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What about those languages?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
borris
Sep 18, 2008 22:38:33 So the new Forgotten Realms Player's Guide has a full page dedicated to the languages of Faerûn and what is spoken where, which is all weel and fine. But how does that work with character creation? Do you get your region's language as a bonus language in addition to what the PHB gives you? If so, does it mean that elves or half-elves from elven regions and dwarves from dwarven region don't get any bonus language, effectively making them worse character choices? Or do you instead know only your race's languages as per the PHB and can only acquire more through the Linguist feat? Of course, this would mean that a moon elf from Waterdeep speaks Elven and Common but not Chondathan. I'd go with the later, but it pretty much forces humans, half-elves, halflings, and tieflings to pick their starting region's language as their bonus language or be forced to speak Common with their own neighbourghs. Also, note that drow can speak Common and Elven but not Dep Speech.
#2
lord_karsus
Sep 18, 2008 22:59:13 -It works like it's always worked.

-As a side note, out of interest, what languages does the book have?
#3
JohnLynch
Sep 18, 2008 23:44:53
-It works like it's always worked.

There's nothing in the book to indicate this (unless I missed it. Quite easy). If the language were free, I'd expect it to be part of the background bonus.
#4
marius4
Sep 19, 2008 0:07:32 I didn't find any official mention of what to do regarding human starting languages under the "Humans" section nor the "Languages" section. Personally, I would give humans Common + Regional language. I would guess that's what the devs intended. EDIT: Oh wait. Duh. Humans in the PHB get a bonus language of any kind. So I'd have them instead take their regional tongue (excepting amazing back stories, of course).

EDITEDIT: I also misread your post, Borris. Yes, I think you have it right the way you put it. Waterdhavian moon elf gets Elven and Common...OR Chondathan and Common, if the player wants (I mean in my game). And drow.....it doesn't bother me so much if they don't have Deep Speech for free. I'm sure that Common + torture is just as effective.

@LK: Many to most of the languages are present, but many have been grouped together as regional dialects. For humans, there are three main language groups: Chondathan in the West, Damaran in the East, and Untheric in the South. Thus, your average person from Amn can likely understand your average person from Tethyr in a pinch since they both speak based on Chondathan.

One absence from the chart I noted was Alzhedo. "Calimshan" is simply listed as a region under the Primordial language. So I'm sure the intent there is that Alzhedo is the flavor name for the dialect of Primordial spoken in Calimshan.

Common is still a separate language, and it still gets mention as being based on Chondathan and using the Thorass alphabet. And speaking of alphabets, they are also still present. (Whew! I was worried those might be gone. )
#5
seeker_of_truth_dup
Sep 19, 2008 12:54:55
-As a side note, out of interest, what languages does the book have?

Abyssal
Chondathan
Common
Damaran
Deep Speech
Draconic
Dwarven
Elven
Giant
Goblin
Netherese
Primordial
Shou
Supernal
Thayan
Tuigan
Untheric

Mentioned in the FRCG
Halruaan
Kir-Lanan
Mulhorandi
Sarrukhar
#6
borris
Sep 21, 2008 3:12:16 And as far as speech is concerned, Mulhorandi and Thayan are the exact same thing. Since Mulhorand is no more, it'd make sense for people to call the language Thayan.
#7
xmen510
Sep 21, 2008 7:45:36 Thayan and Mulhorandi aren't exactly the same. One is a dialect really, which is different. It would be like saying that Okanawan is the same as Japanese.

#8
zanan
Sep 21, 2008 11:33:24
Also, note that drow can speak Common and Elven but not Dep Speech.

No, it is not new. It is the simplistic style 4E has genreally adopted. And some neat ignorance of about 897 threads on that topic since the WizBoards have been up and running.

It would have been oh so easy to simply copy the lines of Drow of the Underdark with regards to the Drow's dialect of elven, the Silent Speech and Undercommon. Why the designers actually needed to rename it Deep Speech is beyond me. Maybe some Copyright issue with third party drow books?

As it is, we will again see umpteen threads and questions being thrown about whether elves understand drow and vice versa, as their languages are not distinguished from one another in the 4E books. Dispairing stuff by the designers ...
#9
davesaunders
Sep 21, 2008 17:45:44 Does Drow sign language still exist? I dont have the Player Book, but I dont think I am going to get it. I am just curious.
#10
lord_karsus
Sep 21, 2008 19:54:13
Does Drow sign language still exist? I dont have the Player Book, but I dont think I am going to get it. I am just curious.

-Even if it's not mentioned, we shouldn't assume that it's gone. Rather, if it's not mentioned, we should assume it still exists. That goes for everything, not just this one aspect.
#11
Iluvrien
Sep 21, 2008 20:07:27
-Even if it's not mentioned, we shouldn't assume that it's gone. Rather, if it's not mentioned, we should assume it still exists. That goes for everything, not just this one aspect.

Note to self... just because Drizzt's brain isn't mentioned that doesn't mean it is absent.... probably. :D
#12
lord_karsus
Sep 21, 2008 21:21:48
Note to self... just because Drizzt's brain isn't mentioned that doesn't mean it is absent.... probably. :D

-In the immortal words of Qui-Gon Jinn: "The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
#13
keithp
Jan 02, 2009 18:53:24 I was wondering about this issue, and would have started a new thread but discovered this one.

I started to think that something was broken when I saw that Drow don't have Deep Speech. I have been thinking for my campaign (which was to start tommorow, but has been delayed) that people should get their regional language instead of Common. But, I realized that not all characters in the party will have a common language, so I'm not entirely happy about that either.

The characters in the party will include an Elf from the High Forest, a Drow from below the High Forest, an Elf from Luskan, an Eladrin from Myth Drannor and a Dragonborn from a place yet to be determined.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 borris Sep 18, 2008 22:38:33	So the new Forgotten Realms Player's Guide has a full page dedicated to the languages of Faerûn and what is spoken where, which is all weel and fine. But how does that work with character creation? Do you get your region's language as a bonus language in addition to what the PHB gives you? If so, does it mean that elves or half-elves from elven regions and dwarves from dwarven region don't get any bonus language, effectively making them worse character choices? Or do you instead know only your race's languages as per the PHB and can only acquire more through the Linguist feat? Of course, this would mean that a moon elf from Waterdeep speaks Elven and Common but not Chondathan. I'd go with the later, but it pretty much forces humans, half-elves, halflings, and tieflings to pick their starting region's language as their bonus language or be forced to speak Common with their own neighbourghs. Also, note that drow can speak Common and Elven but not Dep Speech.
#2 lord_karsus Sep 18, 2008 22:59:13	-It works like it's always worked. -As a side note, out of interest, what languages does the book have?
#3 JohnLynch Sep 18, 2008 23:44:53	-It works like it's always worked. There's nothing in the book to indicate this (unless I missed it. Quite easy). If the language were free, I'd expect it to be part of the background bonus.
#4 marius4 Sep 19, 2008 0:07:32	I didn't find any official mention of what to do regarding human starting languages under the "Humans" section nor the "Languages" section. Personally, I would give humans Common + Regional language. I would guess that's what the devs intended. EDIT: Oh wait. Duh. Humans in the PHB get a bonus language of any kind. So I'd have them instead take their regional tongue (excepting amazing back stories, of course). EDITEDIT: I also misread your post, Borris. Yes, I think you have it right the way you put it. Waterdhavian moon elf gets Elven and Common...OR Chondathan and Common, if the player wants (I mean in my game). And drow.....it doesn't bother me so much if they don't have Deep Speech for free. I'm sure that Common + torture is just as effective. @LK: Many to most of the languages are present, but many have been grouped together as regional dialects. For humans, there are three main language groups: Chondathan in the West, Damaran in the East, and Untheric in the South. Thus, your average person from Amn can likely understand your average person from Tethyr in a pinch since they both speak based on Chondathan. One absence from the chart I noted was Alzhedo. "Calimshan" is simply listed as a region under the Primordial language. So I'm sure the intent there is that Alzhedo is the flavor name for the dialect of Primordial spoken in Calimshan. Common is still a separate language, and it still gets mention as being based on Chondathan and using the Thorass alphabet. And speaking of alphabets, they are also still present. (Whew! I was worried those might be gone. )
#5 seeker_of_truth_dup Sep 19, 2008 12:54:55	-As a side note, out of interest, what languages does the book have? Abyssal Chondathan Common Damaran Deep Speech Draconic Dwarven Elven Giant Goblin Netherese Primordial Shou Supernal Thayan Tuigan Untheric Mentioned in the FRCG Halruaan Kir-Lanan Mulhorandi Sarrukhar
#6 borris Sep 21, 2008 3:12:16	And as far as speech is concerned, Mulhorandi and Thayan are the exact same thing. Since Mulhorand is no more, it'd make sense for people to call the language Thayan.
#7 xmen510 Sep 21, 2008 7:45:36	Thayan and Mulhorandi aren't exactly the same. One is a dialect really, which is different. It would be like saying that Okanawan is the same as Japanese.
#8 zanan Sep 21, 2008 11:33:24	Also, note that drow can speak Common and Elven but not Dep Speech. No, it is not new. It is the simplistic style 4E has genreally adopted. And some neat ignorance of about 897 threads on that topic since the WizBoards have been up and running. It would have been oh so easy to simply copy the lines of Drow of the Underdark with regards to the Drow's dialect of elven, the Silent Speech and Undercommon. Why the designers actually needed to rename it Deep Speech is beyond me. Maybe some Copyright issue with third party drow books? As it is, we will again see umpteen threads and questions being thrown about whether elves understand drow and vice versa, as their languages are not distinguished from one another in the 4E books. Dispairing stuff by the designers ...
#9 davesaunders Sep 21, 2008 17:45:44	Does Drow sign language still exist? I dont have the Player Book, but I dont think I am going to get it. I am just curious.
#10 lord_karsus Sep 21, 2008 19:54:13	Does Drow sign language still exist? I dont have the Player Book, but I dont think I am going to get it. I am just curious. -Even if it's not mentioned, we shouldn't assume that it's gone. Rather, if it's not mentioned, we should assume it still exists. That goes for everything, not just this one aspect.
#11 Iluvrien Sep 21, 2008 20:07:27	-Even if it's not mentioned, we shouldn't assume that it's gone. Rather, if it's not mentioned, we should assume it still exists. That goes for everything, not just this one aspect. Note to self... just because Drizzt's brain isn't mentioned that doesn't mean it is absent.... probably. :D
#12 lord_karsus Sep 21, 2008 21:21:48	Note to self... just because Drizzt's brain isn't mentioned that doesn't mean it is absent.... probably. :D -In the immortal words of Qui-Gon Jinn: "The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
#13 keithp Jan 02, 2009 18:53:24	I was wondering about this issue, and would have started a new thread but discovered this one. I started to think that something was broken when I saw that Drow don't have Deep Speech. I have been thinking for my campaign (which was to start tommorow, but has been delayed) that people should get their regional language instead of Common. But, I realized that not all characters in the party will have a common language, so I'm not entirely happy about that either. The characters in the party will include an Elf from the High Forest, a Drow from below the High Forest, an Elf from Luskan, an Eladrin from Myth Drannor and a Dragonborn from a place yet to be determined.