Me and my group began playing D&D in 4e, though I have been reading the books since I was young, and before the first we ever played, I read Faiths and Pantheons. This was a mistake.
I was interested in playing in the 4e Realms after my first successful homebrew campaign, so we made the jump.
Having read the Campaign Setting backwards and forwards, I have our story line down, but what's with the deity genocide?
Having read Faiths and Pantheons, it was crammed full of cool deities like I had never experienced in any other game. I was really looking forward to using them, only to find out they have mostly perished in 4e.
This brings me to my question. Would you, have you, or would anyone else frown upon the use of dead deities such as Mask or Velsharoon in 4e FR?
I mean, the only removed them to simplify the pantheons anyhow. My group doesn't need more simple pantheons, we were all bummed to see so many of them no longer exist.
I know, I know, at the core of it, this is at the discretion of the DM, but, I don't like continuity flaws, which this would create, wouldn't it?
It feels like they were removed for a metagame conceptof making things more simple, is their an lore abiding way to keep them alive or put them back in, besides, 'I'm DM, so, Shaboosh, it never happened!'
Advice, anybody?
No I would not frown on it, its my realms; I say goes
your realms, you say goes.
its all legal.
If deity is not dead in your game etc....
and some of them became arch fey and primal spirits and or primordials.
but some of us do just use the 3.x deties.... well of course we don't like said deityy either.
I have entire towns and villages that are my own creation. Deities don't interact at all with PCs or NPCs like they do in the novels, and I use the old Mystryl, Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul. I didn't incorporate Mystra1, wild magic, or shadow weave. Karsus failed and caused a catastrophe long ago, but he neither became a "millisecond god" nor did Mystryl re-create herself. Shadow magic exists, but it draws from the plane of shadow rather than the Weave. Shar is the goddess of night, darkness, loss, and secrets, but isn't an entropy-promoting nihilist. And there isn't a Lord Ao.
Midnight (aka Mystra2), Cyric, Kelemvor, Finder, and other new deities never happened/existed, as the Time of Troubles never happened. Netheril-Shade never returned to Faerun for us. We also didn't have a spellplague, there are no floaty earthmotes, and Abeir doesn't exist. The elves did not return from Evermeet. Dragonborn do exist, but they are extremely rare and as they were originally designed: loyal humans (and others) transformed by Bahamut. I could go on and on...
Definitely modify it as you see fit!
Do you or would you say it's legit to use dead deities in 4e FR?
You can do whatever you want. Unless it's Mystra. If you use Mystra then you should burned alive. Other than that, go for it! ;)
even got some feats and an Epic Destiny! And its written by our very own gomeztoo! Congrats man! Very good read, I would of prerfered it to be more Realms related, but still interesting stuff, and much of it would fit right in the Realms!
I was happy I could include a lot of (Core) lore in it.
It should be easy to adapt the epic Destiny or feats for Realms deities.
Gomez
With the way faith works in the Realms, if these dead gods even have a handfull of worshipers still alive, then are they truely dead?
My girlfriend actually brought up this point last night. Would a skilled thief still not venerate Mask? How would the thief even know if he had died?
She pointed out if for example, a thief, had worshipped Mask, like his father before hime and so on and so forth, wouldn't he still say a little prayer to him before snatching a nobles coin purse?
We thought on it last night after looking over some replies, and I decided I will use them. If the Spellplague or the last 100 years killed them off, I will say they where weakened, however severly, by the same event.
Most of the deities I wish to keep where not Greater anyhow.
This allows me to use Velsharoon for my evil necromancers, use Mask for my thieves that are gonna hijack all the residuum my party's Wizard just got his grubby little fingers on.
Thanks everyone! :D
I just checked the D&D insider offerings for today, and theres an interesting article on the very subject of dead gods, www.wizards.com/dnd/downloads/dragon/390...
even got some feats and an Epic Destiny! And its written by our very own gomeztoo! Congrats man! Very good read, I would of rerfered it to be more Realms related, but still interesting stuff, and much of it would fit right in the Realms!
I wish it wasn't Insider only....
Also you can transfer some of the 'core' deities across - The Raven Queen could be an exarch of Auril or Shar for example..
Why, for the love of all that's holy and unholy, do people keep wanting the Raven Bimbo in the Realms? She is not an exciting deity. She is not an original deity. She doesn't do anything that isn't already covered by gods that suck less.
Why, for the love of all that's holy and unholy, do people keep wanting the Raven Bimbo in the Realms? She is not an exciting deity. She is not an original deity. She doesn't do anything that isn't already covered by gods that suck less.
Because people actually do like having a lot of deities, contrary to designers' beliefs?
I'm all for a lot of deities, but there's no need to port the crappiest deity ever conceived for D&D(OK, Zarus was pretty bad, so was that random LN elven god) into FR where she has no place and doesn't belong. There's plenty of actual Realms gods that are dead or MIA to be brought back.
Which is actually on topic, incidentally, since this is a thread on dead deities and porting the Raven Queen has nothing at all to do with it.
Why, for the love of all that's holy and unholy, do people keep wanting the Raven Bimbo in the Realms? She is not an exciting deity. She is not an original deity. She doesn't do anything that isn't already covered by gods that suck less.
Because goth emo chicks are hawt.
Why, for the love of all that's holy and unholy, do people keep wanting the Raven Bimbo in the Realms? She is not an exciting deity. She is not an original deity. She doesn't do anything that isn't already covered by gods that suck less.
Because goth emo chicks are hawt.
no they are not.
Shar is emo, and she is a @#Q$@#$@#%$ two bit #%$#%$ #$#$#$ #$#$#%$% bimbo with no brains
Shar is emo, and she is a *snippety-snip* bimbo with no brains
Those are the best bimbo's...
OT, one thing that you risk with calling upon dead gods is, of course, other gods getting annoyed. Nothing says 'that god is dead, I took its portfolio, worship me', than being struck by lightning on a cloudless day.
Gomez
Shar is emo, and she is a *snippety-snip* bimbo with no brains
Those are the best bimbo's...
OT, one thing that you risk with calling upon dead gods is, of course, other gods getting annoyed. Nothing says 'that god is dead, I took its portfolio, worship me', than being struck by lightning on a cloudless day.
Gomez
That is possible, most of the gods though seemed ok with the idea of worshippers calling them by the name of dead gods, well Cyric had a problem with it, but other than that I dont think the gods would mind, I mean they would still get power from it wouldnt they? Some other gods may grant spells or other abilities, Tiamat in particular has a habit of taking on the guise of other deities. She was even Entropy for awhile.
which gods of your article originally resemble FR gods then?
For instance, I always thought it interesting that - for a time, at least - nobody knew whether Leira was really dead or not. I knew that it was the kind of 'death' that I wanted to include, even though Laeris (and his death) is quite different in many other respects. I originally wanted to include Eilistraee. That wasn't posisble, but I used the idea of a goddess of redemption for Nusemnee, though again, she is quite different.
Gomez
Also, in the paragon 4e game I play in, one of the PCs in the party is a worshipper of Mystra (and he still has powers, despite her being dead, and he is actively seeking to restore her), while my character makes occasional booty calls to a high servant of the now-dead Mask who dwells in a tower in the Shadowfell filled with the spirits of long-dead thieves of legend. Said "chosen" of Mask has an uber-powerful shadow cloak thingy that my character hopes to steal one of these days.
So yeah--the only reason not to use dead deities in your game is if you happen not to want to.
Cheers
killing her off ruinred the realms along with Helm
says you
killing her off ruinred the realms along with Helm
Let's not venture down this road YET AGAIN, shall we?
As I see it, use the deities as you want, kill them if you want, revive them if you want. I do agree that mortal characters should be the focus of the setting, not gods, and I'm glad that that--at least--is happening these days.
Cheers
P.S. And anyway, for you Mystra/Helm fans out there: Are people not paying attention to all the stories about dealing with their absence . . . and possibly seeking to correct it? Srsly? People haven't noticed?
Wow.
and shadowbane????
or downshadow???
Ive read two of tehm,
. . . and possibly seeking to correct it?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..........................!!!!!!
. . . and possibly seeking to correct it?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..........................!!!!!!
Oh calm down, friend! No one said anything about soon. Or even IF.
Cheers
. . . and possibly seeking to correct it?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..........................!!!!!!
Oh calm down, friend! No one said anything about soon. Or even IF.
Cheers
Whew! ... err, maybe. Wait. Okay, now I'm paranoid. THANKS!
Is that the Chronomancer behind you
Pah, Mystra. Pah, Helm. Pah, Eilistraee. Someone needs to do something to bring Vhaeraun out of his lurking and have him reclaim his rightful place as the coolest evil god in Toril.
It's the mask, isn't it? Masks always up-rate one's cool factor.
Even for gods, heh!
Mask was cool, I also liked Helm and Mystra. But most of all I miss Lathander the Morninglord. The name and title sounded good. He was Neutral Good, and his new form of the Sun God and being Lawful Good isn't really interesting. :/
I preferred him as he was.