Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ragitsu Jun 17, 2009 14:52:55	Are there any believable ways in which a devoted priest of the god of battles could become a true pacifist?
#2 lord_karsus Jun 17, 2009 15:54:39	-He/she had a sit-down beneath a bodhi tree, and realized that, without peace, war, battle, and conflict is meaningless, and that peace needs to exist for all of those aforementioned things to be relevant. As such, he/she is simply doing the duty of Tempus, ensuring that peace exists, such that war, battle and conflict all have meaning, when they do invariably happen.
#3 Therise Jun 17, 2009 21:56:12	The very existence of Tempus, and one might argue the core importance of Tempus, is dependent on his ultimate goal of peace. In the primordial fight between Selune and Shar, there were many powerful warmongering proto-deities. Tempus ascended after slaying and absorbing the power of these proto-deities of war (think Highlander, but with Faerun deities of war), becoming the sole deity of War in the "pantheon"... so to speak, and with the exception of Garagos whom he left alive. As such, the unending conflict stopped, and Tempus gave it parameters and limits. Limiting war to "when it is necessary, and for solid reasons" removes the primordial "let's have a bloodbath until everything is dead" (or perhaps only one victor, Shar or Selune). Tempus has commanded all of his followers, good and evil alike, to never harm the goddess Eldath or her followers. That's very telling of his character. And saving Garagos? Many scholars in the Realms think this has to do with Tempus' strong distaste for meaningless conflict. Garagos can represent the viciousness and slaughter often inherent to war, so he left him alive in order to do that rather than absorb those characteristics (i.e. portfolio) into himself. Not to mention... Tempus priests have a certain formality / politeness in their rituals. Think "Tempus thanks you... and I thank Tempus." which is often used. Followers of Tempus respect strength and purpose, tactics and "rules of war," and one might say the highest form of service is a quickly won war that uses sharp tactics and is fought for solid reasons. War is inevitable, but when necessary they fight for peace. Therefore, the heart of many followers of Tempus is a peace-seeking one. To become a true pacifict, though, in the sense that one would be akin to certain Buddhist-style pacificts... that could be seen in a final evolution toward faith in Eldath, the goddess of peace. But remember that there are many types of pacifists in our world who would support violence in emergency situations requiring self-defense, and many who oppose violence unless the cause is "justified" by moral codes. Complex? Yes. Doable? Hard in the Realms, given that combat is the major method of gaining xp. ;)
#4 Kno Jun 20, 2009 16:50:25	PTSD?
#5 SmartPaladin Jun 23, 2009 3:30:53	-He/she had a sit-down beneath a bodhi tree, and realized that, without peace, war, battle, and conflict is meaningless, and that peace needs to exist for all of those aforementioned things to be relevant. As such, he/she is simply doing the duty of Tempus, ensuring that peace exists, such that war, battle and conflict all have meaning, when they do invariably happen. Great, now I wanna roll up a Fighter-Warlord/Warlord-Fighter, and name him Uesugi Kenshin. "Great Bishamonten, God of War..." P.S.: Hello again everyone.
#6 suin_bahhar_02 Jun 23, 2009 8:39:49	Excellent answer there, Therise. Well said. It goes along the route of a priest of Tempus that emphasizes the protection and chaos portfolios within the clergy. PTSD? Aye, I believe a priest of Tempus having a Post Traumatic Stress Disorder could work. Shock induced my brutal magic use can result in fearfull (shellshocked) soldiers. Have the cleric pay a price for his faith and experience in war by experiencing a traumatic war crime in the field of battle. Perhaps he loses favor of his diety and clergy by accidentally using craven tactics and the atonement he has to follow is an oath of peace. The clergies sentance of denying glory to the cleric untill he has seen the deeper philosophies of war forces the outcast cleric to skirt the battlefields, never participating but observing. The regional circumstances can also effect the motives of a warmongering clergy. Shake the Tempus follower's standard view of the glory of battle by having the cleric be in a situation where battle is certain failure. Through peaceful diplomacy the war could be prevented. The clergy of Tempus of that nation at that time would devote all its energy to improving their would be defences for the eventual future battle that could prove the savior of all they want to protect. In this time they hone their skills and knowledge of battle, perhaps even producing peaceful scibe like philosphers ala Sun Tzu, who prefer to dote on the theories of battle more than they devote to actual warfare.
#7 Ragitsu Jun 24, 2009 0:49:44	Even a pacifist can contribute to war???
#8 suin_bahhar_02 Jun 24, 2009 8:04:40	Certainly. Depends on the degree of aid thats percieved given by the pacifist. A practical pacifist has to in most given cases. It's a question of wether a pacifist can be militaristic, and I think that's possible. A nations citizan population can have pacifist among them, but they still support the government and its armies by paying taxes.
#9 lord_karsus Jun 24, 2009 11:44:28	Great, now I wanna roll up a Fighter-Warlord/Warlord-Fighter, and name him Uesugi Kenshin. "Great Bishamonten, God of War..." P.S.: Hello again everyone. -I don't get the reference, but okay. :P Even a pacifist can contribute to war??? -Sure, in lots of ways. Here's an obscure way: The Dalai Lama is a pacifist. He is also the spiritual, and temporal leader of Tibet, which was unlawfully invaded by China, yada, yada, yada. Though he doesn't tell the Tibetan people to rise up and revolt against China, and even tells them to obey China, having accepted that there is a 0% chance that China ever gives Tibet it's sovereignty back (citing factually incorrect and doctored historical evidence to claim that it never had sovereignty to begin with!), there are obviously some who are disenfranchised enough to protest, and do so violently (see the recent Olympics, for example). Theoretically, as seems to be the case perhaps in Iran right now, protests that are passionate enough, and responses that are tyrannical enough can spark theoretical conflict and war. In a possible case with Tibet, the Dalai Lama, though stressing people to stop, would be used as a figurehead to promote independence against China by those fighting for Tibet. So, the pacifist would be unintentionally contributing to war by his mere presence.
#10 SmartPaladin Jun 24, 2009 20:14:24	-I don't get the reference, but okay. :P Uesugi Kenshin. The line was a quote from the Samurai Warriors/Warriors Orochi games.
#11 lord_karsus Jun 24, 2009 21:28:47	-My Japanese history is woefully incomplete, I guess. :embarrass
#12 SmartPaladin Jun 24, 2009 22:32:00	It's alright, LK. I simply have a great respect for not only Uesugi Kenshin, but for Takeda Shingen. Both are great tactical warriors, and have had some of the greatest battles ever fought IMHO. To even further show what kind of men they were, both Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin were known to send eachother gifts.