Hi everyone. I have two very unrelated questions.
First. Due to the saddening announcement that their is no plans on making an official Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. (At least not this year.) I've been struggling to find information about the current state of affairs in Cormyr. One of my favorite places in all the Realms. So I really wanted to see if anyone had any current information post-spellplague era. I know that sometime I think next month the newest Brimstone Angel's Book is going to be centered in Cormyr, but I just thought I'd ask around and see if anyone knew anything else? Maybe some upcoming book/adventure that I could get more information?
My second question is about Eilistraee. Now everyone's been kind of up and arms about her not returning. I'm one of those people, but I'm also thinking about bringing that into my campaign. I may have it that the reborn Eilistraee/Chosen is being imprisoned by Lolth and/or brainwashed to become her secret weapon against the surface world. Imagine Lolth getting her hands on that kind of power? My other idea is that she is already reinstated and the campaign would be about spreading her holy word once more.
***SPOILERS FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVEN'T READ THE ASCENDANCY SERIES**
Though the books have been out for years and years I still don't want that one person that hasn't read it yet snapping at me. Now to the meat of the question though. Canonly Eilistraee died as The Masked Lady per the Ascendancy series. So if she was to come back wouldn't she come back as the Masked Lady? I'm not sure which version of the Goddess I want to bring back. I always loved the dynamic in which though they hated one another Mama Spider and her daughter always had some eerie similarities in their religions. So which Domain's should I offer people that wish to worship her? For The Masked Lady I was thinking Trickery and Knowledge. Possibly Light or Knowledge for pure Eilistraee. Any ideas would be welcomed.
I think the ML could do with Trickery and Light, she is still Eilistraee, a beacon of light and hope for her people, but leaning more to a ''the end justifies the means'' kind of approach. Eilistraee the Dark Dancer could go with Light and maybe Life: her concept is also the one of a loving mother-goddess who helps her people grow and flourish in a hostile surface world, Life could fit that.
You could also modify the Light domain, reflavoring it with moon imagery (rather than bright, blinding light) and including a few dance, song or sword-fighting themed spells (perhaps adding some freedom related ones: after all Eilistraee is the rebel who stands up to her mother's tyranny, fighting for the freedom of all drow; also her followers vehemently oppose slavers and slavery -especially in the Promenade-, and so on. I guess Freedom of Movement could be appropriate and add a bit of the dancer theme). However I don't know 5e, so I can't be helpful for mechanics.
As for whether Eilistraee will come back as the Masked Lady or the the Dark Dancer, that is entirely up to you. You can bring both E&V back and have it so that spending time as the ML has been an eye-opening experience for the Dark Maiden, one that made her understand that sometimes subtle methods may be needed to achieve her goal (opening the possibility for an alliance of sorts between brother and sister, which I think they actually established while giving birth to the ML).
Alternatively (Spoilers), the ending of LP is very loose (the author herself said that she made it so that E&V/ML could easily return), so it is entirely possible that Eilistraee didn't die (Qilué was merely an avatar at that point, the Blade had lost its soul-destroying powers before that -as we can see from Cavatina surviving it- and so on), but was actually ''severely injured'', so to speak. You could have her spending the inactive time to recover and avoiding to draw her mother's attention -maybe with a small number of followers knwing that-, and trying to re-emerge during the Sundering (ofc Lolth would try to hunt her or something).
Or you could use the idea that was -sadly- cut from the 4e Menzo sourcebook: The Masked Lady originated from Eilistraee and Vhaeraun forming an alliance, and at the end of the LP trilogy she didn't die but actually lost her divinity (which fueled the ritual that transformed her drow into brown elves). After that event the two siblings -single entities again- became archfey and -although much weakened- continued their quest to free the dark elves from Lolth's grasp. The Sundering would be the perfect situation for them to attempt to gain back their godhood.
Anyway, don't give up hope for Eilistraee returning in canon, a lot of (almost all, even minor) deities have been brought or are on their way back, to not restore two flavorful and unique characters like Eilistraee and Vhaeraun would not make any sense and would be a slap in the face on WotC's side. Also Ed said that it's highly likely that we haven't seen the last of the Dark Dancer so it is possible that we will see her return in future material (maybe one of those adventures, or a novel, or the future FRCS)
I dont have any issue with WOTC not bringing Ellistrae or Vhaerun back. Whilst I havnt read a large chunk of Realms Novels, it could be that the natural story arc for Ellistrae was over.. same with Vhaerun.
Im actually far more interested in what they are going to do with the Drow in 5e Realms. Im hoping they are going to consolidate them back to the 3e version we had than the mercenary type push to the surface 4e version we had.
Tyranthraxus wrote:
Irennan: Thank you so much! That was a lot of help actually. I wasn't aware of that info being cut out of the Menzo source book. A lot of interesting ideas that I'll have to work with. I do think I'll be sticking with Separating the Masked Lady and reworking Eilistraee and Vhaerun.
Tyranthraxus: You could say that their storyline was done yes, but ultimately I think they got rid of all the other Drow Gods and Goddesses aside from Lolth to consolidate Lolth's power. Try and lessen the number of Gods in general. I have a feeling that they're taking the Drow into what I could only describe as a "classic" direction. I recently picked up the R.A. Salvatore book Night of the Hunter that goes into some of the details about Menzo since the last we saw of it.
*****SPOILERS********
They have plans of a surface raid onto the Silver Marches, The Matron Mother of House Baenre (Top house) was given a piece of her mothers intellect and manipulation, House Do'Urden is being reborn. Among other things that ultimately bring it back to the beginning of 3rd Edition.
********END SPOILERS*********
If you ever get the change Ryranthrax totally pick up the War of the Spider Queen Series. It's a keen (even if slightly dated) Inside look into the drow, and I think it explains why ultimately some people are a little upset that Eilistraee hasn't returned. Since her clergy though warmer and more welcoming. Were a lot like Lolth's. A very unique and interesting dynamic that many people enjoyed reading and hearing about.
Thanks again for all the helpful info guys!!
SynifaeArmgo wrote:
Ill do that thanks.
I just loved what i read about the Drow in the original Homeland series with their politics and houses. It was awesome. Then each subsequent Drow book chipped away a bit at that awesome till suddenly I had drow operating out of the surface as part of mercenary groups. Just wasnt appealing.
Tyranthraxus wrote:
IMHO I can't see WOTC not bringing back Elistraee, she's a pretty popular deity all said and done.
but then again I never quite got why they made a lot of the changes they did for 4th edition. Best I can detirmine the guy making the calls didn't actually LIKE the realms
BrianCritchley wrote:
"our thinking has changed somewhat with 5th edition" heh... that's a bit of an understatement. I think WOTC is realizing 4E nearly killed the goose that laid the golden egg.
Good to know, makes me a bit more hopeful for the future Realms. Now if they could only get rid of Bruce 'Mr. Tentacles' Cordell's 
bothersome additions with 4e, I'd be happy as could be.
Tyranthraxus wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Irennan wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
From Ed:
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I have written new lore about the Dark Dancer recently, but I’m afraid how and when you’ll see it is up to Wizards of the Coast, and I can’t legally reveal more. I would not expect to see it as part of this or the next story, if that helps.
well its something to hope for then better than nothing at this point
I recall earlier discussions years ago, and the designers' intent was to push the focus back on Corellon vs. Lolth as the main drow/elf conflict. The implication was that Eilistraee and Vharuan, besides being one of many other deities, were distracting from that primary conflict. Preventing, if you will, drow being saved by Corellon's grace as opposed to Eilistraee.
Or something like that. :P
I agree, the chess board thing...Well, it was more unbelievable that other drow deities abided in the Demonweb Pits according to Faiths & Pantheons. I suppose if they lived in Lolth's lair they were more or less forced into it, although Eilistraee had more of a choice since she also lived in Arvandor.
Eilistraee and Vhaeraun however are not ''one of many other deities'', they are what makes the realmsian drow unique and different from gygaxian drow copy-pasted into the Realms. They are both Ed's original creation for his own home campaing, whom he made official when TSR asked for more drow deities. If anything, Eilistraee and Vhaeraun are iconic to the realmsian drow as much as Lolth is. They are also what gives depth of character to FR drow, while being entirely valid deities -even unreltadely to Lolth- since they both stand for very interesting ideals on their own.
The Corellon-Lolth conflict is different from the Eilistraee/Vhaeraun-Lolth one: AFAIK the former is a reflection of elves vs drow (Corellon was never about offering the drow the hope of a new life, like his daughter. He was the one who indiscriminately banished them, after all), the latter is about freedom for the drow. Also, even if they wanted to emphasize the rivalry between Corellon and Lolth, there was no need to remove E&V (why remove such popular characters that add flavor to the setting just for that?**), they should have made Corellon become more involved istead of sitting and doing nothing, with maybe Eilistraee taking his side (she doesn't seem to be ''daddy's girl'' anymore tho, with her relationship with the Seldarine being described as strained, despite their being allies) and/or becoming an exarch/demi-goddess, with her influence/power diminished. Also, per her lore, the point of Eilistraee is helping and guiding the drow in their choice of embracing a different life and redeeming themselves, not saving them by Corellon's or anyone's ''grace'', so there's no detraction there (on the contrary, she would be a perfect ally/exarch for Corellon, dedicated to the restoration of the relationship between drow and elves). Anyway, I doubt that their intent was highlighting the aformentioned rivalry, since they had Corellon keep to not giving a crap about drow even in 4e FR (and since we have been told that it actually was -as always- about Drizzt).
TBH, the chess game was totally random, I don't recall it having anything to do with living in the Pits. Lolth basically said ''yo, lets bet our lives on a chess game'' and everyone else was ok with that for some unfathomable reason, even the ones who -like Eilistraee- would have gained nothing or very little from it. But I've already posted about it in this thread.
**Not to mention that, at this point, they should have removed the Seldarine as well, because Angharrdh/Shevarash/whoever vs Lolth would have detracted from the ''main conflict''.
Opinion: From my perspective Corellon has been open to dark elves coming back to the fold, however his very nature makes him a distant and nearly unapproachable choice. And I've read at various points that Eilistraee chose voluntary exile despite not being aware of her role in Lolth's plans at the time,
"Eilistraee chose banishment from Arvandor (and the Seldarine) along with her mother and brother, foreseeing a time when she would be needed to balance their evil." (Demihuman Deities)
How does she balance their evil? By providing a path away from the darkness back towards moonlight/starlight (more or less). She is Corellon's daughter, and while it hasn't been written elsewhere I wouldn't be surprised if there was an implicent understanding of her eventual role in bringing non-evil dark elves back into the fold of the Seldarine. Gods tend to be forward thinking, so just as she forsaw her own role so did he. In short, Eilistraee was meant to be a path away from the darkness that is Lolth because she is one of them. She's shared their exile and their desire for a better life. (Vhaeraun has his own version, which not quite the same of course, nonetheless he is also an alternative.)
Opinion: Also, the bit about removing the Seldarine is a bit of a straw man argument. (The Seldarine have been around since Deities & Demigods, not patched together after the fact.) The aim of WotC designers--as I could see, and from what they've posted--was not just to trim the pantheons but bring the focus back to more central conflicts. They saw Eilistraee, etc., as detracting from the broader conflict. I think it was a little flawed, but then again it was also a good excuse to force people's perceptions back towards the idea of Lolth being the drow goddess. At this point I'm happier imagining Vhaeraun and Eilistraee more as part of a shadowy Feywild than part of an official drow 'pantheon'. To me it never really felt like one, more like Lolth vs. the Alternatives. I don't know of many spiders that would share their web with rivals, it's more eat or be eaten.
Sometimes the novels tell an interesting story, sometimes in the process however they can fudge things up.
On another tangent, I almost wonder why Shar and Lolth haven't come into conflict. Perhaps because that would detract from the Shar vs. Selune/Mystra dynamic? Hmm.
Corellon has been open to dark elves getting back into the fold, but no god actually turns away followers (except maybe extraordinary cases). He (and the Seldarine as well) doesn't put any effort in showing this openess, he doesn't even significantly support his daughter's followers through his agents/priests. The fact that many elves believe that Eilistraee is something made up by lolthites, while the Seldarine does nothing about that is quite telling. Demihuman Deities does indeed describe the relationship between Eilistraee and the Seldarine as strained at best, in reflection of this separation between elves and drow. This is also why Corellon vs Lolth is different from Eilistraee/Vhaeraun vs Lolth.
"Eilistraee chose banishment from Arvandor (and the Seldarine) along with her mother and brother, foreseeing a time when she would be needed to balance their evil." (Demihuman Deities)
How does she balance their evil? By providing a path away from the darkness back towards moonlight/starlight (more or less). She is Corellon's daughter, and while it hasn't been written elsewhere I wouldn't be surprised if there was an implicent understanding of her eventual role in bringing non-evil dark elves back into the fold of the Seldarine. Gods tend to be forward thinking, so just as she forsaw her own role so did he. In short, Eilistraee was meant to be a path away from the darkness that is Lolth because she is one of them. She's shared their exile and their desire for a better life. (Vhaeraun has his own version, which not quite the same of course, nonetheless he is also an alternative.)
A little more news, with Ed's upcoming novel: Spellstorm (thanks to BenN over the CK forums for sharing those)
SPOILERS -well, just a little, since this is just a side note and not relevant to the story-
So, in the novel there's this passage -one of Elminster's thoughts about Mystra's current manifestation-:
[...]Twas no easy thing, being the goddess of magic. A different deity than the rest, in a world so steeped in the Art, a divinity that had to care more for mortals, or embrace utter tyranny. And at the same time share the Weave - the Weave that was Mystra, as well as being so much more - with other deities, or what remained of them, like Eilistraee[...]
This definitely means that Eilistraee is currently alive -even if perhaps weakened (assuming that the ''what remains of them'' refers to her), since the new Mystra has to share the Weave with her. I've made some questions to Ed in his scroll, I will update this thread once I get answers.
It's also telling that Ed went out of his way to mention Eilistraee in a story that has nothing to do with her, it's just like he's trying to tell people that Eilistraee lives
He is also informing people about the fact that Mystra has had to share the Weave with other deities for a very long time.
Yes, but that is one of the main points of the reflection, not an ''incidental'' implication. Also
Ed has been known to throw a bone out to people whenever he can in his novels (and to indrectly reference other game designers as a form of a tip of the hat), so I don't for a second think the mention of Elistraee is incidental.
Note too that Mystra's sharing of the Weave is not strictly limited to having other caretakers amongst the gods, it's sharing because she shares it. The most powerful monks in Candlekeep, for example, all control the Weave in limited ways in and around that fortress (as was revealed in the novel "The Herald"). That book also talks about the power of old deities like Jergal, and their influence/knowledge of the Weave/interactions with it.
There's so much more about the Realms and the Weave that we don't know. Glad to see that it's in 5E that more secrets and mysteries are being revealed.
Oh I definitely know that his naming Eilistraee is not incidental, I meant incidental for Elminster's line of thought (which makes it even more intentional for Ed). Anway (I guess that we can leave spoilers out), what I was wondering about is whether he has specifically named Eilistraee -and only her- just to imply that she is currently alive, or also because she has something that somehow links her to the Weave (and in way unique enough to make her deserve to be specifically mentioned as an example in such a context. Idk, perhaps her old alliance with Mystra, perhaps her being the daughter of a god of magic, Idk).
And yes, I'm all for knowing more about the Weave, I'm a sucker for knowing the mechanical details of how magical systems and nature work in fantasy worlds.
Ed has answered to my questions:
1)Does that thought (the one about Mystra sharing the Weave with Eilistraee) refer to the ''present'' time? Yes, that refers to the present time.
2)Are Eilistraee and Vhaeraun separated again? Yes, separate again.
3)Did she manage to survive to the events in LP like some speculated (in a fashion similar to how Mystra did, for example) and emerge again after the Sundering (or has the Sundering simply brought her back)? Mortals know only of a reappearance, post-Sundering; details to be revealed, perhaps, in the fullness of time (this now 100% confirms that Eilistraee is alive in the present time).
4)Also, in what condition is Eilistraee now, and what are she and her followers doing (and -since I'd like to edit the FR wiki page about her- is she now a demipower, or retained her status of lesser power)? Current condition? Unknown to mortals (including power level/ranking); sorry.
5)Finally, where is Qilué's soul currently (since we know that the Cescent Blade couldn't destroy souls anymore, given that Cavatina survived it).
As for the soul you mention: also known. My bet would be on "a voice in the Weave" (there may or may not be more on this status, if not that particular soul, in future fiction, but it's too early to say for certain).