Of course, I'm not a total hypocrite, I think Greenwood and his Elmister character are highly overrated as well with some of the most classic magical cliches and "playboy fantasies" in the D&D-verse. I like Drizz't and Elmister as light reads, but nothing I could sink into my teeth into for long periods of time.
A Drizz't video game would be worth a few bucks though, I'll toast too that!
Also, I think the Drizzt haters are just louder. The majority of the "not a drizzt fan" crowd (myself included) seems to think he's a fine character but Salvatore has dominated FR novels so hard that we're getting sick of it. My favorites are series like the Avatar Series or the Unclean/Undead/Unholy run wherein politics and lore involving people very key to the realms progress changes.
Edit: its not that I hate drizzt, I like him. I just hate Drizzt fans because they're brought in as fanboys, don't understand that rolling a drow w 2 scimitars in a D&D game has BEEN DONE BEFORE and believe they understand forgotten realms lore when all they know is one, not that key, character.
I actually liked him at first, but man that guy gets old fast. He's like Benny Hill, fine in small doses.
Blasphemer!
Benny Hill is always fine!!
;)
I'm sorry, I can only watch that guy run around being beat in the head by an umbrella to kazoo music for so long.
he had Drizzt teach some kids how to say his name in the first novel of the second trilogy (it's Drits btw)
Drits? That makes little to no sense. Although I suppose it's a vain hope that spelling would have something to do with pronunciation.
I hate Drizzt.
Well, maybe not hate, but I am sick to death of hearing about him and how uber-cool and powerful he is.
That's weird. Because the impression I get from here and just about everywhere else on the web is that Drizzt is despised. The Drizzt and Salavatore bashers are so vocal and numerous now that I feel like I'm in the minority for being a fan.
(Same with Bruce Cordell. From what I read on these forums, I could swear I'm just about the only one who likes his work.)
I hate Drizzt.
Well, maybe not hate, but I am sick to death of hearing about him and how uber-cool and powerful he is.
I just realised "death" is an anagram of "hated." Coincidence? Or Are you really The_DEATH?
(Same with Bruce Cordell. From what I read on these forums, I could swear I'm just about the only one who likes his work.)
Then cower in rejection and isolation no further my friend, for I am a liker of Bruce Cordell and his work. Not an immense fan, but more so then I would Salvatore or Greenwood. I prefer Greenwood for his non-D&D based works though, I will admit.
Got in early during 2nd ed when we were gaming hard. Dark Elf trilogy is what did it. I mean, Icewind Dale had been out and it was good, but formulaic; "motely band of adventurer's" (despite cliches of old gruff dwarf, stoic honor-bound Brb, token versatile female, and the brooding exotic).
Then, next...it (DrkElf tril) hadn't been done before. Plenty have read like your typical campaign party, but no one really went off the beaten path to flesh out a totally alien and complex society (drow). Best Seller List is more telling than I am on the end game of that.
After that, well, they saw the cash cow and ran it into the dirt. This, IMO, is why Drizzt got so played out, though the "emo" moniker is for the birds. Kid's stuff. Legitimate angle to play (write), but after so long, well...
I wish they would keep w/ that "let's try something different" approach as most fantasy comes off largely the same. Why not one on a sentient undead (don't say Tamm, gimmicky)? A 1/2 orc go-between from his 2 cultures? Sharryan or Chultan tribesmen in their colorful backdrop? There's so much material to work w/, but so much comes out like adventurer band 'x' and their heroic exploits in land 'y' w/ generic character development and some epic struggle.
I also don't like Bruce Cordell's stuff for the most part, so I guess I'm quite mainstream...
Some people, and I think this is especially common among the geek tribes, feel the need to hate anything that is popular. I honestly just want a Drizz't video game. I mean that would be so bad ass.
While not devoted to him, Drizzt makes an appearance in the original Baluder's Gate video game. You can attack him, but about the only way to defeat him is if you go to that particular area as one of your last actions in the game, and even then it will be very hard to kill him. If you kill him at any other time of the game he will clean your clocks in short order.
While not devoted to him, Drizzt makes an appearance in the original Baluder's Gate video game. You can attack him, but about the only way to defeat him is if you go to that particular area as one of your last actions in the game, and even then it will be very hard to kill him. If you kill him at any other time of the game he will clean your clocks in short order.
And in the sequel there was a short segment where you could ally with him to hunt vampires.
So it isn't just Drizzt that I do not like.
He's uninteresting and unrealistical. There's so much that could have been done with the concept of a good drow but instead Salvatore chose to make him a black-skinned aasimar. He's born with violet eyes, is always good and only survives because he was born to be a kickass two-weapon fighter. He's abused by his family (except for his father who gets killed for him and later commits suicide for him, tragic^2) and the other races don't want him either because he's a drow or because they fear that other drow could come for him and target them too. Drizzt is an eternal victim that can shred through enemies with twin-sabers. And the worst part is: People don't recognise it. There seem to be thousands of people who play clones that are even blander than that. Horrible. And now Drizzt is supposed to be the stereotypical good outcast drow. Especially after they killed off Eilistraee.
But I ramble. I enjoy Drizzt and am tempted to read some of Salvatore's other material because of it.
While not devoted to him, Drizzt makes an appearance in the original Baluder's Gate video game. You can attack him, but about the only way to defeat him is if you go to that particular area as one of your last actions in the game, and even then it will be very hard to kill him. If you kill him at any other time of the game he will clean your clocks in short order.
I'm pretty sure that if you did kill him you would later be confronted by someone or other (I can't remember the name) that demanded all the gear back. I suppose if you did this close enough to the end of the game that event wouldn't have time to trigger.
Or I might be thinking of Baldur's Gate II. All I remember for sure is that in one of the games if you killed him and took his stuff that someone would show up later and demand it back, and you weren't allowed to kill them.
Overall I do not think Drizzt is the best character ever written (I personally think Thibbledorf Pwent is a better-written character), and I do not think Salvatore the best writer out there, but to me he tells an engaging story that allows me to immerse myself into a fantasy world and to forget about the real world around me. And when I read D&D novels that is exactly what I am looking for. I am not looking for a Steinbeck or Dickens. Nor am I looking for a War and Peace or The Lord of the Rings. I am looking for an entertaining diversion. And if that diversion happens to be a bit of a whiner and a bit clichéd (though I have never really seen anyone present a list of characters and a convincing enough argument to convince me that Drizzt is over-clicheéd) and the writing not of a Pulitzer Prize nature, I do not mind. Again, that is not what I am looking for when I read a D&D novel. I am looking for someplace to go, and Salvatore certainly takes me there.
(Same with Bruce Cordell. From what I read on these forums, I could swear I'm just about the only one who likes his work.)
That's because he's the guy with his name on the cover of the psionics stuff and psionics is the red headed stepchild of the dnd magic system. Personaly, I think the only 'bad' book he made was Complete Psionic, which seems like it suffered from a great deal of executive meddling.
While not devoted to him, Drizzt makes an appearance in the original Baluder's Gate video game. You can attack him, but about the only way to defeat him is if you go to that particular area as one of your last actions in the game, and even then it will be very hard to kill him. If you kill him at any other time of the game he will clean your clocks in short order.
You sir need to fight smarter, not harder. Go into the options, drop the NPC pathfinding node as low as it'll go then hop over to the little peninsula in the lake on that map and pummel him with ranged stuff while he stands at the edge of the lake trying to figure out how to get to you. Tada, free badass weapons that'll last you halfway through the sequel.
@ white sorcerer, yeah Drits makes no sense, I didn't believe it when I read it in Icewind Dale (as I'm fairly certain every other Drizzt reader just ignores that paragraph) and went and looked up an interview with Salvatore on Youtube. Sure enough it's pronounced Drits.
You sir need to fight smarter, not harder. Go into the options, drop the NPC pathfinding node as low as it'll go then hop over to the little peninsula in the lake on that map and pummel him with ranged stuff while he stands at the edge of the lake trying to figure out how to get to you. Tada, free badass weapons that'll last you halfway through the sequel.
To me that is cheating. :D
To me that is cheating. :D
No making the final bossfight include a lvl 17 fighter using the unholy armor of Bhaal with like 5 lackies of your level is cheating. (though yeah I didn't pull that **** till my third time through the game). Not cheating if it doesn't use the console command.
I think the main reason I hate Drizzt has to do with my hatred for Batman. Both characters have this tragic past that seems to have forged them into a super powered invulnerable god. Also much like Batman Drizzt almost always wins or if he does lose its do to godly intervention. To me its a character that wins solely based on the writer wanting him to win rather than any real ability. This and a general distaste for drow and more broadly elves leads me to hate the Drizzt character.
Of course the characters I do like in books and comics tend to die ;)
That's weird. Because the impression I get from here and just about everywhere else on the web is that Drizzt is despised.
He is, the Drizzt haters just don't like to face the fact that they have little to complain about any more. Basically, Drizzt started out as a popular character. Then his fame and popularity rose, and too many people were constantly praising Drizzt and playing Drizzt clones, so a lot of other people started to hate him. Then the hype died down, most of the Drizzt clones disappeared, and Drizzt was again nothing but a rather popular character. But the Drizzt haters couldn't get over themselves,their anti-Drizzt rants had become like a second nature, leading them to completely ignore the actual circumstances, and simply continue ranting.
It's the same principle as with the alleged millions of elven sub races. People complain to complain, because openly hating some random phenomenon (even if you've largely invented it yourself) is funnier than leaving others in peace to like what they want.
I just finished reading the Sellswords trilogy and looked up Jarlaxle's stats on a whim, which led me to Entreri, which lead me to Drizz't. When looking at some of the comments on Drizz't I noticed he gets a lot of hate. Why is this? While I'm not an OMIGOSH fanboi, I like Drizz't. I've always found him to be insightful, wise, and able to cut bread a billion different ways in thirty seconds. Certainly not an 'emofag'.
"oh no, I'm being forced to have sex with beautiful women that I find attractive.. no the horror"
I think that's more or less why Drizzt is perceived as stupid and lame.
My personal problem with Drizzt has more to do with the fact that the more recent novels seem to be trying to give a Moral At The End Of The Story kind of thing, and that frankly because of him, a race that has no business being a Player Race *seriously... tying Drow into a story unless you change how Drow work is stupidly hard* became one.
And that whole "I'll play a Drow who is different cause he's not evil!" or the opposite. "Drow are hawtz cause they are evilz! I must play one!"
and that frankly because of him, a race that has no business being a Player Race *seriously... tying Drow into a story unless you change how Drow work is stupidly hard* became one.
And that whole "I'll play a Drow who is different cause he's not evil!" or the opposite. "Drow are hawtz cause they are evilz! I must play one!"
Oh I don't change them at all. I let my Player Characters play Drow then they get all upset when the first town the walk into lynches them without even giving them a chance to talk, generally gagging them first because their words might cast a hex on your ears and make you sympathetic to them etc etc.
Interestingly, the last time I did this I had one HUGE drizzt fan and one newer drizzt fan who hadn't played much D&D. The latter got lynched and the former laughed her ass off. So at least Salvatore accurately presents drow. If you read enough of it you start to understand that Jarlaxle is more of the rule and less the exception.
I don't really hate him though, because if I was going to hate, I'd have to care. I just dislike.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/photoman001/drizztyx2.jpg
Another big issue I have with Drizzt is overexposure. His adventures kinda need to end. They're getting too repetitive. He's in too many books, it's getting waaaaaaay too old. Kinda like how most people that are really into comics don't like Wolverine because he's EVERYWHERE. That's another big reason.
I do agree that Salvatore's fight scenes are also truly masterful. I've owned all the FR books at one time or another that had any story about Drizzt in them. I thought about the Star Wars book he wrote but that was before I heard about what he did to Chewbacca.
Anyway, Drizzt is still one of my favorite characters and probably always will be. His stories is what got me into D&D in the first place though I never tried to play a clone.
Show
dropped a moon on him
Oh, wait, yes it is. Yeah, Salvatore isn't exactly on the favorite author list for that.
HeShowdropped a moon on him
The auto-winning in fights, the black-and-white moral views and the "poor me" mentality all go against my grain. I also hate how the ranger character-class seems to have been written with him a bit too much in mind in 3.0-4.0.
Sorry for being so ranty, but I've met some very creepy Drizzt fans, so I get in a bad mood on reflex now.
I wasn't too keen on the way drow were done in the first place. I'd much prefer if the game just said "some elves are bad, just like humans". The idea of an evil race is something I'm not over-keen on, I feel it devalues the evilness of them.
The auto-winning in fights, the black-and-white moral views and the "poor me" mentality all go against my grain. I also hate how the ranger character-class seems to have been written with him a bit too much in mind in 3.0-4.0.
Sorry for being so ranty, but I've met some very creepy Drizzt fans, so I get in a bad mood on reflex now.
Yeah, man F***in scimitar dance. You know how many players I've had think about that feat and NOT take it because they couldn't stomach the shame of being a Drizzt clone?
WHYYYYYYYYY?!?!?!
Off-topic: Because Chewie is so freakin' badass that it took an entire gottdamned moon slamming into him to kill him off. And the reason he got hit by it was because he stayed behind to save Han, Leia, and the kids.
Lemme see if I can find the picture of it. Ah he we go, here it is.
1) In the academy, where he gets back-stabbed by his "ally"
2) In the Underdark when he trips on a rock and freaks out about it (I can understand why, though)
3) When he gets beaten in a fight by Obould
I mean, come on, it took a freaking GOD (or close to it) to beat Drizzt down in a fair fight- and a close one at that. Drizzt should lose a HELL of a lot more often, if not because of his skill, then because of the eventuality of bad luck! Or because his foes out-planned him, got the jump on him, and just flat-out overwhelm him!
Don't get me wrong, I really like Drizzt as a character (like I said before, don't really have any problem with him- excluding this one, of course.)
My problem with Drizzt is pretty much the lack of display of his mortality. He's still a mortal, and he makes mistakes. Or at least, SHOULD make mistakes.
(And yes, I realize the irony of this post, I just wanted to add my own problem with Drizzt since everyone else has and I haven't.)
There's a name for the kind of character that has almost no flaws- Mary Sue. Or in this case, Emo Sue.
More like God Mode Sue
Drizzt is great for a character but Salvatore's greatest contribution is not our ebon skinned hero. I find his villains much more compelling. Entreri and the Ghost from the Cleric's Quintet were just awesome.
I do agree that Salvatore's fight scenes are also truly masterful. I've owned all the FR books at one time or another that had any story about Drizzt in them. I thought about the Star Wars book he wrote but that was before I heard about what he did to Chewbacca.
Anyway, Drizzt is still one of my favorite characters and probably always will be. His stories is what got me into D&D in the first place though I never tried to play a clone.
I actually like Pwent more than I like Drizzt. :D
=======================================================
On a side note, I have noticed a bit of a drawback to the popularity of Drizzt, and that is that it seems that these days anyone who has a character with a Figurine of Wondrous Power, regardless of the type, automatically lable that person a Drizzt copy-cat.
Because they wanted something nice and memmorable to kick off the "New Jedi Order" books.
And Jar-Jar Binks was nowhere to be found. :P
Drizzt is great for a character but Salvatore's greatest contribution is not our ebon skinned hero. I find his villains much more compelling. Entreri and the Ghost from the Cleric's Quintet were just awesome.
I do agree that Salvatore's fight scenes are also truly masterful. I've owned all the FR books at one time or another that had any story about Drizzt in them. I thought about the Star Wars book he wrote but that was before I heard about what he did to Chewbacca.
Anyway, Drizzt is still one of my favorite characters and probably always will be. His stories is what got me into D&D in the first place though I never tried to play a clone.
98% this I loved the books. I still liked Drizzt more than Ghost, but Entreri is a badass because he is a near (if not) equal and he didn't need nearly as long to train. Humans ftw!
If someone could spoiler box it for me, it'd be appreciated. I haven't figured out how... blasted computers.
[noparse]
That Wulfgar book was one of the worst I ever read. Drinking is bad. We get it. What? Drinking is bad? Yeah, we heard you the first forty times. What? Don't even say it! 'Drinking is ...'you, pal! :P That book is actually the reason I'm a drunk. I have to drink to forget its awfulness. And it's not working ...
I think it was more of 'Abusing drink is bad'
I think it was more of 'Abusing drink is bad'
Eh, those morality tales never talk about moderation, it's always an "all or nothing" thing.
I think it was more of 'Abusing drink is bad'
...
Eh, those morality tales never talk about moderation, it's always an "all or nothing" thing.
^^
Exactly. Did Wulfy-boyo cut back to a bottle a week or did he just stop altogether? Remember, his journey started with just one drink. Just one. ;)
Ah, but he has the power of [color=Magenta]PLOT[/color] behind him.
Stupid Plot armor with it's +Infinity enhancement to all Defenses.
Perhaps there needs to be a new series written where Angst Boy gets smacked around a bit... Preferably by some gnolls. *insane gnoll laughter* :evillaugh
:evillaugh
Drizzt is ok. It's just that RAS seems to have come up with a formula that he'll not deviate from. It's just been done too much. I also really got tired of the constant whining (the notes ahead of sections) and his goofball morality lessons. That Wulfgar book was one of the worst I ever read. Drinking is bad. We get it. What? Drinking is bad? Yeah, we heard you the first forty times. What? Don't even say it! 'Drinking is ...'
I think that his formula is still a million times better than the formula being used by David Edding!
I think that his formula is still a million times better than the formula being used by David Edding!
Blasphemy!
Well, not realy.... The 'formula' used by Eddings is cut-and-paste from hundreds of fantasy stories. The difference is the style and the characters.
Eddings formula- Heroic party have to find item X to defeat enemy B. Along the way they discover secrets about C, D, and E and make allies with former enemies F, G, and H. When they reach B, C dies and A (the hero or member of heroic party) gains some sort of power.
Seem familiar?
I got the sharp stuff! Let's get the zogger! Waaagh! da Drizzt Haters! Waaagh!
:fight!: :fight!: :fight!:
Blasphemy!
Well, not realy.... The 'formula' used by Eddings is cut-and-paste from hundreds of fantasy stories. The difference is the style and the characters.
Eddings formula- Heroic party have to find item X to defeat enemy B. Along the way they discover secrets about C, D, and E and make allies with former enemies F, G, and H. When they reach B, C dies and A (the hero or member of heroic party) gains some sort of power.
Seem familiar?
I was thinking more along the lines of the characters that Eddings creates. Read the The Belgariad series and the Elenium series (and their subsequent series) and the characters from each are pretty much a carbon copy of the characters from the other series! They just have different names. And he went and did the same thing with his Elder Gods series.
[noparse]
i used to like drizzt, and while it has little to do with the chracter, seeing hes not the first or the last to have infinate plot armor. it was the last 2 trilogies that made me not like him. RAS worked hard for me not to like him, lol.
first his seeming comtempt for eilistraee, mentioning her only once, ever. and only to say shes a dead god and her followers are gone. i found that somewhat petty.
second his very predictable writing style. how he must tie off loose ends by killing characters off. somehow some way the characters that deserve a righteous beating somehow never get it. and finally RAS's disdain for sex in his books.
. and finally RAS's disdain for sex in his books.
Can you elaborate on this? Its been awhile since I read his novels but I never noticed anything of the sort.
Besides, if you want to read erotica novels you might be looking at the wrong kind of books.;)
B) His character concept has been done to death, both before and after his conception.
C) He can't be taken seriously. Honestly, what were the names of his swords? Twinkle and Icingdeath? What? Is there anyway I can take that seriously? It's damned retarded is what it is.
I can honestly tell you that I do like the character and find most of RA's writing fun to read. At a few points along Drizzt's path, I found him to be "whiny" but the more I think about it, the more I realize that it's just a more "realistic" view point of the character.
Authors would have you believe that killing monsters, surviving by the skin of your teeth, and having a history that some would consider monstrous is the day to day run of the mill for any adventurer. Fact is, I believe Drizzt puts some realism and out-of-the-box thinking in his monologues and I think that sorta distorts the "fantasy" style some are used to. I've never read about another adventurer who pondered killing goblins.
Can you elaborate on this? Its been awhile since I read his novels but I never noticed anything of the sort.
-The Pirate King included two allusions to Drizzt and Cattie-Brie sleeping together, and one scene in which the chapter ended with the two doing the deed (as a the "screen" faded to black).
-The Pirate King included two allusions to Drizzt and Cattie-Brie sleeping together, and one scene in which the chapter ended with the two doing the deed (as a the "screen" faded to black).
Yes, I think I remember that but I was referring to his mentioning of "RAS's disdain for sex", I never noticed anything of the sort so I asked if he could explain what he meant more in detail.
To me, RAS alluding to drizzt and cattie-brie sleeping together suggests quite the opposite actually.
Just because he doesn't depict all the realms inhabitants as dirtyminded to the point of ad naseum, as I think Ed Greenwood does every now and then;), does not mean that he's against it.
Does he not have alot of younger readers as well(atleast for his drizzt books)? Perhaps thats another reason.
first his seeming comtempt for eilistraee, mentioning her only once, ever. and only to say shes a dead god and her followers are gone. i found that somewhat petty.
That's contempt?
Seriously, so what if Drizzt never really talked about Eilistraee or her church? How many servants of the Dark Maiden did he actually know? Drizzt's accurate remarks don't give off contempt; they give off melancholy. He was upset that Eilistraee was gone; he didn't look down upon her for getting herself killed, nor did he begrudge her faithful.
second his very predictable writing style. how he must tie off loose ends by killing characters off.
Except he doesn't. In fact, he does quite the opposite.
and finally RAS's disdain for sex in his books.
Just because people don't match Greenwood's use of sex does not mean they disdain sex. In fact, RAS uses sex fairly often, just not in an "in your face" manner.
To me, RAS alluding to drizzt and cattie-brie sleeping together suggests quite the opposite actually.
Just because he doesn't depict all the realms inhabitants as dirtyminded to the point of ad naseum, as I think Ed Greenwood does every now and then;), does not mean that he's against it.
Does he not have alot of younger readers as well(atleast for his drizzt books)? Perhaps thats another reason.
Right on all counts, my friend.
i can't do the quotes box thing lord manshoon so...
in regard to his boring style and need to kill of chracters and loose ends i can name three un nessassary ones off the top of my head; delly, wulfgars mate, the human calemshite chick that jarlaxe was spending time with, and the girl that survived the first drow attack in homeland.
for RAS disdain of sex, i mean that almost every chracter he writes about having sex or is sexy usually dies gruesome. off the top of my head the orc king has the mage from sundabar who gets cleaved in half by obould. nnto mention countless drow that may or may not have deserved thier death. i came to this conclusion by the amazing ability for his comic/ funny characters to survive.
point being, both you and i and countless other people get very different things reading the same novels, i'd aappreciate if you didn't act as your opinion is the only one that matters.
i know this next comment might raise a few eyebrows and that i am in the extreme minority on this, but i feel that if you can write about death by sword ( which in reality, is a very horrific way to die) then you don't have to gloss over the intimate scenes. the last book i read which was the orc king had all sorts of body parts flying every which way. i stopped at the orc king and havn't felt the urge to read the next in the series. i understand the notion of this series catoring to a younger audience but if i were in the position of being a parent i'd bar a movie for violence long before sex.
when i was referring to contempt for the elistraee i ment in regards to the author, having his main character mention the dark maiden only once. perhaps i should have clarified. my fault.
Ah, I see. Sorry about that. However (and this is just me spitballing here), I think RAS avoided tying Drizzt to Eilistraee in any way, simply because he didn't want to take an "obvious path". It's easy for people to (superficially) see Drizzt and Eilistraee, and think "If the Dark Maiden watches over good drow, shouldn't Drizzt have something to do with her?" I think RAS wanted to take the road less-traveled, and so purposely avoided giving Eilistraee any spotlight. I wouldn't call it contempt, so much as it as willful neglect.
in regard to his boring style and need to kill of chracters and loose ends i can name three un nessassary ones off the top of my head; delly, wulfgars mate, the human calemshite chick that jarlaxe was spending time with, and the girl that survived the first drow attack in homeland.
While I agree that Delly's death was tying off a loose end, I don't feel the same way about Le'lorinel. Personally, I think RAS was trying to show that a good deed done in the past can lead to tragedy in the future. By trying to hide the child in Homeland, Drizzt hoped to spare her a gruesome death and give her the chance to rebuild her life. Instead, she becomes obsessed with Drizzt, whom she believes is her mother's killer, and dedicates her "second chance" life to honing her skills in anticipation of slaying him. There's a certain poetic justice/irony in the situation, as far as I'm concerned; Drizzt spares a child out of the goodness of his heart, only for her to lead a life of ignorant rage, suffering, and anger, before being cut down by the man who once saved her. As for the Calishite girl, I'm afraid I can't remember.:embarrass I recall the Damaran woman (something Dragonsbane?) from The Sellswords books, but not a Calishite. Could you refresh my memory please?
for RAS disdain of sex, i mean that almost every chracter he writes about having sex or is sexy usually dies gruesome. off the top of my head the orc king has the mage from sundabar who gets cleaved in half by obould. nnto mention countless drow that may or may not have deserved thier death. i came to this conclusion by the amazing ability for his comic/ funny characters to survive.
Come now, every character? Drizzt, Catti-brie, Jarlaxle, and Entreri have all rocked headboards (not necessarily with each other), and generally ended up with bruises at worst. Entreri's lover in the Sellswords trilogy did get beat up, but she lived (and she got the man of little emotion to rock the boat). There was also a girl who copulated with a priest in the Sellswords trilogy. The priest died because he was corrupt and Entreri had a vendetta against him; the girl lived.
point being, both you and i and countless other people get very different things reading the same novels, i'd aappreciate if you didn't act as your opinion is the only one that matters.
I think this is my line. You do realize this was the point I was trying to get across to you?;)
I might have been too aggressive when stating my opinion, and for that I apologize. I was merely pointing out how greatly our opinions differ. I'm sorry if you found my comments snarky or overbearing; that wasn't my intent.
i know this next comment might raise a few eyebrows and that i am in the extreme minority on this, but i feel that if you can write about death by sword ( which in reality, is a very horrific way to die) then you don't have to gloss over the intimate scenes. the last book i read which was the orc king had all sorts of body parts flying every which way. i stopped at the orc king and havn't felt the urge to read the next in the series. i understand the notion of this series catoring to a younger audience but if i were in the position of being a parent i'd bar a movie for violence long before sex.
That's just his style, though. Maybe RAS doesn't focus on intimate scenes because he doesn't know how to give them life without cheapening them, or because they're not his forte?;) The man's not perfect.
Just for the record. It wasn't RAS intent for Drizzt to be the popular character in the novels( I think it was Wulfgar to be honest).
The mention(or lack thereof) of Ellistrae took place around the time she became popular in our time. And when she was mentioned it was in a positive light.(When Drizzt faced Donnia)
Drizzt also had his god chosen already.
Drizzt is still an original character despite what many believe. How many other drow do you know that is accepted by a non-elven god?
People also forget that "Darkwalker on Moonshae" and "The Crystal Shard" were the first 2 novels published by TSR and the first 2 novels pertaining to the realms.
RAS brought the drow to life rather than being simply a monster listed in 1e MM
As far as his emoness as you put it. Tell me when you were in your Adolescence you didn't go through emotional changes?:P
Yes, I think I remember that but I was referring to his mentioning of "RAS's disdain for sex", I never noticed anything of the sort so I asked if he could explain what he meant more in detail.
To me, RAS alluding to drizzt and cattie-brie sleeping together suggests quite the opposite actually.
-Yes, that was the point I was making, in reference to it being mentioned. It's something that does indeed happen in his books, albeit in a tasteful, low-key manner. ;)
i know this next comment might raise a few eyebrows and that i am in the extreme minority on this, but i feel that if you can write about death by sword ( which in reality, is a very horrific way to die) then you don't have to gloss over the intimate scenes. the last book i read which was the orc king had all sorts of body parts flying every which way. i stopped at the orc king and havn't felt the urge to read the next in the series. i understand the notion of this series catoring to a younger audience but if i were in the position of being a parent i'd bar a movie for violence long before sex.
-There is the matter of being tasteful. Violence is much more societally acceptable than sex, and depictions of violence leading to death (barring extremes, such as an excess of blood and gore, for example) are PG-13, while depictions of sex (as opposed to allusions to it) are R. There's no reason that, in his books, we need to "see" the details of Drizzt and Cattie-Brie's sex-life. Those are details we don't need. Accurate portrayals of battle scenes- parts of R.A. Salvatore's books that are often pivotal and integral to the actual storyline, those details we need. So long as it's not over-the-top, and R.A. Salvatore normally is not, those are details we need. If Drizzt's in a battle, we need to know how he wiggles his way out of danger. If Drizzt's in bed, we don't need to know how he wiggles his...
Just for the record. It wasn't RAS intent for Drizzt to be the popular character in the novels( I think it was Wulfgar to be honest).
-Right. Drizzt was originally supposed to be an "outgrowth" from the Moonshae Trilogy, and then Drizzt was supposed to be a sort of "father figure/teacher" for Wulfgar, much like Mooshie was to him. The blueprints for that can still be seen, sort of, in the Icewind Dale trilogy, where Drizzt and Wulfgar do a lot of solo teaming up, leaving everyone else behind.
LM: The Woman that Jarlaxle beds in Calimshan is Sharlotta Vespers.
That's ringing a bell.
Entreri has a relationship with Cahlyle(spell) and Dragonsbane is the surname of the rulers of Vaasa. Gareth and Christine(I think).
I just looked up the Damaran woman Jarlaxle gets cozy with in Promise of the Witch King. It's Ellery Tranth Dopray Kierney Dragonsbane Peidopare. She's Christine's first cousin, and Gareth's second cousin, once removed. I knew there was Dragonsbane blood in her veins.
Just for the record. It wasn't RAS intent for Drizzt to be the popular character in the novels( I think it was Wulfgar to be honest).
I know. The special edition five-in-one Cleric's Quintet has a little intro by RAS, and he says that not only was Wulfgar supposed to be top dog, but he had planned on finishing with Drizzt for good after the Dark Elf Trilogy ended.
The mention(or lack thereof) of Ellistrae took place around the time she became popular in our time. And when she was mentioned it was in a positive light.(When Drizzt faced Donnia)
Drizzt also had his god chosen already.
Works for me.
Drizzt is still an original character despite what many believe. How many other drow do you know that is accepted by a non-elven god?
Heh? I'm a Drizzt-defender. I'm pro-RAS.
People also forget that "Darkwalker on Moonshae" and "The Crystal Shard" were the first 2 novels published by TSR and the first 2 novels pertaining to the realms.
RAS brought the drow to life rather than being simply a monster listed in 1e MM
Again, I don't see where you're going with this, but I agree with what you've presented.
As far as his emoness as you put it. Tell me when you were in your Adolescence you didn't go through emotional changes?:P
Emotionless? I was referring to Entreri, and said he was a man of little emotion. Which, seeing as how he rarely shows emotion, is a description I find accurate.
Drizzt? Well, we know he can show emotion.
There's no reason that, in his books, we need to "see" the details of Drizzt and Cattie-Brie's sex-life. Those are details we don't need.
My point exactly. If RAS doesn't want to divulge, he shouldn't have to. Although, now that I think about, I demand The Ghost King have hardcore orgy scenes! One last pre-Wailing Years hurrah for the Companions of the Hall!:D Think about the money he could reel in!
EDIT: Oh yes, and if such a thing is to occur, the phrase "Catti-brie, pull my sword free from its scabbard." must be used!:P
As far as his emoness as you put it. Tell me when you were in your Adolescence you didn't go through emotional changes?:P
Yes, but I wasn't an adolescent for twelve books.
No I meant Drizzt's Emo-ness that people complain about. The guy/drow was going through what I assume was adolescence being as he's barely 100 at the time.
I mentioned the novels because I wanted to show that Drizzt was the first drow(Afaik) and pretty much opened the door for everything else drow that's in the realms.
I know everything's been retconned and made to look like it's always been there but IMO:
No Drizzt= a longer time for the drow culture to come into being.
Anyone Else notice similarities with Wulfgar and Conan? Particularly when Wulfgar fought his own Camel in the Halflings Gem. :P
Yes, but I wasn't an adolescent for twelve books.
But you also don't have an average lifespan of 700 yrs :P
And with the exception of the 6 yr gap between Seige of Darkness and Passage to Dawn the books are pretty close to each other.
No I meant Drizzt's Emo-ness that people complain about. The guy/drow was going through what I assume was adolescence being as he's barely 100 at the time.
Ah! Emo-ness. There's a phrase I'm not used to seeing.
But I wasn't really talking about Drizzt's emotions. But now I just might... Nah.
I mentioned the novels because I wanted to show that Drizzt was the first drow(Afaik) and pretty much opened the door for everything else drow that's in the realms.
Oh. Right. Still, I think that even as Eilistraee was gaining steam, RAS purposely didn't want the two to be associated. But that's just me.
Ah! Emo-ness. There's a phrase I'm not used to seeing.
Nah.
Oh. Right. Still, I think that even as Eilistraee was gaining steam, RAS purposely didn't want the two to be associated. But that's just me.
Me also. But I think it's because RAS didn't want to take away anything from what Drizzt has done by himself not because of any slight he has against Ellistrae. Drizzt(as far as the Realmsgo) is wholly unique. If Drizzt were to be mentioned a lot with Ellistrae some people might think that Ellistrae redeemed him 2.
Even i (prob one the most avid Drizzt fans there is here) sometimes got annoyed with the musings at the beginning of the chapters. Which didn't start until the dark elf trilogy.
Even i (prob one the most avid Drizzt fans there is here) sometimes got annoyed with the musings at the beginning of the chapters. Which didn't start until the dark elf trilogy.
-They were much better in The Pirate King (it's been too long to remember The Orc King). There were four of them, one to start each new section of the book, and each musing was about a page or so, and was a lot more concise and relevant to the going-ons of the book (using specifics even!) than in the past.
Me also. But I think it's because RAS didn't want to take away anything from what Drizzt has done by himself not because of any slight he has against Ellistrae. Drizzt(as far as the Realmsgo) is wholly unique. If Drizzt were to be mentioned a lot with Ellistrae some people might think that Ellistrae redeemed him 2.
Well, funny enough, this is EXACTLY what I mentioned earlier.:D
Even i (prob one the most avid Drizzt fans there is here) sometimes got annoyed with the musings at the beginning of the chapters. Which didn't start until the dark elf trilogy.
I don't mind the musings too much. I kinda like the chance to look directly into Drizzt's mind without something getting in the way. What a shame his thoughts are so similar from book to book. You think with his long lifespan he'd have some really chaotic ideas from time to time. I wonder what the musings of the other characters might be like. Maybe Catti-brie regrets how unsatisfying Drizzt is when he's not channeling the Hunter.:P
Well, funny enough, this is EXACTLY what I mentioned earlier.:D
I don't mind the musings too much. I kinda like the chance to look directly into Drizzt's mind without something getting in the way. What a shame his thoughts are so similar from book to book. You think with his long lifespan he'd have some really chaotic ideas from time to time. I wonder what the musings of the other characters might be like. Maybe Catti-brie regrets how unsatisfying Drizzt is when he's not channeling the Hunter.:P
Probably as dissappointed as the girl In "Fight club" when it was Ed Norton instead of Brad Pitt :P
Probably as dissappointed as the girl In "Fight club" when it was Ed Norton instead of Brad Pitt :P
And frighteningly enough, Fight Club was on TV when I was writing my previous response.
i was out of line trying to defend what i believed, a big part of my problem is i havn't read every book of his. one th first of his sellsword trilogy before it was the sellsword trilogy and niether of the two new books.
i'll agree to the willful neglect, in regards to the dark maiden and drizzt part of what you said. makes sense enough to me.
second parth we know about delly and sharletta, but there were more that i forgot about. to me its like seeing the strings of a puppet or the blue screen of a special effecct i see plot line and construct, and it takes some of the magic out for me.
but this is going so off topic lol.
to lord karsus. "-There is the matter of being tasteful. Violence is much more societally acceptable than sex, and depictions of violence leading to death (barring extremes, such as an excess of blood and gore, for example) are PG-13, while depictions of sex (as opposed to allusions to it) are R. There's no reason that, in his books, we need to "see" the details of Drizzt and Cattie-Brie's sex-life. Those are details we don't need. Accurate portrayals of battle scenes- parts of R.A. Salvatore's books that are often pivotal and integral to the actual storyline, those details we need. So long as it's not over-the-top, and R.A. Salvatore normally is not, those are details we need. If Drizzt's in a battle, we need to know how he wiggles his way out of danger. If Drizzt's in bed, we don't need to know how he wiggles his..."
what we are dealing with are opinions on what is tasteful and what isn't. as i stated previously i know that im in a very small minority to violence being less the acceptable then sex. and again, the body count of the book and means little to nothing to me, in much the same way we don't need every excruciating detail any sex whatso ever... i feel the same way of what artemis's dagger does to quivering flesh as it sucks the very life force of a person. or when the gnome blows up an entire battlefield leaving charred bodies of orcs burning alive...
i was going to try the quote thing again but ah well. to lord manshoon, apology accepted, appreciated and we all good lol.
i was out of line trying to defend what i believed, a big part of my problem is i havn't read every book of his. one th first of his sellsword trilogy before it was the sellsword trilogy and niether of the two new books.
You weren't out of line, don't worry.
EDIT: Drizztsmanchild, this is directed to you.
I actually just remembered something. In the reprint of Darkwalker on Moonshae, RAS actually mentions that Drizzt isn't entirely his own unique creation. Back when DoM was the only novel written and The Crystal Shard was still a twinkle in RAS's eye (boy does that sound awful), RAS wrote the plotline to take part in the Moonshae Isles. Reason being? He wasn't aware there was a Faerun beyond the islands! Because he thought the islands were the end all, he used Douglas Niles's character Daryth and his hound Canthus. He didn't want to, but he felt he kinda had to. Then he was shown a map of Faerun; everything changed. Daryth and Canthus became Drizzt and Guenhwyvar. The latter are directly influenced by the former.
-The Pirate King included two allusions to Drizzt and Cattie-Brie sleeping together, and one scene in which the chapter ended with the two doing the deed (as a the "screen" faded to black).
That is just wrong. Reading that made me throw up alittle in my mouth.:embarrassTo be honest LM I never read the Darkwalker novels..The used book store here has it so I'll pick it up tomorrow. And it doesn't surprise me. Everything ever written is somewhat based on something else ;)
I know. I must say the similarities are pretty basic. The intro RAS wrote in the reprint says that he was asked to write a book in the Forgotten Realms, and his response was basically, "What the hell are the Forgotten Realms?" I can't imagine trying to write a novel in the very beginning of FR.:D Must have been pandemonium until they read the lore Ed had and saw the detailed map.
Did you read my post #98 by any chance? If not, you're in for a treat.
I do agree that RA, should have killed Drizzty dead.;) The sooner the better!:D
Here is a thought, in Golarion Drizzty would turn into an Elf. See either way he is screwed. Just goes to show you that Elves are EVIL!:embarrass
I hate the way RAS writes his "fight scenes". I find them way too mechanical and annoyingly descriptive, although I'm sure some people like them for this very reason. I've noticed that most of these fight passages are devoid of metaphors, which seems strange to me, considering the supposed grace and beauty of Drizzt's movements.
-There is the matter of being tasteful. Violence is much more societally acceptable than sex, and depictions of violence leading to death (barring extremes, such as an excess of blood and gore, for example) are PG-13, while depictions of sex (as opposed to allusions to it) are R. There's no reason that, in his books, we need to "see" the details of Drizzt and Cattie-Brie's sex-life. Those are details we don't need. Accurate portrayals of battle scenes- parts of R.A. Salvatore's books that are often pivotal and integral to the actual storyline, those details we need. So long as it's not over-the-top, and R.A. Salvatore normally is not, those are details we need. If Drizzt's in a battle, we need to know how he wiggles his way out of danger. If Drizzt's in bed, we don't need to know how he wiggles his...
Hear Hear.
RAS novels are kind of supposed to be action-fantasy(I think), if they were supposed to be erotica-fantasy novels im sure we could expect more intimate details and descriptions of those kind of scenes while skimming over the battle scenes.
People read Salvatore for the action(atleast partly), thats his "thing", it's what he's famous for.
And one more thing, even though it doesn't really follow the rest of the thread.
I hate the way RAS writes his "fight scenes". I find them way too mechanical and annoyingly descriptive, although I'm sure some people like them for this very reason. I've noticed that most of these fight passages are devoid of metaphors, which seems strange to me, considering the supposed grace and beauty of Drizzt's movements.
I agree with you, I also prefer battle scenes to be abit more vague with only the major events being described in detail(such as the spectacular riposte that leads to the killing blow or w/e) kind of like Paul Kemps style. He leaves more to the imagination of the reader while still keeping the battles evocative imho.
Hear Hear.
RAS novels are kind of supposed to be action-fantasy(I think), if they were supposed to be erotica-fantasy novels im sure we could expect more intimate details and descriptions of those kind of scenes while skimming over the battle scenes.
People read Salvatore for the action(atleast partly), thats his "thing", it's what he's famous for.
im was never specifically referring to full on erotica or anything of the sort, but more akin to to robert e howards conan. REH was able to combine both in an expert way and set the tone for most fantasy novels, never having to wear the mantle of 'erotica'. even older DND novels followed the same line, such as the baldurs gate series. they had it in there and it was tastefully done barring the lameness of the main protagonist.
now i get RAS is known for combat and thats his thing, perhaps for me they way his stories naturally flow that way thenm he jerks it out of that 'place' with death, or plot weave, which makes him less of an author for me.
what we are dealing with are opinions on what is tasteful and what isn't. as i stated previously i know that im in a very small minority to violence being less the acceptable then sex. and again, the body count of the book and means little to nothing to me, in much the same way we don't need every excruciating detail any sex whatso ever... i feel the same way of what artemis's dagger does to quivering flesh as it sucks the very life force of a person. or when the gnome blows up an entire battlefield leaving charred bodies of orcs burning alive...
-As you said, you are in the minority group. Societally, the majority group wins, and in this case, that group defines scenes depicting sex (as opposed to allusions, metaphors, "wink winks", and similar things) as bad.
-But, anyway, like I said, the details of what Drizzt does in bed, we don't need those to follow the story. Do we need the details of a specific battle? That is, are those details relevant and crucial to the story? Not always, but in many times, they are. Take the already-mentioned "spectacular riposte that leads to the killing blow". The sequence of Drizzt learning this move was of great importance in Homeland- obviously, in Homeland, we are going to need to know just how exactly he learned this move, and in subsequent novels, when he employs it, because it's something "special", we'll need to be told.
-As you said, you are in the minority group. Societally, the majority group wins, and in this case, that group defines scenes depicting sex (as opposed to allusions, metaphors, "wink winks", and similar things) as bad.
-But, anyway, like I said, the details of what Drizzt does in bed, we don't need those to follow the story. Do we need the details of a specific battle? That is, are those details relevant and crucial to the story? Not always, but in many times, they are. Take the already-mentioned "spectacular riposte that leads to the killing blow". The sequence of Drizzt learning this move was of great importance in Homeland- obviously, in Homeland, we are going to need to know just how exactly he learned this move, and in subsequent novels, when he employs it, because it's something "special", we'll need to be told.
yes, of course you are right. it is what it is.
it does seem to me that the "newer" books have gotten more prude with each passing year. and those that do showcase sex have gotten the stigma of becoming " tasteless erotica". when back in the day, another sword swing, parry or riposte was just as common as "other" conquests.
ah well, going to try to tie it back in to making common ground with the first post and mention that Salvatore writes in this a way that favors that "action first" style. this has affected my intrest in drizzt thus, i am not a fan purly on how the author composes his stories and his writing style.
it does seem to me that the "newer" books have gotten more prude with each passing year. and those that do showcase sex have gotten the stigma of becoming " tasteless erotica". when back in the day, another sword swing, parry or riposte was just as common as "other" conquests.
-I think it's the exact opposite, actually; books have become less "prude" with each passing year. Two novel series' that recently came out, Paul Kemp's Twilight War trilogy, and Bruce Cordell's Abolethic Soverignty trilogy both feature/feathered, as main characters, drug addicts, the character in the former an addict of "mindsnuff", a cocaine analogue, and the character in the latter who does a drug that's name escapes me at the moment, but it's known as "walking the red road", that doesn't really have a real-world equivalent. When, in the past, have you seen that, in Forgotten Realms novels? WotC, today, certainly doesn't live by the 'Code of Ethics and Morals' that TSR always tried to enforce in it's products. But, generally speaking, it's a different era between now and then (even though it's only about 20 years or so), and stuff like violence, cursing, drugs, are seen as more acceptable than sex and nudity.
-Sex is just something that has never really had much of an impact in R.A. Salvatore's stories. Sexual tension, that's featured often enough (Drizzt & Cattie-Brie, Cattie-Brie & Wulfgar, Caddery & Danica) as a plot device, but because of what sex is, it needs to be danced around a bit, when/if it's used as a plot device. Most of the time, R.A. Salvatore just ignores it, since his novels are more "fast paced" than others that might utilize it in a relevant, plot-related way.
-A good way of thinking about it is: If it can be seen on TV (non-HBO TV, or whatever 'special' channels a person can pay for), it's fine for the books.
That's weird. Because the impression I get from here and just about everywhere else on the web is that Drizzt is despised. The Drizzt and Salavatore bashers are so vocal and numerous now that I feel like I'm in the minority for being a fan.
(Same with Bruce Cordell. From what I read on these forums, I could swear I'm just about the only one who likes his work.)
Internet haters are a small group of people. Sales figures are all that matter. Comic Book geeks on the net cry about this and that and claim things suck and that certain comics and storylines are the worst "evah" but usually the things they complain about sell alot of product. You really cannot argue against that. The quiet majority win the day with their $$, not whining.
-I think it's the exact opposite, actually; books have become less "prude" with each passing year. Two novel series' that recently came out, Paul Kemp's Twilight War trilogy, and Bruce Cordell's Abolethic Soverignty trilogy both feature/feathered, as main characters, drug addicts, the character in the former an addict of "mindsnuff", a cocaine analogue, and the character in the latter who does a drug that's name escapes me at the moment, but it's known as "walking the red road", that doesn't really have a real-world equivalent. When, in the past, have you seen that, in Forgotten Realms novels? WotC, today, certainly doesn't live by the 'Code of Ethics and Morals' that TSR always tried to enforce in it's products. But, generally speaking, it's a different era between now and then (even though it's only about 20 years or so), and stuff like violence, cursing, drugs, are seen as more acceptable than sex and nudity.
-Sex is just something that has never really had much of an impact in R.A. Salvatore's stories. Sexual tension, that's featured often enough (Drizzt & Cattie-Brie, Cattie-Brie & Wulfgar, Caddery & Danica) as a plot device, but because of what sex is, it needs to be danced around a bit, when/if it's used as a plot device. Most of the time, R.A. Salvatore just ignores it, since his novels are more "fast paced" than others that might utilize it in a relevant, plot-related way.
-A good way of thinking about it is: If it can be seen on TV (non-HBO TV, or whatever 'special' channels a person can pay for), it's fine for the books.
fairly put, but i think ive abused this thread on drizzt long enough. i do have a rebuttal, even in the tsr/wizards line, but i don't think its fair for us to keep dancing baack and forth over it.
fairly put, but i think ive abused this thread on drizzt long enough. i do have a rebuttal, even in the tsr/wizards line, but i don't think its fair for us to keep dancing baack and forth over it.
-Go ahead. That's the point of discussion threads. ;)
- Two novel series' that recently came out, Paul Kemp's Twilight War trilogy, and Bruce Cordell's Abolethic Soverignty trilogy both feature/feathered, as main characters, drug addicts, the character in the former an addict of "mindsnuff", a cocaine analogue, and the character in the latter who does a drug that's name escapes me at the moment, but it's known as "walking the red road", that doesn't really have a real-world equivalent.
Also, the half-elf Brindani from The Restless Shore is a drug addict. He's addicted to silkroot, and there are descriptions of the agony he goes through when he can't get his hands on a bit in time. He's pretty cool when he goes into his drug-fueled sword frenzies, though.
-Go ahead. That's the point of discussion threads. ;)
okies sounds good
in the early ninties, tsr books with sex tastefully done in recent memory was the black throne, a birthright novel. a dark sun trilogy that i forgot the name which had a halfing/half elf mix.:embarrass the baldurs gate trilogy based on the game, i mentioned that one, a ravenloft novel called to sleep with evil had some notions to sex tastefully done.
the councelers and kings trilogy by elain cunningham may not had full on sex scenes but she didn't shy away from it ever happening. i would completly recommend this book trilogy of not for the personal difference of what wemics could do and accomplish. that and there was simply one to many mentions of castration in the book for me.
but anyone thinking of attemping to portray a evil surface elf, this is required reading.other fantasy fiction that i read from tor, daw, and other publishers i could bring up but i don't count those, as per the topic is if wizards was getting soft on mature themes. (insert any conan book)
i am glad you did bring up drug abuse counting as a mature theme. most people get hung up on the "coupling" aspect of it.
most of the time i keep up with your reviews on books, so the twilight war trilogy will be next.:D
:D
http://drmcninja.com/page.php?pageNum=22&issue=9
:D
@#$%&
okies sounds good
in the early ninties, tsr books with sex tastefully done in recent memory was the black throne, a birthright novel. a dark sun trilogy that i forgot the name which had a halfing/half elf mix.:embarrass the baldurs gate trilogy based on the game, i mentioned that one, a ravenloft novel called to sleep with evil had some notions to sex tastefully done.
the councelers and kings trilogy by elain cunningham may not had full on sex scenes but she didn't shy away from it ever happening. i would completly recommend this book trilogy of not for the personal difference of what wemics could do and accomplish. that and there was simply one to many mentions of castration in the book for me.
other fantasy fiction that i read from tor, daw, and other publishers i could bring up but i don't count those, as per the topic is if wizards was getting soft on mature themes. (insert any conan book)
-It's not that I don't think that sex, or sexuality don't have a part in any Forgotten Realms novels (especially Salvatore's), but, things like that have to be done carefully. If Drizzt goes to bed with Cattie-Brie, and the chapter ends on that note, without going into more detail, that's fine with me. It's "artistic". If the chapter goes on, and graphically depicts Drizzt and Cattie-Brie going at it, that's just something that I don't want to read! When/if you go too over-the-top, with something like that, it gets to the point where you don't want to read it. Take Ed Greenwood's novels, for example. Asides for the fact that I don't enjoy his style of writing, the constant barrage of sex, sex, and more sex, be it mentions, allusions, or actual physical events completely turned me off from his novels because of it.
http://drmcninja.com/page.php?pageNum=22&issue=9
:D
-I can't say that I'm really getting what's going on, but the part where the guy says, "Jack Chick was right" is priceless.
-It's not that I don't think that sex, or sexuality don't have a part in any Forgotten Realms novels (especially Salvatore's), but, things like that have to be done carefully. If Drizzt goes to bed with Cattie-Brie, and the chapter ends on that note, without going into more detail, that's fine with me. It's "artistic". If the chapter goes on, and graphically depicts Drizzt and Cattie-Brie going at it, that's just something that I don't want to read! When/if you go too over-the-top, with something like that, it gets to the point where you don't want to read it. Take Ed Greenwood's novels, for example. Asides for the fact that I don't enjoy his style of writing, the constant barrage of sex, sex, and more sex, be it mentions, allusions, or actual physical events completely turned me off from his novels because of it.
I agree with what was said about "artistic". I prefer it this way too.
For Ed Greenwood. I've read a few of his novels and didn't notice too much on the... subject matter. Nothing, to be exact.
I agree with what was said about "artistic". I prefer it this way too.
For Ed Greenwood. I've read a few of his novels and didn't notice too much on the... subject matter. Nothing, to be exact.
Try to struggle your way through the Knights of Myth Drannor trilogy. Seriously, its even worse in those than his other novels.
Things that make you wonder why the hell its even there, sexual situations that do not further or augment the plot in anyway, without any sort of relevance to the situation. In fact, almost every situation sticks out as completely incongruous making you think "where the hell did that come from?"
I sometimes think he puts all that crap in there thinking it'll sell more novels, what with the whole "sex sells" line of thinking.
As an example: MINOR SPOILER AHEAD:
Now, its been quite sometime since I read the trilogy, so I might have gotten some(or all!) of it wrong(I have no inclination to rummage through the novel trying to find it), but something that almost made me laugh and roll my eyes was when Pennae was to be healed by that Ilmater priest and he started touching her in a very inappropriate way during his healing "touch".
The way it was written was as if that was how all realms priests conducted their healing and as if there was nothing weird or unusual about a priest of Ilmater cupping a feel on the (seemingly) unconscious girl while healing her.
So incredibly tacky, it left a very bad taste in my mouth. Almost made me stop reading right there. And that is just one of many situations. Don't know if I'll buy anymore Ed novels. Its getting worse with every year it seems.
Try to struggle your way through the Knights of Myth Drannor trilogy. Seriously, its even worse in those than his other novels.
Things that make you wonder why the hell its even there, sexual situations that do not further or augment the plot in anyway, without any sort of relevance to the situation. In fact, almost every situation sticks out as completely incongruous making you think "where the hell did that come from?"
I sometimes think he puts all that crap in there thinking it'll sell more novels, what with the whole "sex sells" line of thinking.
As an example: MINOR SPOILER AHEAD:
Now, its been quite sometime since I read the trilogy, so I might have gotten some(or all!) of it wrong(I have no inclination to rummage through the novel trying to find it), but something that almost made me laugh and roll my eyes was when Pennae was to be healed by that Ilmater priest and he started touching her in a very inappropriate way during his healing "touch".
The way it was written was as if that was how all realms priests conducted their healing and as if there was nothing weird or unusual about a priest of Ilmater cupping a feel on the (seemingly) unconscious girl while healing her.
So incredibly tacky, it left a very bad taste in my mouth. Almost made me stop reading right there. And that is just one of many situations. Don't know if I'll buy anymore Ed novels. Its getting worse with every year it seems.
You seem to have forgotten Swords of Dragonfire, in which Pennae runs around the Royal Palace in Suzail topless for a fourth of the book! To make matters worse, she was fighting Purple Dragons (who wore platemail and carried swords) at certain points, and besting them! How!? She has only her leather leggings and a completely bare upper torso. Why is nobody able to so much as scratch her? I like Ed both as a person and as a storyteller, but sometimes I just have to stop and say "What point does something like this serve?" and "You cannot be serious."
I like Ed as a person and as a storyteller, but sometimes I just have to stop and say "What point does something like this serve?" and "You cannot be serious."
I agree.
Okay, sexist and uncalled for. I apologize. This same thing will turn me off of a movie. If I wanted a porno I'd have rented a porno! TV shows that are little more than excuses for the lead characters to hop in the sack? Booooooring. If the sex scene is not propelling the story forward, skip it and move on. I like how they handled it in "Life Is Beautiful". After a good, solid relationship has formed with the two leads, he walks her home after a date and as he turns to leave her porch, she remains holding onto his hand as she opens the door and steps in, pulling him along. Door closes, fade to black.
You don't know how a topless babe bouncing around defeated a bunch of soldiers, presumably guys? How about: *jiggle jiggle*
Okay, sexist and uncalled for. I apologize.
That's one of the reasons I hate situations like that. Those soldiers were trained to fight and defend the palace at all costs, to never let their guard down and to remain ever vigilant. That's their training. But the second a random woman shows up with her wares on display, that training disappears and they act like fourteen-year-olds. I don't know why so many of Ed's female characters have the "Invalidate Common Sense" and "Manipulate Stereotype" feats. I'm not bitter, just disheartened; I just feel that odds are at last a couple of the soldiers wouldn't be dazed by her appearance, be it because they remember their training or because their personal preferences lie elsewhere;) .
At least RAS tends to avoid thorn-in-the-arse situations similar to this one like grim death.
Try to struggle your way through the Knights of Myth Drannor trilogy. Seriously, its even worse in those than his other novels.
Things that make you wonder why the hell its even there, sexual situations that do not further or augment the plot in anyway, without any sort of relevance to the situation. In fact, almost every situation sticks out as completely incongruous making you think "where the hell did that come from?"
I sometimes think he puts all that crap in there thinking it'll sell more novels, what with the whole "sex sells" line of thinking.
As an example: MINOR SPOILER AHEAD:
Now, its been quite sometime since I read the trilogy, so I might have gotten some(or all!) of it wrong(I have no inclination to rummage through the novel trying to find it), but something that almost made me laugh and roll my eyes was when Pennae was to be healed by that Ilmater priest and he started touching her in a very inappropriate way during his healing "touch".
The way it was written was as if that was how all realms priests conducted their healing and as if there was nothing weird or unusual about a priest of Ilmater cupping a feel on the (seemingly) unconscious girl while healing her.
So incredibly tacky, it left a very bad taste in my mouth. Almost made me stop reading right there. And that is just one of many situations. Don't know if I'll buy anymore Ed novels. Its getting worse with every year it seems.
-This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the entire situation. And, in certain circles, I'd be called out as not being progressive enough, or being sexually regressed, or not understanding the Forgotten Realms properly, or all sorts of other things like that.
-There are all kinds of criticisms I have towards R.A. Salvatore, but thankfully, unnecessary sexuality isn't one of them.
-This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the entire situation. And, in certain circles, I'd be called out as not being progressive enough, or being sexually regressed, or not understanding the Forgotten Realms properly, or all sorts of other things like that.
After my post about situations such as the one shown in SoD, I kind of expect some imbecile to try the same with me.
He/she/they, of course, would be missing the point.:DAfter my post about situations such as the one shown in SoD, I kind of expect some imbecile to try the same with me.
You talking to me? Are you calling me an Imbecile?:P
I know, I know... if the shoe fits wear it right.:embarrass
;)
That's one of the reasons I hate situations like that. Those soldiers were trained to fight and defend the palace at all costs, to never let their guard down and to remain ever vigilant. That's their training. But the second a random woman shows up with her wares on display, that training disappears and they act like fourteen-year-olds. I don't know why so many of Ed's female characters have the "Invalidate Common Sense" and "Manipulate Stereotype" feats. I'm not bitter, just disheartened; I just feel that odds are at last a couple of the soldiers wouldn't be dazed by her appearance, be it because they remember their training or because their personal preferences lie elsewhere;) .
At least RAS tends to avoid thorn-in-the-arse situations similar to this one like grim death.
I think thats the Power of The Hooded One. I have a feeling that was her character in action. I think that actually happened during a Forgotten Realms Session at Ed's table. I only wonder if THO sat at the table, top-less while roleplaying that scene.
Hey when I served, if a chick came up to me Top-less while I was out in the Field, I would lose all military bearing. Nice Ta-ta's will act as a feeblemind spell to certain folks.
I could be wrong.:P
You talking to me? Are you calling me an Imbecile?:P
I know, I know... if the shoe fits wear it right.:embarrass
;)
In your case, I'll make an exception. You've been downgraded from imbecile to Selunite (or perhaps you'd find that an upgrade in terms of severity?:P )
Curious, though: with what specifically do you disagree about my post?
In your case, I'll make an exception. You've been downgraded from imbecile to Selunite (or perhaps you'd find that an upgrade in terms of severity?:P )
Curious, though: with what specifically do you disagree about my post?
Nothing, just being the Forum Idiot(tm)!:D
See post # 2 in my multi-postfest. Sorry guys for breaking COC.;)
I will forget that rib about she who shall not be named.
:P
I think thats the Power of The Hooded One. I have a feeling that was her character in action. I think that actually happened during a Forgotten Realms Session at Ed's table. I only wonder if THO sat at the table, top-less while roleplaying that scene.
Well, if that entire running-plot was from Ed's game table, I shudder to think of the pathetic rolls Ed as DM must have been making. And if that's how THO played Pennae, cool. I don't have a problem with Pennae's behavior, just the (lack of) consequences and response from the Purple Dragons (other than, "Ooooohh! She has no top.".
Hey when I served, if a chick came up to me Top-less while I was out in the Field, I would lose all military bearing. Nice Ta-ta's will act as a feeblemind spell to certain folks.
Well, I don't have a problem with one or two soldiers being distracted. I just don't like how easily Pennae managed to pull out a win. Again, I find it hard to believe that years of military training would vanish in an instant, and/or that not a single (male) Purple Dragon prefers the company of men, or the company of no one. Why must bare breasts ensnare the will of every soldier in Suzail? Why, Ed, why?
And to try to get this back to Drizzt, I wonder what his reaction would have been to Pennae's display. Hmmm...
EDIT: Just in case, I cast "Protection Against S***storm" and "Greater It's My Opinion"
Well, if that entire running-plot was from Ed's game table, I shudder to think of the pathetic rolls Ed as DM must have been making. And if that's how THO played Pennae, cool. I don't have a problem with Pennae's behavior, just the (lack of) consequences and response from the Purple Dragons (other than, "Ooooohh! She has no top.".
Well, I don't have a problem with one or two soldiers being distracted. I just don't like how easily Pennae managed to pull out a win. Again, I find it hard to believe that years of military training would vanish in an instant, and/or that not a single (male) Purple Dragon prefers the company of men, or the company of no one. Why must bare breasts ensnare the will of every soldier in Suzail? Why, Ed, why?
And to try to get this back to Drizzt, I wonder what his reaction would have been to Pennae's display. Hmmm...
EDIT: Just in case, I cast "Protection Against S***storm" and "Greater It's My Opinion"
Well young Drizzt shied away from nudity and sex(Homelandd)
Wise Drizzt focuses on the Battle at hand and unless Catti-Brie or Alustriel were in that position would prob ignore it.
Boobs are ideo:175" title="http://powerincomics.ning.com/video/video/show?id=796165ideo:175">powerful, that's why! :D
Very, very powerful!
:D
Well young Drizzt shied away from nudity and sex(Homelandd)
Isn't that because it was his sister who wanted to pop his cherry? (That and who'd want to sleep with those
es?)Isn't that because it was his sister who wanted to pop his cherry? (That and who'd want to sleep with those
-I don't think it was one of his sisters (I don't recall reading that in the text, or in the comic), but regardless, he didn't want to engage in such activities because he said that he didn't feel anything for the woman, and thus, didn't want to do that kind of stuff with her. Drizzt's a stand-up guy.
Well young Drizzt shied away from nudity and sex(Homelandd)
Wise Drizzt focuses on the Battle at hand and unless Catti-Brie or Alustriel were in that position would prob ignore it.
Which position? There are so many creative ones for them to try out.:P
-I don't think it was one of his sisters (I don't recall reading that in the text, or in the comic), but regardless, he didn't want to engage in such activities because he said that he didn't feel anything for the woman, and thus, didn't want to do that kind of stuff with her. Drizzt's a stand-up guy.
I'd have to dig it out, but there was at least one scene in Homeland in which his sister was trying to sleep with him as part of a ritual for Lloth. He said no and she threatened to turn him into a drider. Can't remember why he was allowed to live after that.
I could've sworn his sister pressured him into bedding another priestess, and when he wouldn't, she feigned sympathy and lured him into the drider's den.
I could've sworn his sister pressured him into bedding another priestess, and when he wouldn't, she feigned sympathy and lured him into the drider's den.
Yep, that was it. Because the other priestess wanted him and had the right to kill him for his refusal. She was just too high to do it, so his sister and his mother taught him that lesson. Additionally it maybe wasn't only that he didn't have feelings for the priestess, but also that he knew that in the next room another priestess was trying to produce a draegloth with a glabrezu.
...but also that he knew that in the next room another priestess was trying to produce a draegloth with a glabrezu.
What's a draegloth? I've never heard of one of those before. What book are they in?
What's a draegloth? I've never heard of one of those before. What book are they in?
A draegloth is a fiendish hybrid, born of a drow and a demon. They are very powerful, and are deemed a sign of Lolth's blessing. Houses who have draegloth scions tend to hold sway over lesser houses with no such members. Draegloths are very aggressive, and boast considerable physical might and a horrifying appearance. Not all draegloths appreciate the attention, however, and a few often flee their homes to establish themselves elsewhere. They have all the ambitions and cunning of Lolthite priestesses, taken to a whole new level. I believe the sourcebook Champions of Ruin introduces them as a playable race. The War of the Spider Queen novel series features a draegloth character (in all his vile glory).
...They have all the ambitions and cunning of Lolthite priestesses, taken to a whole new level. I believe the sourcebook Champions of Ruin introduces them as a playable race. The War of the Spider Queen novel series features a draegloth character (in all his vile glory).
Some can be surprisingly loyal to their mothers, as is the case with Triel Baenre and her draegloth son, Jeggred. I guess it depends on how they are raised and conditioned.
And yes, CoR has them as a playable race with monster classes. They are also featured in Drow of the Underdark. I've had one as a cohort/daughter of my drow theurge. Good times. :D
I've had one as a cohort/daughter of my drow theurge. Good times. :D
For a minute, I read that as consort/daughter. I was going to say "Really playing on the draegloth's depravity there, aren't you?":D
For a minute, I read that as consort/daughter. I was going to say "Really playing on the draegloth's depravity there, aren't you?":D
I'm sensing a pattern here, mister "pervy gimp mask". haha
I'm sensing a pattern here, mister "pervy gimp mask". haha
Hey, I'm not the one who made his/her character her own father's lover and bedmate. You incestuous fiend...:P
Hells, you even admitted it was "good times".
Hey, I'm not the one who made his character his own father's lover and bedmate. You incestuous fiend...:P
Hells, you even admitted it was "good times".
The character was a priestess/sorcerer/theurge. Cohort was barbarian/fighter,frenzied berserker.
And I'm not the one with selective reading who thinks cohort is in any way similar to consort in appearance or spelling. You naughty perv you. I'm thinking you got deeply repressed incestuous feelings thurr. ;)
Anyway, I'm glad Drizzt didn't bed that Lolthite priestess. That's all the world needs is another drow with the same introspective angst Drizzt goes through.
Yeah, good thing they killed his dad off so quick.
And this happens to be an ace up RAS's sleeve. The more vague he can keep Zak's past, the more elbow room he has to write about Jarlaxle's interest in Drizzt. RAS has been holding up a sign saying "There's a lot of backstory here." for ages, but we've seen little to nothing about it. And I think that's just how RAS wants to keep us on the hooks.;)
Anyway, I'm glad Drizzt didn't bed that Lolthite priestess. That's all the world needs is another drow with the same introspective angst Drizzt goes through.
Just imagine if he did do the "deed". Maybe he would have never left his family!
Maybe that would have turned him EVIL with a capitol E. Thats what Drizzty needs some Drow ***** to set him on the path of destruction!IIRC draegloth's are Sterile and Male.;) Zannan will probably correct me, but hey I like to be corrected. If I get to wear the "Pervy Gimp Mask"!:P
Just imagine if he did do the "deed". Maybe he would have never left his family!
Zaknafein would have slaughtered him. Hells, there was one point in Homeland where he thought he would have to (right after hearing about Drizzt's "rampage" during the surface raid).
IIRC draegloth's are Sterile and Male.;) Zannan will probably correct me, but hey I like to be corrected. If I get to wear the "Pervy Gimp Mask"!:P
You see? I told you to look in the mirror, and see what you've discovered about yourself?:P
What's a draegloth? I've never heard of one of those before. What book are they in?
As LordManshoon said. I believe they also are in Monsters of Faerun.
Half-drow, half-glabrezu, completely evil.
Though in Homeland there was an incestuous area( I guess). " Purple, in both worlds his eyes are purple" Briza or Matron Malice claimed. Vierna gasped thinking of the implication of her brother striking lavender eyes. "He's your brother" Matron Malice said. "Remember on your life and as his eyes pierce you so that he is your brother". Vierna caught herself before she blurted out her response thinking of Matron Malice's exploits with every male in the house and a few she secreted from other houses.(paraphrased of course)
If most people like something, I probably won't/don't...just because everybody else likes it.
What's the difference between hating something just because everyone else likes it, and liking something just because everyone else likes it?
It was only his sister who put him in the drider den. His Matron saved him. Saying"your sister brought you here, she showed mercy" glares at Vierna "But I know Lloths ways better if you ever displease Lolth again, you will return here but not to die" locks eyes with Drizzt" you will return to become a Drider." End of chapter.
Was this the same sister who later turned Dinin (I believe it was Dinin) into a Drider near the beginning of The Legacy?
Though in Homeland there was an incestuous area( I guess).
In Lolth's temple, the House Do'Urden compound, or elsewhere in the city?
" Purple, in both worlds his eyes are purple" Briza or Matron Malice claimed. Vierna gasped thinking of the implication of her brother striking lavender eyes. "He's your brother" Matron Malice said. "Remember on your life and as his eyes pierce you so that he is your brother". Vierna caught herself before she blurted out her response thinking of Matron Malice's exploits with every male in the house and a few she secreted from other houses.(paraphrased of course)
RAS was really trying to push the depravity angle, wasn't he?
1. Yes it was Vierna who turned Dinin into a Drider(By the way what's with RAS and names that begin with D especially second boys( Duqio,Dantrag, Drizzt,Dinin, Donnia(not a second boy but still D) Drow, Dhaermon N'shomething)
2. It was on the night of Drizzt's birth while they were in th house cleric room or temple and while they were in battle with another house(Devir Another D :rant
3. Depravity......
Will this blasted D conspiracy end
Dagnabbitt and Dagna. Delroy....its maddening Danica Seriously this is getting weird....Dragonsbane....Dwarf, Druid, Druzail....the letter D.argggghhhDwarf-friend, Deudermont...Dendybar..Dondon, Dwhavel, Dove, Domo, Demondand, Draegloth,
LM
1. Yes it was Vierna who turned Dinin into a Drider(By the way what's with RAS and names that begin with D especially second boys( Duqio,Dantrag, Drizzt,Dinin, Donnia(not a second boy but still D) Drow, Dhaermon N'shomething)
2. It was on the night of Drizzt's birth while they were in th house cleric room or temple and while they were in battle with another house(Devir Another D :rant
3. Depravity......
Seriously this is getting weird....Dragonsbane....Dwarf, Druid, Druzail....the letter D.argggghhhDwarf-friend, Deudermont...
Hells, you're right!
RAS is up to something. Perhaps if he gets to a certain number of "D" references, he gets elevated to Exarch (of Conspiracies) status. 
Oh, and don't forget Dondon Tiggerwillies.
EDIT: Interesting edit you got there.
-It's not that I don't think that sex, or sexuality don't have a part in any Forgotten Realms novels (especially Salvatore's), but, things like that have to be done carefully. If Drizzt goes to bed with Cattie-Brie, and the chapter ends on that note, without going into more detail, that's fine with me. It's "artistic". If the chapter goes on, and graphically depicts Drizzt and Cattie-Brie going at it, that's just something that I don't want to read! When/if you go too over-the-top, with something like that, it gets to the point where you don't want to read it. Take Ed Greenwood's novels, for example. Asides for the fact that I don't enjoy his style of writing, the constant barrage of sex, sex, and more sex, be it mentions, allusions, or actual physical events completely turned me off from his novels because of it.
again, with everyone elses comments after, it seems im firmly rooted in a miniscule minority
took me a while to respond becuase wizards website wasn't coming up for me.
BTW: Ravenharm, to complete the quote box, place "
" after the text you wish to quote (but without the quotation marks, which I've used here to denote what to write)
You see? I told you to look in the mirror, and see what you've discovered about yourself?:P
:P
LM
1. Yes it was Vierna who turned Dinin into a Drider(By the way what's with RAS and names that begin with D especially second boys( Duqio,Dantrag, Drizzt,Dinin, Donnia(not a second boy but still D) Drow, Dhaermon N'shomething)
2. It was on the night of Drizzt's birth while they were in th house cleric room or temple and while they were in battle with another house(Devir Another D :rant
3. Depravity......
Seriously this is getting weird....Dragonsbane....Dwarf, Druid, Druzail....the letter D.argggghhhDwarf-friend, Deudermont...Dendybar..Dondon, Dwhavel, Dove, Domo, Demondand, Draegloth,
Your bitterness is as sweet, sweet honey to the Lady of Loss Drizztmanchild.;)
Ravenharm check out this link
RAS was really trying to push the depravity angle, wasn't he?
Yep, he was. Big time, in the DE trilogy... I do not know about later books, but in the first book imo it also served to highlight the contrast between Drizzt and the other drow.
Show
I have not read the Dark Elf trilogy in a while, but I seem to remember Vierna speaking to Drizzt after he decided to skil the "graduation ball" with an overly amorous acolyte. I think she pretty much said that if the new priestess was not to his standards, she herself might be available. He seemed on the edge, then remembered she might have bedded a demon during her own graduation... I guess that killed the mood. Funny thing - I had forgotten Malice's words about Vierna and her brother by the time I read that part. I guess she knew her daughter only too well ;)
But while Vierna was nude she never did offer herself.
And eh. I read it then (and read it now) as her saying "we can go somewhere private". I mean, do you really think she was going to go back in there and drag out that other priestess so she could boink Drizzt in privacy?
But eh. It's not what I'd call conclusive.
You know, I found Zak and Vierna the most interesting members of the Do'Urden clan. A pity he died in the first book so Drizzt could get his character push and she eventually devolved to power-mad drow priestess #158622 . If she were left in the background of Jarlaxle's troop and eventually struck out on her own, it could be much better. It is ironic that a computer game, Baldur's Gate, did a much better job describing a disaffected drow cleric than R.A. Salvatore's books did.
I actually would have liked Dinin to get some spotlight, just to see if he could grow. Alas, RAS decided he made a good Drider, so that never came to fruition. About Zak, like I already mentioned, the less RAS mentions about him, the more he can milk Jarlaxle's past, which is pretty good bait for the majority of his fans (myself included). As for Vierna, aye, she had potential for a background member of Bregan D'Aerthe. Oh well.
Yep, he was. Big time, in the DE trilogy... I do not know about later books, but in the first book imo it also served to highlight the contrast between Drizzt and the other drow.
The lack of malice and bloodlust was enough to contrast Drizzt from his peers, in my opinion. I guess RAS just decided to kick it into overdrive.:D
So no you depraved minds that scene is not suggesting that Drizzt was going to sleep with his sister. Just because a female is nude why is it automatically assumed sex is involved.
Lol. I'm positive that Vierna said" you desire privacy ,I understand" lol. But I never took it as it meaning SHE wanted to hook up with her brother. I believe she also said "it can be arranged." Meaning privacy with the priestess that was clawing his leg. Plus Drizzt says something to the effect of " I don't even know her, yet I'm expected to"
That's my take on it too.
So no you depraved minds that scene is not suggesting that Drizzt was going to sleep with his sister. Just because a female is nude why is it automatically assumed sex is involved.
Because this story takes place in the brainchild world of Ed Greenwood.
:D
Vierna then was beside him, her robe opened casually in the front. [...] The look on his sister's face, he noted with still more confusion, was not one of scorn.
"You prefer privacy," she said, her hand resting easily on Drizzt's shoulder. Vieerna made no move to close her robe. "I understand," she said."
Yep. Still sounds like she's hitting on him to me.
But hey, if you want to call me depraved, I can give you a nice good list of reasons to. But don't call be depraved because I think Salvatore was doing his best to make drow society look twisted and wrong, and walked away from a scene with a different interpretation then you.
Yep. Still sounds like she's hitting on him to me.
But hey, if you want to call me depraved, I can give you a nice good list of reasons to. But don't call be depraved because I think Salvatore was doing his best to make drow society look twisted and wrong, and walked away from a scene with a different interpretation then you.
:Rofl: The depraved minds comment was a joke, no offense meant.
And Vierna appeared AFTER she witnessed the scene when Drizzt pulled back from the beckoning priestess. Her robe was open because drow women have no modesty especially in front of males familiy or not. And when she mentioned "privacy" she was assuming Drizzt was apprehensive about fornicating in public, she completely misunderstood why Drizzt pulled away.
And remember Vierna wasn't as mean as her sisters in the beginning because she to was sired by Zak. So she showed a little more compassion towards Drizzt than was wise. And it was suggested that since she was his wean mother that she also sorta helped Drizzt remain un tainted by drow Society.
I already stated that it's far from conclusive. I can see how you might think Vierna was planning on dragging a high priestess away from her orgy in order to appease her perception of Drizzt's modesty, but it doesn't sound right to me. I read the scene as her hitting on Drizzt and offering herself instead of the unnamed priestess in a more private place. That made more sense to me.
And it is in no way incompatible with any of that other stuff you said.
So who are you trying to convince here?
Edit: Actually, no. I take it back. Your idea of the scene is crazy. You're seriously suggesting that Vierna was going to go drag a high priestess out of an orgy-in-progress just to dump her in a room with Drizzt. While she herself was already quite available. And affectionate towards him. No, that doesn't make sense.
Alright first I merely quoted you to show you that the "depraved minds" comment that you pointed out was meant as a joke.Second I'm not trying force my opinion or convince you of anything. I merely pointed out my views on the scene. If you choose to accept cool if not cool.
Third If my memory recalls they weren't priestess's yet. And since Vierna was a Matron Mistress of the priestess acadamey,she would have been well within her rights to secure a private area for her brother and a lower ranked priestess.
I find it far more likely that it was that scenerio.
Drow are evil,twisted, and full of debauchery, but incestuous? I don't think so.
Vierna's face twisted as she came to understand her brother's true intentions in leaving the ceremony. "You refused a high priestess!" she snarled at him. "By the laws, she could kill you for your insolence."
Yeah... totally a great idea of reminding the high priestess that she was snubbed... that completely makes sense as a plan...
And during that whole scene Drizzt's thoughts, words,actions were focused on that priestess and from that passage you posted it's clear that so were Vierna's.
Like I posted earlier how you view drow society is entirely your choice. This is merely my take on the same scene.
Some people, and I think this is especially common among the geek tribes, feel the need to hate anything that is popular. I honestly just want a Drizz't video game. I mean that would be so bad ass.
A Drizzt game would be pure awesomesauce spread on awesometoast with a side of zomgawesome. I am a Drizzt fanboy, and i admit it. I love the character, and if not for Drizzt novels i never wouldve become a gamer.
A Drizzt game would be pure awesomesauce spread on awesometoast with a side of zomgawesome. I am a Drizzt fanboy, and i admit it. I love the character, and if not for Drizzt novels i never wouldve become a gamer.
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and its sequel BGDA II allow you to play as Drizzt, though the storyline doesn't revolve around him. Still, he has the same weapons and armor as described in the novels, and it's still slaying goblins and orcs as Mielikki's special little guy.
Hey when I served, if a chick came up to me Top-less while I was out in the Field, I would lose all military bearing. Nice Ta-ta's will act as a feeblemind spell to certain folks.
I could be wrong.:P
You aren't. To this day, soldiers still drop bearing faster than the speed of light when a pair of sweater muffins pops out. A few months of celibacy will do that to you.
Plus the average age of an enlisted soldier in the military is like 19. So yeah.
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and its sequel BGDA II allow you to play as Drizzt, though the storyline doesn't revolve around him. Still, he has the same weapons and armor as described in the novels, and it's still slaying goblins and orcs as Mielikki's special little guy.
yeah i played that game strictly to play as Drizzt. An even better game with Drizzt playable, though, is the much-ignored but very excellent Demon Stone. You get to fight off an army of trolls beseiging the gates of Mithral hall with the three main characters and Drizzt fighting in three separate battles then uniting to beat down the troll king boss. The rogue in the main cast is a half-drow, and Drizzt gives her some heartwarming encouragement in one cutscene that made me love the character even more.
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and its sequel BGDA II allow you to play as Drizzt, though the storyline doesn't revolve around him. Still, he has the same weapons and armor as described in the novels, and it's still slaying goblins and orcs as Mielikki's special little guy.
I remember the trend was to kill him and take his Weapons. BTW couldn't you also play Artemis in that game?
yes you could.
Some people, and I think this is especially common among the geek tribes, feel the need to hate anything that is popular. I honestly just want a Drizz't video game. I mean that would be so bad ass.
Scanning over these comments, you are absolutely right, GL. People mostly hate Drizzt because he's popular. Many people hate Drizzt, but many more love him, seeing as how the first book came out in like the 70's or so, and it's still popular today. I will take a bet that many of the Drizzt haters havent even gotten past book 3, if that. This would definitely explain how Drizzt gets more hatemail than Artemis and Jarlaxle combined, given that Artemis doesnt appear until the end of book 4. I have been captured in the Drizzt series only a little while now, possibly a few months, but I cannot put the books down when I read them. Maybe it's just me, but I dont think of Drizzt specifically when I call myself a fan, but rather the drow in general. I believe the characteristics of the drow to be exotic and vivid, and that Drizzt is an extension of this spectacular race... Don't hate, because Drizzt Do'Urden owns face.
*Edit* I'm going to college for game design for 5 years soon. After I get out I'm joining with Obsidian, and if the game hasnt already been made, I'm going to attempt to work with RA to get one made. I want to make an RPG style 1st person/3rd person game where you can play as Drizzt OR his friends..
after the Orking:P. I have every book of his except The Pirate King.;)
Yes I hate Drizzty with a passion.:embarrass
I hate Jar-Jar Jarlaxle
even more. Annoying *** that he is.I quit reading Drizzty
I have every book of his except The Pirate King.;)
Yes I hate Drizzty with a passion.:embarrass
I hate Jar-Jar Jarlaxle
I must say that I am completely dumbfounded by what you're trying to say. Either you're saying that you've read every single book of Drizzt that R.A. has come out with even though you hate him, or you're merely being sarcastic.
The first Forgotten Realms novel I ever read was "The Halfling's Gem". I enjoyed the "Icewind Dale" books, I even enjoyed the "Dark Elf" series. It went downhill after that...
Although I cannot stand those self-indulging monologues between the chapters of all the new books.
Hah, that was the idea too in classic BG 1 and 2. But in the second one you could get all the Companions of the Hall to help you.
Drow are evil,twisted, and full of debauchery, but incestuous? I don't think so.
I don't see why not. Compared to copulation with literal demons just so you can get a little edge over your academy class, hitting on your younger brother is practically tame. She could have meant the whole thing as a joke, but I rather doubt it. It's more likely that Malice knew the apple hadn't fallen far from the tree, so to speak.
Anyway, I do not think a game where you play Drizzt would be that impressive. I am generally neutral on him, and there is such a thing as too much exposure - perhaps you can have a cameo if you feel like it, or having him mentioned somewhere in the background. There are many other stories to be told in FR, and we have heard Drizzts one more than once already - why not someone else?
Actually, that was in the Baldur's Gate computer games. Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and its sequel are console (PS2, and maybe X-Box) games; whereas the PC games are true roleplaying games, the BGDA games are hack n slash, with strong story elements. The two share no similarities other than their primary namesake and locations. Drizzt only appears as a playable character in the BGDA games (as does Artemis in the second), and neither can be found as an NPC in either game. The only way to die was to be cut down or fall off a ledge in certain areas. The two BGDA are fantastic, though they don't get recognized often because of the supreme PC games.
I don't see why not. Compared to copulation with literal demons just so you can get a little edge over your academy class, hitting on your younger brother is practically tame. She could have meant the whole thing as a joke, but I rather doubt it. It's more likely that Malice knew the apple hadn't fallen far from the tree, so to speak.
Anyway, I do not think a game where you play Drizzt would be that impressive. I am generally neutral on him, and there is such a thing as too much exposure - perhaps you can have a cameo if you feel like it, or having him mentioned somewhere in the background. There are many other stories to be told in FR, and we have heard Drizzts one more than once already - why not someone else?
When someone comes up with a character that fires as many imaginations and who is so well-liked and iconic to the realms that literally legions of fans can pick up the game and know what to expect, and be psyched about it, then that game will be made. Until then, if you ask any hundred people who arent haters who is the first character that comes to mind when they think of the Realms, it will likely be Drizzt, if not first then right behind Elminster (Who i do NOT want to see a game about). I actually would love it even more if the game let you play as ALL of the companions in an original adventure, and maybe even some guest stars such as Thibbledorf Pwent and Harkle Harpell. THAT would be sweet.
You aren't. To this day, soldiers still drop bearing faster than the speed of light when a pair of sweater muffins pops out. A few months of celibacy will do that to you.
Plus the average age of an enlisted soldier in the military is like 19. So yeah.
Thing is, the Purple Dragons are a great deal different than the average RW army, in that celibacy isn't really enforced for any length of time. Male Purple Dragons can get as many bedmates as they want, as long as doing so doesn't conflict with their duties and responsibilities (and of course, the women are willing, by desire or paid coin;) ). And it's very easy for the Purple Dragons to find women. Plus, women also serve as Purple Dragons, and as long as their duties aren't ignored, they can go nuts with each other.:D So really, the average Purple Dragon shouldn't be so floored when Pennae (or any woman/shapeshifting male/doppleganger) shows her assets off. It's not like they can't walk a couple blocks to the nearest festhall and see the same thing when they're off-duty. Plus, the Obarskyrs are infamous for their libidos, most noticeably Alusair and Azoun IV. These two found plenty of bedmates, even while on the battlefield, but only when they had the free time and there weren't any pressing demands. They set an example, which is basically: Rut on your own time, not while you're heeding Cormyr's call.
yeah i played that game strictly to play as Drizzt. An even better game with Drizzt playable, though, is the much-ignored but very excellent Demon Stone. You get to fight off an army of trolls beseiging the gates of Mithral hall with the three main characters and Drizzt fighting in three separate battles then uniting to beat down the troll king boss. The rogue in the main cast is a half-drow, and Drizzt gives her some heartwarming encouragement in one cutscene that made me love the character even more.
I never did hear much about Demon Stone, though it seems every gamestore I go to always has a used copy for $10 or less. Surprisingly enough, I never did feel compelled to buy it, simply because it didn't look too impressive. Hey, maybe I'll give it a go next time I'm at Gamestop.
sounds familiar Demonstone epitomize Drizzt as what most believe he was "Hack-Slash"lol it takes about 4 hours to beat because all it was was "hack slash through the level" A little intro spective movie at the end of each level. Hmmmmmmm
Well, I've played worse hack n slash games. Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows immediately leaps to mind. Four characters, each only has three real moves, and it takes two hours to beat. The biggest waste of $18 in my entire life.
And just so this isn't completely off-topic, I actually wouldn't mind a Drizzt game, as long as it does the Realms in general justice. I want solid lore and the ability to explore a great chunk of Faerun. Seriously, everywhere Drizzt has gone, I want to be able to go to, from Menzo to Calimport to the Spirit Soaring. I wouldn't be in it just as a RAS fan, but as a FR fan. Oh, and it would have to have multiple PCs. Slicing and dicing as Drizzt would be nice, but I want to have some variation. Hells, if it wasn't even a Drizzt game but one massive FR game, I would go crazy(crazier) for it.
EDIT: Huzzah! The 200th post!
Well, I've played worse hack n slash games. Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows immediately leaps to mind. Four characters, each only has three real moves, and it takes two hours to beat. The biggest waste of $18 in my entire life.
And just so this isn't completely off-topic, I actually wouldn't mind a Drizzt game, as long as it does the Realms in general justice. I want solid lore and the ability to explore a great chunk of Faerun. Seriously, everywhere Drizzt has gone, I want to be able to go to, from Menzo to Calimport to the Spirit Soaring. I wouldn't be in it just as a RAS fan, but as a FR fan. Oh, and it would have to have multiple PCs. Slicing and dicing as Drizzt would be nice, but I want to have some variation. Hells, if it wasn't even a Drizzt game but one massive FR game, I would go crazy(crazier) for it.
EDIT: Huzzah! The 200th post!
Congratulations here's a
Seriously though I believe the Sqauresoft should make the game. From what they did with the Final Fantasy franchise(which is among the top games every year it comes out) they would make a beast FR Drizzt game
Well, I've played worse hack n slash games. Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows immediately leaps to mind. Four characters, each only has three real moves, and it takes two hours to beat. The biggest waste of $18 in my entire life.
And just so this isn't completely off-topic, I actually wouldn't mind a Drizzt game, as long as it does the Realms in general justice. I want solid lore and the ability to explore a great chunk of Faerun. Seriously, everywhere Drizzt has gone, I want to be able to go to, from Menzo to Calimport to the Spirit Soaring. I wouldn't be in it just as a RAS fan, but as a FR fan. Oh, and it would have to have multiple PCs. Slicing and dicing as Drizzt would be nice, but I want to have some variation. Hells, if it wasn't even a Drizzt game but one massive FR game, I would go crazy(crazier) for it.
EDIT: Huzzah! The 200th post!
I don't think I can play RPG games that force you to play a pregenerated character, I need the character generation process with lots of options. Its my opium.
I prefer games which allow you to generate a character, as well. Must be that grognard PC-gamer reflex ;) .
For an RPG that is truly about role-playing (such as Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale)? I agree 100%. I love creating my characters and breathing life into them myself. For hack n slash games, RPG or not, (along the lines of Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, Champions of Norrath, JRPGs, Dynasty Warriors, and Samurai Warriors)? I can make do with pregenerated characters, especially since in BGDA and BGDA II, the characters have personality, and in the DW and SW series, the characters are historical figures from post-Han China and the Sengoku era of Japan respectively (and the game is based on history, with added VG elements).
Seriously though I believe the Sqauresoft should make the game. From what they did with the Final Fantasy franchise(which is among the top games every year it comes out) they would make a beast FR Drizzt game
-Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II features Drizzt as a playable character for a single level. I found that level the best in the game, and felt the Drizzting (whirling flighting) was very accurate. That one was made by Interplay.
But some characters just have traits that rub people wrong: Drizzt (whiner), Tanis (also a whiner), Legolas (effeminate), Anakin (wuss), Tasslehoff (annoying twerp), ewoks (though I like them), etc.
... but really, it's not his wussy nature. It's the focus of the movies on a badly written/acted sub-plot, as well as his occasional stupidity.
And I think Legolas mostly gets hate as a reaction to the fangirls.
The argument that Drizzt is hated because he's popular isn't valid.
-Sure it is. It's empirically proven that there exist people in the world who dislike things that are deemed mainstream and/or popular. I don't fully understand the mindset, but there you go. I agree it's a stupid reason, but it is a valid one, in terms of that.
If Drizzt ever stars in a movie...well if you think the fanboy's are out now then.....lol
Raistlin was so popular yet unhated because every other character in Dragonlance all had internal issues they were dealing with and Raistlin was the only character who didn't waste time with internal conflicts.
Conan: to barbaric to be hated, more pitied for his slow mindedness.
Wulfgar: Smarter Conan
Hans Solo: Who didn't want to be this guy when the movies came out
Darth Vader: Again see above. Lol
Certainly not an 'emofag'.
That is truly colorful. I like Drizzt compainions more. Meh, to each there own.
-Sure it is. It's empirically proven that there exist people in the world who dislike things that are deemed mainstream and/or popular. I don't fully understand the mindset, but there you go. I agree it's a stupid reason, but it is a valid one, in terms of that.
Except most people who hate Drizzt like at least one thing that is popular. His popularity isn't the reason he's hated, though his popularity is the reason you hear about it so much. If he wasn't popular he wouldn't come up, and the people who hate him wouldn't be so annoyed. I hate Drizzt, but it wouldn't be an issue if some wang didn't show up once in a while with an emo drow ranger who wields two scimitars and has a wonderous figure companion. But this one's different, because his companion is a wolf!
-Sure it is. It's empirically proven that there exist people in the world who dislike things that are deemed mainstream and/or popular. I don't fully understand the mindset, but there you go. I agree it's a stupid reason, but it is a valid one, in terms of that.
Aye, my father and brothers did not like either the '65 Mustang or the '57 Chevy for the sole reason that everyone else liked them. (Yes, I asked them!) If a movie was popular, they'd be sure not to see it, but would be quick to poo-poo it. (Except for "Star Wars" which we got in on opening night!)
That's not to dismiss those who may not like a popular thing for legitimate reasons. Maybe they don't like "dark heroes", or don't care for Salvatore's style. I believe, however, that a majority of those who reject the popular are people who think they have to in order to be seen as different. It's a cry for attention at its base level.
Except most people who hate Drizzt like at least one thing that is popular.
-Which doesn't change the fact that the reason they would dislike Drizzt, specifically, is because he is a popular among whatever fanbase he has. A person can like one thing for one reason, and dislike another thing for the same reason. Or vice-versa.
eh, I'm a Drizzt fan, but I regard him as more of a telescope to view whats happening around him than an actual character, as he doesn't speak enough to be a character in my opinion.
my favorite character is Jarlaxle, cause hey, he is just awesome like that...
I hate to say it but if I didn't come across Drizzt while looking for something else to read(besides Star Trek) then I probably would have never found Tolkien or Dragonlance etc...and to this day I haven't read The Hobbitt lol pathetic isn't it
Conan was never portrayed as "Slow Minded" by REH. The movies on the other hand...
It's not that Anakin is a wuss that bothers people (he's really not a "wuss"). It's that the prequels make a big deal out of the Anakin/Padme romance, and every single scene between the two falls flatter then a pancake. It doesn't help that the whole mess of Anakin falling to the darkside in Episode 3 could have been averted if Anakin had just said "Hey Obi-Wan, I'm worried about someone important to me dying, is there any jedi trick to keeping people alive?" and then Obi-Wan (probably with the wrong idea and a cute little pink heart over his head) would have said "Sure. Just put a few ranks in Heal Other next time you level up." ... but really, it's not his wussy nature. It's the focus of the movies on a badly written/acted sub-plot, as well as his occasional stupidity. And I think Legolas mostly gets hate as a reaction to the fangirls.
The novel adaption of Episode III by Matthew Stover is far, far more satisfying than the movie. Anakin's fall makes a lot more sense, and the novel gives a richer, smarter, and more sophisticated version of the whole story.