Bladesinger
Battlerager
(Red Wizard?)
Zhentarim Spy
Netherese Shadow Mage (more suitable with shadow power source?)
Purple Dragon Knight
War Wizard of Cormyr (with Swordmage origin?)
Harper Agent
Wychlaran (Do they survive?)
Knight of Myth Drannor
With the new material originated by the Spellplague:
Master of elements (more suitable with elemental power source?)
Spellmarked (sp?) master
Well, I'm not able to think anymore.
Teflamm Shadowmasters
Runescarred Berserker
Talonan Blightlord
Elven Highmage
Magehound
Feywild Scout
So I can eventually look like all those old folks down in Florida....
I want more general paragon paths and epic destinies for the core setting. That there were only four EDs in the PHB was tremendously disappointing for me.
Those will come with the Power books, such as Martial Power. I can assume Divine Power and Arcane Power are coming soon
I hear Martial Power will give the Ranger his Animal Companion back. Hopefully Divine Power will give the Paladin his Special Mount back. I want my dire lion, damn it! :P Just hope Divine Power comes out soon. Although with just the two divine classes so far, I'm not optimistic on that score (Martial Power was an easy choice for them, as they've already released pretty much all the Martial classes they're going to release. There may be a Martial Controller, but I doubt it. Besides, how could you possibly make a Martial Controller, because making it some kind of Artificer type? Well, the Artificer comes out next month on DDI, so we'll see if it's A) a Controller, and B) if it's even Martial).
Martial controller = Swashbuckler ?
As I said, pretty much the only way I can envisage a Martial Controller is if it were an Artificer of some type. And something like that delves WAY to far into the area of steampunk and stuff.
Remember, a Controller has to do the same job as a Wizard. I.E. Hurt a large number of enemies as well as hinder them in some way. Of course, only having one Controller class to look at, who knows how far that role can be stretched. But given that the other classes mentioned for the Controller role (like Sorcerer), apparently don't work all that differently, I doubt it's possible to make any Martial Controller.
As I said, pretty much the only way I can envisage a Martial Controller is if it were an Artificer of some type. And something like that delves WAY to far into the area of steampunk and stuff.
I suppose a swashbuckler or skirmisher could engage through speed several enemies at once
Thayan Knight
Cavalier (done right this time)
frenzied berserker
shadow adept
bear warrior
blackguard
and
assassin
Plus divine channeling feats reguarding different deities like in the PH
and a new one for Amauntor, somesuch like...
Amauntor Sunblazer
Oh and one for lolth obviously. and lastly..
Changeland Guide
Those will come with the Power books, such as Martial Power. I can assume Divine Power and Arcane Power are coming soon
Well, I hope so! I'll probably pick those books up.
What's an Artificer? I've read about it before, but can't remember what it's about.
An artificer is a creator of magic items. Made a class in Eberron. Don't see the need now, since magic item creation comes down to a single ritual. However they did have the ability to use items better than normal, so maybe on that basis. Sort of like the Artifact Master epic destiny they had in a preview for 4e.
And of course get a bonus to Arcana for Enchant Item ritual
Well, I hope so! I'll probably pick those books up.
Well, they have announced that Arcane Power is coming out in April 09, a month after the Player's handbook 2
Speaking of assassins, I think it'd be sweet if the Assassin class made a comeback. It'd make for a great Shadow Striker.
Talking about iconic prestige classes, what about arcane archer, dwarven defender, loremaster, blackguard (Diffan mentioned it), mystic theurge, dragon disciple?
I'd like to see a Sage, the classic know-it-all of the Realms. It's probably the same as Loremaster though.
And anything that's backwards-compatible with the Classic Realms.
Talking about iconic prestige classes, what about arcane archer, dwarven defender, loremaster, blackguard (Diffan mentioned it), mystic theurge, dragon disciple?
Yeah but i would love the assassin base class
Arcane Archer: Arcane Striker/Controller Hybrid or Paragon Path for elves.
Assassin: Shadow Striker or Paragon Path for rogues.
Blackguard: Shadow Defender or Paragon Path for paladins.
Dragon Disciple*: Primal Striker or Paragon Path for sorcerers.
Dwarven Defender: Paragon Path for dwarves.
Loremaster: Arcane Leader or Paragon Path for wizards.
Mystic Theurge: Divine Controller (or Arcane Leader ;) ?).
* Don't expect to see this, with the dragonborn they have an excuse to not release it.
I suppose a swashbuckler or skirmisher could engage through speed several enemies at once
or maybe a good re-thinking of the monk class... ever seen Kung-fu-hustle...imagine the guy with the long staff keeping all of the enimies at bay and knocking a few out at the same time.
or maybe a good re-thinking of the monk class... ever seen Kung-fu-hustle...imagine the guy with the long staff keeping all of the enimies at bay and knocking a few out at the same time.
not bad
or maybe a good re-thinking of the monk class... ever seen Kung-fu-hustle...imagine the guy with the long staff keeping all of the enimies at bay and knocking a few out at the same time.
What a great film! How did I laugh! :D
Well, I think there's a difference between a martial artist (eegh! bad name) and a swashbuckler, not concerning fighting style, but all the other. Monks would have a great improve if they not only rely on unarmed combat (though I expect them to have it), but their utilities and some of their attacks should be based on Wisdom, while a Swashbuckler's utilities should be based on Intelligence (it will probably be a paragon path for rogues
).And let's not talk about skills.
Well, they have announced that Arcane Power is coming out in April 09, a month after the Player's handbook 2
Great!
"PP",
.Great!
"PP",
What's so funny?
anyways no *ahem* "PPs" for me ;)
-Now, I hate to be the one to ask, but are PPs going to have long progressions?
I don't know about you but mine sure does
-Now, I hate to be the one to ask, but are PPs going to have long progressions? And, does taking an "Epic Destiny" towards the end of taking a Paragon Path cut the end tip of the PP off?
A Paragon Path is effectively a number of special features gained at 11 and 16 plus 3 powers (one encounter, one daily, one utility).
An Epic Destiny gives class features at level 21, 24, 30 and a utility power.
They do not interact in any way.
A Paragon Path is effectively a number of special features gained at 11 and 16 plus 3 powers (one encounter, one daily, one utility).
An Epic Destiny gives class features at level 21, 24, 30 and a utility power.
They do not interact in any way.
-So, what you are saying is that PPs don't have to worry about ED. Very good.
A Paragon Path is effectively a number of special features gained at 11 and 16 plus 3 powers (one encounter, one daily, one utility).
An Epic Destiny gives class features at level 21, 24, 30 and a utility power.
They do not interact in any way.
You thought he was being serious?
You thought he was being serious?
I am oblivious to innuendo by default. I find it liberating.
Here's my first shot at creating a Paragon Path for 4th. It's still in rough draft phase, so nothing set in stone. I need your opinions on balancing issues as well as flavor. Here it goes-
CAVALIER
“For the glory of battle, Charge!”
Prerequisite: Fighter class or Paladin class, Mounted Combat Feat, proficiency with military weapons
You represent the ultimate in combat warfare. Your charge is among the most devastating weapons any culture can hope to field. Often you command from your steed in open battle against your enemies and charge first into the fray with valor and steel. Your combat skills rely heavily on mobility, harrying your opponents with quick passes through their lines to scatter their defense. When room restricts your movement, you charge into their ranks and hack at them from your mighty mount, giving you an advantage against lower adversaries.
CAVALIER PATH FEATURES
Mounted Weapon Bonus (11th level): You gain a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using a polearm or heavy blade while mounted.
Cavalier’s Action (11th level): When you spend an action point to make an additional attack and if your mounted, your mount can also make a basic melee attack against an adjacent opponent to you.
Cavalier’s Bond (16th level): When you are mounted, you cannot be immobilized and you and your mount receive a +1 bonus to saving throws.
CAVALIER POWERS
Ride-by-Attack; Cavalier Attack 11
You ride into the thicket of your enemies, attacking as you pass through.
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action; Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be mounted.
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage
Effect: Your mount may take a standard action as an immediate reaction.
Healing Bond; Cavalier Utility 12
The healing you receive flows through your body and your mount gains health through the bond you share.
Encounter * Divine, Healing
Requirement: You must be mounted.
Immediate Reaction; Melee touch
Trigger: You spend a healing surge
Effect: Your mount regains hit points as as if it had spent a healing surge.
Unstoppable Charge; Cavalier Attack 20
You charge into the ranks of your enemy with such valor and force that nothing can stand in your way.
Daily * Martial, Reliable, Weapon
Standard Action; Melee Weapon
Requirement: You must be mounted.
Special: Move your speed as part of Unstoppable Charge
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you knock the target prone.
Effect: You make a secondary attack against the target and shift 2 squares.
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Tell me what you guys think, thanks!
Hey all,
Here's my first shot at creating a Paragon Path for 4th. It's still in rough draft phase, so nothing set in stone. I need your opinions on balancing issues as well as flavor. Here it goes-
CAVALIER
“For the glory of battle, Charge!”
Prerequisite: Fighter class or Paladin class, Mounted Combat Feat, proficiency with military weapons
You represent the ultimate in combat warfare. Your charge is among the most devastating weapons any culture can hope to field. Often you command from your steed in open battle against your enemies and charge first into the fray with valor and steel. Your combat skills rely heavily on mobility, harrying your opponents with quick passes through their lines to scatter their defense. When room restricts your movement, you charge into their ranks and hack at them from your mighty mount, giving you an advantage against lower adversaries.
CAVALIER PATH FEATURES
Mounted Weapon Bonus (11th level): You gain a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using a polearm or heavy blade while mounted.
Cavalier’s Action (11th level): When you spend an action point to make an additional attack and if your mounted, your mount can also make a basic melee attack against an adjacent opponent to you.
Cavalier’s Bond (16th level): When you are mounted, you cannot be immobilized and you and your mount receive a +1 bonus to saving throws.
CAVALIER POWERS
Ride-by-Attack; Cavalier Attack 11
You ride into the thicket of your enemies, attacking as you pass through but not giving them the time to counter-attack
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action; Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2 [W] + Strength modifier damage
Special: This power can be used in junction with a mount's trample ability (if it has that type of attack) but does not provoke opportuinity attacks.
Healing Bond; Cavalier Utility 12
The healing you receive flows through your body and your mount gains health through the bond you share.
Encounter * Healing
Standard Action; Melee touch
Target: You
Effect: For the remainder of the encounter, when you spend a healing surge your mount regains hit points or temporary hit points equal to half your healing surge value + Charisma modifier.
Unstoppable Charge; Cavalier Attack 20
You charge into the ranks of your enemy with such valor and force that nothing can stand in your way.
Daily * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action; Melee Weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 3 [W] + Strength modifier damage x 2 , and you knock the target prone giving you and your the ability to make an additional basic melee attack. You may then move the rest of the distance in a straight line without creating opportunity attacks.
Tell me what you guys think, thanks!
Nice concept but maybe:
Ride-by-Attack; Cavalier Attack 11
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action; Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be mounted.
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage
Effect: Your mount may take a standard action as an immediate reaction.
Healing Bond; Cavalier Utility 12
Encounter * Divine, Healing
Requirement: You must be mounted.
Immediate Reaction; Melee touch
Trigger:You spend a healing surge
Effect: Your mount regains hit points as as if it had spent a healing surge.
and
Unstoppable Charge; Cavalier Attack 20
Daily * Martial, Reliable, Weapon
Standard Action; Melee Weapon
Requirement: You must be mounted.
Special: Move your speed as part of Unstoppable Charge
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you knock the target prone.
Effect: You make a secondary attack against the target and shift 2 squares.
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.
or maybe you should put the Cavalier in its own thread so people can find it quickly
very nice work
Diffan, perhaps we should have a thread with your paragon paths
or maybe you should put the Cavalier in its own thread so people can find it quickly
very nice work
-Probably. A good idea, a thread to show everyone your PP.
-Ugh, once I start, I can't stop.
This PP business is going to cause much lament.
-I will do my best to perpetuate PP jokes as long as possible. :D
Wonderful.
I know! I never go adventuring w/o lube and my "Dagger" (+5 merciful ) ;)
man o man, I thought I was juvenile
Well you still are if it makes you feel better :D
-Anyway, from seeing Diffan's example, these Paragon Paths don't particularly impress me. They seem more like substitution levels, than Prestige Classes.
He still is a bit overpowered. And what I feel is most problematic is that he feels more like a striker than a defender. Though the prone effects help.
Overpowered in what way? Also, he could easily stand in the way of enemies and hack at them from on top of his mount thus making him a good defender.
-Anyway, from seeing Diffan's example, these Paragon Paths don't particularly impress me. They seem more like substitution levels, than Prestige Classes.
I don't think the intention was to deviate much from the base class as Prestige Classes definitly did. It keeps the general feel of the base class with added abilities that fit the "flavor" of the character you want to play. The fact that they all fit into a particular format adds to the paragon path's balance between all classes as well.
I don't think the intention was to deviate much from the base class as Prestige Classes definitly did. It keeps the general feel of the base class with added abilities that fit the "flavor" of the character you want to play. The fact that they all fit into a particular format adds to the paragon path's balance between all classes as well.
-Hence why I said substitution levels. When I first found out what these Paragon Paths were, they were likened to Prestige Classes. Substitution levels is much more accurate.
-Hence why I said substitution levels. When I first found out what these Paragon Paths were, they were likened to Prestige Classes. Substitution levels is much more accurate.
Though the good thing about PPs (stop snickering) is that your not substituting anything about the class. It's all added bonuses and flavor and could work really well when you take appropriate multiclass feats.
-The good thing about PPs...
*sigh*
-The good thing about PPs...
heh heh .... pp....thats funny
Though the good thing about PPs (stop snickering) is that your not substituting anything about the class. It's all added bonuses and flavor and could work really well when you take appropriate multiclass feats.
I do like the concept, although PPs must be at 10th level right?
You get a Paragon Path at 11th level and an Epic Destiny at 21st level.
I'm not sure I like the 11th level deal. I was found getting a PrC around 7/8th level area to be the best spot.
I'm not sure I like the 11th level deal. I was found getting a PrC around 7/8th level area to be the best spot.
The idea was to spread out the playable levels though. Liken it to school, you go to High school (heroic tier), college (paragon tier) and then graduate school (epic tier). They aren't substitution levels, just added bonuses you get for specialization of skills. You can also choose another classes powers if you want instead of PP to make more of a multiclass character.
-"PPs (Paragon Paths) don't have to worry about ED (Epic Destinies)"...Man, that was a classic.
I'm going to suggest abbreviating Paragon Paths to PrPs so there's no more confusion. And the same should go for Epic Destinies or EpDs as well.......children....
I'm going to suggest abbreviating Paragon Paths to PrPs so there's no more confusion. And the same should go for Epic Destinies or EpDs as well.......children....
Agreed.
And Diffan, thank you for sharing.
:D
I'm going to suggest abbreviating Paragon Paths to PrPs so there's no more confusion. And the same should go for Epic Destinies or EpDs as well.......children....
-It's too late for that. The seed has been planted for comic hyjinks forevermore. ;)
I'm going to suggest abbreviating Paragon Paths to PrPs so there's no more confusion. And the same should go for Epic Destinies or EpDs as well.......children....
killjoy
killjoy
darn straight. I'd drop a nuke on it if I could................:evillaugh
going back on topic,
I'd also like to see how they're going to do summoners and if there might be a base class for one. Other prestige classes turned PrP might include Arcane Devotees and maybe a Zhent Mercenary path as well.
darn straight. I'd drop a nuke on it if I could................:evillaugh
going back on topic,
I'd also like to see how they're going to do summoners and if there might be a base class for one. Other prestige classes turned PrP might include Arcane Devotees and maybe a Zhent Mercenary path as well.
-I don't know, I never liked the Zhent Assassin PrC (or whatever it was called. Zhent Agent?). The Zhents certainly are PPs, but I don't think they deserve PPs.
darn straight. I'd drop a nuke on it if I could................:evillaugh
going back on topic,
I'd also like to see how they're going to do summoners and if there might be a base class for one. Other prestige classes turned PrP might include Arcane Devotees and maybe a Zhent Mercenary path as well.
you should start a fresh thread on any PrP you devise my friend, or a thread just for them. Start with that cool Cavalier
you should start a fresh thread on any PrP you devise my friend, or a thread just for them. Start with that cool Cavalier
-As I already said, agreed. No need to keep it "hidden" here. It's even kind of off-topic for this thread. ;)
-As I already said, agreed. No need to keep it "hidden" here. It's even kind of off-topic for this thread. ;)
He listed to us. With our powers combined we are unstoppable. Ahaa haha haha HAHA AHAHAH HAHAH AA *cough cough*
Though the good thing about PPs (stop snickering) is that your not substituting anything about the class. It's all added bonuses and flavor and could work really well when you take appropriate multiclass feats.
Yeah, that's exactly what I like about PPs, myself!:D
I'm going to suggest abbreviating Paragon Paths to PrPs so there's no more confusion. And the same should go for Epic Destinies or EpDs as well.......children....
I saw the term "PP" being used all over the CO boards.
I saw the term "PP" being used all over the CO boards.
well, guess there's no use then............. :surrenderYeah, that's exactly what I like about PPs, myself!:D
interesting
So Zhents and Red Wizards may not get PrPs.
-They probably will, just because of who they are.
Red Wizards? The orders should now be completely defunct. There are a few scattered Red Wizards on the Wizard's Coast who may still have some control of their enclaves or not but they are hardly the force they used to be.
why is that?
Red Wizards? The orders should now be completely defunct. There are a few scattered Red Wizards on the Wizard's Coast who may still have some control of their enclaves or not but they are hardly the force they used to be.
-That's doesn't really resemble what the preview article alluded to. If anything, Thay- and by proxy, the Red Wizards- is more powerful than every with Szass Tam as the sole ruler.
I meant the Red Wizards as a prestige class. The new Thay is not likely to continue on the traditions of Zulkirs and schools (especially since schools are defunct). So no need for a PrP. They are just wizards or necromancers in Thay these days.
but the Red Wizard may be a paragon path for wizards in the new Thay as they continue to try to dominate the world
Well the Red Wizards are evil so they are antagonists so they are NPCs so they do not need PrPs. They are custom crafted by the DM.
What about evil campaigns?
Or maybe a 'Batwatch' Path, so I can swim like Aquaman and save lives in a cute red speedo.
;) :P
What about evil campaigns?
-The 4e books, like the 3e books. give you the ability to play evil campaigns, but say, as an afterthought, "Oh, yeah, you should always be a good guy."
-The 4e books, like the 3e books. give you the ability to play evil campaigns, but say, as an afterthought, "Oh, yeah, you should always be a good guy."
Thats all well and good, but they will put "evil" PPs out there for that purpose as well for the DM's NPC needs
-Evil PPs...Uh oh...
-The 4e books, like the 3e books. give you the ability to play evil campaigns, but say, as an afterthought, "Oh, yeah, you should always be a good guy."
Actually 4e player's handbook, is very geared towards good campaigns, or unaligned at most. They say as much in the DMG in the npc portion, how to change cleric and paladin prayers to reflect evil gods more. This may, and will probably, change as new books are released. But for the moment, they are pushing the be a hero aspect of the game. For example, no necromancy spells, and few summoning spells. So no bringing undead or demons to the battle by the players yet. And they are very clear that npcs are created like monsters, not characters. This doesn't mean you can't, only that it serves no real purpose to build a character just to give the players someone to chase and kill. Give them the abilities they need for an encounter with the players and that is the most you have to do. I like this, it's not like you actually roleplay the day to day life of your villains and need to know what noncombat powers they have.
(It's fun making these, especially the powers;) )So people which PrPs would you like to see? I've given the bladesinger and the silverstar a shot so far, and I am taking requests
How about the Peereless Archer?
How about the Peereless Archer?
Nah the Battlefield Archer is in the PHB and very decent, no need for another one.
Nah the Battlefield Archer is in the PHB and very decent, no need for another one.
Didn't know. Fair enough
How about the Windwalker
Didn't know. Fair enough
How about the Windwalker
That was Shaundakul's specialty priest? 4E takes a very dim view of mobility (and the windwalker was way OP to begin with). I could give it a try but it would be quite dissimilar.
That was Shaundakul's specialty priest?
yup. You are confusing me with these 2 threads now
Hehe no, I was just directing people's attention. I made the sniper btw. I will think on the windwalker.
How about the Hunter of the Dead, I know its not FR specific but....
I was considering the Doomguide already (I like Kelemvor a lot). But I need to sleep, so tomorrow.
sleep? now? this is an outrage!
I was considering the Doomguide already (I like Kelemvor a lot). But I need to sleep, so tomorrow.
Here is your assigment for PPs
Nightcloak
Doomguide
Court Herald
Vengance Knight
Knight Errant of Silverymoon
Spellguard of Silverymoon
Sunmaster
Morninglord
Runecaster
Magehound
Black Blood Hunter
Black Blood Cultist
Spur Lord
Hathran
Harper Scout
Knight of the Blue Moon
I expect these by the end of the day
-Whoa...
too much ya think?
If I recover from the horror of the Amn article maybe I will make something for FR. Till then I think I'll migrate my creativity to Eberron.
what Amn article?
and the Monsters in Murann
-Didn't read it. Anyone care to provide highlights on MT's 4e FAQ thread?
did you read it yet?
did you read it yet?
-Yeah, I read the text that Delta copied and provided.
I'm still waiting for the Vengance Knight
-I know a character waiting to kill a Vengeance Knight, so close enough.
-I know a character waiting to kill a Vengeance Knight, so close enough.
would that be Crazy Ali
If I recover from the horror of the Amn article maybe I will make something for FR. Till then I think I'll migrate my creativity to Eberron.
why not make it for non-specific setting and we can adapt it anyway or setting we want? I mean, i'm sure anyone can place Bladesingers in Eberron or even a harper-ish organization as well.
would that be Crazy Ali
-No, though he would by proxy.
why not make it for non-specific setting and we can adapt it anyway or setting we want? I mean, i'm sure anyone can place Bladesingers in Eberron or even a harper-ish organization as well.
-Thats, supposedly, what people do.