Does anyone know what happened to the Stormlord. Ive read on other boards that he was in reality an aspect of the orc god Grummpsh (spelling?).
If this is the case where and when do we find this out. I remember reading that Talos was created from the battle of Selune and Shar.
Any help would be great. If Talos is in fact gone who is the new god of Storms in the Realms?
Thanks in advance
To quote LK LORD RETCON is what happened. I think its stupid myself Talos being Gruumsh. So I have the Church of Talos being at WAR with all of Gruumsh's followers. Thats what happens when Gruumsh tries to eat another God
aye they combined his stupid self with gruumsh.
Not the best of ideas.
Well someone thought it was genius when it was done. Kinda makes me wonder about people at WotC...
I'm not just sure its just them, might be hasbro too
During the War of Light and Darkness between Selûne and Shar, Shar recruited many fiends and dark deities from beyond the planes to enter Faerun's cosmology and fight on her behalf. Gruumsh was one of these deities. His portfolio included destruction. There were no orcs on Toril at the time, so Gruumsh came to be worshiped by some humans under the name of Talos. He was known to the Netherese as Kozah, and in Calimshan as Bhaelros. In the underdark he was worshiped under the guise of Malyk. He was probably known by countless other names down through the ages. When orcs eventually migrated to Toril, they worshiped him under the name by which he was known to them -- Gruumsh.
There is some evidence to suggest that Gruumsh was not originally an orc deity, but perhaps had some link to the Feywild and the Fomorians, and or the cylopes. Which may explain his one eye, and his legendary rivalry with Corellon Larethian.
Gruumsh turns out to be a much more layered and storied deity than we had known. I don't think that the fact that Talos was revealed to secretly have been Gruumsh all along detracts from his mythology. In my opinion, it adds to it. There are probably many humans who are unaware of Talos's other identity, and may still continue to worship him under his Talos alias.
Doubtless that Gruumsh's story will continue to evolve as 4e lore develops. I look forward to finding out more about Gruumsh's Feywild connections and his links to the Fomorians. My own suspicion is that Gruumsh used to have a Formorian "evil eye" that he used in battle against Corellon, which Corellon blinded.
That does sound very plausible
Man that sucks to have Talos be an aspect of ol' One Eye.
I have an Eladrin Storm Sorcerer that was going to worship Talos. Can't have him worship an orc god.
Noticed in the players guide that no one has claimed the storms portfolio, or did i miss something.
Well said Gray, well said.
I was thinking of having Talos escape from Gruumsh and gaining "self-awareness" so to speak. Like Athena and Zeus.
Now Gruumsh is having his "Orcs" slay any and all followers of Talos to weaken him.
I think it would make a great plot for a story. Do the Pc's help Gruumsh, or Talos?
Sounds kewl!
Man that sucks to have Talos be an aspect of ol' One Eye.
I have an Eladrin Storm Sorcerer that was going to worship Talos. Can't have him worship an orc god.
Noticed in the players guide that no one has claimed the storms portfolio, or did i miss something.
For Storms I would go with Silvanus, or Umberlee. Or Valkur, I forgot about him, hes always been associated with storms, although I see him as more of a sailors god, who they pray to for protectection agaist storms or for smooth sailing. Also you dont have to just follow just one god, most of the residents of Toril worship the Pantheon as a whole.
Not in my Realms.
I greatly dislike redaction, retrofitting, and retcons that only serve the purpose of explaining the whims of the current design team, whether it's 2E, 3E or 4E.
But then, in my Realms, the gods are actually gods and don't get stat blocks. There was no Time of Troubles, no Spellplague, and certainly no 100-year jump.
Thats certainatly one way to do it!
By the way I just read your questions to Ed over at Loremaster. Kudos to you!
Well said Gray, well said.
I was thinking of having Talos escape from Gruumsh and gaining "self-awareness" so to speak. Like Athena and Zeus.
Now Gruumsh is having his "Orcs" slay any and all followers of Talos to weaken him.
I think it would make a great plot for a story. Do the Pc's help Gruumsh, or Talos?
I like it. That is a great plot for a story! Kudos to you too, but youll have to share with Erianthe, Im all out.
Not in my Realms.
I greatly dislike redaction, retrofitting, and retcons that only serve the purpose of explaining the whims of the current design team, whether it's 2E, 3E or 4E.
But then, in my Realms, the gods are actually gods and don't get stat blocks. There was no Time of Troubles, no Spellplague, and certainly no 100-year jump.
Then why do you care?
Um, why wouldn't he care? :|
Each new retcon and new piece of retarded badly-thought-out crud they come out with means:
No more support for old versions of things.
Having to argue with new players to your game who insist that no, this is the way it is, wotc said so.
Back to 1 again, having to deal with any new lore shoving the retcon in your face.
Also lol at the people who think they're actually going to develop anything. Right, just like the Seldarine got so involved in the WotSQ events. Except whoops, even though most of them *hate* Lolth and want her dead, gods know none of them even bothered at all. Please. BS. Then again I don't think Salvatore even knows who Corellon is, let alone the rest of the Seldarine. *eyeroll*
I'm bitter and cranky tonight. Deal w/ it.
By Hanali's hair man relax
I like the idea that Gruumsh wa snot ortiginally an orc deity... In fact, I like the idea that Gruumsh may not even be the deity's real name. A fey fomorian patron, who adopted the orcs (under the guise of Gruumsh) mary work well.
Do the fomorians have a god?
Gomez
I like Talos and Gruumsh seperate, thank you very much.
Since when did Gruumsh like lightningstorms?
And didn't Auril get the Storms portfolio in 4e? I do like her growth in portfolios and her new link to the Queen of Light and Darkness in the 15th century realms.
I like Eilistraee.
the masked lady was a good concept too....
I like Talos and Gruumsh seperate, thank you very much.
Well, we are talking gods - they can be the same and separate at the same time. In fact, Ed once wrote that that was how he envisioned the Realmsian gods: mysterious enough that you never really knew what was true about them (I paraphrase there, but I belive that was the essence).
Gomez
Um, why wouldn't he care? :|
Actually, I'm a girl IRL. I know, geeky girl... I suppose I should have a better icon.
That makes, what, 3 of us here on the Realms board to deal with all the testosterone?
<<--is a girl too. 
Girls...:drools:
I thought about saying something on those lines delta... but.... I couldnt think of something to say that I wouldnt regret later
That makes, what, 3 of us here on the Realms board to deal with all the testosterone?
Why assume that only girls can deal with testosterone?
Or that all girls deal with testosterone...
Gomez
Correct. Auril gained dominion over storms from Talos during a Spellplague-era event known as the Stormstar Requiem.
didn't Auril get the Storms portfolio in 4e? I do like her growth in portfolios and her new link to the Queen of Light and Darkness in the 15th century realms.
speaking of Auril, whats her alignment these days??
speaking of Auril, whats her alignment these days??
Super Duper Evil, with a few Lawful Meh tendencies.
speaking of Auril, whats her alignment these days??
Still evil, but slowly turning to unaligned, I believe.
well thats good.
well thats good.
You have just earned a copper talon which you can spend in the fine city of Ruinspoke
I'm wasn't unhappy at all to find out Talos was actually Gruumsh - in fact, it makes sense that some gods would masquerade as others in order to expand their power base. Humans are more numerous than orcs, so why not tap into the resource.
That said, I could imagine a big schism in the church of gruumsh and all sorts of interesting plots going on between the human and orc followers.... could be alot of fun to play out
I'm wasn't unhappy at all to find out Talos was actually Gruumsh - in fact, it makes sense that some gods would masquerade as others in order to expand their power base. Humans are more numerous than orcs, so why not tap into the resource.
That said, I could imagine a big schism in the church of gruumsh and all sorts of interesting plots going on between the human and orc followers.... could be alot of fun to play out
Talos is one of my favorite human deities, so I can honestly say I threw out that change as soon as I heard it. But, speaking on canonical terms, a schism would be very plausible indeed. In fact, I can see the church of Talos being sundered. Some decide to follow Gruumsh (perhaps as Talos still), others turn to the other Gods of Fury. Of course, those who side with Gruumsh will be none too pleased to see their fellows abandon the Destroyer for his lessers, so war will break out. And the orcs shall be ready to back up the humans who have accepted Gruumsh as the true face of Talos.
I like the idea that Gruumsh wa snot ortiginally an orc deity... In fact, I like the idea that Gruumsh may not even be the deity's real name. A fey fomorian patron, who adopted the orcs (under the guise of Gruumsh) mary work well.
Do the fomorians have a god?
Gomez
Balor sounds like he would be appropriate for that. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balor One eye and all.
I'm wasn't unhappy at all to find out Talos was actually Gruumsh - in fact, it makes sense that some gods would masquerade as others in order to expand their power base. Humans are more numerous than orcs, so why not tap into the resource.
That said, I could imagine a big schism in the church of gruumsh and all sorts of interesting plots going on between the human and orc followers.... could be alot of fun to play out
Talos is one of my favorite human deities, so I can honestly say I threw out that change as soon as I heard it. But, speaking on canonical terms, a schism would be very plausible indeed. In fact, I can see the church of Talos being sundered. Some decide to follow Gruumsh (perhaps as Talos still), others turn to the other Gods of Fury. Of course, those who side with Gruumsh will be none too pleased to see their fellows abandon the Destroyer for his lessers, so war will break out. And the orcs shall be ready to back up the humans who have accepted Gruumsh as the true face of Talos.
I don't think I recall many throwing out 3.5 Realms stuff as much as they're doing with 4.0 Realms stuff. Excluding the whole Time of Troubles incident....
I find the whole Talos is Grumsh thing ridiculous. It should definitely be the other way around. Why they felt it had to be the former, rather than the latter, makes no sense to me--no matter how prominent orcs are supposed to be in 4e.
Besides, Shar obviously was assisting with things. Therefore, enabling him to strike at her first.
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orcThat just doesn't look right.
Damn it Wizards give me my cotton picken smilies back!
Not this crap:
Right. We don't get nice things...
That's as dumbarse as offing Helm and several other gods... Sending Tyr away.... Not to mention the whole spellplague crap as a way to wuss out of a creative writing session...
Couldn't have said it better myself.
That's as dumbarse as offing Helm and several other gods... Sending Tyr away.... Not to mention the whole spellplague crap as a way to wuss out of a creative writing session...
ummm... Tyr and Helm were symptomatic of the poor creative writing that underpinned the original FR--they are simply Norse gods who were brought to the setting.
Getting rid of them was neccessary to break from the RL-analogues that populated the Realm, which is why the more blatant RL-realms such as Calimshan and the Moonshaes were dramatically changed, or removed like the Old Empires and Maztica.
ummm... Tyr and Helm were symptomatic of the poor creative writing that underpinned the original FR--they are simply Norse gods who were brought to the setting.
Getting rid of them was neccessary to break from the RL-analogues that populated the Realm, which is why the more blatant RL-realms such as Calimshan and the Moonshaes were dramatically changed, or removed like the Old Empires and Maztica.
If that were true, the other RL analogue deities would have been offed, and the other RL analogues would have been altered/removed. Remember, Tyr originally wasn't going anywhere in the 4E transition, until a certain someone made his case for Torm. Plus, 4E introduced some new RL analogues, the CCC probably the biggest (in my mind at least), and I have yet to see anyone stand up and praise the CCC idea.
it just seems like a massive of cop-out and oversimplification to change the entire pantheonic structure of the realms.
I liked Talos, Yondalla, Aerdrie, Sehanine and all of the deities that were subsumed as individual entities.
ummm... Tyr and Helm were symptomatic of the poor creative writing that underpinned the original FR--they are simply Norse gods who were brought to the setting.
Getting rid of them was neccessary to break from the RL-analogues that populated the Realm, which is why the more blatant RL-realms such as Calimshan and the Moonshaes were dramatically changed, or removed like the Old Empires and Maztica.
If that were true, the other RL analogue deities would have been offed, and the other RL analogues would have been altered/removed. Remember, Tyr originally wasn't going anywhere in the 4E transition, until a certain someone made his case for Torm. Plus, 4E introduced some new RL analogues, the CCC probably the biggest (in my mind at least), and I have yet to see anyone stand up and praise the CCC idea.
it was a balancing act. the authors wanted to take out the more egregious RL-analogues, and they did exactly that, but they didn't want to go full bore and strip out everything that had a RL-analogue from the setting.
some stuff remains certainly, but it's hardly as conspicuous as Mulhorond/Egypt or Tyr/Tyr. Even Arthurian England/Cormyr is now not a benevolent Kingdom of Good but an Imperial power.
The 4E re-designers philosophy is written up in Worlds and Monsters. Here's an excerpt:
"The world should be more fantastic and less representative of real-world history and nature. We want D&D cultures to blend real-world civilizations and fantastic elements, not merely rehash medieval France and Renaissance England."
it was a balancing act. the authors wanted to take out the more egregious RL-analogues, and they did exactly that, but they didn't want to go full bore and strip out everything that had a RL-analogue from the setting.
some stuff remains certainly, but it's hardly as conspicuous as Mulhorond/Egypt or Tyr/Tyr. Even Arthurian England/Cormyr is now not a benevolent Kingdom of Good but an Imperial power.
The 4E re-designers philosophy is written up in Worlds and Monsters. Here's an excerpt:
"The world should be more fantastic and less representative of real-world history and nature. We want D&D cultures to blend real-world civilizations and fantastic elements, not merely rehash medieval France and Renaissance England."
I understand their position. I just wish they had tried to make the greater analogues more fantastic (like what they did with the Moonshaes) rather than eliminate them altogether (Unther being flattened by a dragonborn kingdom, for example). I wasn't fond of the idea that areas like Mulhorand and Chessenta were "beyond hope", so to speak. It would have been more difficult to change them, certainly, but I'm of the mind that such effort would have allowed for greater creativity and would have been a lot more appealing to the fans. Personally, I also found the Realms KKK that was added to be every bit as conspicuous as the analogues that were tossed, though I'm not sure who's more responsible: the designers for allowing such a concept, or RAS for really introducing it.
it was a balancing act. the authors wanted to take out the more egregious RL-analogues, and they did exactly that, but they didn't want to go full bore and strip out everything that had a RL-analogue from the setting.
some stuff remains certainly, but it's hardly as conspicuous as Mulhorond/Egypt or Tyr/Tyr. Even Arthurian England/Cormyr is now not a benevolent Kingdom of Good but an Imperial power.
The 4E re-designers philosophy is written up in Worlds and Monsters. Here's an excerpt:
"The world should be more fantastic and less representative of real-world history and nature. We want D&D cultures to blend real-world civilizations and fantastic elements, not merely rehash medieval France and Renaissance England."
I understand their position. I just wish they had tried to make the greater analogues more fantastic (like what they did with the Moonshaes) rather than eliminate them altogether (Unther being flattened by a dragonborn kingdom, for example). I wasn't fond of the idea that areas like Mulhorand and Chessenta were "beyond hope", so to speak. It would have been more difficult to change them, certainly, but I'm of the mind that such effort would have allowed for greater creativity and would have been a lot more appealing to the fans. Personally, I also found the Realms KKK that was added to be every bit as conspicuous as the analogues that were tossed, though I'm not sure who's more responsible: the designers for allowing such a concept, or RAS for really introducing it.
This is exactly my position. Even if Maztica, for example, was too RL analagous and not terribly well done, I still prefer knowing that Toril held a fantastical mirror Aztec/Maya civilization. It already does with every other major civilization. They could have updated realms like Maztica, Mulhorand and Unther and made them much better, instead of replacing it unapologetically with another generic dragonland.
However, with Unther and Mulhorand it almost makes sense as those were ancient civilizations that were long gone even in medieval times.
it was a balancing act. the authors wanted to take out the more egregious RL-analogues, and they did exactly that, but they didn't want to go full bore and strip out everything that had a RL-analogue from the setting.
some stuff remains certainly, but it's hardly as conspicuous as Mulhorond/Egypt or Tyr/Tyr. Even Arthurian England/Cormyr is now not a benevolent Kingdom of Good but an Imperial power.
The 4E re-designers philosophy is written up in Worlds and Monsters. Here's an excerpt:
"The world should be more fantastic and less representative of real-world history and nature. We want D&D cultures to blend real-world civilizations and fantastic elements, not merely rehash medieval France and Renaissance England."
I understand their position. I just wish they had tried to make the greater analogues more fantastic (like what they did with the Moonshaes) rather than eliminate them altogether (Unther being flattened by a dragonborn kingdom, for example). I wasn't fond of the idea that areas like Mulhorand and Chessenta were "beyond hope", so to speak. It would have been more difficult to change them, certainly, but I'm of the mind that such effort would have allowed for greater creativity and would have been a lot more appealing to the fans. Personally, I also found the Realms KKK that was added to be every bit as conspicuous as the analogues that were tossed, though I'm not sure who's more responsible: the designers for allowing such a concept, or RAS for really introducing it.
Mulhorond probably wasn't "beyond hope" but Unther was boring (although what could have been done--transforming it into the "Realm of Dead Gilgeam", or something like that, might have saved it), and what replaced Mulhorond (largely--there's still a remnant of the old Mulan order there for an enterprising DM to work with) is actually "fantastic" and far more suited to what the Realms is now.
Chessenta was also dull as goats, and what remains of it keeps the one really interesting thing--the annihilation-worshipping psycho-house of Lothcheq (is that right?)--that was ever included in the country, and that still goes with the setting.
While I don't love EVERYTHING about the new FR, imho, it's a dramatic improvement on what came before. It's more dangerous, more exciting, and more diverse.
Mulhorond probably wasn't "beyond hope" but Unther was boring (although what could have been done--transforming it into the "Realm of Dead Gilgeam", or something like that, might have saved it), and what replaced Mulhorond (largely--there's still a remnant of the old Mulan order there for an enterprising DM to work with) is actually "fantastic" and far more suited to what the Realms is now.
I have mixed feelings about Tymanther and Imaskar. With regards to the former, I'm actually fond of the idea of a dragonborn kingdom fighting for survival in a harsh land. However, I think its execution was rather poor - the kingdom flattens Unther and adjusts quickly enough to a strange world that doesn't have much of an idea about dragonborn. Tucking it into a corner of the world was a smart move, but I just didn't appreciate the literal crushing of Unther that introduced Tymanther. Personally, I thought it would have been much more interesting if the dragonborn entered Toril via a rift or something along those lines (and not a falling landmass), established some crude sort of territory, invaded Unther, and fought for control of the land with the natives. With Mulhorand around, it could have been a three-way power struggle between the pharoah's troops, the Untherite rebels, and the dragonborn horde. That sort of idea held a lot more promise, at least in my eyes.
Turning to Imaskar, I agree that it holds a lot of promise, and can really enthrall a player/DM. Unfortunately (for me and those who share the opinion), its incorporation is a habit to which the designers (at least some of them) seem to have become attached, and that is the idea that the return of long-lost empires are always viable developments. I'm just not fond of having a thriving, powerful empire disappear under the sands so that a long-dead one can return. On a much lesser note, I'm also not fond of Ususi being Empress. Having read all of Bruce's works, I can't identify any qualities that would appeal to the common Deep Imaskari and inspire them to accept her as the leader of their new surface empire. Ususi could barely lead a band of heroes, much less an apparently prosperous imperial power.
Chessenta was also dull as goats, and what remains of it keeps the one really interesting thing--the annihilation-worshipping psycho-house of Lothcheq (is that right?)--that was ever included in the country, and that still goes with the setting.
The political sphere in Chessenta was far from boring. Various city-states vying for supremacy against one another, while promoting their own identity in their interactions was great. Luthcheq was fun not just because it honored Entropy, but because of its fierce anti-mage policy. The latter has faded over the past century, which is a shame, because that was one of Luthcheq's defining characteristics. I could accept this new Luthcheq with no problem, if it wasn't for the fact that it is now the heart and soul of Chessenta, to the point where the other city-states have effectively ceased to exist. There's no longer a struggle for supremacy, and now the power is solely in the hands of the Karanoks (and Jaxanaedegor, who I can only hope will get some face-time in the future).
While I don't love EVERYTHING about the new FR, imho, it's a dramatic improvement on what came before. It's more dangerous, more exciting, and more diverse.
I personally find the 4E changes to be rather hit-or-miss, to the point where I like the Realms of 1479 DR no more or less than I did in times past (just to clarify, I do love 4E FR, even though I've rejected many of the changes it introduced). I agree that it's more dangerous, but personally it's no more exciting than it was last edition (not to say it's boring, mind you; far from it!), and I'd have to say it's no more diverse than before; even with the RL analogues gone, there are now far too many ruins, and RA's incorporation was far too heavy-handed for my liking. I'm very much enjoying playing in 1479 DR, and I love FR in all its incarnations, but this edition is on an equal level to what's come before it (in my books).
Mulhorond probably wasn't "beyond hope" but Unther was boring (although what could have been done--transforming it into the "Realm of Dead Gilgeam", or something like that, might have saved it), and what replaced Mulhorond (largely--there's still a remnant of the old Mulan order there for an enterprising DM to work with) is actually "fantastic" and far more suited to what the Realms is now.
I have mixed feelings about Tymanther and Imaskar. With regards to the former, I'm actually fond of the idea of a dragonborn kingdom fighting for survival in a harsh land. However, I think its execution was rather poor - the kingdom flattens Unther and adjusts quickly enough to a strange world that doesn't have much of an idea about dragonborn. Tucking it into a corner of the world was a smart move, but I just didn't appreciate the literal crushing of Unther that introduced Tymanther. Personally, I thought it would have been much more interesting if the dragonborn entered Toril via a rift or something along those lines (and not a falling landmass), established some crude sort of territory, invaded Unther, and fought for control of the land with the natives. With Mulhorand around, it could have been a three-way power struggle between the pharoah's troops, the Untherite rebels, and the dragonborn horde. That sort of idea held a lot more promise, at least in my eyes.
Turning to Imaskar, I agree that it holds a lot of promise, and can really enthrall a player/DM. Unfortunately (for me and those who share the opinion), its incorporation is a habit to which the designers (at least some of them) seem to have become attached, and that is the idea that the return of long-lost empires are always viable developments. I'm just not fond of having a thriving, powerful empire disappear under the sands so that a long-dead one can return. On a much lesser note, I'm also not fond of Ususi being Empress. Having read all of Bruce's works, I can't identify any qualities that would appeal to the common Deep Imaskari and inspire them to accept her as the leader of their new surface empire. Ususi could barely lead a band of heroes, much less an apparently prosperous imperial power.
Chessenta was also dull as goats, and what remains of it keeps the one really interesting thing--the annihilation-worshipping psycho-house of Lothcheq (is that right?)--that was ever included in the country, and that still goes with the setting.
The political sphere in Chessenta was far from boring. Various city-states vying for supremacy against one another, while promoting their own identity in their interactions was great. Luthcheq was fun not just because it honored Entropy, but because of its fierce anti-mage policy. The latter has faded over the past century, which is a shame, because that was one of Luthcheq's defining characteristics. I could accept this new Luthcheq with no problem, if it wasn't for the fact that it is now the heart and soul of Chessenta, to the point where the other city-states have effectively ceased to exist. There's no longer a struggle for supremacy, and now the power is solely in the hands of the Karanoks (and Jaxanaedegor, who I can only hope will get some face-time in the future).
While I don't love EVERYTHING about the new FR, imho, it's a dramatic improvement on what came before. It's more dangerous, more exciting, and more diverse.
I personally find the 4E changes to be rather hit-or-miss, to the point where I like the Realms of 1479 DR no more or less than I did in times past (just to clarify, I do love 4E FR, even though I've rejected many of the changes it introduced). I agree that it's more dangerous, but personally it's no more exciting than it was last edition (not to say it's boring, mind you; far from it!), and I'd have to say it's no more diverse than before; even with the RL analogues gone, there are now far too many ruins, and RA's incorporation was far too heavy-handed for my liking. I'm very much enjoying playing in 1479 DR, and I love FR in all its incarnations, but this edition is on an equal level to what's come before it (in my books).
As far as Unther goes, it is simpler, and perhaps more elegant, is to have simply leveled it. It had to go once the decision was made to toss the more blatant RL-analogues. I don't have a big problem with wiping it out, especially considering that the Mulhorondi were already well on their way to eradicating it culturally anyways.
As far as Imaskar's return goes, I kinda like it. Once it was included in the Underdark supplement, it kinda had to re-emerge, and the logical place to do that is in Mulhorond (or that general area). And remember, the landscape is dramatically different here. While it may be a thriving state, Imaskar has some enormous challenges that can really make a campaign click if a DM chooses to develop it--it's underpopulated to hold the territory it does, there are many thousands of Mulan who don't really like the Imaskari, the Dragon-Kings are to the North as is Thay, the alliance with the Dragonborn could fracture, who knows what lurks in those magically uplifted hills... Risen Imaskar a cool place that is worthy of taking up the territory once held by Mulhorond.
Your general point about disliking Resurrected Empires holds, however.
Speaking of Mulhorond itself, I actually think that the Spellplague IMPROVED that country and it's people. What's fascinating to me about Egypt is the enormous monuments, the veneration of death, the longevity of the thing. And that's been emphasised through the remnant people and the priesthood of Thoth that remains. Now the Mulhorondi are dead civilization, but there's those diehards that are refusing to let go... why? I've been thinking that maybe Thoth wasn't entirely sucked into Abeir... that half of him is there and the other half is stuck in some wall in the sanctuary of his temple... he's weak and can't communicate properly, and his priests want him back... it's just something I've been toying around with in my brain.
You can't exactly go grave-robbing Indiana Jones style with a living Mulhorond, with it's powerful priesthoods zealously guarding the ancient tombs of the Living Gods and the Pharoahs.. but now it's Dead Mulhorond, so you can. The Ruins of Skuld are still there, and who knows what the titanic forces that shaped Imaskar's present territory have unearthed?
I don't read the novels, so I have no bias against anyone being Empress or not, but if you think she's incompetent, that only makes Imaskar's situation more dire, despite the appearance of a prospering state, it could really be walking a very thin line between Greatness and Devastation.
And for Chessenta, there are already a ton of places full of competing City-States for a little bit of intrigue. Why did the Realms need another? There's already the Lake of Steam, the WEstern HEartlands, the Border Kingdoms, the Moonsea, the Vast (or whatever it's called these days). The only thing that was ever properly differentiated about Chessenta was that they had bronze weapons (boring!) and that there were these crazy people who worshipped annihilation-spheres (awesome!). So they tossed out what was superfluous and kept what was good.
The new Realms IS more diverse. There are nations of Genasi and Dragonborn, and genies walk the land. the Eladrin are around, tieflings are more prominent, the feywild is a part of the setting, there's all these new religions and secret societies, along with whatever holdouts a DM wishes to insert--a brotherhood of pure-Talosians or a hidden clan of Vhaerunian die-hards can easily be placed into a campaign--from previous editions. Because the new Realms is so sparsely detailed, anyone or anything can show up at any time--the new setting explicitly says that it's possible that player characters survived the Spellplague and were thrown into the future... why not a favorite NPC or cult as well?