-Well, it's not really that simple. Rich Baker told us that he and the other designers have a "secret timeline", where various things are given explanations (like why she's missing wholesale, perhaps). But, of course, it's secret. So, right now, anything on that list that isn't released is apocryphal. But, concerning deities, he said that most of them that aren't listed are out, so...
-That's what Eldath gets for not being more PC-oriented, going by the design principles discussed by the designers...
It's reasonable to assume knowledge of Eldath exists (that is, Eldath's removal from the 4E Realms does not mean she never existed in earlier editions).
Who knows, maybe she's keeping an eye on things in Abeir now.
;)
But if Bane is in charge of war, then war is now evil, moving away from Tempuran philosophy that war was simply part of the natural order of things, just like peace.
Maybe it has something to do with the loss of Tempus (I heard from friend that Bane got war). I remember reading somewhere that Tempus actually protected Eldath, because war would be meaningless without the contrast of peace.
But if Bane is in charge of war, then war is now evil, moving away from Tempuran philosophy that war was simply part of the natural order of things, just like peace.
-Tempus is still around, and 'War' is still his thing (portfolio/sphere/influence/domain/whatever).
Just because they do not appear in the Campaign guide does not mean they are absent from the Realms. Just like the Barbarian, Bard and Monk will be introduced later in the PH2, so can other aspects of the Realms that are missing in the Camapign book.
Who knows, maybe she's keeping an eye on things in Abeir now.
;)
-They sure do need it. Tymanther and Returned Abeir got it easy. Abeir isn't a nice place to visit. ;)
18DELTA
But is it really that important to most FR campaigns that there used to be a goddess of streams and ponds called Eldath?
this happened
As for peace? Well... Pray to Tymora for the good fortune to end conflicts, pray to Sune for love and understanding to take root, or pray to Amaunator to see the new day in a fresh light and put your weapons down.
I figure she is still around even though she may not appear in the books (yet). DDi may ellaborate on where she and other "missing" gods are.
I am not so sure. Rich has said we don't need a deity of springs so I believe she is out
Eldath and Leira were two of my favourite gods from the Realms. I kept Leira alive in my own games, and plan to do the same with Eldath if necessary. It's my game after all.
Well, after living in Swindon, nothing in the world is going to be too tough for you. Terrifying place.
[I grew up in Devizes... mostly]
Well, after living in Swindon, nothing in the world is going to be too tough for you. Terrifying place.
[I grew up in Devizes... mostly]
I'm actually from Canada - my lovely husband dragged me here! But yeah, if I can handle Swindon, I can deal with breaking canon. ;)
this happened
It still makes me cringe
I figure she is still around even though she may not appear in the books (yet). DDi may ellaborate on where she and other "missing" gods are.
-If I'm not mistaken, Eldath was actually used an example by Rich as one of the deities that is "not needed" because of her portfolios.
Indeed... peace and pacifism doesn't really mix well with the "kill critter and take its stuff" philosophy of game design too well. :D
-That'll teach Eldath for being uninteresting to adventurers...
Perhaps Mr. Baker wasn't arguing that she needed to be removed from the setting altogether, but rather that she simply didn't need to be highlighted in the "FR core" material.
-That'll teach Eldath for being uninteresting to adventurers...
What is super-exciting about Chauntea then? Did they give her some new spheres of influence?
I figure any deity not specifically killed off is an Exarch of someone in a similar field of work.
What is super-exciting about Chauntea then? Did they give her some new spheres of influence?
I figure any deity not specifically killed off is an Exarch of someone in a similar field of work.
That's kinda what I was thinking...except of course that they may have also been NON-specifically killed off. :P (Or vanished to Abeir or elsewhere, etc.)
What is super-exciting about Chauntea then? Did they give her some new spheres of influence?
-Chauntea is still there. Being the most powerful deity in the setting, though, I don't really see how they'd be able to minimalize her.
:P
What is super-exciting about Chauntea then? Did they give her some new spheres of influence?
I figure any deity not specifically killed off is an Exarch of someone in a similar field of work.
It is sorta hasrd to remove Chauntea...as accorning to the mythology she is the setting....though I guess they could just retcon no she isn't like soo many time before.
Besides she isn't a goddess of agiculture she is more of a earth mother figure.
Global warming dried up all the small bodies of water...
:P
-Global Warming caused by Shar, of course.
What is super-exciting about Chauntea then? Did they give her some new spheres of influence?
I figure any deity not specifically killed off is an Exarch of someone in a similar field of work.
I see your point, Kouk :P, but I'd guess they looked at it in terms of the practical impact the two goddess' spheres have on people en masse. Meditative stillness by quiet forest pools vs. FOOD.
-Global Warming caused by Shar, of course.
LK, stop. That's not a very nice thing to say. :P-Global Warming caused by Shar, of course.
THE SHADOW GLOBAL WARMING
Wait that doesn't makes sense...would it be global cooling?
THE SHADOW GLOBAL WARMING
Wait that doesn't makes sense...would it be global cooling?
THE SHADOW GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE then?
THE SHADOW GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE then?
So I guess there is a Ozone layer and she made the
THE SHADOW OZONE LAYER
I wonder if that means there is shadow metrologists(sp?) to go along with the Shadow farmers and the shadow potaters...
You know the reason I miss Eldath is because she was the anti-hack n' slash god....I guess we know who they are catering to now
Like I said before, she is probably still in the FR.
Hack'n'Slash has been with D&D since the beginning. Read KOTD (comic). It satires "oldschool gamers" that were pretty much about killing things and looting them. This is not a "youngster" dillema, it is a staple in D&D rpgs for 30 years. It is not new. I repeat it is not new. People like to think it is so they can feel that they play a "superior" form of game than other "lesser" gamers. This is simply not true.
I talked to some older gamers that siad they like their "beer and pretzles" style D&D. I can understand that now as I grow older and have played several games. After a while you stop taking the whole game so seriously and just try and have fun with the damn thing. The funs the thing whether it is hack'n'slash or 12 hour rp sessions. The funs the thing folks. :D
The fragments of the weaves (both Mystra's and Shar's) are keeping the spellplague from dissipating, which causes environmental changes.
/pointless off-topic post directed at Rauric
Heh, I remember playing one time with a 12-year-old cousin of two of the players (brothers). The kid wanted to play a Ninja, cause Ninja's were apparently omnipotent the way the kid talked about them. We told him what weapons the Ninja is proficient in, but he said he ought to be able to use any weapon, since Ninja's are masters of every weapon that's ever even been conceived of. Over the course of the game he got pretty annoying, trying to be all bad-ass, sneaking around like a ninja, trying to backstab the other players and such. So eventually we ended up ganging up on him and beating him up (his character, not the kid, himself). We then stripped his Ninja naked, leaving him unarmed, and ditched him on the side of the road. But not before we cast Light on his face so he couldn't Hide in Shadows anymore. Heh, good times. :D
This happened to a group I was was in but the player was around 25. Age does not dictate gamer foolishness.
Like I said before, she is probably still in the FR.
Hack'n'Slash has been with D&D since the beginning. Read KOTD (comic). It satires "oldschool gamers" that were pretty much about killing things and looting them. This is not a "youngster" dillema, it is a staple in D&D rpgs for 30 years. It is not new. I repeat it is not new. People like to think it is so they can feel that they play a "superior" form of game than other "lesser" gamers. This is simply not true.
I talked to some older gamers that siad they like their "beer and pretzles" style D&D. I can understand that now as I grow older and have played several games. After a while you stop taking the whole game so seriously and just try and have fun with the damn thing. The funs the thing whether it is hack'n'slash or 12 hour rp sessions. The funs the thing folks. :D
Rauric do you actualy read my post at all? I am not saying hack n' slash is anything new...it has been with the game since the start. you are right but that is not even clost to what I am talking about.
1) Eldath is gone...,rather dead or not, who cares she won't be mentioned ever by the official souces( except to mentioned how she died but I doubt they will even do that). Which by the way highly illogical as disasters and constant conflict would probably increase her worshipper base as people will want peace. She would be atleast a goddess in the New Realms.
2) Sure, but Eldath represented another way to play D&D other than hack n' slash. Removing seems to indicate to me that anything other than hack n' slash is beyond the design staff. Now there is not anything wrong with this but there are other ways to play this game which isn't just go kill the monster and get power and cool stuff. While D&D has done it before video games video games do it better I would think if they want to compete with video games shouldn't they atleast highlight the differences and not try to compete in a area they will always be second rate at?(well tell Holographic technologies really improve and becomes cheap).
3) Finaly sure you like to have fun with the game. So do I. You evidently have fun just hack n' slashing. I can have fun with that do...though sometimes I like a little depth because it is fun for me. So why cut her out completely? Why not leave her in( just a line on a chart after all) so it apeals to me as well as you + it apeals to new players who might not like the old hack n' slash. The game definitly appeals more towards one way of playing which I don't see how it can survive.
I am not a old school player or a new school player I am a progressive school player.
She is probably in the world still though.
If gamers that remember her have an imagination (which I hope most do) they will have no problem incorperating her into their games even if she is not in an actual book. Who cares what WOTC does? Do your own thing and have fun. Get distraught about cancer, not an RPG setting.
I can hack and roleplay. Don't ever try and label me John. You have no clue who I am. Roleplaying is not about rules but the people playing the game. Simple as that.
(The big C is a real problem in my family so I realize there are more important things to worry about in life)
SO, because the goddess of peace and tranquility is dead, player's can't play that style of game? Great I'll kill off Kelemvor, that way no one dies in 4e realms. Such a god/goddess is a noble sentiment, but by the rules (of AO and cannon) she would have almost no followers or divine power. Since her true followers are dedicated to non-violence, most would be killed off in a short time, only a few would survive in very stable regions, and they would be easy pickings for street thugs and assassins, since they would not try to fight back. The realms, and all d&d worlds are violent places, where even the residents of the most prosperous and "safe" cities are subject to attacks from monsters. So maybe her church just died out in the last 100 years, it happens in both Fr and RW.
Um...actualy read her belief on viloence then come back. Just because you are a pacifist doesn't mean you won't defend yourself. You will just seek other ways then just attacking.
As a matter of the fact the only way I can think thgat Baldur's gate got the way it did in 4th ed is that Eldath worshippers controled the city as you don't take in refuges when the world is going into hell in a hand basket...except if you are that kind of idealist. Which Eldath worsippers are.
Um...actualy read her belief on viloence then come back. Just because you are a pacifist doesn't mean you won't defend yourself. You will just seek other ways then just attacking.
As a matter of the fact the only way I can think thgat Baldur's gate got the way it did in 4th ed is that Eldath worshippers controled the city as you don't take in refuges when the world is going into hell in a hand basket...except if you are that kind of idealist. Which Eldath worsippers are.
Ok, I will rescind my statement about not fighting back, I just take my cues on Eldath from the RW Jainists, and they are complete pacifists (think tinkers from WoT). Still her religion would not be a good fit for a violent world. As I said, a noble ideal, but not a practical one. I would submit again, her church could have died off from lack of followers.
Ok, ELdath may be mentioned somewhere in another article somewhere down the road. Even if she is not she is probably still considered "alive" and still in the Realms, the designers decided not to include her. I agree wit htheir decision. She is a niche god IMO and only a small niche group of FR fans (online folk) actually cared about her. Casual gamers that played casual games but used the FR as a backdrop probably could care two figs about her. That is why she was not in the book.
She is probably in the world still though.
If gamers that remember her have an imagination (which I hope most do) they will have no problem incorperating her into their games even if she is not in an actual book. Who cares what WOTC does? Do your own thing and have fun. Get distraught about cancer, not an RPG setting.
I can hack and roleplay. Don't ever try and label me John. You have no clue who I am. Roleplaying is not about rules but the people playing the game. Simple as that.
(The big C is a real problem in my family so I realize there are more important things to worry about in life)
I am not distraught...and not really even that upset about it. I worry about alot of other things then a RPG. But this a board dedicated to a RPG bring up things that actualy worry me would be pointless and waaay of topic.
Also lets make a deal I won't label you and you don't label me as some 'old school' gamer who remebers the old days though rose colored glasses. Because nothing is farther then from the truth. I see the game evole up to now...it just took a giant step back in my opinion. That is all this way is just a opinion.
Though RPG are about the rules in part. Especialy the effect on new players. Sure I can do whatever I want as a DM or player and with the right group of players the rules really don't matter...but for new players it is a very different story. If I never had played D&D before now I would probably not ever play it based on 4th edition.
Sure I know not everyone is like me but there are some people out there that are...so why not appeal to people like me and others? Why limit your product soo much when you can sell to more people. It is like coming up with a computer program that can only run on one very specfic computer type. I see a mistake in how they are doing it...and all I am doing is airing a opinion about it. Why because this gets my mind off real problems for a hour or two....Wow you must think I am a real shallow person...
Ok, I will rescind my statement about not fighting back, I just take my cues on Eldath from the RW Jainists, and they are complete pacifists (think tinkers from WoT). Still her religion would not be a good fit for a violent world. As I said, a noble ideal, but not a practical one. I would submit again, her church could have died off from lack of followers.
True I'll allow for that. It could happen. But then again I can see other gods and their faiths just as likely if not more to die off as there is no room for them.
I mean if you are fighting for your life every day I really don't see how you would be happy...yeah you might want to be but you probably want peace too. So why is Lliera still around (a fact by the way that does make me happy) but not Eldath. Or the Realms just got out of the equilvant of a Dark age so why is Ogmah( god of Knowledge) not only is he still around but a greater god. wouldn't knowledge be less important then...(again thinking I have to run my farm and fight off monsters I don't have time to read a book or discover anything new) etc.
So really WotC choices were more along the lines of which gods they wanted to be around and which one had to go. Almost all the gods we could come up for reasons for them to be around or to be removed in a realistic way.
My contentous for removing Eldath has to more with the fact that it limits things. Sure as a experience DM and player I can create the goddess of peace etc., etc. Or don't even need that to play a pacifist character(though I really don't see the point in 4th edition as almost everything deals damage or boost to help others to deal damage, and the other is really sucky healing). I understand that...I am more thinking of a new player reading these books for the first time and having there imagination spark by Eldath goddes of peace. When I first brought FR(it came about the time I was starting to Role-playing then hack n' slash roll-playing) I got many different idea for characters, adventures, and campaign ideas...and as the books came out I got even more. Details are wonderful thing for a game on the creativity and imagination of the players. When I read 4th edition books I get almost nothing. I know my imagination isn't broken because 3rd edition still sparks it.
Anyway rant over. I hope people now atleast understand why I think Eldath was important.
P.S. I realize my previous response to you was a little short and could be construed as rude. If you find it as such I do apologize Rauric got me frustrated.
My contentous for removing Eldath has to more with the fact that it limits things. Sure as a experience DM and player I can create the goddess of peace etc., etc. Or don't even need that to play a pacifist character(though I really don't see the point in 4th edition as almost everything deals damage or boost to help others to deal damage, and the other is really sucky healing). I understand that...I am more thinking of a new player reading these books for the first time and having there imagination spark by Eldath goddes of peace. When I first brought FR(it came about the time I was starting to Role-playing then hack n' slash roll-playing) I got many different idea for characters, adventures, and campaign ideas...and as the books came out I got even more. Details are wonderful thing for a game on the creativity and imagination of the players. When I read 4th edition books I get almost nothing. I know my imagination isn't broken because 3rd edition still sparks it.
As an older player, I have no problem in having her around and don't give a damn if they publish an article tomorrow saying that she got killed by someone. My game; my world.
Two gods which immediately come to mind that a new player could use for devotion to peace are Sune and Chauntea.
Sune is an easy choice in some ways; it's really hard to create and maintain a loving heart and a beautiful world if you're constantly filled with violence and hatred.
Chauntea as a goddess of the earth and agriculture encourages - requires- a settled lifestyle. Her pastoral clerics and paladins can bring to mind the Psalms hope of turning swords into ploughshares, particularly after the upheavals which have shaken their world for the past century. Famine is one of the quickest causes of war.
You yourself mentioned Liira who is another good option as is Ilmater, though neither are described in detail in the FRCG. If a new player were curious, they'd google info on either to get a feel for these, and find enough info to be able to fill 'em out. They may also come on these boards for info and learn about Eldath or other missing gods here.
New players and DMs can manage just as well as us ole 'uns, when we're all driven to use a little imagination and planning.
Sure I know not everyone is like me but there are some people out there that are...so why not appeal to people like me and others? Why limit your product soo much when you can sell to more people. It is like coming up with a computer program that can only run on one very specfic computer type. I see a mistake in how they are doing it...and all I am doing is airing a opinion about it. Why because this gets my mind off real problems for a hour or two....Wow you must think I am a real shallow person...
If they did not appeal to people like yourself they may feel it was not necessary to do so. Perhaps they feel that certain folk are too smal of a market to cater to and perhaps many who feel like yourself will just buy the books anyway due to their compulsury buying habits. I do not know if this is true but this seems like a good reason to me.
As an older player, I have no problem in having her around and don't give a damn if they publish an article tomorrow saying that she got killed by someone. My game; my world.
Two gods which immediately come to mind that a new player could use for devotion to peace are Sune and Chauntea.
Sune is an easy choice in some ways; it's really hard to create and maintain a loving heart and a beautiful world if you're constantly filled with violence and hatred.
Chauntea as a goddess of the earth and agriculture encourages - requires- a settled lifestyle. Her pastoral clerics and paladins can bring to mind the Psalms hope of turning swords into ploughshares, particularly after the upheavals which have shaken their world for the past century. Famine is one of the quickest causes of war.
You yourself mentioned Liira who is another good option as is Ilmater, though neither are described in detail in the FRCG. If a new player were curious, they'd google info on either to get a feel for these, and find enough info to be able to fill 'em out. They may also come on these boards for info and learn about Eldath or other missing gods here.
New players and DMs can manage just as well as us ole 'uns, when we're all driven to use a little imagination and planning.
Wow, great ideas! I was trying to think of who she would be an exarch of but I wasn't sure. I don't think Silvanus is the right fit. I like Sune and Chauntea better, or perhaps even Selune. Sune might be the best fit because of the excellent point you made above, but I might be more partial to Selune since she has no exarchs and tends to have reflecting ponds in her temples.
-The Shadow Ozone Layer...Brilliant.
Thank you
Wow, great ideas! I was trying to think of who she would be an exarch of but I wasn't sure. I don't think Silvanus is the right fit. I like Sune and Chauntea better, or perhaps even Selune. Sune might be the best fit because of the excellent point you made above, but I might be more partial to Selune since she has no exarchs and tends to have reflecting ponds in her temples.
Selune would be an excellent choice as well in reference to her compassion and willingness to help creatures like lycanthropes come to grip with their condition. Thanks for that idea.
I could see Silvanus but I agree with you that he isn't the first choice to come to mind. Still, if it works for someone else, then more power to them.
If they did not appeal to people like yourself they may feel it was not necessary to do so. Perhaps they feel that certain folk are too smal of a market to cater to and perhaps many who feel like yourself will just buy the books anyway due to their compulsury buying habits. I do not know if this is true but this seems like a good reason to me.
I know that is what they are thinking...though it part of it could be that they don't design games that could appeal to me and people like me.
But it is really still a mistake in my opinion. One of the reasons that D&D is the most sucessful RPG in the world is because it appealed to soo many different people. So why move away from being successful?
So mechanicaly how would you guys creat a pacifist cleric? I mean another part of the problem is what the game is geared towards. Even as a old player of the game I am uncomfortable creating new feats, powers, and patragon paths so that mechanics can support concept.
Though I have tried here on this thread:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1076574
I know as a new player they are more unwilling to try.
@Pamela and Marius4:
So mechanicaly how would you guys creat a pacifist cleric? I mean another part of the problem is what the game is geared towards. Even as a old player of the game I am uncomfortable creating new feats, powers, and patragon paths so that mechanics can support concept.
Though I have tried here on this thread:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1076574
I know as a new player they are more unwilling to try.
First of all, bear in mind that a pacifist cleric is going to have to be in a game with a DM willing to work with (if challenge) that player's character, and players who are willing to spend more time talking and trying to come to an understanding with enemies. Doesn't matter what edition you favour; if everyone else is against the idea, you're not going to be able to play a pacificist cleric for any length of time. I remember an online game (3e) where the character (and thus the player) was made to look like an idiot. Neither nice nor pretty but unfortunately a lot of people aren't interested in our kind of game.
With these conditions in mind, use of Diplomacy and other verbal tactics are the first line of action. The game also offers you the option of rendering the aggressor(s)unconscious, if bloodied. This should be the last line of action.
When the talks fail and the cleric has to resort to combat, focus as much as possible on the defensive, healing and dazing spells in the 4e PH (and whatever ones they may introduce in the coming Player's Handbook). As you yourself pointed out in an earlier post here, a pacifist Eldath cleric is permitted self-defense, so a couple of aggressive spells are sadly but necessarily going to be part of the repertoire.
A pacifist cleric would/should also be working with team members that are also looking ways for to sedate/subdue the aggressors. The mage's Sleep spell comes very quickly to mind, as do exploits which daze opponents. The cleric is after all not working in a vacuum (unless it's a solo adventure).
Beyond that, I'm looking forward to seeing new spells introduced in future to fill out the pacifist cleric's repertoire. You may not be satisfied with that, but that's the only answer that I can give you. I don't trust my own ability to come up with balanced feats and spells either.
Knocking Creatures Unconscious
When you reduce a creature to 0 hit points or fewer, you can choose to knock it unconscious rather than kill it. Until it regains hit points, the creature is unconscious but not dying. Any healing makes the creature conscious.
If the creature doesn’t receive any healing, it is restored to 1 hit point and becomes conscious after a short rest.
As the PHB states, "Hit points represent more than physical endurance. They represent your character’s skill, luck, and resolve—all the factors that combine to help you stay alive in a combat situation."
So when creating a Cleric of Eldath, one can focus as much as possible on the non-combat powers. And when it comes to the combat powers, a slight reflavoring would do the trick. Just say they affect those other factors that go into Hit Points, only. Or assume that they do the equivalent of Subdual Damage (I.E. Zapping them with those powers is like shooting someone with a phaser set on stun). Easy enough to do, all around.
Priest of Eldath
1st Level At-Will: Priest’s Shield, Sacred Flame
1st Level Encounter: Cause Fear
1st Level Daily: Guardian of Faith
2nd Level Utility Spell: three good choices – Cure Light Wounds, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith
3rd Level Encounter Spell: Command
5th Level Daily: Rune of Peace (round to negotiate, not to attack the poor sucker)
6th Level Utility: again a few good choices; might talk to the DM to see if they’d permit Holy Lantern’s Insight bonus be used to figure out a good way to aid in bringing about a truce
7th Level Encounter: Immobilise
9th Level Daily: Astral Defenders
This is just a quick glance through the PH. I'd have to put it into action to see if it worked out satisfactorily. Still, whatever the spells, the focus would be on a willingness to arrange a truce throughout, and not letting bloodlust get to the cleric's head. If no truce, then as I've mentioned already, render them unconscious, tie 'em up and then talk.
I know that is what they are thinking...though it part of it could be that they don't design games that could appeal to me and people like me.
But it is really still a mistake in my opinion. One of the reasons that D&D is the most sucessful RPG in the world is because it appealed to soo many different people. So why move away from being successful?
Maybe because they made 4E to appeal to a wider group, and wanted 4E FR to appeal to a wider group as well not just .... *certain fans* that needed everything from the past to remain the same. There is nothing wrong with wanting things they like to reamin the same but those things may have been keeping a broader audience a way.
In a few years I think that you will see things you missed show up in the new books or articles. I think this was done to hook new people with the less is more feeling that older players will buy the books just for curiosities sake.
*
In story/mechanical wise, i can see Eldath as a exarch type of character to one of the nature gods. I intend to use her in my campaigns as more of a "Lady of the Lake" sort of figure. Not a popular goddess over all but she probably still has a small influence in one of the FR regions where people still worship her. She more of that sylvan, old school forgotten fey goddess that no one talks about any more.
Ideas you could use for her would be:
- ancient sites (usually pools) of power that confer some sort of sanctuary/protection/healing etc. Probably stuff im going to rip from the old 2e Celtic Campaign handbook (excellent section on magical pools).
- guardianship over a magic item that will bring peace to a region inflicted with strife and conflict.
- one of her pools is the only known form of cure for a ravaging disease/curse, etc that the PCs must go out and quest after.
- a region protected by Eldath is untouched by the ravages of time or the spell plague, where the PCs accidently discover a hidden community.
just some ideas to share ;)
Selune would be an excellent choice as well in reference to her compassion and willingness to help creatures like lycanthropes come to grip with their condition. Thanks for that idea.
I could see Silvanus but I agree with you that he isn't the first choice to come to mind. Still, if it works for someone else, then more power to them.
Anyway I went w/ a different direction with preserving Eldath...and I fixed a problem I had with Baldur's gate.
I posted it on another thread here is the link I would like people's opinions...
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=16686927&posted=1#post16686927