Hartsvale is really enclaved in the middle of nowhere. With the highest peaks of the Ice Mountains, called the Ice Spires in Hartsvale, to the south and west; a lower, secodary range of the Ice Spires to the north, beyond which is the Great Glacier; and dry, frozen moors and hills, and more Ice Spires peaks to the east, beyond which is the even drier Anauroch.
I still need to work-out some stangeness with the geography - there is a section of The Cold Wood that extends north into the mountains (simply called Coldwoods), and the forest to the west is just roughed-in (it needs to be split, and spread, etc...).
I once presented a more 'squished' version, using the lake shown in the northern portion of the SM map as Fief Lake, but it didn't really work out, so I extended everything (these are giants living here, after all!) and plan to add all of the stuff from the novel now.
Regardless, the trilogy sucked so bad, I don't know why anyone would want to find the place to begin with.
From what I recall, it was removed from the map in 3e.
-I don't know myself, but I recall someone saying that the trilogy wasn't even intended to be in the Forgotten Realms to begin with, and that it was kinda shoehorned in there near the end of the production. If that's the case, I almost feel sorry for it- rushed in at the last moment, and then removed at first opportunity (well, we all know that it's technically still there, just not on the map)...
Just the very southern edge of it... but it was acknowledged.
Its also mentioned in the 3e GHotR (and they are now another bunch of Netherese survivors).
It appeared on the 3e map in the Silver Marches product.
Just the very southern edge of it... but it was acknowledged.
:lightbulb Thats where I saw it! :D
-I don't know myself, but I recall someone saying that the trilogy wasn't even intended to be in the Forgotten Realms to begin with, and that it was kinda shoehorned in there near the end of the production.
I can easily see that. The trilogy was so off the map (pun unintended) from the norm of FR that it makes perfect sense to me.
It appeared on the 3e map in the Silver Marches product.
Just the very southern edge of it... but it was acknowledged.
But not in the FRCG
Its also mentioned in the 3e GHotR (and they are now another bunch of Netherese survivors).
Eh. Subject to their own fruck up.
I can easily see that. The trilogy was so off the map (pun unintended) from the norm of FR that it makes perfect sense to me.
-So I've heard.
-Not having read it, and being as that I have no inkling to do so, just what exactly is so far out there? I know it has to do with Giants, but...Is it the placement of people/places? Themes? Concepts? Story?
-So I've heard.
-Not having read it, and being as that I have no inkling to do so, just what exactly is so far out there? I know it has to do with Giants, but...Is it the placement of people/places? Themes? Concepts? Story?
I've only read the first book, but what might throw people off is how the series appears to be very insular and VERY giant-oriented. I recall there not being much mentioned of "regular" Faerun.
I've only read the first book, but what might throw people off is how the series appears to be very insular and VERY giant-oriented. I recall there not being much mentioned of "regular" Faerun.
-But asides for having Giants, and being mostly self-contained (as most series'/novels are), there wasn't anything too wacky, up until what you read? No, like, robot dinosaurs, let's say; something outlandish.
These novels could be placed on any world containing giants, and it wouldn't matter.
Also, it had clever Ogres, which was a bit different, but the Giantcraft supplement covered that (Ice Spire Ogres ARE different).
Its interesting to note that the only author that kept 'true' to the Twilight Giants Firbolgs was RAS, in the Cleric Quintet. The ones in the Moonshae novels were just a complete mess.
-But asides for having Giants, and being mostly self-contained (as most series'/novels are), there wasn't anything too wacky, up until what you read? No, like, robot dinosaurs, let's say; something outlandish.
Nothing really "out there" like that, no. It's more like what Orconian said--the story is written in a way that it feels like it could take place in almost any other fantasy setting.
The story is completely independent of any setting. In most of Troy Denning's books, he at least makes a half-hearted (and usually ill-conceived) attempt at making it seem like it takes place in the Realms, but these novels don't even offer that meager bit of consistency.
Honestly - they could be re-printed As-is for Golarion, or Greyhawk, or Eberron, or even Middle Earth, and no changes would need to be made. As far as the stories are concerned, the rest of the world doesn't even exist!
The books were bad. Badly thought out, badly written, and had no connection to FR at all. They weren't Avatar bad, or RotA bad, but they were close. I read them once and then donated the books to the library (come to think of it, the only FR books I've done that for were Troy Denning books. No wonder we call him Deathstar...)
-Not having read it, and being as that I have no inkling to do so, just what exactly is so far out there? I know it has to do with Giants, but...Is it the placement of people/places? Themes? Concepts? Story?
Placement? Per MT's quote below--he hit it perfectly. It felt so alien to me it was ridiculous.
Except that no attempt was even made to make it seem like it was on Toril...
...As far as the stories are concerned, the rest of the world doesn't even exist!
Theme, concept and story was whacked, as far as I was concerned (as I find all three to be intricately connected). I found the plot thin, the characters meaningless, and the odds they went up and overcame completely ridiculous. I remember constantly going "WTF?" all the way through the trilogy.
While I am quite surprised you had no desire to read it, it is probably the one trilogy I would say to never even bother touching.
Tavis makes Drizzt look wimpy by comaparison. He is a 'runt' Firbolg who takes on entire armies of Giants single-handedly, starting with Ogres and working his way through the series to hill Giants, frost Giants, Fire Giants, etc... until he finally battles a demi-god of Titans!
Probably one of the worst cases of 'Mary-Sueism' I've ever encountered in the Realms.
And the plot of the third book was so thin and ridulous, it made absolutely no sense, and Denning didn't even bother to offer an explanation for it (two children born into one body? :uh-huh
Then again, the second novel wasn't much better (creating silly magical devices to explain strange plot-devices). Seriously... Armor of Head-Hiding?!
If you are going to read any of them, the first was acceptable. After that, its all down hill on a slippery slope.
It's wrong, dammit.
I imagine that the result of the feedback on the whole thing is why it disappeared from 3e in the first place.
-With the universal negative reaction, I wonder why WotC rereleased the books somewhat recently?
-What is the plot?
The overasll plot is that the King of Hartsvale made a deal with the Ogres of the region to side with him in a succession war, but the deal was they would get his firstborn daughter (daughters are extremely rare, supposedly, among their line). He agrees, thinking that he'd never actually have to comply, but then it turns out he has only one child -a daughter - and now that she's become an adult (it opens with her birthday) the Ogres 'kidnap' her, and for some reason that no-one can comprehend, her father doesn't bother going after her (he's regrettably staying true to his agreement).
Turns-out the Ogres were working for the 'Twilight Spirit' (who turns out to be a major baddie from the DISTANT past), and that 'spirit' wants to restore the Giant Kingdom of Ostoria to it's former glory.
In each of the books, a group of Giants or giant-kin kidnap the Princess, and Tavis Burden - the world's mightest runt Firbolg - comes to her rescue, defeating entire armies of Giants to do so (because he is just THAT cool).
He's as strong as giant, fights as well as Drizzt, and carries a bow that puts Cattie Brie's to shame.
Not only that, but he gets a lot of help from an orphan-kid he rescued (Batman, much?), and a powerful Verbeeg Runecaster - something normally completely unheard of, but not only can this one work Runes, but he seems to be the best at it... and he has a noble streak (for a Verbeeg...)
Oh... and he draws runes on all of Tavis' Arrows making them even more uber, and also on some of his other stuff, and even whips-up an artifact in a couple of hours. Thats one potent Verbeeg!!!
I wonder why WotC rereleased the books somewhat recently?
Because some sorry sap will buy them not knowing what they are getting themselves into.
The overasll plot is that the King of Hartsvale made a deal with the Ogres of the region to side with him in a succession war, but the deal was they would get his firstborn daughter (daughters are extremely rare, supposedly, among their line). He agrees, thinking that he'd never actually have to comply, but then it turns out he has only one child -a daughter - and now that she's become an adult (it opens with her birthday) the Ogres 'kidnap' her, and for some reason that no-one can comprehend, her father doesn't bother going after her (he's regrettably staying true to his agreement).
Turns-out the Ogres were working for the 'Twilight Spirit' (who turns out to be a major baddie from the DISTANT past), and that 'spirit' wants to restore the Giant Kingdom of Ostoria to it's former glory.
In each of the books, a group of Giants or giant-kin kidnap the Princess, and Tavis Burden - the world's mightest runt Firbolg - comes to her rescue, defeating entire armies of Giants to do so (because he is just THAT cool).
He's as strong as giant, fights as well as Drizzt, and carries a bow that puts Cattie Brie's to shame.
Not only that, but he gets a lot of help from an orphan-kid he rescued (Batman, much?), and a powerful Verbeeg Runecaster - something normally completely unheard of, but not only can this one work Runes, but he seems to be the best at it... and he has a noble streak (for a Verbeeg...)
Oh... and he draws runes on all of Tavis' Arrows making them even more uber, and also on some of his other stuff, and even whips-up an artifact in a couple of hours. Thats one potent Verbeeg!!!
-Sounds awesome...No, that's a little sarcasm, but without sarcasm, it doesn't sound that bad. But, then again, I haven't read it, and have no will to do so.
-Sounds awesome...No, that's a little sarcasm, but without sarcasm, it doesn't sound that bad. But, then again, I haven't read it, and have no will to do so.
Hold up LK, I have to give MT his props:
OK, back to you....
He has it completely right on--and you would understand the sarcasm properly should you read it. A lot of it just has to do with the character aspect of things. They just get away with too much crap (as MT alluded to).
This was simply an author trying to have a big, epic trilogy because he had plenty of big people, but it didn't work because he didn't have any epic substance to what he was actually writing.
But he used the SAME EXACT PLOT in each book. It makes you wonder why this idiot of a princess keeps traveling to the far corners of her Kingdom with little more then an honor gaurd (by the third time she is kidnapped, you are rooting for the giants).
And without sounding too egotistical, my synopsis was far more entertaining then actual trilogy, which had about the same amount of character-development... spread over three novels. I just re-read the series again quite recently, and still can't remember anything significant about the princess other then she was a priestess of a Giant goddess (the humans of Ostoria seem to all worship the Giantish pantheon... another strange anomally).
The only charatcer with any significant development was Tavis, and even then he comes-up looking like a Hercules clone.
I did find the little bit we got about Firbolgs interesting... perhaps more interesting then the story itself. I love Firbolgs, so I have to give Denning props for making one the protagonist (RAS did a bang-up job with his in the Cleric Quintet as well. He also did a teeny-tiny bit with the Fire Giants (the ritualistic dancing), so putting the little bit of lore together with the Giantcraft sourcebook made the whole thing worthwhile... for me, at any rate.
The armor of head-hiding was probably the most ridiculous magic item ever.
I thought The legendary land of Gilthwit was the only 'clever' bit - everything else was predictable.
Still don't see it being worth the time though. Even MT's take on the lore aspect doesn't necessarily apply anymore.
-Eh, I went, and they didn't have it, anyway. Must be fate or something...Nothing from Troy Denning. I did see The Pirate King, but I'm not allowed to take anything out until tomorrow.
Well, what the hell does that mean, buttcake?!!
What--you can't take out library books until tomorrow or you've reneged on your promise not to read anything 4e?
And, it is fate, my man--Troy Denning sux. Perhaps the fact that The Pirate King was there is a sign.
Agreed.
Tavis makes Drizzt look wimpy by comaparison. He is a 'runt' Firbolg who takes on entire armies of Giants single-handedly, starting with Ogres and working his way through the series to hill Giants, frost Giants, Fire Giants, etc... until he finally battles a demi-god of Titans!
I adore Tavis because of his personal goodness and ethics.
I adore Tavis because of his personal goodness and ethics.
Sweet Bejebuz petting a puppy.
All I can say to that is this:
Wonderful.
Now that we know you roll over, I must ask if you fetch as well.
Well, what the hell does that mean, buttcake?!!
-That perhaps a "greater entity" is preventing me from reading the book series, for a specific reason. To save me from insanity, maybe.
What--you can't take out library books until tomorrow or you've reneged on your promise not to read anything 4e?
-My card wasn't in the "system", and I needed to wait until the next business day for it to be.
Oh, and they mention goblins at some point. That's another strong link to the campaign setting, don't you think?
Ok.
Huh! - Anyone else see the boards acting screwy @ 11:51??
I think it was only happening to you "buttcake".:P
;)
I think it was only happening to you "buttcake".:P
At 11:51 it is dark and you are blind. What could you possibly witness at that time?