So I was scouring the FRCG for information on where the dead go and couldn't find anything. I know they go to shadowfell in core DnD but i'm suspecting that's not the case in FR. I know that first they are judged by Kelemvor in his domain but the book never elaborates on what happens further on. There is a hint saying that his domain has a strong connection with the shadowfell. And then the book does mention that Kelemvor does judge the faithless but never mentions the wall of the faithless. Further insight into this topic would be greatly appreciated.
i always just thought that Kelemvor's realm hadn't changed much, placement in the astral aside. souls go to the city of the dead, get judged, get sent to wherever.
However, I also seem to recall Rich Baker mentioning in the Ask-the-Designer thread that the Wall is still around, but that Kelemvor, with another century under his belt, might not be so quick to condemn souls to such a fate.
I recall reading in one of the newer 4E novels about a character who briefly worried in one scene about ending up in the Wall.
The Resurrection Agent in Realms of the Dead.
IIRC that story took place a few decades before the Year of the Ageless One.
Gomez
I recall reading in one of the newer 4E novels about a character who briefly worried in one scene about ending up in the Wall.
The Resurrection Agent in Realms of the Dead.
IIRC that story took place a few decades before the Year of the Ageless One.
Gomez
Ah, thanks for reminding me. I just checked and it takes place in 1463 DR, the Year of the Reborn Hero. In fact, now that I remember, that story actually does seem to confirm the continued existence of the Wall, since
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the main character, the Harlot, who wonders about ending up in the Wall, has died and seen Kelemvor's City more than once.
So what happens to the souls that do follow deities? Do they go to the shadowfell now? Or where? Not too familiar with previous FR editions
The souls that are devoted to certain deities arrive in the Fugue Plane, ruled by Kelemvor and Jergal, and are eventually collected by servants of those deities, who are instantly recognized by the souls. For instance, Malar's messenger might be some great, feral beast, or Bahamut's might be a metallic dragon. Again, if I recall correctly, The Resurrection Agent made some brief mention of this, for the main character
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remembered watching as the other dead souls around her were beckoned by representatives of their gods while she (being godless) looked on.
are they condemned to the Wall of the Faithless? This might be an interesting twist--a tenet of Cyric's faith is that the Wall will come tumbling down when Cyric returns, and the dead in the wall will rule as kings for eternity...
thoughts?
well, then what happens to Cyric's faithful now? they can't enter his plane.
are they condemned to the Wall of the Faithless? This might be an interesting twist--a tenet of Cyric's faith is that the Wall will come tumbling down when Cyric returns, and the dead in the wall will rule as kings for eternity...
thoughts?
That's one of the things I've been trying to wrap my head around - the details regarding Cyric's status. He can supposedly still communicate with his priests, so the house arrest itself doesn't seem to be much of a preventative measure in terms of keeping Cyric away from his followers (to me at least). However, I imagine that since the move to keep Cyric confined in the Supreme Throne was deemed appropriate by Ao (since it was in the nature of those three gods to do so), then it would also be acceptable to deny Cyric of the souls of his faithful, since the other gods can effectively keep watch over the outside of the plane, even if they can't stop Cyric from spreading message from the inside, and the denial of loyal souls is an extension of that punishment. As Lord of the Dead, Kelemvor may technically be able to suspend the transfer of souls to the realm of Cyric on the grounds that it is in his nature to maintain order in all things pertaining to the afterlife and that by allowing Cyric to continue collecting his faithful, he would be violating the punishment, with which he agrees.
Thus, Kelemvor would assume control of the souls, and would probably do one of two things - contain them in one "holding cell" of sorts, where the souls would wait until their lord's incarceration expires, or judge them as he would those who come to him with no master. If Kelemvor decides to do the latter, I expect they would likely end up in the Wall. If the former, I could see Kelemvor keeping them in a ghetto of sorts within the City, isolating the Cyricists from those who truly deserve an eternity in his home. Interestingly enough, I could see these souls becoming the pick of the litter for the devils, assuming their pact with Kelemvor still stands even after the ascension of Asmodeus. I imagine many of the Cyricists, faced with such a situation, would be quick to sign themselves away to the inhabitants of Baator, if it meant escaping Kelemvor.
18DELTA(
THAT DONT SERVE CYRIC)__
I must add the clause that some souls do leave an echo of their souls on the shadowplane on their way towards the Fugue plane of Kelemvor. These become the ghosts and other incorporeal undead that can haunt their place of death just beyond the border of the shadowplane and the natural world. Some scholars even think if these echo-ghosts are particularly grieved their actual souls are stuck in the shadowplane untill their particular regret is corrected in the natural world. If you have been resurrected before this can lead to strange situations such as meeting ones own ghost(!).
My hunch is that the Wall of the Faithless (if its still in use) would have seen a significant reduction in size. The realms have been shaken (some say sundered) twice by the actions of the gods within the 14th century. Few people would doubt their existance in the 15th century realms as the actions of Shar and Cyric were felt not just over whole Toril but in the rest of the multiverse aswell. Typical common respect for them might have wavered though, and this might be the reason why only those with strong faith in a patrongod get to enter the gods astral domains.
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So regarding Cyrics faithfull, the Supreme Throne consists out of little more than his castle towers and ruins on a windswept plains. Cyrics astral agents are not shackled to his plane so they could still actively collect his petitioners from the Fugue. Only when his divine servants are incarcerated or removed would Cyric suffer from divine atrophiation. The increase of Cyrics followers on Toril is further evidence that his megalomanic dogma still works to increase his influence on Torils astral domains and its only a matter of time till a powerfull faithfull of Cyric will sunder the bonds that fetter the SUPREME LORD...
(ahum)
Got a bit carried away there.
Typical common respect for them might have wavered though, and this might be the reason why only those with strong faith in a patron god get to enter the gods astral domains.
I thought this too, at first, but the novels have given me pause as to whether entrance into the divine realms is actually less common than it was a century ago.
In particular, The Resurrection Agent, from Realms of the Dead
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features an assassin without a patron deity (and who doesn't seem to consider the gods in general), who dies a number of times before finally perishing in a way that seems "final" and entering Selune's moonlit realm.
Again, this is where the lack of details concerning Cyric's punishment gives me pause. If Cyric's astral servants can still travel the planes, what's to stop him from sending them out to contact possible allies, perhaps outside the Astral Sea?
Expecting logic from the FR deities when it comes to Cyric is an impossible task. They probably stuck him in his prison with a button saying "End universe" knowing them.
he's the only entity in the Supreme Throne, nothing gets in, nothing gets out.
the only connection he has to his followers is the ability to grant spells. that's just my take on it.
In fact, now that I remember, that story actually does seem to confirm the continued existence of the Wall, sinceShowthe main character, the Harlot, who wonders about ending up in the Wall, has died and seen Kelemvor's City more than once.