Hello,
This is a newbie question possibly but I'm a newbie when it comes to Forgotten Realms so I figure that it's fitting enough.
I just picked up the FR 4E campaign guide (a little late!) with the intent of making a game for some other newbies and was thinking of Neverwinter as a setting since we have a passing knowledge of it from the video games.
Only, it looks like it was destroyed sometime in the last 100 years. I can't seem to find information on it, and searching the forums it seems like there really isn't much about it out there. Is this correct or is there some vital piece of literature that I'm missing that would at least give a passing idea of what happened. I have no real qualms about making up my own history but was curious of what the official canon might be.
Thanks for any help.
To be honest, we don't know too much about what happened to Neverwinter in the past century. Apparently, it was ravaged by the Spellplague and pushed to the brink of annihilation, but whereas most other ravaged cities were destroyed, Neverwinter managed to stabilize and make a slow recovery. Not much beyond that, to my knowledge.
It's NDA-ed until the new game comes out.
It's NDA-ed until the"alledged" new game comes out.
fixed
I believe there was some speculation around here or Candlekeep just within the last month or so, mostly regarding how the city could be destroyed and still make a quick recovery. I forget the exact discussion, perhaps a participant in it can link us to the actual thread.
One idea that seems to crop up is that the physical city itself is more or less intact, but some sort of plague decimated the population. That would account for a potential quick recovery in any supposed game in the works.
I haven't seen the thread that you are talking about though I will keep an eye open for it.
As for the "some sort of plague" wasn't that the Wailing Death covered in the original NWN game that seems to have been semi-canonised? From previous discussions on this forum I always got the feeling that something happened to the structure of the city, not just to the populace. There was a thread about that here I think, although it is likely about a year old so I wouldn't easily be able to find it without my old subscriptions. I will keep an eye out for that one too!
To tell the truth, I'm not sure where I'm getting this information. I do strongly recall the rough topics of the discussion, but I can't recall the full context. For all I know I'm mixing it up if the discussion actually went: "It can't possibly be a plague given the information we had on the physical destruction of the city."
Though I don't think that was the case. I've only recently re-started skimming the threads here and at Candlekeep, so the discussion may be longer than a month ago.
I for one wish they would move locales for the next iteration of FR computer games. I always found Neverwinter and Luskan to be a bit of a snoozer. Sort of the arse end of the Sword Coast.
Where is it that it says that Neverwinter has been resettled? I haven't found any mention of it in the 4E game products. Of course I realize it might have been mentioned in one of the novels.
Filson
To tell the truth, I'm not sure where I'm getting this information. I do strongly recall the rough topics of the discussion, but I can't recall the full context.
I believe BRJ and/or Rich Baker dropped a hint or two regarding Neverwinter, which is basically the extent of our knowledge.
Ask and you shall receive.
and that still only states rumor
and with the law suit its fate is up in the air
So the logical answer is: Op do whatever you want with the place.
I'm pretty sure it was BRJ who mentioned (in a thread here, earlier this year I think) that Neverwinter was in the process of recovering from the Spellplague, and while trashed, was not over by any stretch. Just think of it as carte blanche to do whatever you like with it.
Funny. I thought you had jumped ship. Glad to have been proven wrong.
Or
I bumped them also.
What's funny is people keep referring to Brian James saying that Neverwinter wasn't destroyed or is on the rebound, but I have yet to see anyone say where he actually said it or provide a link to it. Ther have only been references to him saying it. No exactly what I would call compelling proof of anything.
So, in light of the fact that the FRCG says "utter ruin" and that it is not even an option for a starting character and that no one can produce compelling evidence otherwise; I would have to say it's worse off than Luskan (at least Luskan is mentioned as a viable place to hail from). And being that Luskan is pretty messed up, Neverwinter must be an absolute waste.
Filson
Rumors aside. Filson's right. Since the language in the FRCG is clear, anything else is wishful thinking until proven otherwise in an official product.
Think of it as an opportunity for adventurers to explore what (little) maybe left of the city and perhaps rebuild it.
Rumors aside. Filson's right. Since the language in the FRCG is clear, anything else is wishful thinking until proven otherwise in an official product.
Well yes, this is true. However, Luskan is also described as being in "utter ruin", in the same sentence as Neverwinter. Luskan seems to be staying afloat, though (which is to say, people still maintain some semblance of civilization there), even if things have gone to hell in a handbasket. While Neverwinter wasn't really talked about it, it doesn't really follow that it's version of "utter ruin" is any different/worse than Luskan's, even if it didn't get mention beyond a sentence. Notice how other cities that were true, desolate ruins (like Starmantle) actually did get notable mention. Heck, Luskan got more mention than Icewind Dale, which got one measly sentence about its location, if I recall.
What's funny is people keep referring to Brian James saying that Neverwinter wasn't destroyed or is on the rebound, but I have yet to see anyone say where he actually said it or provide a link to it. Ther have only been references to him saying it. No exactly what I would call compelling proof of anything.
So, in light of the fact that the FRCG says "utter ruin" and that it is not even an option for a starting character and that no one can produce compelling evidence otherwise; I would have to say it's worse off than Luskan (at least Luskan is mentioned as a viable place to hail from). And being that Luskan is pretty messed up, Neverwinter must be an absolute waste.
Filson
Despite the language in the FRCS, rest assured that Neverwinter's bleak days are in the past and it too will enjoy a period of recovery.
Does this help?
What's funny is people keep referring to Brian James saying that Neverwinter wasn't destroyed or is on the rebound, but I have yet to see anyone say where he actually said it or provide a link to it. Ther have only been references to him saying it. No exactly what I would call compelling proof of anything.
So, in light of the fact that the FRCG says "utter ruin" and that it is not even an option for a starting character and that no one can produce compelling evidence otherwise; I would have to say it's worse off than Luskan (at least Luskan is mentioned as a viable place to hail from). And being that Luskan is pretty messed up, Neverwinter must be an absolute waste.
Filson
Despite the language in the FRCS, rest assured that Neverwinter's bleak days are in the past and it too will enjoy a period of recovery.
Does this help?
If I could high five you, I would.
Very helpful. Thanks, Delta.
Filson
Funny. I thought you had jumped ship. Glad to have been proven wrong.
I still might, this place is a pain to navigate these days...
Funny. I thought you had jumped ship. Glad to have been proven wrong.
I still might, this place is a pain to navigate these days...
Don't. We'd all miss you. Nightseer would cry for days.
See, now that's just incentive to me... it's that whole ebil vibe I've got going on.
See, now that's just incentive to me... it's that whole ebil vibe I've got going on.
Well, in Nightseer's case, you'd only be strengthening him. As a Sharran, he feeds off sorrow and pain, especially his own. Don't give him a power boost!
See, but now it would upset you if I did, so there's further incentive. The boards looking like crap isn't helping much either...
See, but now it would upset you if I did, so there's further incentive. The boards looking like crap isn't helping much either...
Hey, I've seen plenty of meetings and partings. Won't put me in a tizzy.
I merely appreciate your past participation.
I was referring to empowering a certain Sharran actually...
I was referring to empowering a certain Sharran actually...
Woops. Totally misread that one. My mistake.
Where's my "D'oh" smilie when I need it?
I'd tell you, but I'm mean and don't really feel like it... 
I'd tell you, but I'm mean and don't really feel like it...
Dahhh! Stop keeping secrets! That just empowers Nightseer too!
And I realize now how off-topic this is getting, so to make amends: What has everyone done with Neverwinter in their campaigns?
Not much at the moment... as I'm not gaming in the Realms at the moment. When I do go back to it, I'm pretty much considering a version where the churches of Sune, Lliira, Oghma, and Gond go on something of an offensive and make sure Nasher is replaced by someone more amenable to their wishes. After I nuke Luskan off the face of Toril that is...
Haven't done anything with it either; my campaign's off in Akanul so no reason to even mention the North really.
Besides, after the first Neverwinter game, I'm glad the city's destroyed. Hanging that poor elf cleric! Good riddance to the city, I say!
Haven't done anything with it either; my campaign's off in Akanul so no reason to even mention the North really.
Besides, after the first Neverwinter game, I'm glad the city's destroyed. Hanging that poor elf cleric! Good riddance to the city, I say!
Good riddance to Nasher, perhaps, but the rest of the city? Anyway, I'm working on a version of Neverwinter for a possible future game. I've got it wrecked by war, with no government in place, rather in the style of Phlan from at the time of Pool of Radiance. i'm basing it somewhat on NWN2 being canon.
My current idea is that when the Spellplague started the orc tribes that were driven out of Old Owl Well took it back, then defeated an attempt by Neverwinter to take it back. Lord Nasher died without a legitimate heir, nobles started quarreling over the succession, there's fighting in the streets, and then the orcs move again and attack Neverwinter. Population in the area is devastated, the lower city is wrecked, lots of inhabitants flee as refugees. The orcs leave when they can't storm the upper city, but Castle Never has sealed itself magically, there aren't many citizens left to rule, so they're followed by a majority of the nobles. So you end up with a city with few inhabitants, no government, and plenty of ruins overlooked by a reputedly haunted and magically sealed castle. People aren't flocking to go back there until it's safer.
The major human settlement in the area is initially going to be Crossroads Keep, which is one of the few places that held off the orcs. It's the Lord Captain of Crossroads Keep who is seeking adventurers, to start the recovery of Neverwinter from the bandit gangs, pirates, and other groups that live in the ruins.
sounds like fun
Despite the presentation made by NWN 1/2, I don't recall ever reading anything indicating that the leadership of Neverwinter was a hereditary position, more one of acclamation. Of course there's not much mention of it having nobility either... though it was specifically stated that the city didn't have slums. Volo's Guide to the North would be a good place to look for a more 'correct' version of Neverwinter, rather than relying on dodgy video game translations. Its a much cooler place in the books than on the screen.
nuh uh, neverwinter wasnt so hot in the books.... aLl I ever saw of it in the books was tangeled webs, and it was only the docks.
wasnt even a character named Jenny from the docks in it.....
heck I saw more o' Luskan than I have Neverwinter.
That said, I like the map of nwn2 better than nwn1.
Not the novels, the sourcebooks. I'd never recommend the novels to anyone to be honest...
Volo's Guide to the North I think is the best one out there, as The North boxed set was pretty much an abbreviated recap of what was in there, and 3e's coverage was lacking comparatively.
Not the novels, the sourcebooks. I'd never recommend the novels to anyone to be honest...
Volo's Guide to the North I think is the best one out there, as The North boxed set was pretty much an abbreviated recap of what was in there, and 3e's coverage was lacking comparatively.
There's about a paragraph covering Lord Nasher and a little bit more about Neverwinter's military. Nothing in either of those about how Neverwinter gets it's rulers, about political factions, or much on how the government works (or fails to work). And I checked FR1 Waterdeep and the North and a couple of other 1e sources too.
That means I get to make it up.
You always got to make it up, no matter what the sourcebooks said. 
You always got to make it up, no matter what the sourcebooks said.
Because Fluff Lawyering is about as useful as Rules Lawyering...
One cannot violate the "Most Holy Cannon"...
The thought of Neverwinter looking like Berlin Germany circa May 15th 1945 does have a certain appeal to me. How long did it take for Heinz to rebuild anyway?
yeah Like Nasher getting jumped by the local branch of shadowthieves and having a belt of femine stuck on him.....
Lady Nasha Alagondar anyone???
I pay fluff lawyers as much heed as I do rules lawyers, and give them both the same response... sit down, shut up, and I won't hit you with my DMG.
I pay fluff lawyers as much heed as I do rules lawyers, and give them both the same response... sit down, shut up, and I won't hit you with my DMG.
That is the proper way of dealing with those trolls!