the underdark, only to find it is a crippled evil deity (or maybe an exceptionally powerful exarch), imprisoned millenia ago by Loth (and Loviatar?) as they claimed his influence on the underdark and torture.
Gomez
(snip) I've always thought of the Underdark as being unique to the Forgotten Realms. (snip)
Why?
The Underdark first appears in a 1E Greyhawk product (arguably D1 [the first part of what was later published as D1-2 Descent into the Depths of the Earth]). The Dungeoneer's Survival Guide (1E hardback) was also, more or less, a Greyhawk product.
The Underdark was never unique to FR. It predates the published version of FR.
Torog fits easily enough into FR. He can just be a lost god.
However, perhaps Ibrandul survived somehow, as a prisoner, locked in the underdark. Or perhaps he has returned from the dead in some fashion. Or perhaps part of Shar has fragmented and believes itself to be Ibrandul. There's a lot to work with there.
Diinkarazan might work as another alternative. He was one of the twin gods of the Derro. He was betrayed by his brother Dirrinka to Ilsensine who kept him imprisoned in a layer of the Abyss, where he rots, hopelessly insane. While he was originally more of a Greyhawk deity, the Derro did/do have a presence in Toril's underdark and therefore their gods should have a presence in the FR Cosmology as well. The FR version of Diinkarazan would probably be imprisoned in the plane of Deep Caverns, now called the Dismal Caverns post Spellplague. With the chaos that ensued following the Spellplague, that seems like a pretty good explanation for why he might have broken out of prison, though he is probably still very, very mad.
Ibrandul was a CN lesser god of caverns, dungeons, the Underdark and skulks.
His divine realm was Ibrandyllaran, located in Pandemonium in 2e, and the Deep Caverns in 3e, now called the Dismal Caverns in 4e.
There's actually a lot of cool information about him in there, but of particular note is this passage: "Unbeknownst to his worshipers, Ibrandul was killed during the Godswar by Shar. The now-petrified remains of his avatar are believed to lie at the bottom of a vast chasm in a lost level of Undermountain. Shar has always jealously guarded her rulership over darkness and those who work in it, and when Ibrandul was tremendously weakened by being forced into a minor avatar form (as all the powers were) during the Time of Troubles, Shar killed him for daring to subvert followers away from her ranks. When the gods ascended to the heavens, Shar had acquired the power and portfolio of Ibrandul. Shar’s guise as Ibrandul is quite useful to her, allowing her to subvert the worship of her hated enemy Selûne without drawing attention to her most faithful worshipers, the nightcloaks."
forget his name, but I'm not sure he'd fit
But if you really must have a dwarf god, there's Laduguer, patron of duergar. He's evil. He's also presumably dead, but that doesn't mean much. Gods can always come back. Or turn out to have a spark left in them. Although he is very lawful. More of a strict tyrant kind of evil, not the raging chaotic fury kind of evil.
Then there's Abbathor another evil god of greed. He's neutral evil, not lawful, but still more of an insidious schemer, not really much of a raging chaotic hellion. Although he could be used that way. Think of that evil leprechaun from the Leprechaun movies. "I wants me gold!"
That leaves only Dumathoin, a neutral god of death and secrets. He's pretty law abiding and not all that grim for a death god. He really doesn't fit the bill. But you could work with him. Maybe he went off the deep end after the Spellplague, uncovered or unleashed some secret that made him crazed and violent. It's a possibility.
Then there's Deep Duerra, sort of an illithid-hating amazon wild warrior woman. She's lawful evil. She's also dead. But maybe she's too much of a stretch. I don't see her fitting the bill.
But what if Deep Duerra had a son? Maybe she spawned some monstrosity that got chained up in the Underdark? That could work. Especially if the child was the result of an unwilling encounter with some horrid god, primordial, far-realms abomination, or other entity.
But heck, if we're making up gods, why not just use Torog?
Deep Duerra ascended to godhood in -1800 DR. As a Calishite god, Ibrandul may date back to -6060 DR or even farther back. The Calishite pantheon is a little vague. He might have been one of the dark gods worshipped by the Bakkals from -5790 to -5300 DR. Faiths & Avatars says his worship began in the prehistory of Calimshan.
Ibrandul is an interesting god. Not sure if he is even originally a human deity. His favored form resembles an elongated, wingless red dragon. Which could mean he is an ascended landwyrm or leftover god from the time of dragons, or perhaps an ascended serpentine creature from the time of the sarrukh. Of course he doesn't always appear in lizard form. He also often appears as a hulking faceless stone humanoid. But he can shapechange into whatever he likes and sometimes appears as a calishite human, or as a stone roper to the drow.
I think Ibrandul had a lot of potential as an interesting god. It's a shame he wasn't explored more in lore. This whole discussion makes me want to find a way to use him in my own campaign.
I've always thought of the Underdark as being unique to the Forgotten Realms.
Actually FR ripped off the Underdark from the Greyhawk Setting, it's not an FR-Original
If you want to use Torog or an entity that's like Torog just make him the twisted remains of one of the many slain underdark deities.
It's likely that Ed Greenwood's Realms had some kind of "Underdark"--dwarven kingdoms, cavern systems, expansive labyrinths and such--before D&D published their first Underdark modules. Sure, Ed, and, more influentially with regard to the Underdark, RA Salvatore, took elements (like the drow and Lolth) and ran with them, enriching the existing lore to create such a vivid milieu. When the Forgotten Realms replaced Greyhawk as the official game setting with the introduction of AD&D 2nd edition, it's only natural that certain fundamental D&D concepts would be expanded on in that setting. Unquestionably the depth and breadth of the available material has made the Underdark a signature feature (if not an exclusive one) of the Realms. But I consider that a tribute to Gary Gygax (and Verne, and Burroughs, et al.) not a "rip-off."
