In Forgotten Realms the eladrin are what once were the sun and moon elfs. The elf is what once were the wild and wood elf.
So in the Realms setting does that mean a eladrin/human pairing also yields a half elf?
As Eladrin and Elf's (as opposed to Elves, which I consider to be an in-world title that contains both the Eladrin and Elf mechanical descriptors) both have the same origin (Fey) I would have a hard time seeing why you couldn't have half-Eladrin... especially considering that in the setting you already have Half-Elves who have an Eladrin race in their history (Arilyn I am looking at you).
Who knows what effect the Spellplague had, maybe the decreasing planar distance between the Feywild and Faerun lead to the Half-Elves being forced one way or the other, towards their human or Eladrin parentage, maybe they were given the Tolkienian choice, maybe the were immolated on the spot by an influx of planar magic. I really do wish I knew.
Ok, in 4th edition the Players Handbook states that a half elf is the offspring of a human an elf.
In Forgotten Realms the eladrin are what once were the sun and moon elfs. The elf is what once were the wild and wood elf.
So in the Realms setting does that mean a eladrin/human pairing also yields a half elf?
In 4E, an Eladrin is still under the broad category of "elf", so yes. There are only some minor differences between eladrin and wild/wood elves. In 4E, there might be cosmetic differences (hair, skin, eye color) between eladrin/human and wood-elf/human half elves, but nothing more than that.
In 4E, an Eladrin is still under the broad category of "elf", so yes. There are only some minor differences between eladrin and wild/wood elves. In 4E, there might be cosmetic differences (hair, skin, eye color) between eladrin/human and wood-elf/human half elves, but nothing more than that.
Except that you seem to be conflating the flavour name Elf (relating to all the Elven subraces gold, moon, sylvan, lythari etc) with the mechanical concepts (such as in the PHB) of Eladrin and Elf. This is one reason I do wish that there had been a qualifier to the Racial descriptor "Elf" in the PHB.
Are the children of Eladrin/Human, Elf/Human pairings both going to be considered Half-Elves in terms of the overriding flavour label? I have no doubt about it. A half Moon-Elf is going to be as much an Elf, in flavour terms, as a half Green-Elf. Now, are the mechanical racial characterisitics, in 4E of a Half-Eladrin and Half-Elf going to be identical? On that one I really wouldn't be so certain.
If you have a ref to canonical source for a "modern" Eladrin-Half-Elf then I would love to read more about it, because so far I have yet to see it specified either way.
(I knew we'd talked about this before, here is an earlier thread on the subject)
In 4E, an Eladrin is still under the broad category of "elf", so yes. There are only some minor differences between eladrin and wild/wood elves. In 4E, there might be cosmetic differences (hair, skin, eye color) between eladrin/human and wood-elf/human half elves, but nothing more than that.
Except that you seem to be conflating the flavour name Elf (relating to all the Elven subraces gold, moon, sylvan, lythari etc) with the mechanical concepts (such as in the PHB) of Eladrin and Elf. This is one reason I do wish that there had been a qualifier to the Racial descriptor "Elf" in the PHB.
Are the children of Eladrin/Human, Elf/Human pairings both going to be considered Half-Elves in terms of the overriding flavour label? I have no doubt about it. A half Moon-Elf is going to be as much an Elf, in flavour terms, as a half Green-Elf. Now, are the mechanical racial characterisitics, in 4E of a Half-Eladrin and Half-Elf going to be identical? On that one I really wouldn't be so certain.
If you have a ref to canonical source for a "modern" Eladrin-Half-Elf then I would love to read more about it, because so far I have yet to see it specified either way.
(I knew we'd talked about this before, here is an earlier thread on the subject)
I'm not conflating anything. Right now, as it stands, there are no mechanical differences between different parentages of half-elves. They're all the same mechanically.
This may change in the future, but honestly it wouldn't make much sense to make separate half-sub-races. Honestly, what would they get? Half of a fey step? What would that even look like?
You can, of course, put whatever flavor/fluff you want to this, but there's no mechanical difference right now and it's unlikely that there ever will be.
I'm not conflating anything. Right now, as it stands, there are no mechanical differences between different parentages of half-elves. They're all the same mechanically.
Yup, right now there is indeed no Half-Eladrin racial option. Does that mean that there shouldn't be?
This may change in the future, but honestly it wouldn't make much sense to make separate half-sub-races. Honestly, what would they get? Half of a fey step? What would that even look like?
I would probably go with one of Erik's suggestions in this thread over at CK. Personally I favour the idea that they should reflect their parentage to some degree. Whether that is in partial feat access, some kind of modified power (yes, even fey step) or something entirely new I am not sure. But if the designers are going to make a point of mechanically sundering the Elven subraces then I do wish they would follow it through.
You can, of course, put whatever flavor/fluff you want to this, but there's no mechanical difference right now and it's unlikely that there ever will be.
Hope springs eternal.
Yup, right now there is indeed no Half-Eladrin racial option. Does that mean that there shouldn't be?
I would probably go with one of Erik's suggestions in this thread over at CK. Personally I favour the idea that they should reflect their parentage to some degree. Whether that is in partial feat access, some kind of modified power (yes, even fey step) or something entirely new I am not sure. But if the designers are going to make a point of mechanically sundering the Elven subraces then I do wish they would follow it through.
I disagree. This argument is similar to the idea of "half-vampires" that get all the benefits of vampires but none of the disadvantages of undeath and vampirism. You're essentially asking for all the benefits of humanity and all the benefits of elves/eladrin, and none of the disadvantages of either race.
I disagree. This argument is similar to the idea of "half-vampires" that get all the benefits of vampires but none of the disadvantages of undeath and vampirism. You're essentially asking for all the benefits of humanity and all the benefits of elves/eladrin, and none of the disadvantages of either race.
No. It isn't. All I have specified is that I would like to see the parentage of a Half-Eladrin expressed "to some degree". I suggested partial feat access, a modified power or something entirely new. I barely touched on how I would construct the racial description, making a judgement about exactly what I am asking for is a little premature, don't you think?
If I were to construct such a description, and I doubt I have the mechanical aptitude to do so, do I really strike you as someone who would set out to intentionally create one on such an unbalanced and unfair basis? What I would like to see is official support for this racial origin. The first and last part of my last post at least implied as much.
I disagree. This argument is similar to the idea of "half-vampires" that get all the benefits of vampires but none of the disadvantages of undeath and vampirism. You're essentially asking for all the benefits of humanity and all the benefits of elves/eladrin, and none of the disadvantages of either race.
No. It isn't. All I have specified is that I would like to see the parentage of a Half-Eladrin expressed "to some degree". I suggested partial feat access, a modified power or something entirely new. I barely touched on how I would construct the racial description, making a judgement about exactly what I am asking for is a little premature, don't you think?
If I were to construct such a description, and I doubt I have the mechanical aptitude to do so, do I really strike you as someone who would set out to intentionally create one on such an unbalanced and unfair basis? What I would like to see is official support for this racial origin. The first and last part of my last post at least implied as much.
*sigh*
I think it was said once before that a human+ eladrin= half elf....
dont know who said it, but you couls send it in to that questions thing that appears on the dnd homepage
Im still dissappointed that we dont have any "official" Star Elf support
or the new dark elf
though that could just be the dusk elves...
Access to eladrin or drow feats instead of elf feats would do most of the work.
The only real issue is that as it stands mechanically, if you have an eladrin and a human who love each other . . . then their offspring will mechanically be a half-elf who (for some reason) has access to elf-specific feats. My explanation is that their blood is diluted (like the process that formed elves in the first place) or, if you want to change it up, do as Dr. BW suggests and give them access to eladrin feats instead of elf feats. This is particularly appropriate if the character was raised among his eladrin parent's people.
Same deal with a half-drow.
A lot of the problem here is flavor, and that isn't something that you can do with just mechanics. Do it however it makes sense in your game.
(Note: My suggestions are all tentative, pending an actual half-eladrin DDI article. I'd like to see a "half-races" article, actually! There's an elf/dwarf begging to be played.)
Cheers
Seriously, though I want to play a half drow inspired by the relations between (I think) Elaine Cunningham's drow and rashemen characters.
Avenger....Half-Drow Avenger...:P
We've already linked to my thoughts on the subject. I think that the question is mostly a mechanical one, and seeing as the half-elf, eladrin, and elf don't share a whole lot in common mechanically, I don't think it's that big a deal.
The only real issue is that as it stands mechanically, if you have an eladrin and a human who love each other . . . then their offspring will mechanically be a half-elf who (for some reason) has access to elf-specific feats. My explanation is that their blood is diluted (like the process that formed elves in the first place) or, if you want to change it up, do as Dr. BW suggests and give them access to eladrin feats instead of elf feats. This is particularly appropriate if the character was raised among his eladrin parent's people.
Same deal with a half-drow.
A lot of the problem here is flavor, and that isn't something that you can do with just mechanics. Do it however it makes sense in your game.
(Note: My suggestions are all tentative, pending an actual half-eladrin DDI article. I'd like to see a "half-races" article, actually! There's an elf/dwarf begging to be played.)
Cheers
It would be nice if they made the new character builder customizable like the previous one. I hate it when WoTC takes away things... via forums I'm not the only one that has this gripe. A dragon article detailing some half-everything would be nice and it's much needed. Example... the Deva... which is based off of a human.... what if it was an elf?
Same thing as with a shadar-kai and a human? OK, what a bout a shadar-kai and a teifling?
Want answers!
What happens if a shadar-kai and a gnome make babies?
Same thing as with a shadar-kai and a human? OK, what a bout a shadar-kai and a teifling?
Want answers!
Lmao!!!
We've already linked to my thoughts on the subject. I think that the question is mostly a mechanical one, and seeing as the half-elf, eladrin, and elf don't share a whole lot in common mechanically, I don't think it's that big a deal.
The only real issue is that as it stands mechanically, if you have an eladrin and a human who love each other . . . then their offspring will mechanically be a half-elf who (for some reason) has access to elf-specific feats. My explanation is that their blood is diluted (like the process that formed elves in the first place) or, if you want to change it up, do as Dr. BW suggests and give them access to eladrin feats instead of elf feats. This is particularly appropriate if the character was raised among his eladrin parent's people.
Same deal with a half-drow.
A lot of the problem here is flavor, and that isn't something that you can do with just mechanics. Do it however it makes sense in your game.
(Note: My suggestions are all tentative, pending an actual half-eladrin DDI article. I'd like to see a "half-races" article, actually! There's an elf/dwarf begging to be played.)
CheersIt would be nice if they made the new character builder customizable like the previous one. I hate it when WoTC takes away things... via forums I'm not the only one that has this gripe. A dragon article detailing some half-everything would be nice and it's much needed. Example... the Deva... which is based off of a human.... what if it was an elf?
You would have a Deva with pointy ears, tops.
I have a half-eladrin in a PbP game. I finally solved the problem by coming up with and having my DM approve a half-eladrin race. Which is fairly specific, part of why 'Just use Eladrin feats' didn't work is that in-game he's the bastard son of a Ghaele of Winter and thus his eladrin blood runs rather strong. I posted it once but everyone who commented on it hated it for exactly the reasons I like it and it actually works for the character. Go figure. Yes, it does read like a cross between human and eladrin with some half-elf thrown in, that was the ENTIRE POINT.
But yeah, homebrew something that works for you. (And then don't post it anywhere.) S'what I do.
The easiest way mechanically to build a "half-" something is to take one of the parents as the "base" race (in Nai's example, it would be an eladrin, since the eladrin blood runs strongly there) and switch skill modifiers or racial abilities. A half-eladrin might be an eladrin who has heroic effort instead of fey-step, or has an extra trained skill instead of bumps in Arcana and History. Etc. If you want to go all out and make one of his "floating" ability score mods allow you to pick something from the other race, that's cool too.
So let's build a half-drow, half-dwarf (scandalous, i know!): We'll pick dwarf as his "base"--he has cloud of darkness instead of the dwarven toughness minor action second wind thing, and we want him to excel in stealth, so we drop one of the dwarf skills. He's also more charming than your average dwarf, so we open up his floating ability bump to Charisma, so he has +2 CON and +2 CHA. This makes him a fairly awesome battlemind, paladin, or warlock.
After that, it's all a question of flavor and description: What's your character like? What culture did he come from? How do people treat him?
Cheers
What about codifying those basic concepts into a hybrid-esque system for races?
Sounds like a great DDI article to me.
Cheers
Hrm...
OK, so
step one: Pick half-breed as your race.
step two: pick two races.* Each half race has an associated skill bonus and proficiencies, etc. The minor racial benefits. Each one gets roughly half of what they get as a full race.
step three: pick a primary stat from one race, your secondary stat options come from your other race.
step four: racial power...not sure about this one....
*half Humans get an extra feat and skill, but no stat bonus.
and of course, access to the feats of both races.
thoughts, anyone?
We know that an sun elf eladrin mixed with a moon elf eladrin makes either a sun elf or a moon elf, not a mixed elf. I believe (but am not sure) that an eladrin mixed with an elf makes either a full elf or a full eladrin. I don't know how drow work in canon, but it would make sense that a drow + elf/eladrin makes either an elf/eladrin or a drow, not a mix.
So, I extend all THAT to half-elves, and consider half-fey probably a more accurate description. Whatever fey breeds with a human, spits out a half-elf. As far as the feats go, I don't so much mind that there isn't a way to get eladrin or drow feats; eladrin and drow are known to be kinda snobby, and probably wouldnt want to teach their secrets to tainted offspring.
Really, it's easier to justify HE not getting eladrin/drow feats then it is to justify them getting elf feats. The easiest way to do it all imo would be to use the pattern set forth with the dusk elves: The HE could chose a feat that opens up additional access eladrin/drow/elf bloodline feats to choose later on. Yes, there is a heavier feat cost involved, but HE are already pretty good as a race.