I'm a bit out of the loop, so could use some info! During the big cross over to 4th edition, was there anything drastic that happened to tieflings? The blurb about them in the player's handbook doesn't sound much like the demonic bloodline stuff I'm use to.
Are tieflings in FR still the same as always? Or did they all get retconned and morph into what looks like satan's instrument? I always thought they had subtle features, not this obnoxious "hey guys I have horns and stuff" appearance.
They way they look is all fluff and if you wanted to change it where you just got horns, or what ever like in Planescape, I see no problem with that, I dont think theres anything set in stone that says FR Tieflings are exactly the same as Core Tieflings.
In the Races of Faerun book, it says they are the descendant of a half-fiend and humanoid. Does this still hold then? (As opposed to the core which mentions something about mages who dabbled in inferno magic or something along those lines..)
In the Races of Faerun book, it says they are the descendant of a half-fiend and humanoid. Does this still hold then? (As opposed to the core which mentions something about mages who dabbled in inferno magic or something along those lines..)
I think both are considered acceptable in the Realms, though the latter doesn't overtake the former just because it's Core, similar to the lifespans issue.
What lifespan issue? (I'm really out of the loop :P)
Edit: And hey, while I'm here on the new forums, are all the old threads deleted then? I had some good conversations with some dude regarding FR lore that I can't seem to find..
What lifespan issue? (I'm really out of the loop :P)
The Core lifespans for some races, such as Elves and Half-Elves, are significantly different than what's been established in the Realms. The official stance is that the Core lifespans simply don't apply, because they're so radically different and **** with NPCs that have survived the century time jump.
Edit: And hey, while I'm here on the new forums, are all the old threads deleted then? I had some good conversations with some dude regarding FR lore that I can't seem to find..
What old threads are you specifically looking for? I believe a number of them no longer show any posts at all, a result of the Great Change of these boards.
What lifespan issue? (I'm really out of the loop :P)
Edit: And hey, while I'm here on the new forums, are all the old threads deleted then? I had some good conversations with some dude regarding FR lore that I can't seem to find..
Alot of Core lifespans dont match up with established FR lore, Like for instance Core Elves live to be like 200 where as its well documented that elves in the Realms live to be like 1,000 years old. Realmslore trumps Core.
Yeah what Lord Manshoon said
Well that's interesting. Thanks for the info.
The thread in particular I was looking for was from a couple years ago actually. It involved the discussion of the cosmology of the realms, deities, their avatars, instances of deities from one verse to the next, etc.
Was it Gray Richardson? Thats sounds right up his alley of expertise.
Tieflings would come from the old Narfell domains. Narfell was an Ancient Empire that summoned alot of Fiends, before getting destroyed. Or just have the Spellplague change people into Tieflings if you want.
descendandts of warlocks and fiend mating humanoids.... thats how I view 'em as
Was it Gray Richardson? Thats sounds right up his alley of expertise.
Tieflings would come from the old Narfell domains. Narfell was an Ancient Empire that summoned alot of Fiends, before getting destroyed. Or just have the Spellplague change people into Tieflings if you want.
It was indeed Gray Richardson. We had a multi paged thread going on Cosmology. That dawg knows his stuff.
Old Narfell domains... bleh this is getting confusing. I think I'll stick to the simple formula as outligned in Races of Faerun.
fiend + human = half fiend
half fiend + human = tiefling
tiefling + tiefling = tiefling
tiefling + human = human or tiefling, but if human, has the genes in him or whatever for a possible tiefling later down the line.
I've just come to Forgotten Realms with 4th edition, so my Tieflings have had horns and tails. These have even figured into the story in small ways.
Yeah, the 4e material has run pretty roughshod over anything different from 4e core, even stuff that was well established previously. Tieflings with gigantic cow horns and a monolithic origin are in for 4e, and the vast variety of nature and appearance that was at the core of what tieflings were all about in 2e and 3e is out.
It's a shame.
not entirely ......
its still cannon
Old Narfell domains... bleh this is getting confusing. I think I'll stick to the simple formula as outligned in Races of Faerun.
fiend + human = half fiend
half fiend + human = tiefling
tiefling + tiefling = tiefling
tiefling + human = human or tiefling, but if human, has the genes in him or whatever for a possible tiefling later down the line.
Almost, I think, or perhaps my own DM flair, I often forget. :P But tiefling + humanoid=tiefling because of dominant demonic gene traits make more tieflings.
I think the appearances are all a matter of player and DM choice. The Revenant article certainly invited leeway in presentation and I doubt it was meant to be reserved for that one particular race.
Tieflings on Abeir, the transdimensianal parallel world of Toril, are likely to be the origin of the more stable horned and tailed breed.You can even plug in the (admittedly awesome) Beal Turach background over there.
Samantha, my FR tiefling, has very subtle features - tiny horns and an elegant tail (with a little arrowpoint at the end). There is also the suggestion of wings when one first sees her.
Then again, Sam was originally an alu-fiend in old Narfell, who became a succubus in service of Grazz't when she fled the conflagaration, and was finally 'cast down' into tiefling form.
Still, I chose to use a more subtle approach than the ram-horn redskinned monstrosities that Core tieflings seem to be.
Gomez
I wish WotC would have done more with them. But I guess I get to have fun with them.
there is one good thing about the appearance of the coretiefling.
make ues of the cloak of the bat, and go raiding at night.....
they all just flee screaming demon
there is one good thing about the appearance of the coretiefling.
make ues of the cloak of the bat, and go raiding at night.....
they all just flee screaming demon
Couldn't really blame 'em, could you? :P
no.. but it makes easy work for banditry......
In my FR game, I blamed their new "satan's nieces and nephews" appearance on the Spell-plague. As they were beings with some high end magic using DNA, I figured the S-P lit them up like a light bulb.
I was even debating blaming the S-P for Dragonborn - I wasn't too sure how I liked the whole Abeir crossover stuff, and was considering declaring the Dragonborn to be 3.5 Sorcerers of Draconic bloodlines who go mutated by the 'plague.
The Spell-plague is such a nice blanket to hide all your inconsistencies under huh?
I kept the old style and included the new style in my own Realms.
The new, super-infernal spellbound ones are primarily found in Returned Abeir and elsewhere where rifts appeared during the Spellplague. These guys are nicknamed "Darkblood Tieflings" and consider themselves to be the true Tieflings. They hate their half-human counterparts with a passion, for the most part.
The half-fiend, half-human ones are called "Grayblood Tieflings". Their human heritage is more apparent than their fiendish traits, and they're generally a more agreeable lot in common society.
LM has it right, and dont argue with him, he might blast you into some other part of the realms
Lackey...
Lackey...
Just because he likes my idea doesn't make him a sycophant. Care to tell us what you've done with Tieflings in your game?
Left them as is...
I've only seen one tiefling so far in our games, and he's been happy to use the 4e presentation. If I were a DM I wouldn't care either way but I think your take is a very good one to keep in mind, Manshoon.
I kept the old style and included the new style in my own Realms.
The new, super-infernal spellbound ones are primarily found in Returned Abeir and elsewhere where rifts appeared during the Spellplague. These guys are nicknamed "Darkblood Tieflings" and consider themselves to be the true Tieflings. They hate their half-human counterparts with a passion, for the most part.
The half-fiend, half-human ones are called "Grayblood Tieflings". Their human heritage is more apparent than their fiendish traits, and they're generally a more agreeable lot in common society.
Ok... i'm jumping on the LM's Lackey Bandwagon - i like that treatment of Tieflings - even the names Darkblood / Grayblood sound cool...
*bows before LM*
I'm totally using them next time I game hehe
It appears the people like what they see. My thanks for the compliments.
I kept the old style and included the new style in my own Realms.
The new, super-infernal spellbound ones are primarily found in Returned Abeir and elsewhere where rifts appeared during the Spellplague. These guys are nicknamed "Darkblood Tieflings" and consider themselves to be the true Tieflings. They hate their half-human counterparts with a passion, for the most part.
The half-fiend, half-human ones are called "Grayblood Tieflings". Their human heritage is more apparent than their fiendish traits, and they're generally a more agreeable lot in common society.
I don't fully understand your Darkblood Tieflings, due to not fully understanding the Spellplague and Returned Abeir, but I think this is a good idea to distinguish between the two.
I don't fully understand your Darkblood Tieflings, due to not fully understanding the Spellplague and Returned Abeir, but I think this is a good idea to distinguish between the two.
I would try to explain the whole Spellplauge thing, but it would just sound crazy.
Our group hasn't felt the need to define an origin for 4e FR tieflings. They're just one of the races in the world, no biggie. We do tend to describe them more on the goat-horned human side rather than the huge-rams-horns red-skinned side, though. 4e tieflings seem to be fairly cosmetically bulky; ours aren't so much. Psychologically, they have hopes and dreams and fears the same as anyone. They tend to be solitary, mysterious wanderers, as there's no Tiefling Nation. Some are good, many are a little shady: the usual for NPCs.
Author versus sourcebook, the sourcebook is gonna win every single time in my book.
Author versus sourcebook, the sourcebook is gonna win every single time in my book.
For which WOTC cares not a bit.
I'm currently playing a human-turned-tiefling from Narfell who was kidnapped and corrupted by a fiend in Val Murthag. She's been his apprentice in the darkest of arts, manipulating her in hopes to free his brethren from the vaults underneath the ruined fortress. Long story short, she used her Soulsword and destroyed her master's plans and escaped, eventually picked up by the Simbul and welcomed by the Simbarch council. She looks human for the most part, except small horns sprouting from her brow which is hidden by her blonde hair. Since she is a barbarian of origin, I have her dressed in Nordic styled clothes, with a tiara (or battle helm) attached to her horns to make it look like it is a headpiece most of the time and furred cloak. Basically alot like the female Loki from Marvel's Thor, except blonde and with eyebrows. XDAs for Magadon, he CALLED himself a tiefling, but he was in actuality a half-fiend. I think Kemp used the cutting of Mag's horns as a device that decreased his devilish power (much like Hellboy).
The consumer, the despoiler, has come to Narfell. Hi followers have taken Highwatch and slain all who held it-save one.
Book 1 The Fall of Highwatch
Book 2 The Hand of the Hunter November 2010
Book 3 Cry of the Ghost Wolf. November 2011
Vengance will be yours, the Master of the Hunt Promises. If you survive.
It looks like book one is out already...
Looks interesting.
Author versus sourcebook, the sourcebook is gonna win every single time in my book.
I'll agree. Though, there is always the "canon is canon" contradiction.
As for Magadon, he CALLED himself a tiefling, but he was in actuality a half-fiend. I think Kemp used the cutting of Mag's horns as a device that decreased his devilish power (much like Hellboy).
No. I talked to Paul about it and he was quite honest in the fact that he wasn't aware of everything that was specified in the sourcebooks. One of the reasons I respect him more among many of the authors--he doesn't try to fabricate excuses or create hypothetical debates for his mistakes.
FYI Mark Sehestedt has a series coming out called "Chosen of Nendawen"The consumer, the despoiler, has come to Narfell. Hi followers have taken Highwatch and slain all who held it-save one.
Book 1 The Fall of Highwatch
There was a LFR adventure out that dealt with the aftermath of that book.
It was fair adventure, slightly marred by the fact hat you could not really follow up on it, since the actual significant events take place in the novels.
Gomez
PS - Tiefling's heritage is devilish, not demonic... big diff.
Only in 4e.
Previously they had a rather rich history as being descended from any (or even multiple) fiendish bloodlines (baatezu, tanar'ri, yugoloth, rakshasa, etc)
Hey Shemeska. Is Rip still around? It as been a while for me on these forums.
Thanks.
(sorry for the train reck)
He's still around here and there.
I've been around a lot less though. Between the forums all but inducing eye-bleeding and WotC managing to entirely turn me off of FR in 4e, I've been spending time elsewhere. Mostly just lurking around here.
I LOVE TIEFLINGS!!!! although if i were one i would resist cold instead of fire. i allow my players that option since there r 2, count em 2, distinct icy levels of the nine hells. yay!
Yeah that makes sense, theres Ice Devils so there should be Ice Tieflings.